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Unread 01-12-2004, 10:26 AM
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hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

can it be done and is it legal

or how about allowing other robots to latch on to you??


thanks

dahl
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Unread 01-12-2004, 10:38 AM
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Please Read The Rules !

PLEASE read the rules.
It is not stated as "illegal" but it won't score any points.

From 4.3.1 - Definitions (emphasis added)
Quote:
HANGING – A ROBOT is considered HANGING from the Pull-Up Bar if it is directly SUPPORTED by the horizontal bar and is not touching the carpet, platforms, or goals.
and from 4.4.1 - Scoring
Quote:
<G03> A ROBOT HANGING from the Pull-Up Bar at the end of a match is worth 50 points.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 10:40 AM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Dahl
can it be done and is it legal

or how about allowing other robots to latch on to you??


thanks

dahl
It can be done, and is legal to do.
BUT, my interpretation is that both robots do not get 50 points, only the one attached to the bar gets the points.

Quote:
SUPPORTED – If the “supporting object” is removed, the ball would not remain SCORED or CAPPED and/or the ROBOT would not remain HANGING.
Quote:
HANGING – A ROBOT is considered HANGING from the Pull-Up Bar if it is directly SUPPORTED by the horizontal bar and is not touching the carpet, platforms, or goals.

Wetzel

Last edited by Wetzel : 01-12-2004 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Clairification
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Unread 01-12-2004, 10:55 AM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetzel
... my intrepretation is that both robots do not get 50 points.
I don't understand why you would say that ... I would think that the robot attached to the bar would still get the 50 points, as long as it is not "supported" (see your quoted definition) by the other bot.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 10:56 AM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Bloom
I don't understand why you would say that ... I would think that the robot attached to the bar would still get the 50 points, as long as it is not "supported" (see your quoted definition) by the other bot.
Sorry, I'll clairify. Both do not get 50 points, only the one that is attached to the bar.

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Unread 01-12-2004, 01:18 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

If robot1 is hanging off robot2, then all of robot1's weight is still directly supported from the bar. The bar is holding all 260 lbs. We took that rule as to say that was allowed, and believe that it is.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 01:50 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Take the rules as they are stated, if it says you can get points by hanging off the horizontal bar, it means you can only get points by hanging off the horizontal bar.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 02:29 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

The wording says "hanging from the horizontal bar". Is the other robot a horizontal bar? I don't think so....
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Unread 01-12-2004, 03:26 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

I guess this is where differences of interpretation come in and FIRST probably needs to clarify. Most of the people that mentioned anything about this rule would interpret a robot hanging from another which is hanging from the bar as not scoring points. But I would definetly agree with nic_radford. At first reading of this rule it seems obvious (to me) that a robot hanging off a robot which is supported by the bar is also supported by the bar- a transitivity of sorts.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 04:39 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrm
I guess this is where differences of interpretation come in and FIRST probably needs to clarify. Most of the people that mentioned anything about this rule would interpret a robot hanging from another which is hanging from the bar as not scoring points. But I would definetly agree with nic_radford. At first reading of this rule it seems obvious (to me) that a robot hanging off a robot which is supported by the bar is also supported by the bar- a transitivity of sorts.
I see one rule that applies to hanging, <G03>. Are there any others?

Here is my interpretation based on that rule.

Quote:
<G03>
a ROBOT HANGING from the Pull-Up Bar at the end of the match is worth 50 points
since both ROBOT and HANGING are capitalized, they are defined. I won't waste my time with the definition of ROBOT, but the defenition of HANGING is as follows

Quote:
a ROBOT is considered HANGING from the Pull-Up Bar if it is directly SUPPORTED by the horizontal bar and is not touching the carpet, platforms or goals
Now of course, that depends on the definition of SUPPORTED which is as follows.

Quote:
If the "supporting" object is removed, the ball would not remain SCORED or CAPPED and/or the ROBOT would not remain HANGING
Now, by that defenition, a robot HANGING by another robot is SUPPORTED both by the first robot and also the bar. However, it is only directly SUPPORTED by that robot, and so does not meet the definition of HANGING and does not score 50 points.

However, I'm am open to the fact that there may be another place in the manual that casts some doubt, can you point me to it?
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Unread 01-12-2004, 04:42 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

And now I come in with the basic game rules. Any object attached to a robot is considered to be an extension of the robot. Applied to rule <G21>
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Unread 01-12-2004, 04:50 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
And now I come in with the basic game rules. Any object attached to a robot is considered to be an extension of the robot. Applied to rule <G21>
Not true
Quote:
<G21> While a ROBOT is holding a LARGE Ball, that ball will be considered an extension of the ROBOT.
Also keep in mind that this situation will probably not happen, and when it does it probably will be a judges call, so its best to be avoided. Also you dont want to intentionally damage another robot by hanging on it, or you will be DQed.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 04:52 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery
Not true


Also keep in mind that this situation will probably not happen, and when it does it probably will be a judges call, so its best to be avoided. Also you dont want to intentionally damage another robot by hanging on it, or you will be DQed.
In other words SAFETY/COMMON SENSE rule
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Unread 01-12-2004, 05:50 PM
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Lightbulb Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

This reminds me of something that we did last year in houston, which I believe was mentioned in another post. We managed to climb completely on top of another robot on top of the ramp. Since the other robot was only touching the top of the ramp and we were only touching them, we counted as being on top of the ramp. I know it isn't exactly the same, and I don't know if FIRST changed the wording of the rules to close this loophole, but based on this, both bots would score 50pts.
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Unread 01-12-2004, 06:07 PM
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Re: hanging off off other robots that are hanging off the horiz bar

Right but with safety and common sense, hanging is extremely dangerous then alone having robots hanging off each other!
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