OCCRA
Go to Post if we can't rely on experience and the human mind from time to time, then we're in trouble, aren't we? - Adam McLeod [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Moderated Discussion
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:19 PM
Don Wright's Avatar
Don Wright Don Wright is offline
Registered User
FRC #0469
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 681
Don Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Don Wright Send a message via Yahoo to Don Wright
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
look at the video MikeDubreuil posted in his text on page two. Team 56 had a tendency to wheelie up when they accelerated, and they drove across the playfield into the SIDE of 45 (who had a 2X ball up in the air) - the contact was above what I defined as the bumber zone, and 45 was toppled (taken out)

with my new refinement of the rules 56 would be DQ because the result of their 'ramming' and contact above the bumper zone caused 45 to topple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
im not saying the match action was illegal - many matches played out this way and no penalites were asessed
Which is it...it's illegal from your new rules resulting a DQ, or it isn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
look around the forum and you will see that many people this year were disapointed with the level of agressive play this year, and could not understand why no penalites were called, anywhere - for tipping or for damage inflicted?
I agree with Jon...you can't say that. Just because a few people on this board are complaining about it...even if it were a 100, that's a very small percentage of the thousands of people in FIRST. I have talked with many people and a lot of people have described how exciting it is to watch and loved that way the games were played this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
thats what this thread is about - clearly teams had different expectations this year going into the games as to what would be allowed and what would be called foul
Personally, I'm beginning to think there are two groups of people...people with common sense that understand what FIRST is trying to do with the rules, and people who don't. I wonder if some people at the beginning of the season read "no aggressive behavior" and thought, "Cool...robot contact is going to be at a minimum..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
personally if you asked me after the kickoff if driving across the field and ramming a bot and knocking it over like that was allowable, I would have said -no way - they would be DQ'd for being that agressive
If you design a robot that can be tipped over just by someone ramming into you...that's your fault. You seem to view this through rose colored glasses and I'm having real trouble grasping what kind of competition you are going for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
esp when a bot is not even near the goal
ok - I was wrong - apparently this type of no-holds-barred action is not only allowed its encouraged? is this what we want? to be on ESPN?
Sure...why not be on ESPN? What better way to spread the interest of FIRST that to get on national television and show the kids not interested in boring robotics how exciting it can be... And who is saying FIRST is encouraging it? Just because it isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's promoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
if thats what the majority of teams want then ok, make it clear - get rid of rules that are not called at any event anywhere, stop leading people to believe there is some sort of good sportmanship happening on the playfield. Lets stop pretending that tipping, ramming, bashing is discouraged - cause apparently the crowd loves it and thats what they want to see
They aren't being called, because people aren't doing it. There are no chain saws cutting up robots. I never once saw a robot bash another robot over and over again just to do it. What is good sportsmanship to you? Stand back and see how well you can get scored on? Or putting up a good fight? I would much rather win over a tough opponent doing everything they can to stop me than one standing back letting me do whatever I want. Try to push me over. Try to stop me from scoring. Bring it. And when you can't stop me, the win will feel even better. And if you do, I'll be back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
and lets play battlebots - lets play RollerBall

no penaties, no disqualifications, and no subsitutions. the last bot not toppled wins (thats how it turned out this year)

how far were we from that this year in the finals, seriously?

If thats what everyone wants, I'll go along with it - but at least tell us at the kickoff meeting so we dont feel like idiots when we show up at our first regional and watch our 6 weeks of hard work get battered, smashed and toppled repeatedly.
Again with the exaggerations... How you can compare Battlebots to FIRST is beyond me. I almost wonder if you ever saw it. But, maybe you are just bitter about something...
__________________
Donald F. Wright Jr.
Product Manager
AVL Instrumentation & Test Systems, Inc.
  #62   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:21 PM
ngreen's Avatar
ngreen ngreen is offline
Robohyo
AKA: nelson green; robohyo
None #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Atlanta via Paola, KS
Posts: 791
ngreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant future
Send a message via MSN to ngreen
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWittlief
I agree that in most games and events GP and good sportsmanship reigned and teams did their best to respect the opponents machines and skills



why do you think that, from a perspective of fairness?

if my team is getting wild and bashes into your bot, either knocking it over or disabling it, your team has done nothing wrong

but now you cant play for the rest of the match

while my team continues to play, and benefit from our actions since it is now 2 against 1 on the field

most likely, my team will win. If we are not DQ'd why wouldnt my team keep driving like that?

and if its the last match of the finals, what do I care about yellow cards?!

I'm saying overly harsh based on current rules. This is what we are discussing right? It is hard to judge intent. You can't quantify it that tipping or damaged robot wasn't built poorly so that it was partial at fault.
I'm only suggestion to leave it subjective but give the refs better tools to work with.

The yellow cards would allow for teams to not do the same thing in consecutive matches. You might get away with tipping or overly aggressive actions in one match of final but now you could do it all two or three. And you only get 2 dq before you get dqed from the game. And don't forget finals rule, a dq for a team in elims is a dq for that alliance. I think the cards would suffice.
__________________
Nelson Green (Panther Robotics 1108)
Chemical Engineering 2007, K-State
Grad School: Georgia Tech (for PhD)

2007 GKC KCP&BE Award
2006 Wisc Chairman's Award & Website
2005 Purdue Chairman's Award & Galileo Finalist
2004 LSR Chairman's Award & Xerox Creativity
2003 LSR Champ,Quality & Team Spirit + Nat All-Star
  #63   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:30 PM
MrToast's Avatar
MrToast MrToast is offline
I named Greg Needel's cat!
AKA: Dave DeLong
no team (Rhode Warriors)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: RI, now UT
Posts: 326
MrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to MrToast
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Just some clarification and examples:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToast
Definition of inoperable: Tipped or destroyed in such a way that the robot can not complete the rest of the match. However, if the robot is tipped and manages to get back up, the card issued to the offensive robot shall be recalled with a green card.
Example: In one of the Archimdedes semi-finals, Team 571 (Paragon)'s big ball grabber was broken. So, if it was caused by abuse by another robot, then that robot would be shut off and disqualified, because 571's pincer was inoperable. If Paragon broke it themselves, well, then sucks to be them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToast
Definition of damage: destruction (either intentionally or not) of any rigid (non-pliable) component (so something like a styrofoam bumper would be excluded) to the point where that component is inoperable.
Example: In our last semi-final match (Archimedes), one of our cooling fans was destroyed (unintentionally) by 494. The fan littered the field. So this would represent (most likely) a yellow card for 494.

However, this brings up the point of teams purposely building shoddy robots just to get their opponents dq'ed. This would be up to the inspectors to notice and prevent. (Prevent from competing until the robot is more robust)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToast
However, bending of a component, like an aluminum arm or whatever, would not be deemed as a card-worthy action, because it *may* not represent a total inoperability of said component.
Example: In our first quarter-final match (oh, that was an intense match ), our hook was quite badly twisted. This happened because our robot, who was hanging, was pushed by another robot attempting to mount the platform. This is not card worthy, because our hook still functioned. (We were still hanging)

MrToast
__________________
(#121, 2004) Archimedes semi-finalists with 237 and 386! I had an awesome time guys, and thanks for the hat!
(#121, 2004) BC5 semi-finalists with 190 and 1027! Awesome time! We went further than I thought we could! Thanks for all your help w/ our transmission!
(#121, 2005) Galileo quarter-finalists with 47 and 203! Thanks for all your support through the stress!
------------------------------
If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40
------------------------------
"It'll all work out in the end, and if it doesn't, it's not the end." - Jeff Bullock
  #64   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:31 PM
kmcclary's Avatar
kmcclary kmcclary is offline
Founder 830/1015;Mentor 66/470/1502
FRC #0470 (Alpha Omega Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1994
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 489
kmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond reputekmcclary has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

I like the idea of a card system.

I also like the CONCEPT of a Penalty Box, where a machine is disabled for a FEW seconds as a penalty for a Yellow Card warning. However, I feel a 7-10 second penalty would be more than enough to "warn" and punish them, vs a 15 second penalty.

BTW, in any case IMHO the arena control system should have a Disabled Light at each player station, at the shelf level. Maybe have a big yellow bulb attached off of the back of the mini Kill Button Box, or a countdown display there, showing the operators how many seconds remain in your Penalty. No one thinks to notice that the light above their heads is out while they're furious shaking their controls wondering what's wrong with their robot. It needs to be between eye and waist level.

