OCCRA
Go to Post Count up all the white space in your code sometime and calculate how much weight it adds. - ChuckDickerson [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Programming
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 06:35 PM
Jeff Zampieron Jeff Zampieron is offline
Registered User
#0073 (Visioneers)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4
Jeff Zampieron is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Jeff Zampieron
Relay Aliases Backwards

Has anyone else noticed that the relay aliases for fwd and rev seem to be
backwards?

By backwards I mean, I was setting relay3_fwd to 1 and relay3_rev to 0
and the light on the spike was red.

I fixed it by swapping the defs in ifi_aliases.h

Thoughts? or did IFI just goof?
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 06:53 PM
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

forwards and reverse are separate bits, because you can also turn the relay off
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 08:21 PM
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I thought it was my problem - that somebody else has it makes me think it's not. IFI might have goofed, you never know...
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 09:20 PM
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

That might explain why our solenoids weren't working saturday night, and they worked on sunday morning when mentor put black to M+ and red to M-
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 10:04 PM
hay4man hay4man is offline
Registered User
#0057 (Leopards)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14
hay4man is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to hay4man
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

Well...who knows how many times we have hooked our compressor up "backwards" then. The pneumatics manual gave a warning about not putting reverse voltages through the compressor, but i have not seen any problems (the PSI steadily increases, regardless).
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-15-2004, 11:44 PM
The Lucas's Avatar
The Lucas The Lucas is offline
Don't Get EliMOEnated!
AKA: My First Name is really "The" (or Brian)
FRC #0365 (The Miracle Workerz); FRC#1495 (AGR); FRC#4342 (Demon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dela-Where?
Posts: 1,520
The Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to The Lucas
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

I have had the same problem. However, I dont believe the aliases are wrong but rather the LEDs are incorrect. Red now means the M+ is at 12v (M- gnd) and Green means M- is at 12V (M+ gnd). I say this beacause I am using a single solenoid which is spring return, so I only power M+, which the red wire of the solenoid is hooked up to. I simply toggle that relay's fwd bit to operate the solenoid and it works. I would not go changing the polarity of your compressor because reverse polarity could seriously damage it.
__________________

Electrical & Programming Mentor ---Team #365 "The Miracle Workerz"
Founding Mentor --- Team #1495 Avon Grove High School
2007 CMP Chairman's Award - Thanks to all MOE members (and others) past and present who made it a reality.
Robot Inspector
"I don't think I'm ever more ''aware'' than I am right after I burn my thumb with a soldering iron"
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-16-2004, 07:34 AM
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

the solonoids are not polarity sensitive - if current flows through the two wires they will trip

and I would be really surprized if the compressor cares which way it runs - the motor makes the piston go up and down - I dont think it cares if it goes down and up instead.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-16-2004, 10:10 PM
The Lucas's Avatar
The Lucas The Lucas is offline
Don't Get EliMOEnated!
AKA: My First Name is really "The" (or Brian)
FRC #0365 (The Miracle Workerz); FRC#1495 (AGR); FRC#4342 (Demon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dela-Where?
Posts: 1,520
The Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to The Lucas
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
the solonoids are not polarity sensitive - if current flows through the two wires they will trip

and I would be really surprized if the compressor cares which way it runs - the motor makes the piston go up and down - I dont think it cares if it goes down and up instead.
I believe the single solenoid was connected to an external ground not on the spike (as we generally do for all our double or single solenoids, but I did not wire it personally). I will have to take a good look at the program, wires, and pneumatics to figure it out.

Quote from the 2004 Pneumatics Manual:
"Ensure that the relay is programmed to provide “forward” power only to the
compressor. Do not reverse the compressor!"
__________________

Electrical & Programming Mentor ---Team #365 "The Miracle Workerz"
Founding Mentor --- Team #1495 Avon Grove High School
2007 CMP Chairman's Award - Thanks to all MOE members (and others) past and present who made it a reality.
Robot Inspector
"I don't think I'm ever more ''aware'' than I am right after I burn my thumb with a soldering iron"

Last edited by The Lucas : 02-16-2004 at 10:13 PM.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-17-2004, 12:48 PM
Jeff McCune's Avatar
Jeff McCune Jeff McCune is offline
Alpha Geek
#0677 (The Wirestrippers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Ohio State University
Posts: 67
Jeff McCune is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Jeff McCune Send a message via AIM to Jeff McCune
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucas
I have had the same problem. However, I dont believe the aliases are wrong but rather the LEDs are incorrect. Red now means the M+ is at 12v (M- gnd) and Green means M- is at 12V (M+ gnd). I say this beacause I am using a single solenoid which is spring return, so I only power M+, which the red wire of the solenoid is hooked up to. I simply toggle that relay's fwd bit to operate the solenoid and it works. I would not go changing the polarity of your compressor because reverse polarity could seriously damage it.
I haven't hooked up a multimeter to the relays yet, but I'm almost 100% postive you're incorrect about this. If this were true, it would imply that the robot controller not only tells the relay what polarity to set itself to, but what color to light the LED to. This would require 4 bits of information to represent, and we're attaching the relay to the controller with 2 signal wires. I seriously dobt they implemented a serial communication protocol between the controller and relay.

The claim you made holds some incredibly serious implications... You might want to back such claims up in the future, because even though I'm sure you're wrong, I'm going to have to test this myself because it's not worth blowing out components a week before ship.
__________________
Team 677 - The Wirestrippers - Columbus School for Girls and The Ohio State University
EMAIL: mccune@ling.ohio-state.edu

...And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be...
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-17-2004, 01:37 PM
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

I tested the relays with the multimeter - when I set relay1_fwd to 1, the spike turns red and the multimeter reads -12v. When relay1_rev is 1, it's green and the multimeter reads 12v. This seems backwards to me...
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-17-2004, 03:20 PM
deltacoder1020's Avatar
deltacoder1020 deltacoder1020 is offline
Computer Guy
AKA: Dav
#1020 (The Indiana Prank Monkeys)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Muncie, Indiana
Posts: 340
deltacoder1020 has a spectacular aura aboutdeltacoder1020 has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to deltacoder1020
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

next question: do you have the power to the relay connected correctly, and also the control cable.
__________________
Team 1020, the Indiana Prank Monkeys (www.team1020.org)
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-17-2004, 05:31 PM
The Lucas's Avatar
The Lucas The Lucas is offline
Don't Get EliMOEnated!
AKA: My First Name is really "The" (or Brian)
FRC #0365 (The Miracle Workerz); FRC#1495 (AGR); FRC#4342 (Demon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dela-Where?
Posts: 1,520
The Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to The Lucas
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by steven114
I tested the relays with the multimeter - when I set relay1_fwd to 1, the spike turns red and the multimeter reads -12v. When relay1_rev is 1, it's green and the multimeter reads 12v. This seems backwards to me...
I also checked a relay with a multimeter today (as I said I would last night) and came the to the same conclusion as steven114. With relay5_fwd set to 1 (relay5_rev = 0 and LED was red), the multimeter common probe on the M- of the spike connected to relay output 5, and the multimeter voltage postive probe connected to M+, the multimeter read -12V. The relay output cable was connected correctly. I also checked the same spike with the common probe on ground. I read 12v on the M- and 0v on the M+. It seems that the IFI aliases are incorrect.

I was wrong about this and my sincere apology to anyone I may have confused. My knowledge of the matter was based on a false assumption. The single solenoid I was basing this on was wired to the M- of the Spike. It was the only one of our 5 solenoids (2 double, 3 single) wired without an external ground (it has been rewired now).

I have rewritten ifi_aliases.h to change the aliases from fwd to rev and visa versa. I loaded the modified program into my bot and confirmed that relay 5 (my compresser) was getting +12V. A zip file with my new ifi_aliases.h file is attached to this post. Hope it helps. I am posting from MOE HQ workshop (not my dorm as usual) so I have get back to work now. Once again I'm sorry.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ifi_aliases.zip (2.6 KB, 24 views)
__________________

Electrical & Programming Mentor ---Team #365 "The Miracle Workerz"
Founding Mentor --- Team #1495 Avon Grove High School
2007 CMP Chairman's Award - Thanks to all MOE members (and others) past and present who made it a reality.
Robot Inspector
"I don't think I'm ever more ''aware'' than I am right after I burn my thumb with a soldering iron"
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-17-2004, 07:47 PM
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

So if our compressor was working right before this, do we dare correct the problem and reverse the polarity?
__________________
Suddenly being rejected from college feels right during the build season. Now I am a mentor.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-18-2004, 12:00 AM
steven114 steven114 is offline
Programming Wizard and Team Captain
AKA: Steven Schlansker
FRC #0114 (Eaglestrike)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Altos, CA
Posts: 335
steven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the roughsteven114 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via AIM to steven114
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

You should be running the compressor forward - it probably was not working right, or something like that.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-18-2004, 12:43 AM
blindguyinanorg's Avatar
blindguyinanorg blindguyinanorg is offline
Matt Spencer
AKA: Sexy Beast
#1007 (Team Generals)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Snellville GA
Posts: 93
blindguyinanorg has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Send a message via AIM to blindguyinanorg
Re: Relay Aliases Backwards

are all your spikes backwords or just one? you might have the relay out ribon on backwords
__________________
"No drugs, not even alcohol cause the fundementa ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of your troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, freed and love of power" - PJ O'Rourke
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
relay and pwm outputs nick_champ_2 Electrical 1 01-31-2003 12:08 PM
Wiring the relay for the pnumatics Placebo OCCRA 3 11-05-2002 10:04 PM
Spike Relay Input nwagers Electrical 3 07-16-2002 09:23 PM
NEED HELP with Delay loop for compressor relay switch archiver 2001 10 06-24-2002 01:11 AM
Relay Outputs OddOne Technical Discussion 3 02-01-2002 06:52 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi