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View Poll Results: The manual will be cracked in...?
A few Minutes. 10 7.58%
A few hours. 24 18.18%
Never. 41 31.06%
FIRSTers have to high a moral ground and will wait until Saturday (where's the fun in that!!) 57 43.18%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2004, 04:35 PM
D.J. Fluck
 
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swando
eh i would say technically yes, but in reality no. i doubt it would be illegal to crack the manual password, this is more of an intellectual challenge.
All cracking/hacking is an intellectual challenge, but rules are rules, so I'd say yes that is against forum rules.

So just chill out and wait...

Last edited by D.J. Fluck : 01-07-2004 at 04:37 PM.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 04:38 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I plan to use a ouiji board to get my best guess for the manual. Not like I have anything better to do on a Friday night.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 04:52 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

To be honest, I don't really like this poll or this thread.

But... ...I decided not to delete it.

Basically, I think that FIRST has enough technical savy to encrypt the files in a way that is for all intents and purposes unbreakable in time for it to be any use.

In light of that, I decided that it wasn't worth quashing.

But... ...I still don't like a lot of the tone of what's going on here.

I hope that this is not an indication of how things are going to go when we are all reading the rules and figuring out whether this or that strategy is allowed or not.

The term "Gracious Professionalism" is used a lot around here.

It is my hope that beyond spicing up our messages with the word we will all choose to put the ideal into practice at every opportunity in the 2004 Season.

Joe J.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 05:06 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I have no intention of decrypting it prior to saturday afternoon. I think for must of us we're just really anxious to get started so we're dreaming about decrypting the manual which probably won't happen.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 05:10 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Noone is trying to get any special benefits by getting the manual early, its just a challenge. Programmers are pretty much all the same, tell us you're releasing secrets, but noone can look at them, and we'll all want to try. Just like after we do (if we manage to) we probably won't tell anyone. But you can bet we'll gloat!

Noone means FIRST any harm, I'm sure.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 05:23 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Trying to figure out what the game may be from the low cost BOM or the emailed clues is essentially the same thing as trying to decrypt the manual. It's a puzzle, a problem, a challenge. I very seriously doubt anyone involved in this thread has any intent of trying to cheat by reading the rules early. Its just that some of us are simply enticed by the challenge of a good puzzle. Also, anyone with the tools and the knowledge it would take to decrypt the manual would also know that cracking it before 12pm EST 1/10/2004 is about as likely as ... something very unlikely.

-Joel
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Unread 01-07-2004, 06:40 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

How about if it's just for fun you all try to hack the test file? I know you have the password but your the computer hacking into it doesn't so wouldn't that satisfy you all just the same?
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Unread 01-07-2004, 07:16 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Glidden
Trying to figure out what the game may be from the low cost BOM or the emailed clues is essentially the same thing as trying to decrypt the manual. It's a puzzle, a problem, a challenge. I very seriously doubt anyone involved in this thread has any intent of trying to cheat by reading the rules early. Its just that some of us are simply enticed by the challenge of a good puzzle. Also, anyone with the tools and the knowledge it would take to decrypt the manual would also know that cracking it before 12pm EST 1/10/2004 is about as likely as ... something very unlikely.

-Joel

I really have to disagree with this post and a lot of other similar ones.. FIRST was doing something thoughtful releasing this manual early, i remember having to smack my computer last year when it refused to download the manual thanks to a overdose of other FIRSTers downloading it. Lets not turn something 'nice' in something that FIRST would regret. If it was a simple code, not a complex encryption then sure go ahead and take a hack, but because they put such a elaborate encryption in i think its a hint to be patient. Let's just thank them for thinking of us instead of trying to cheat..

sorry if i came off a bit harsh-
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Unread 01-07-2004, 08:20 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I think we all hear believe in fair advantage and i hope that no one cracks it. but if you want to waste yoru time and break Gracious Profesonlism (sorry butchered that) then go ahead but remeber you are lowering respect with others casue FIRST is all about having fun why bother cracking it part of the fun is waiting till saturday
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Unread 01-07-2004, 08:21 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
actually I dont need the manual for the first couple days anyway - our team will spend the first meeting or two analysizing the game, how you score points, to determine what our robot needs to do to score the most points under the worst case conditions

all we need for that is the description of the game, and how to calculate the score at the end.
Thats excatly what the manual contains. Physical limits (field description) and scoring rules. Throw in a few other offlimit things, and you have a game shaped around what FIRST says you can and can't do.

Just watching the kickoff can be misleading. I recall in the past where people said, "but Dean said x durring kickoff!" as justification for something that didn't wasn't in compliance with the rules. The written rules are Law.


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Unread 01-07-2004, 08:29 PM
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Re: The Manual will be cracked in...

I think it would be more fun to try and guess what the password would be, because it seems most likely that it would be something logical, rather than a random string of characters becuse 128 is so secure (I mentioned it to my CS teacher and received a skeptical look and the reply "large prime encryption? you could maybe crack it in a month or so" [and she's been playing with computers for quite a while, but if a month is wrong, cool] ).

I doubt I'll have the time to try out fun phrases (and if I did, I would close the file rather than reading, because cheating is no fun) but it would be fun just to see that creativity is more powerful complex encryption.
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Unread 01-07-2004, 08:50 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I think everyone needs to stop being serious and realize this thread was supposed to be humorous, much like how all of us are taking wild and shot-in-the-dark guesses to the game in other threads...
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Unread 01-07-2004, 09:19 PM
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Re: The Manual will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauluffel
I think it would be more fun to try and guess what the password would be, because it seems most likely that it would be something logical, rather than a random string of characters becuse 128 is so secure (I mentioned it to my CS teacher and received a skeptical look and the reply "large prime encryption? you could maybe crack it in a month or so" [and she's been playing with computers for quite a while, but if a month is wrong, cool] ).

I doubt I'll have the time to try out fun phrases (and if I did, I would close the file rather than reading, because cheating is no fun) but it would be fun just to see that creativity is more powerful complex encryption.
My guess is that the password is this year's game name (like ZoneZeal in 2002, et al.).

Yeah...the encryption they used is really secure. I'm sure they wouldn't use a short password that would be crackable within any conceivable amount of time. I'm positive if they were doing this they'd release it with a password that's going to take a month+ even with a 'supercomputer.'
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Unread 01-07-2004, 09:46 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I did some research, and from it I estimate that it will take 100 P4 @ 2GHz computers about 24hrs to check every possible password for the 128 bit RSA encryption. Two or three graphics people with access to render farms could get enough processing power to break it fast enough, or one could use a small distributed computing project. Hehe, no I don't think any of us are going to... unless...
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Unread 01-07-2004, 10:06 PM
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Question Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I seem to be missing something...Why are we spending so much time and energy for a frivelous *day* (if that) of extra time when we could be working on more important issues such as programming or fundraising?

I see why FIRST has decided upon this solution and it does make sense!
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