- Keith
__________________
Keith McClary - Organizer/Mentor/Sponsor - Ann Arbor MI area FIRST teams
ACTI - Automation Computer Technologies, Inc. (Sponsoring FIRST teams since 2001!)
MI Robot Club (Trainer) / GO-Tech Maker's Club / RepRap-Michigan) / SEMI CNC Club
"Certifiably Insane": Started FIVE FRC teams & many robot clubs (so far)!
2002: 830 "Rat Pack" | 2003-5;14: 1015;1076 "Pi Hi Samurai" | 2005-6: 1549 "Washtenuts"/"Fire Traxx"
2005-(on): 1502 "Technical Difficulties" | 2006-(on): FIRST Volunteer!
2009-(on): 470 "Alpha Omega" | WAFL | Sponsor & "Floating Engineer" for MI Dist 13 (Washtenaw Cnty)
2011: 3638 "Tigertrons" | 2013-(on): 4395 "ViBots" | 2014-(on) 66 "Grizzlies"
"Home" Teams: 66, 470, 1076, 1502, 4395
Local FIRST alumni at or coming to Ann Arbor (UM/EMU/WCC/Cleary)?
...We Want YOU as a Mentor! Please email me for info!
Support CDF Reputation - If a posting helped, thank 'em with rep points!
"It must be FRC build season when your spouse and children become 'Action Items 8 & 9'..."
  #65   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:44 PM
Anne Shade Anne Shade is offline
Moving on to bigger/better things?
AKA: Formely Anne Bergeron
no team (Chesapeake Regional)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 253
Anne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond reputeAnne Shade has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Anne Shade
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

I really like the yellow/red card idea. The big problem with these kinds of aggressiveness calls is that in a lot of cases it almost impossible for the refs to tell the actual intent of the drivers. If a robot tips another, did they actually mean to tip them or were they just trying to move them out of the way? With a defensive move a robot is broken, was it the intent to break the other or was that just a bad design? Refs can't be deciding whether or not damage was the fault of another team or whether or not it was a design issue. Refs already have so much that they have to be keeping track of on the field, we do have to keep in mind that they are only human.

With the yellow/red card idea, this gives the refs a chance to warn teams that a certain action will not be accepted by a team. That also gives the team a chance to change what they are doing. As a coach, I know how intense it can get up on stage and yeh sometimes we may make a bad call without really realizing it. Having a warning system in place that tells the team to not try that again or you will be DQ'ed I think is the way to go.
__________________
Anne Shade
Past Teams: 132, 408, 608, 832, 1002, and 2377
  #66   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 12:51 PM
MikeDubreuil's Avatar
MikeDubreuil MikeDubreuil is offline
Carpe diem
FRC #0125 (Nu-Trons)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 967
MikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond reputeMikeDubreuil has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to MikeDubreuil
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

I like like the combination yellow red card approach. I also like the time based penalty a little better. (not just because it was my idea)

For instance, in the match that started this whole mess 93 vs 469, I think it would have been adventagous to issue a 10 second penalty to 469.

My problem with the yellow card: in order for the yellow card to come out a questionable act has already occured.
__________________
"FIRST is like bling bling for the brain." - Woodie Flowers
  #67   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:02 PM
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000vfr800
Which is it...it's illegal from your new rules resulting a DQ, or it isn't?
...
I tried to explain that Im not questioning the results of the match in the video (not saying the results should be reversed)

Im saying that match results would be different with the rules I proposed on page one

the match was NOT illegal as it was played and called according to the official rules because the driver was only thinking good thoughts when he drove across the field at full speed and rammed the bot knocking it over

if he had been thinking bad thoughts, "Im gonna drive across the field at full speed and knock that bot over" then he would have been DQ's - and somehow the refs could tell the difference

?!

Im getting zinged with negative rep points for my opinions in this thread, thats why I tried to explain the difference between the way the game was played/called this year, and the way I would LIKE to have seen it played/called

I guess my opinion is unacceptable?

Quote:
Personally, I'm beginning to think there are two groups of people...people with common sense that understand what FIRST is trying to do with the rules, and people who don't...
I must be one of those people you referred to with no common sense, because I thought teams would play rough up to the point where bots start getting knocked over, or disabled by damage, and the refs would call a few DQs to discourage it at that level.

guess not

Last edited by KenWittlief : 04-21-2004 at 01:07 PM.
  #68   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:05 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
VEX Robotics Engineer
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,113
JVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil
My problem with the yellow card: in order for the yellow card to come out a questionable act has already occured.
Yet somehow your system is preemptive?

I'm missing your point.
__________________
In the interest of full disclosure: I work for VEX Robotics a subsidiary of Innovation First International (IFI).
  #69   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:09 PM
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

the yellow card will look cool next to the agressive teams champion trophy, thats the point
  #70   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:18 PM
Don Wright's Avatar
Don Wright Don Wright is offline
Registered User
FRC #0469
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 681
Don Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond reputeDon Wright has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Don Wright Send a message via Yahoo to Don Wright
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
and I must be one of those people you referred to with no common sense, because I thought teams would play rough up to the point where bots start getting knocked over, or disabled by damage, and the refs would call a few DQs to discourage it at that level.
My comments are nothing personal to you, but it just seems to me that you are striving for a system that is calling for very strict interaction guidlines. Not only do I think this would be very hard to enforce, but would lead to a lot of second guessing of refs by the field teams and arguements about whether opposing robots should have been dq'd/not dq'd. Both of these things would take a lot out of the excitment and fun factor we had this year.

Can you give me examples where robots went past the point where robots get knocked over? Most of tipping situations I saw as soon as the robot started tipping, the other backed off, but the robot tipped anyway.

I just think a lot of what has been discussed and expressed in this thread is unrealistic, exaggerated, and if some of the rules are implimented, will take a lot of the fun out of the game. I mean, how much fun will it be if:

a) the kids are afraid to push another robot because if they tip, they are dq'd.
b) they push other robots, causing them to tip, getting them dq'd. We'll have dq's all over the place.
__________________
Donald F. Wright Jr.
Product Manager
AVL Instrumentation & Test Systems, Inc.
  #71   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:23 PM
MrToast's Avatar
MrToast MrToast is offline
I named Greg Needel's cat!
AKA: Dave DeLong
no team (Rhode Warriors)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: RI, now UT
Posts: 326
MrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to MrToast
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000vfr800
a) the kids are afraid to push another robot because if they tip, they are dq'd.
b) they push other robots, causing them to tip, getting them dq'd. We'll have dq's all over the place.
That's what the yellow cards would be for. Either those or a few seconds shut down.

MrToast, once again enjoying the [COLOR] tag WAY too much
__________________
(#121, 2004) Archimedes semi-finalists with 237 and 386! I had an awesome time guys, and thanks for the hat!
(#121, 2004) BC5 semi-finalists with 190 and 1027! Awesome time! We went further than I thought we could! Thanks for all your help w/ our transmission!
(#121, 2005) Galileo quarter-finalists with 47 and 203! Thanks for all your support through the stress!
------------------------------
If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40
------------------------------
"It'll all work out in the end, and if it doesn't, it's not the end." - Jeff Bullock
  #72   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:25 PM
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
.
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,213
KenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond reputeKenWittlief has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000vfr800
Can you give me examples where robots went past the point where robots get knocked over? ...I just think a lot of what has been discussed and expressed in this thread is unrealistic, exaggerated, ...
go look at this poll thread - 25% so far are people who watched matches where they thought things got out of hand and penalties should have been called, and they werent

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&page=1&pp=15
  #73   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:29 PM
Joel Glidden's Avatar
Joel Glidden Joel Glidden is offline
My heart pumps diesel.
FRC #4293 (Komodo)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 207
Joel Glidden is a glorious beacon of lightJoel Glidden is a glorious beacon of lightJoel Glidden is a glorious beacon of lightJoel Glidden is a glorious beacon of lightJoel Glidden is a glorious beacon of light
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

You know what? I'm going to design a really great new autonomous passenger aircraft. I've also found a way to reduce weight and increase passenger capacity by removing redundant structural elements. Due to fuel savings, increased passenger capacity, and reduced personnel requirements, air travel costs will be drastically reduced!

But ...
Clouds, flocks of birds, solar flares, and weather related electrical disturbances will cause the plane to crash, and certain atmospheric density variations or wind effects will critically compromise the air frame.

So ...
I'm writing up a proposal to disallow the environmental phenomena listed above.





Doesn't work in engineering, and it shouldn't work in FIRST.
__________________
-Joel
  #74   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:32 PM
MrToast's Avatar
MrToast MrToast is offline
I named Greg Needel's cat!
AKA: Dave DeLong
no team (Rhode Warriors)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: RI, now UT
Posts: 326
MrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud ofMrToast has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to MrToast
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Glidden
You know what? I'm going to design a really great new autonomous passenger aircraft. I've also found a way to reduce weight and increase passenger capacity by removing redundant structural elements. Due to fuel savings, increased passenger capacity, and reduced personnel requirements, air travel costs will be drastically reduced!

But ...
Clouds, flocks of birds, solar flares, and weather related electrical disturbances will cause the plane to crash, and certain atmospheric density variations or wind effects will critically compromise the air frame.

So ...
I'm writing up a proposal to disallow the environmental phenomena listed above.
That's not right at all!

Robot problems that might result in a dq result from other robots, not the carpeting of the arena.

Good try, though.
__________________
(#121, 2004) Archimedes semi-finalists with 237 and 386! I had an awesome time guys, and thanks for the hat!
(#121, 2004) BC5 semi-finalists with 190 and 1027! Awesome time! We went further than I thought we could! Thanks for all your help w/ our transmission!
(#121, 2005) Galileo quarter-finalists with 47 and 203! Thanks for all your support through the stress!
------------------------------
If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40
------------------------------
"It'll all work out in the end, and if it doesn't, it's not the end." - Jeff Bullock
  #75   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-21-2004, 01:39 PM
AmyPrib's Avatar
AmyPrib AmyPrib is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 688
AmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond reputeAmyPrib has a reputation beyond repute
Re: You write <G34> and <G35>

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000vfr800
..strict interaction guidlines. Not only do I think this would be very hard to enforce, but would lead to a lot of second guessing of refs by the field teams and arguements about whether opposing robots should have been dq'd/not dq'd. Both of these things would take a lot out of the excitment and fun factor we had this year.

I just think a lot of what has been discussed and expressed in this thread is unrealistic, exaggerated, and if some of the rules are implimented, will take a lot of the fun out of the game. I mean, how much fun will it be if:

a) the kids are afraid to push another robot because if they tip, they are dq'd.
b) they push other robots, causing them to tip, getting them dq'd. We'll have dq's all over the place.
I think these are extremely valid points. At the beginning of this game introduction, I thought people would be afraid to try and cap opponents goals for fear of goaltending... Annnnnd we didn't really see very much capping of the opponent goal because all they had to do was throw a ball at the obstacle (while in your grip) to get a goaltending call - plus it was more effective to play a good offense anyways.

What about automode? What happens if they run into each other and one flips over or gets rammed? How do you penalize or DQ someone for that? Or maybe we'll just add another rule that says... if tipped during automode, no penalties incur...Or maybe make up some crazy detailed rule for it.. Or maybe we get rid of automode, or maybe we say... robot can only move 1ft/s during automode....

Now, if we create a rule that says "if you're totally legal pushing action results in tipping your opponent", then why do we have any incentive to play any kind of defense, or even build a good offensive robot? We've already determined that obvious ramming and "intentional" damage is illegal. But we start putting these detailed guidelines on "what is legal defense", we might as well put a big black wall in the center of the field so that there will be no robot interaction. There will be no need for a competition. These drivers will be so worried about going anywhere near another robot. Like said before, if your robot cannot withstand some pushing and shoving in any way, you've probably got some things to look at and re-design. Otherwise, we better start building robots that can hold hands and hum together.
__________________

Co-Chair Boilermaker Regional Planning Committee 2004-2011
2008 St. Louis Regional Finalists and Engineering Inspiration Award
2007 St. Louis Regional Champions - Thanks 1444 & 829! / St. Louis and Boilermaker Quality Award
2006 Boilermaker Chairman's Award
Referee - IRI - 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
2005 Midwest Regional - Semifinalist, Engineering Inspiration Award, and Safety Award / Boilermaker Regional - Judges Award
2004 Midwest Regional Champions - Thanks 269 and 930! / IRI Runner-Up - Thanks to 234 and 447!!!
2004 Championship: Archimedes Finalist - Thanks 716 and 1272!
"We are going to be praised and criticized more than we deserve. We are not to be affected by either." ~ co-worker

Last edited by AmyPrib : 04-21-2004 at 02:01 PM.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:15 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi