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Unread 09-23-2003, 08:12 PM
Mike Martus's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Mike Martus Mike Martus is offline
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Robot/Goal scoring: Official Answer Mike Martus

Question:

When is a robot considered in the "scoring Zone"?

Answer:
The robot is considered in the scoring zone when some part of the robot that is located within the 30 x 33 max size is touching the scoring zone. Such as a wheel for example.

Note: Not just breaking the plane of the zone but touching the zone.

Question:
Can I reach over and touch the zone and be considered "In the zone"?

Answer:
No. Touching the zone must be within the 30 x 33 max size.

Question:
Can I detach a part of my base and leave it in the scoring zone and be considered in the zone?

Answer:
No. You may not detach a part of your robot to gain the scoring zone. Scoring zone touching must be within the 30x33 max size.

Question:
When is the goal considered in the scoring zone?

Answer:
Following the example above the goal (casters) must be touching some part of the zone. Only 1 caster is needed to be touching. Not the base breaking the plane.
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Unread 09-24-2003, 01:53 AM
petrrj petrrj is offline
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Question Scoring zone?

Is this in conflict of:


Part of GR4 "The scoring zone is defined as the space above the middle 12’ x 24’ carpeted zone on the field."

Space above would imply that the robot 30X33 frame or goal assembly just has to be in the "space above" the scoring zone.

Space I think refers to from the scoring zone carpet and above including the air above the scoring zone.

As long as your robot is not touching a ball in your own goal and any part of your goal and robots 30X33 frame is in the "space above" the scoring zone, then it should count. YES?

Maybe a plumb bob should be used by the refs! HeHe...

PETRRJ

Last edited by petrrj : 09-24-2003 at 12:31 PM.
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Unread 09-24-2003, 10:08 PM
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Surface space

The scoring zone is the surface space of the carpeted area: contact must be made with the surface within the taped area or the tape itself. Since the robot can't come up from below the floor (that would damage the facility and violate another rule), the robot will be above the surface and touching the surface both: the rule would read much clearer if we were to strike the word "above" altogether.
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Unread 09-25-2003, 12:08 AM
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Exclamation GR4

Again I must quote GR4.

GR4 For a ball to score inside of a goal, some part of the goal structure must be within the scoring zone of the field. The scoring zone is defined as the space above the middle 12’ x 24’ carpeted zone on the field. This zone will be marked with tape on the floor. It does not matter how a ball gets inside a scoring goal; whether the ball is thrown in by the human player, squeezed in between the side rails (very difficult to do this year), or dropped in by a robot, does not make a difference. Any ball that is more than 50% within the confines of the goal’s cylindrical structure (bounded by the planes formed by the outside of the PVC columns) will count as a score. This means that balls inside the goal structures are considered to be in scoring position if their center is within the imaginary plane formed by the outer surfaces of the goal structure. It does not matter where a robot positions a ball or how it gets possession of the ball; any ball that is above the floor and supported solely by a robot will count as a score if the robot is within the scoring zone. The ball will not count as a score if it is touching any of the field structures. For example, a ball wedged between a robot and the perimeter wall does not score. A ball that is placed into a scoring goal or held by a robot during a match but removed before the end of the match does not count as a score. A robot may not be touching any balls in its own goal at the end of the match. If a robot is touching any balls in either of its own goals at the end of a match, those balls will not be scored.

"Space above" is very clear... If you want to change GR4 to remove the words "space above" and republish then do it...

Then the questions are?


1.0 Does this mean that if the opponents machine in the process of pushing the goals or robot off the field and the match ends, with there robot wedging the goal or robot wheel or wheels off of the "scoring zone" that the points in the goal or robot will not count?

2. If your robot has 2 wheel central drive that rocks between casters in the corner for better traction, and the center of gravity is away from the scoring zone so the casters are over the scoring zone, but are not "touching the carpet", this will not count?

3. Are "wheels" the only thing within the frame of 30X33 that can touch the "scoring zone" for the points to be counted?

4. Are the officials going to use a "feeler gage" to verify that some part of the robots 30X33 area is physically touching the "scoring zone"?

My impression is that the goals at rest , the casters are off the surface of the carpet so the carpet on the bottom of the goal will prevent the goal from rolling freely. So...

5. If the corner of the goal with the caster is over the "space" above the scoring zone but not touching because it is at rest, will those balls count?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Best Regards,

PETRRJ

PS Unlike the 48" to 42" typo "space above" is to many keys to be considered a typo. If you want to keep changing the rules just keep revising them and distributing them!



Last edited by petrrj : 09-25-2003 at 12:14 AM.
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Unread 10-21-2003, 09:42 PM
Dstiebel Dstiebel is offline
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Where's the final answer?

Did anyone answer the previous post? PETRRJ posed some excellent questions. I don't know how accurate the time stamp is, but it seems that this was posted almost a month ago, and no answer has been given.

David
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Unread 10-21-2003, 09:56 PM
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Red face No Reply

Yes indeed it has been almost a month with no reply... We will probably find out this weekend in Holly...

Regards,


PETRRJ
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Unread 10-21-2003, 10:51 PM
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Rules Clarification

Sorry guys, the answers to all rules clarifications were sent out to all teams by e-mail several weeks ago as part of the 10/5/03 revisions; I did not realize until today that these questions had not also gotten answered on this forum. Here are the some of the questions and answers that were contained in that mailing:

Q: When is the goal considered in the scoring zone?
A: The robot is considered in the scoring zone when some part of the robot that is located within the 30 x 33 max size is touching the scoring zone (such as a wheel, for example).
Note: Not just breaking the plane of the zone but touching the zone.

Q: Can I reach over and touch the zone and be considered "In the zone"?
A: No. Touching the zone must be within the 30 x 33 max size.

Q: Can I detach a part of my base and leave it in the scoring zone and be considered in the zone?
A: No. You may not detach a part of your robot to gain the scoring zone. Scoring zone touching must be within the 30x33 max size. Following the example above the goal (casters) must be touching some part of the zone. Only 1 caster is needed to be touching. Not the base breaking the plane.

Q: Does this mean that if the opponent’s machine is in the process of pushing the goals or robot off the field and the match ends with their robot wedging the goal or robot wheel or wheels off of the "scoring zone" that the points in the goal or robot will not count?
A: Yes. The robot or goal must be actually touching the carpet surface.

Q: If your robot has 2 wheel central drive that rocks between casters in the corner for better traction, and the center of gravity is away from the scoring zone so the casters are over the scoring zone, but are not "touching the carpet", this will not count?
A: No.

Q: Are "wheels" the only thing within the frame of 30X33 that can touch the "scoring zone" for the points to be counted?
A: No, any part of the robot that’s below the 30x33 frame will count (For example, even a tie wrap hanging down and touching the carpet would count if it was within the 30x33 frame.

Q: Are the officials going to use a "feeler gage" to verify that some part of the robots 30X33 area is physically touching the "scoring zone"?
A: Yes, they will probably use a sheet of paper to verify that contact has been made.

Q: My impression is that the goals at rest , the casters are off the surface of the carpet so the carpet on the bottom of the goal will prevent the goal from rolling freely. So, if the corner of the goal with the caster is over the "space" above the scoring zone but not touching because it is at rest, will those balls count?
A: If there is no other part of the goal touching the carpet or the tape then the balls in the goal do not count.
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