Go to Post I can't claim to be an expert in the stess analysis field - I just play one on TV, er CD, er - okay, so call me a poser! - petek [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > FRC Game Design
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 09:40 AM
Natchez Natchez is offline
Registered User
#0118 (Robonauts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 189
Natchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond repute
TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Warning: You have entered an it's-so-crazy-that-it-might-just-work zone.

The year is 2006, the day is January 7th, and the hour is 12 noon. After months of anticipation, Dean, Woody, & Dave are on stage ready to announce the '06 FIRST Challenge. Dean starts by saying, "Ladies & Gentlemen, it has come to my attention that you have not been doing your homework. And we ALL know that when you do not do your homework there must be consequences. Here are the consequences.

Consequence #1: (The curtain drops) Welcome to TIPLE REPLAY!"

You instantly think that you must have fallen into a time machine and gone back 364 days; it looks like last year's game. Dean continues, "Woodie & Dave, would you please explain this year's game." Woodie takes charge, "Sure Dean! This year the game pieces are tetras and the teams will try ..." Dave then feels the urge to take over, "Woodie, Woodie, Woodie, we are running out of time, let me try to explain the game. Ladies & Gentlemen, Triple Replay is the same as last year's game with a few modifications. Now Woodie, wasn't that easy." Woodie with a puzzled look, "Sure Dave but don't we need to explain the changes." Dave, "You're right Woodie. Here are the changes. Capping the pink vision tetra in the 25 second autonomous mode is worth ONE TETRA IN-HAND AT THE END OF THE MATCH FOR THE HUMAN PLAYERS TO PLACE ANYWHERE THEY WOULD LIKE. Since the stacks are so high, they will be putting this special tetra next to the goal to indicate the goal to be capped. The next change is that there will be not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, but 8 robots on the field at a time." Woodie chimes in, "Sorry Dave, we are out of time. Everyone will have to read the rules to discover the other changes. Dean, back to you."

Dean is excited, "Wow, I never thought replaying a game could be so exciting. We ARE really trying to help you with your homework but I don't think just giving you the same game will help that much so there must be other consequences. Buckle your seatbelts, here we go

Consequence #2: Teams that have been in FIRST for more than 1 year, i.e. competed in '04, can not start building this year's robot until January 30th UNLESS they start a new team and give their '05 robot and '06 kit to the new team; in this case, they may start building their robot as soon as the '05 robot & '06 kit is given to the new team and the coach of the new team calls FIRST telling us that they have your kit and robot in hand and will be competing. We will ship you another kit as soon as this happens. The new team CAN use your old robot in the competition if they desire. Another way to get your build season sooner is to give your '05 robot to a rookie team and your build season will be moved to January 23rd. Likewise with new teams, rookies can use robots that were given to them by another team.

2nd year teams, i.e. rookies in '05, may start building their robots immediately but can not use their '05 robots in the competition. We do not feel that they have been around long enough to understand my homework.

Finally, we are so gracious that these new teams will only cost $3,000 each and payment is due BY THE VETERAN TEAM by June 1, 2005. In addition, rookie teams will be given a $3,000 credit (assuming the entry is $6,000 again) to use toward their 2nd year entry fee. There are only 333 extra kits so you better start recruiting.

Consequence #3: 2+ year teams (competed in '04) must ship their robot on February 21st and put down THEIR tools on February 24, 2005 BUT may pick up ROOKIE tools at any time. Rookies and 1 year teams will be able to keep their robot until the competition.

Veterans, before you fill up Dave's, Woodie's, and my inboxes, please remember that you have quoted my words, "Life is not fair," to the rookies many times to explain why they will not do as well in the competition. Well, I say to you, Life is not fair.

Consequence #4:" ... (EDITORIAL NOTE ... I have a few more consequences but do not want to bore you with the details ... you probably get the gist by now)

Yes, it's crazy but it might work to dramatically increase the number of students exposed to engineering. To avoid a record-length post, I'll post the pros and cons that I've thought of in another post.

You will not be the first one to call me crazy,
Lucien
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 09:42 AM
Natchez Natchez is offline
Registered User
#0118 (Robonauts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 189
Natchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Pros
  • More students are exposed to engineering
  • More teams in FIRST ... closer to "filling the stadium"
  • Another chance to solve the vision challenge
  • More time for teams to mentor during the build season
  • Rookie teams have a head start on paying for next year's registration fee
  • Game Designers get a year off ... kinda
  • Field elements are already built
  • FIRST has time to concentrate on other things like VIMS & kit parts
  • It lets us play the best game (x 10) in FIRST's history
  • FIRST makes lots of money to do other things
Cons
  • Regionals will be packed with teams and excitement
  • We have to play a similar game
  • We have to do our homework
  • FIRST has to have 300+ kits in inventory

What pros & cons can you think of?,
Lucien
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 09:46 AM
angelofsumthin angelofsumthin is offline
One of those daisy men...
AKA: the one they call 'angel'
None #0341 (Miss Daisy)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 28
angelofsumthin will become famous soon enough
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

i am utterly confused....
__________________
[center]"Only Real Men Wear Daisys"

DAISY
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 09:51 AM
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
#BuildBlitz #TeamCopioli
no team (TeamCopioli)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,277
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Lucien,

I am sending the paddy wagon ... make that 3 paddy wagons to your house right now.

And I thought you were crazy before that post.

-Paul
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Erin Rapacki's Avatar
Erin Rapacki Erin Rapacki is offline
General Manager
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 898
Erin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond reputeErin Rapacki has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Erin Rapacki
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Woah, that's so crazy it just might work!
__________________
http://www.linkedin.com/in/erapacki
BUZZ 175 (01, 02) - NUTRONS 125 (03, 04) - QUEEN 1975 (06)
Beantown Blitz Founder (04) - FIRST Robotics Conferences (04) - Boston Regional Volunteer Coordinator (06)
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 10:32 AM
Natchez Natchez is offline
Registered User
#0118 (Robonauts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 189
Natchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond reputeNatchez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli
Lucien,

I am sending the paddy wagon ... make that 3 paddy wagons to your house right now.

And I thought you were crazy before that post.

-Paul
Everyone,

Don't listen to Paul. He knows that they are going to do Triple Replay because Woodie told him at the opening ceremonies on Friday. He is just trying to divert attention by calling me crazy.

Paul, CONGRATULATIONS on the WF Award ... it was sooooooo well deserved.

;sdjfao;iu;lk34890723523= NO, NO, NO 02o3ioh;asdfn.,weop9p78 DON'T DRAG ME AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD - I'M ON CD skl;daypoiyhqq;webncvxkjhaq DON'T TAKE ME AWAY 290837h;sda9p8oyhllusdyjklhqlwery

I'm sorry, I have to go now. It seems that 217 nicely cushioned wagons are outside of my home "waiting to take me away." It must have been that Reader's Digest contest that I entered. Wonder what other prizes I won.

Okay, I'm coming ... just let me hit SUBMIT REPLY please,
Lucien
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 10:34 AM
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,216
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natchez

Consequence #2: Teams that have been in FIRST for more than 1 year, i.e. competed in '04, can not start building this year's robot until January 30th
No consequence here. That's what we did THIS year Of course we spent a lot of time prototyping and designing before then. Actually our drop down "ramps" were the hardest part. Getting them down was easy it was getting them back up that gave us fits.

Doing it over again should prove to be much less of a challenge. Maybe we'll have to design a new gearbox or something to make it interesting. Paul did such a good job with the kit box tranny we didn't bother.

ChrisH
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 10:45 AM
IMDWalrus's Avatar
IMDWalrus IMDWalrus is offline
This is a line...
AKA: Paul
FRC #0818 (Genesis '02)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 617
IMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to beholdIMDWalrus is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to IMDWalrus
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

I hope with all of my being that Dave doesn't see this thread.

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of Dean's homework, though? We've all heard the "can't lead a horse to water" proverb, and it seems like this is what would result. I can see teams going out and doing whatever it takes to get to their robot and kit as quickly as possible.

The eight robots on the field would just be chaos; something tells me that would make the game almost impossible to strategize for or to play. We had enough issues with three, after all.

I DO love the autonomous idea, though. Considering how impossibly difficult to work with the CMU Cams were - and I know this firsthand - having a much bigger reward for the few teams that could accomplish the feat is more than fair. Of course, having another year of time to learn how to use the cam and to work on autonomous ideas would change that dramatically, but who knows how it would work out?

I think you're crazy too, but that's not always a bad thing...
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 11:32 AM
Woodie Flowers Award
Ken Patton Ken Patton is offline
purple
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 340
Ken Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Con: There will be much less inspiration.

Students will have ready access to the solutions to the problem - all they need to do is look at 67, 233, 111, 71, 217/229, 997 and they will know what some great solutions are. Their brains won't hurt cause they didn't need to use them. There will be no transition from "this is impossible!" in week1 to "I know five ways to do this and four of them are easy" in week6. They will miss out on the magic of creating something from nothing.

You could keep the same acronym, but to me, For Information and Replication of Science and Technology just doesn't cut it.

I hope they keep you locked up Lucien Maybe just a couple minutes a day to allow you to throw in a new YMTC now and then.....

I was lucky to meet a couple of your teammates in Atlanta, but was not lucky enough to meet you - I hope to some day.

Ken
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 11:34 AM
the_short1's Avatar
the_short1 the_short1 is offline
Head of Electronics
AKA: Kevin F.
FRC #1596 (Twin Saults International Instigators)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: CANADA
Posts: 252
the_short1 is a name known to allthe_short1 is a name known to allthe_short1 is a name known to allthe_short1 is a name known to allthe_short1 is a name known to allthe_short1 is a name known to all
Send a message via MSN to the_short1
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

o.. dont you worry.. next years game will be with cubes.. .. circle (balls) last year.. triangles (tetras) this year.. square (cubes) next year

look at their logo guys!
__________________
2005 GLR: 12th/58 Seed, Aliance: 1596, 910, 1447 (Semi Finalists) Website, Rookie All Star, Highest Rookie Seed, and 2 Peer Awards, my BIG thank you thread, PLEASE READ
2005 GTR: 11th/66 Seed, Aliance: 703, 1596, 1680 (Semi Finalists) Highest Rookie Seed & 1 Peer Awards
2005 Championship (Galileo): 36th/86 Seed Highest Galileo Match Score: 123:7 Thanks 447 and 121
2006 Website (Totally Revamped):Instigators1596.com
2006 GLR: 31st/61 Seed, Aliance: 835, 1213, 1596 (Quarter Finalists) Spirit & 3 peer awards, THX!
2006 Waterloo: 7th/31 Seed, Aliance: 1219, 1596, 912 (Semi Finalists) Spirit & 2 peer awards, THX!
2006 Waterloo: Aliance: 1596, 1680, 1114 Higest Match Score: (Q22) 128|32
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 11:48 AM
Jay5780 Jay5780 is offline
Registered User
no team (Aztechs)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 172
Jay5780 will become famous soon enoughJay5780 will become famous soon enough
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_short1
o.. dont you worry.. next years game will be with cubes.. .. circle (balls) last year.. triangles (tetras) this year.. square (cubes) next year

look at their logo guys!
they did bins 3 years ago... remember.
__________________
Jay
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 12:08 PM
UCGL_Guy's Avatar
UCGL_Guy UCGL_Guy is offline
Registered User
AKA: Ken YorK
None #0476 (Wildcats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Ponca City OK
Posts: 150
UCGL_Guy is a name known to allUCGL_Guy is a name known to allUCGL_Guy is a name known to allUCGL_Guy is a name known to allUCGL_Guy is a name known to allUCGL_Guy is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to UCGL_Guy
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

I LIKE - I LIKE IT A LOT ---
Tweak the game just enough to make it different yet the same. Time to work with the camera to maybe figure out how to use it.
As a now 7th year rookie team I like the rookie extra time - I know we can sure use it.
Change a player surface or the location of the endzone - aka the bin game.

I've known Lucien was crazy for years - but who isn't who mentors a FIRST team.

Lucien congrats on your honarble mention --- you guys derserve it immensely.
__________________
Ken York
Mentor/Coach Team 476 Ponca City OK

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.
Will Rogers
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 01:31 PM
Kyle's Avatar
Kyle Kyle is offline
Mike Wade, RIP You will be missed
AKA: Kyle Rice
FRC #0365 (MOE)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Posts: 1,388
Kyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond reputeKyle has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kyle
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

I think it would be a great idea, if someone would show me where teams can tap more money out of to start other teams and still keep theres running. A lot of areas rural and city alike have been taped by so many FIRST teams or even just one team that getting additional funding could be a nightmare. I do the the replay a little bit to it would add a whole new element to making a competitive robot.

I think this would be a great game idea for an off season competition with the pink tetra and the 25 second auto mode though.
__________________
2007 Championship Chairmans!!!!! 8 years in the making GO MOE!


Facebook
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 01:51 PM
Kris Verdeyen's Avatar
Kris Verdeyen Kris Verdeyen is offline
LSR Emcee/Alamo Game Announcer
FRC #0118 (Robonauts)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 667
Kris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Patton
Con: There will be much less inspiration.

Students will have ready access to the solutions to the problem - all they need to do is look at 67, 233, 111, 71, 217/229, 997 and they will know what some great solutions are. Their brains won't hurt cause they didn't need to use them. There will be no transition from "this is impossible!" in week1 to "I know five ways to do this and four of them are easy" in week6. They will miss out on the magic of creating something from nothing.
Really, though, don't we already have something like this? Every year we see imitations of the most successful drivetrains, and every year we see the teams that created those successes pushing the envelope even further. Look at AndyMark and the kitbot. Are the teams that didn't have to come up with their own solution as to how to drive around any less inspired? We can't have it both ways - either better robots lead to better inspiration, or they don't.

Anyway, I think that the idea that the game is the same isn't really central to the whole concept. (The person who's concept it is might disagree.) Imagine being a rookie team next year, and showing up on day 1 with a working drivetrain and arm. You can see up close how someone else screwed up, and how to fix it. A rookie team starts with a year of hardware under their belt, and the help of a more experienced team to move them along. Allowing them to use whatever parts of their mentor team's robot they want to salvage gives them the chance to be competitive, or at least the chance to see what doesn't work. I think it's great.

Another possibility: limiting the build restrictions to teams who won a regional or a robot award last year. Discuss.
__________________
...Only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement. -JP Shanley, Joe vs. the Volcano

Last edited by Kris Verdeyen : 04-27-2005 at 01:56 PM. Reason: have and eat
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-27-2005, 03:11 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
has common ground with Matt Krass
AKA: Mike Sorrenti
FRC #0237 (Sie-H2O-Bots (See-Hoe-Bots) [T.R.I.B.E.])
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 1,003
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Re: TRIPLE REPLAY ... the consequence for not doing Dean's homework!

Teams shouldn't be required to create new teams (or do other GP things). They should (and most do) do it out of the love for FIRST and engineering in general.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
any more triple play songs? xzvrw2 Chit-Chat 5 04-09-2005 05:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi