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#16
01-19-2005, 10:14 AM
 dlavery Curmudgeon FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta) Join Date: Jun 2001 Rookie Year: 1996 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 3,176
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jgannon Conceptually, it's not that difficult. Get them both operational (with a little help from Kevin), and mount them on opposite corners of the front your robot. You know the width of your robot (likely 28"), and you can get the two angles from the values of the pan servos. You have angle-side-angle, and there's only one solution to the triangle. Now you know how far away you are. Pivot until the two base angles are congruent, and charge forward until you're the proper distance from the vision tetra. Use the same theory with the yellow triangle to the goal. It's very doable, and I'd love to pull it off. I can't think of a more incredible nerd feat attainable at this age than to meet Dave Lavery's personal challenge.
Actually, conceptually it is not that simple. Remember, the challenge is to come up with a real stereo correlation solution, not a simple geometric one. The biggest problem is that there are multiple vision tetras out on the field. You have to compute the true correlation between the camera images to determine if both cameras are looking at the same target. Only then can you back-solve the geometry.

If I am going to give away six dozens tasty treats without allowing any for myself, I have to make sure that the challenge is really worth it! C'mon, are you all going to leave Kevin as the only contender?

-dave
__________________
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor, "you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' - and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
- Stuart Vasepuru, 2006 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest

My OTHER CAR is still on Mars!!!

Last edited by dlavery : 01-19-2005 at 10:17 AM.
#17
01-19-2005, 12:39 PM
 Nitroxextreme Relation to Mrs. Steve AKA: Jon FRC #1626 (Falcon Robotics ; 190 (Gompei and The Herd)) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Jan 2005 Rookie Year: 2005 Location: Bedminster, NJ Posts: 276
Re: Wiring two cameras

Ummmmmmmmmmm....
I like Donuts

if i cant get some more funds maybe i can convince our programmer to do it
....He likes donuts too
__________________

"He needed a chuck norris lesson in FIRST"...."I will give him a round house kick to the face...with gracious professionalism"
#18
01-19-2005, 02:41 PM
 jgannon I ᐸ3 Robots AKA: Joey Gannon no team Join Date: Feb 2004 Rookie Year: 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,476
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery Actually, conceptually it is not that simple. Remember, the challenge is to come up with a real stereo correlation solution, not a simple geometric one. The biggest problem is that there are multiple vision tetras out on the field. You have to compute the true correlation between the camera images to determine if both cameras are looking at the same target. Only then can you back-solve the geometry. If I am going to give away six dozens tasty treats without allowing any for myself, I have to make sure that the challenge is really worth it! C'mon, are you all going to leave Kevin as the only contender? -dave
I think it's doable, with enough if statements. But, once again, my inspiration is not limited by lack of programming prowess, or lack of time, but rather lack of resources. Pity we don't have a mob boss *coughbeattycough* doing our fundraising, or I'd be all over this. Enjoy the donuts, Kevin.
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_
#19
01-19-2005, 02:49 PM
 Kevin Watson La Caņada High School FRC #2429 Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Jan 2002 Rookie Year: 2001 Location: La Caņada, California Posts: 1,334
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery C'mon, are you all going to leave Kevin as the only contender?
Dave,

Well, I've hit a snag. After an all-night Mountain Dew and pizza-fueled programming session, I've got 19 robot controllers setup as a pipelined stereo vision processor running the 27,000 lines of MER stereo vision code that I ported to PIC C18. I have an additional 53 robot controllers running a pipelined version of the MER "GESTALT" local path planner. Everything seems to run pretty well, but my EX18-12 battery completely discharges in only 5 seconds. I asked the crack FIRST engineering staff to make an exception to rule <R46> and allow me to add the additional three batteries I need, but they wouldn't budge. I then asked if I could use a flux capacitor for power, but that didn't go over too well, either (they did say I could use it for decorative purposes, though). Anyway, can I get some partial credit for the effort? I'd be pretty happy with just two dozen.

-Kevin
__________________
Kevin Watson
Engineer at Velodyne LiDAR
http://kevin.org
#20
01-19-2005, 02:53 PM
 ttedrow Herding electrons AKA: Tim Tedrow FRC #0281 (EnTech) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Jan 2002 Rookie Year: 2000 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 165
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kevin Watson Dave, I then asked if I could use a flux capacitor for power, but that didn't go over too well, -Kevin
If you use the flux capacitor your robot will still have to drive 88mph.
__________________
Sr. Design Engineer
Caterpillar Inc.
Greenville, SC

KD4EGM

FRC 281 Greenvillains
Infected with the FIRST virus in 2000

Yes, Chute Door!!!
#21
01-20-2005, 01:39 AM
 Joe Ross Registered User FRC #0330 (Beachbots) Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Jun 2001 Rookie Year: 1997 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 8,661
Re: Wiring two cameras

Dave, is IFI giving you a kickback? For \$40 out of your own pocket you get multiple teams buying \$200 cameras from IFI. That's not to mention the 60+ robot controllers that Kevin bought
#22
01-20-2005, 02:18 AM
 NoodleKnight 24 Hours of LeMons? FRC #0100 (WHS&CHS Robotics) Team Role: Alumni Join Date: Aug 2004 Rookie Year: 2003 Location: Davis, CA Posts: 320
Re: Wiring two cameras

I thought the flux capacitor let you travel through time, it was the plutonium that gave that 1.21 giga-watts of power (then came Mr. Fusion, which kinda makes me wonder, where did all that extra plutonium go anyways? If it never left the car, then when the train killed the delorean, wouldn't there be a big problem?).</offtopic>

Kevin, what about a wall outlet (with an adapter, of course)? 500ft extention cord? =D
__________________
WHS/CHS Robotics - Team 100 (2003-2006):
2006- Delphi's Driving Tommorow's Technology @ Davis | Imagery Award @ SVR | 2004- SVR Finalists (w/ 691 and 1280)| 2003- Delphi's Driving Tommorow's Technology @ Sac

Last edited by NoodleKnight : 01-20-2005 at 02:38 AM. Reason: fix my spelling
#23
01-20-2005, 06:49 AM
 Al Skierkiewicz Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005 FRC #0111 (WildStang) Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Jun 2001 Rookie Year: 1996 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 10,737
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kevin Watson Dave, I then asked if I could use a flux capacitor for power, but that didn't go over too well, either (they did say I could use it for decorative purposes, though). Anyway, can I get some partial credit for the effort? I'd be pretty happy with just two dozen. -Kevin
Kevin,
The flux capacitor should have been allowed under the flowchart as long as it met the single component maximum cost. I did check with Digikey and they no longer carry the line. Apparently there is a world wide shortage of material now that we are approaching a sunspot minimum. The plutonium is another problem as it does not pass the hazardous material test and the Mr. Fusion would not either for the smell of the garbage you put in. (Inspection list "Do you have anything that smells bad or can damage the carpet?") However, you could charge it up by having all the competition attendees hold hands and shuffle across the carpet. (I am not volunteering for the last person in the line, I am going to be busy that day!) See, only simple solutions, I don't drink Dew so my head is clear.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
#24
01-20-2005, 07:24 AM
 Mike Betts Electrical Engineer no team Team Role: Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Rookie Year: 1995 Location: Homosassa, FL Posts: 1,442
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by NoodleKnight I thought the flux capacitor let you travel through time, it was the plutonium that gave that 1.21 giga-watts of power...
I believe the unit of measure was jiga-watts vice giga-watts...
__________________
Mike Betts

Alumnus, Team 3518, Panthrobots, 2011
Alumnus, Team 177, Bobcat Robotics, 1995 - 2010
LRI, Connecticut Regional, 2007-2010
LRI, WPI Regional, 2009 - 2010
RI, South Florida Regional, 2012 - 2013

As easy as 355/113...
#25
01-20-2005, 08:00 AM
 patTeam241 College Student AKA: Pat Cleary no team Join Date: Jan 2004 Rookie Year: 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 54
Re: Wiring two cameras

Instead of coming up with a complex stereocamera system, could you come up with a somewhat mechanical one. If memory serves me correct, you can set up the CMUcams to drive servos to center a color on the screen. If you then read the rotation with a potentiometer, couldn't you just triangulate the distance?
#26
01-20-2005, 09:18 AM
 jgannon I ᐸ3 Robots AKA: Joey Gannon no team Join Date: Feb 2004 Rookie Year: 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,476
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by patTeam241 Instead of coming up with a complex stereocamera system, could you come up with a somewhat mechanical one. If memory serves me correct, you can set up the CMUcams to drive servos to center a color on the screen. If you then read the rotation with a potentiometer, couldn't you just triangulate the distance?
You don't even need potentiometers... you can just read the values of the pan servos. If you scroll up a ways, I talked about how you could triangulate it, and then Dave explained why it's not quite that simple.
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_
#27
01-20-2005, 10:47 AM
 dlavery Curmudgeon FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta) Join Date: Jun 2001 Rookie Year: 1996 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 3,176
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by patTeam241 Instead of coming up with a complex stereocamera system, could you come up with a somewhat mechanical one. If memory serves me correct, you can set up the CMUcams to drive servos to center a color on the screen. If you then read the rotation with a potentiometer, couldn't you just triangulate the distance?
Thus we come to the nut of the problem. That would work if you could guarantee that only one object of the target color could ever be in the field of view of the cameras. But since there may be up to four vision tetras visible from any location, plus the potential for background items of the same color to be detected, you will need to deteremine the true correlation of the objects in the image to determine if the cameras are looking at the same target object.

-dave
__________________
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor, "you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' - and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
- Stuart Vasepuru, 2006 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest

My OTHER CAR is still on Mars!!!
#28
01-23-2005, 04:57 PM
 Karma Registered User AKA: Daniel Takamori FRC #0955 (Raiderbot) Team Role: Electrical Join Date: Oct 2004 Rookie Year: 2004 Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Posts: 11
Re: Wiring two cameras

So in the Team Update 3, it said we could use another vision camera on our robot. Does that include any other types of cameras, such as USB? Some teams will be using Co-Processors, and thus have the capabilities to use more than two cameras, is this use even allowed? Thanks for all your help, and 955 will be the ones who win the donuts.
#29
01-23-2005, 05:44 PM
 Mike AA Programmer and Mentor AKA: Mike Aalderink FRC #3458 (Code Blue) Team Role: Programmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Rookie Year: 1999 Location: Holland, Mi Posts: 698
Re: Wiring two cameras

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery To the first team that successfully enables two CMUcamIIs on their robot and uses the PIC microprocessor in the IFI robot controller to compute the stereo correlation from the two camera images to determine range to the designated target, within the time limits of the autonomous period, I will personally award six dozen Krispy Kreme donuts. Yes, it is physically and electrically possible to connect multiple CMUcams to the RC. But once you do, what are you going to do with the data? -dave (OK, now that I have said this, just watch someone like Kevin Watson have a working solution by this Friday... )

And yet after... 3 days of trying I still havent gotten one camera to control anything but the servo on the camera board . Back to re-reading for a 20th time.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by dlavery Actually, conceptually it is not that simple. Remember, the challenge is to come up with a real stereo correlation solution, not a simple geometric one. The biggest problem is that there are multiple vision tetras out on the field. You have to compute the true correlation between the camera images to determine if both cameras are looking at the same target. Only then can you back-solve the geometry. If I am going to give away six dozens tasty treats without allowing any for myself, I have to make sure that the challenge is really worth it! C'mon, are you all going to leave Kevin as the only contender? -dave

I think I know how to get two involved and finding the correct tetra between the cameras but again I need to get it working with one first.

-Mike

Last edited by Mike AA : 01-23-2005 at 05:49 PM.
#30
01-24-2005, 10:51 PM
 kham K. Ham FRC #2819 Team Role: Mechanical Join Date: Jan 2005 Rookie Year: 2002 Location: Upper Marlboro, MD Posts: 4
Re: Wiring two cameras

Two cameras? Jeez, we're still trying to figure out how to implement one camera...

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