Go to Post But should we "discriminate" based on how long your team has been around? If you think about it, FIRST's goal is to inspire students, right? ...But students on rookie and second-year teams, if anything, are in greater need of being inspired. - LauraN [more]
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Unread 05-31-2004, 07:26 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

What would the difference be in paying in installments before you compete and paying at one time? You still need to colect the funds. I have noticed also that when people haven't paid there is a tendancy to back out if no money is going to be lost.
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Unread 05-31-2004, 07:43 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Ah, the never ending quagmire, if you don't raise the prices, none will be able to partcipate, but raise the prices and mabey a few can't. I'd rather have a FIRST to participate in, and mabey not have a team that year, but not have a FIRST and be able to pay upfront what it would have cost to get in.

There's two ways for FIRST to stop the hikes or reduce the payments:

-Get more corporate sponsors
-Reduce the kit of parts & strip down the regionals
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Unread 05-31-2004, 07:48 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephM
-Get more corporate sponsors
-Reduce the kit of parts & strip down the regionals

Neither, IMHO, should happen. It's the lesser of two evils here.
What's wrong with more corporate sponsors??? Isn't that they way most if not all teams stay in the game?
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Unread 05-31-2004, 08:24 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peciv
What's wrong with more corporate sponsors??? Isn't that they way most if not all teams stay in the game?
Whooops! That was a brain fart. Let me correct that statement....
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Unread 05-31-2004, 08:43 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Let me remind or show you all the list of 1997 competitions, maybe it will enlighten you all a little more why the prices were raised...



Yup thats right 3 regionals and 1 championship event. Since then we are at almost 30 regionals and still the single championship event, but on a MUCH LARGER scale... If each regional costed $150,000 to run thats $4.5 million to have the 30 regionals. With say 1000 teams competing at 1 regional (not counting multiple regionals attended) at $4000 each, so a total of $4 million to spend to hold the regionals. Now this also does not cover all the other fees that are spent on the venues, crew, shipping and misc fees, so at best right now, FIRST is about breaking even for the regionals. Also i am not counting the amount it costs for each field and for the kits and innovation first equiptment. Maybe we should all stop complaining that FIRST raised the costs only $1000 for enitial registeration and $1000 for the championship event and start thanking them for all they have done and that they only raised prices 2 grand this year and if i average that over the 5 years it will be since the last raise, that is $400/year, which in my eyes is amazing that it is so small...

I hope this lets some more of you in on why the fees were raised, and oh yeah i forgot to say 95% of the crew you see at events are volunteers and not paid staff, i know this year alone as a volunteer i spent the same if not more then my team spent on our robot...


(Please dont take this as an insult or a bash to anyone, i just wanted to let some of you in more on the basic fees of holding competitions...)
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Unread 05-31-2004, 09:05 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

This was my thread from April of 2003.

Will first ever raise or lower the entrance fee?

The poll results were as follows:


Yes I think they will raise it in the near future 11 36.67%
Yes I think they will lower it in the near future 2 6.67%
No I think it will stay the same for some time 17 56.67%
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Unread 05-31-2004, 09:09 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
I'm slightly offended by the posters that are accusing people of not being motivated if they can't raise the extra $1000. I'm quite certain that there are teams out there that are working incredibly hard as it is to secure their current level of funding. It's especially hard for teams in rural areas to get funding as there aren't businesses nearby or a large population base to draw on. And despite some improvement, the economy still isn't in the greatest shape, and corporations are still running with tight budgets. So, I think that the price increase will definitely cause problems for rookie teams and teams that are already strapped for cash. Any arguments about teams simply not trying hard enough ignore the real issues that these teams face and that this increase causes.
::standing ovation from all of us on 350::

I completely agree with Kevin. You can not say that those of us who cant get another 1000 arent motivated. Every team in FIRST wants to compete as much as any other team involved. Teams like mine, who are in very rural areas have very few businesses around willing to donate money. I cant think of a major cooperate sponsor within our district (one that has money engineers and such). We barely made the $5000 last year and that was collected over a period of 3 years. And we only scrapped up about $800 more for building our bot.

It's not a matter of motivation, its location.

I understand that the price increase is necessary, I'm supportive of FIRST and their decision, it means 2005 will be even better than 2004.
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:05 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

I know that I have stated this before BUT, The registration moneys do NOT go to the regionals. There is a small amount to help prop up regionals that have not made the amount needed. I believe that I saw a figure of $800,000.00 for this but I could be wrong. The regionals are suppose to support themselves. When you talk of a stripped down regional that is because the regional committee was unable to raise the full amount for a full blown regional. Even then some regionals could not cover expenses. It is understood that a new regional could take 2 - 3 years to break even but then they should be self sufficient.

The real question might be, If the regional can't find enough funds, should it then be cancelled?
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:25 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Steve is right, of course, the majority of regional fees go towards supporting FIRST corporate, buying kits, etc. In fact, I think more and more money is going into buying kits and putting more stuff in the kits. Which raises another question.... Why are we having to pay so much for kits? I know they have all kinds of interesting and useful stuff in them, and they're incredibly cool... but frankly, I know my team has no use for a large portion of the kit every year. If we're allowed to buy whatever we want from MSC, etc., why can't they start cutting down on the size of the kit and let us spend money on just the stuff we want and will use? Surely that would be more cost effective. Just my thoughts...
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:30 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Here's another twist to the discussion...

What are YOU willing to pay to stay involved in FIRST Robotics? What if the $2000 came out of the pockets of the team members and not from corporate sponsors? If you've got 40 members (students AND mentors) that would amount to $50 per person. How many of you would be willing to forego a movie or dinner out every once a month to save the $50 per YEAR to stay involved in FIRST. In the tradition of Jessica Boucher, that's $4.17 per month, or $.96 per week or $.14 per day. $.14 PER DAY!! I toss at least that much change into my change jar every day!

With 3 kids, 1 wife, two cars, a mortgage, miscellaneous other bills too numerous to mention and a single income, I would still find a way to save the $50 so my students could still participate in FIRST. I believe so strongly in what FIRST has to offer my students that I am willing to dig into my OWN very shallow pockets to help pay the way.

Am I suggesting that every team should personally absorb this additional cost? Of course not. But when push comes to shove, you've got to do what you've got to do. Sometimes corporate sponsorship and fundraising help to ease costs. But if it's crunch time and you don't have the funds are any of you seriously going to drop involvement in FIRST for $.14 a day?

Not me.

Just my .14 cents!

Sean
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:30 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Sorry for posting so often. One thing I forgot was that a lot of the items in the kit are donated or purchased at a VERY low rate. That is why we get so much for so little. Sponsers want us to see and use their products. That is why they donate product more than cash. Why sponser teams that turn around and use a competitors product?
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:34 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W
The real question might be, If the regional can't find enough funds, should it then be cancelled?
FIRST stresses that their program mimics the real world. If something can't support itself, it can't exist in the real world. My opinion is definely that if a regional dosen't support itself, it should be ended.
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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:47 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Students from our school were hesitating to pay the $20 CDN entry fee to join our robotics team. Even further, from what I have heard, sponsors have left vetran teams to sponsor regionals and rookie teams.

For regionals that can't support itself, it would have to depend on how many teams attend that regional. If that regional is at or near full capacity, and yet it is not sustainable, it should NOT be cancelled. But if the regional is at or less than half capacity and have shown little interest in teams for two concecutive years, it should be cancelled and hopefully be moved to a different location with more interested teams.

There's one question, should there be a cap of how much money one team can recieve from their sponsors? And if sponsors are willing to give more money, should the money over the cap be given to FIRST and be evenly spread across to regionals and/or other FIRST expenses?

[Addition] The reason for FIRST is to inspire students from all over to Science, Technology, Engineering, etc. And with this, FIRST is not like the real world where the most important thing is to make and not loose money. This is why regionals should not be cancelled because FIRST is loosing money over the lack of sponsors the regional can find. Regionals do help in the proccess to inspire students. [/Addition]

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Unread 05-31-2004, 10:57 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinkel Y.
There's one question, should there be a cap of how much money one team can recieve from their sponsors? And if sponsors are willing to give more money, should the money over the cap be given to FIRST and be evenly spread across to regionals and/or other FIRST expenses?

Yikes! Not to put too fine a point on it but that sounds a bit like FIRST Robotics welfare. Or salary caps!

Not that I'm opposed to sharing the wealth, however, if a team works hard to get significant sponsorship shouldn't that money be theirs? I would like to think that teams are gracious enough to help other teams out but, based on this thread, money IS an issue. I imagine most teams are a bit reluctant to part with theirs.

Additionally, team expenses are based heavily on travel. I can't imagine that my team's travel expenses are as great as, say, the Brazilian team or teams from Hawaii or the Pacific Northwest.

This is definitely a subject to be dealt with delicately but also in a head-on manner. It is what it is and we need to adjust.

Sean
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Unread 05-31-2004, 11:07 PM
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Re: FIRST Competition Entry Fee Increases for 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Schuff

Am I suggesting that every team should personally absorb this additional cost? Of course not. But when push comes to shove, you've got to do what you've got to do. Sometimes corporate sponsorship and fundraising help to ease costs. But if it's crunch time and you don't have the funds are any of you seriously going to drop involvement in FIRST for $.14 a day?

Just my .14 cents!

Sean
this also doesn't sound like a bad idea as well. Take whatever unused change you have that day and put it in a jar. Total it up eventually and subtract from the amount needed and you could have a new amount that could be sponsor friendly.

or

everyone puts in 10$ at the end of the week $10 x 10 persons - 50 persons is about $100 - $500 a week. for the large scale of members suchs as TJ2 / CD / Tigertrons and a few others $10 from each member weekly will all in itself make up the fee.

for the smaller scaled teams $5 a week multiplied by the team members (coaches included - as if they don't do enough for us alumni and students as it is) could add up the cost.

if u COULD do this yr round you could very well keep the team afloat till it gets a sponsor(s).

Once again not saying you should or saying that everyone has a job but when u look at it every dollar counts and it all depends on ure devotion and willingness to help keep FIRST and your team afloat and above the rising waters.
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