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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:05 PM
Nimmy Nimmy is offline
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an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

well I was thinking after looking at our bot going up the ramp...

that msot high bots will be very "tipish" going up the ramp
so if we are scored EVEN but the 2 bots with me (or even 1) can't go up the ramp, maybe we will go to the opposing ramp and wait for them to try and go up it, and when the are angled and almost at the top, just give them a small "nudge" so they will have to go back or else tip (if ther are persistant..well...)

do you think this will get us a penalty?
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:07 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimmy
well I was thinking after looking at our bot going up the ramp...

that msot high bots will be very "tipish" going up the ramp
so if we are scored EVEN but the 2 bots with me (or even 1) can't go up the ramp, maybe we will go to the opposing ramp and wait for them to try and go up it, and when the are angled and almost at the top, just give them a small "nudge" so they will have to go back or else tip (if ther are persistant..well...)

do you think this will get us a penalty?
No, but it will give them points for you being on the ramp. If 3 robots are on the Blue Team's ramp, it doesn't matter what team they are supposed to be on, it still counts +25 points to their final score.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:16 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

It's also pretty much as anti-GP as you can get because I'm thinking that's gonna cause a good chunk of damage to their machine. Guess it all depends on where your team's priorities lie.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:19 PM
Taylor_Ratliff Taylor_Ratliff is offline
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Richards
No, but it will give them points for you being on the ramp. If 3 robots are on the Blue Team's ramp, it doesn't matter what team they are supposed to be on, it still counts +25 points to their final score.
No offense, but your wrong

<G09> ROBOTs on ALLIANCE PLATFORMs - ROBOTs score points if they are entirely on an ALLIANCE
PLATFORM at the end of the match. ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station. If
any part of the ROBOT is touching the carpet, the ROBOT is not considered on the platform. If a
ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM and is touching another ROBOT that is not entirely
on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM, it still is considered on the platform. One ROBOT on a platform or
ramp is worth 5 points, two ROBOTs are worth 10 points, 3 or more ROBOTs are worth 25 points.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:24 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_Ratliff
No offense, but your wrong

<G09> ROBOTs on ALLIANCE PLATFORMs - ROBOTs score points if they are entirely on an ALLIANCE
PLATFORM at the end of the match. ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station. If
any part of the ROBOT is touching the carpet, the ROBOT is not considered on the platform. If a
ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM and is touching another ROBOT that is not entirely
on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM, it still is considered on the platform. One ROBOT on a platform or
ramp is worth 5 points, two ROBOTs are worth 10 points, 3 or more ROBOTs are worth 25 points.
In what part of that am I wrong? It says ROBOTs, which count as any of the 6 on the field, not SAME-COLORED ROBOTS, which would be the robots that are the same color as the platform.

Furthermore, this section proves my point completely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Rules
ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:26 PM
B. Flaherty B. Flaherty is offline
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_Ratliff
No offense, but your wrong

<G09> ROBOTs on ALLIANCE PLATFORMs - ROBOTs score points if they are entirely on an ALLIANCE
PLATFORM at the end of the match. ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station.
If
any part of the ROBOT is touching the carpet, the ROBOT is not considered on the platform. If a
ROBOT is entirely on an ALLIANCE PLATFORM and is touching another ROBOT that is not entirely
on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM, it still is considered on the platform. One ROBOT on a platform or
ramp is worth 5 points, two ROBOTs are worth 10 points, 3 or more ROBOTs are worth 25 points.
If you re-read the rule, you will see that you are mistaken. No offense Just re-read the bold statement.

EDIT: Sorry to be redundant, was beaten to it.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:30 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth Sweet
It's also pretty much as anti-GP as you can get because I'm thinking that's gonna cause a good chunk of damage to their machine. Guess it all depends on where your team's priorities lie.
Defense is not at all anti-GP.
Damaging and laughing about it is not GP, going to help them fix it afterwards is.

Wetzel
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:35 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Flaherty
If you re-read the rule, you will see that you are mistaken. No offense Just re-read the bold statement.

EDIT: Sorry to be redundant, was beaten to it.
Um... you might want to re read it yourself, the rule clearly states that

"ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station"

Notice the either, it doesn't matter what alliance the team is, it matters how many robots are on their ramp.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:42 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyWithCape195
Um... you might want to re read it yourself, the rule clearly states that

"ALLIANCEs receive points for ROBOTs belonging to either
ALLIANCE that are on the ALLIANCE PLATFORM closest to the ALLIANCE’s DRIVER station"

Notice the either, it doesn't matter what alliance the team is, it matters how many robots are on their ramp.
That is exactly what he said. For king of the hill points, the only color that matters is the platform color.

Now that we have THAT settled....

Wetzel
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:56 PM
Nimmy Nimmy is offline
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

yeah it would probably cause serious damage, and of course if any team causes another team damage during the match the least they could do is offer a helping hand

I just wonder if giving them that "nudge" that will tip them over would be considered ramming

and yeha I know it isn't very GP (allthough as wetzel said, it's defense), but as I said a DESEPRATE and EVIL strategy =)

and hey if im on they ramp and I knocked down 3 others I earned my share EVEN if I don't get off of it at the end of the match
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:58 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

I think there was confusion because I made a double post and instead of deleting it, I just edited it to say so.

I was agreeing with Adam, and my post was in response to Taylor. I understand that the only thing that matters at the end of the match, is how many robots are on the ramp, alliance affiliation makes no difference.
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Unread 02-10-2006, 08:17 AM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimmy
I just wonder if giving them that "nudge" that will tip them over would be considered ramming
I can't remember where or when, but I was a ref in a match where the following occurred. REDABOT was hit legally by BLUEABOT. REDABOT was teetering, and BLUEABOT backed up, drove forward again slowly, then gave REDABOT a "nudge" with caused them to tip over. BLUEABOT was DQ'ed.
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Unread 02-10-2006, 08:24 AM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Pushing a robot to keep it off the platform is legitimate defense. Intentionally tipping a robot to keep it off the ramp is a penalty. It will be up to the ref to judge your intent.

My advise - don't purposely tip anyone over.
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Unread 02-10-2006, 09:01 AM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Yeah. There's that whole "Strategies aimed solely at the at the destruction or tipping of other robots" clause in the rules. I think you're skirting a very fine edge there. It's one thing to be on the ramp blocking them. It's another to be actively moving forward to tip them over. You may or may not be penalized, but I'd certainly be uncomfortablewith the strategy. And since you can't defend the entire ramp, they're likely to get atleast one robot up, plus yours, so they'd get 10 points for two bots. Or they'd keep you stuck up there and get 5 points for one bot.
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Unread 02-10-2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: an evil, desperate, ramp strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB703
Pushing a robot to keep it off the platform is legitimate defense. Intentionally tipping a robot to keep it off the ramp is a penalty. It will be up to the ref to judge your intent.

My advise - don't purposely tip anyone over.
Any team planning to use this "slight nudge" strategy as a defensive mechanism has already decided to put the referee into a judgement call decision. You might as well start writing your complaints now, cause some of these judgements will go against you.

Robots don't stop on a dime. I don't care if you don't have your hands on the joystick at the moment of impact. If the forward momentum of your robot is the last bit of energy needed for that robot to tip over, you should be penalized, regardless of how slight the impact is, or how "tipsy" the other robot is. You have chosen a strategy that splits hairs over a rule concerning the intentional tipping of robots. As Beth has stated above, many would find this strategy to be Anti-GP.

Maybe next years KOP should have air-bag sensors, so we can measure just how much force was applied to a robot that tipped over. If the air-bag goes off, you get DQ'd -- guess what, it no longer becomes a judgement call!

There are so many other potential strategies that are defensive in nature and aren't Anti-GP, that I don't see the purpose for this particular one. Why is the strategy to wait on their platform? A high CG robot is logically going to be shooting for the high goal at the end of the match. You will have at least a half field-length to block and hinder their approach to the ramp. Why would you waste your time sitting on their ramp for a potentially disasterous strategy? No, there are way too many other strategies that can be employed at the end game, than to take a chance on something as risky as this.
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