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  #346   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-17-2007, 11:51 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by T3_1565 View Post
I completely agree with this statement. I can see it being a replacement for the camera so that more and more teams can do auto mode (as far as I have heard this thing is easier to program) I can also see it being used for bonus points (end game).

If we end up having a game with invisible pieces or invisable zones or what-not, the crowd will not being nearly as "in to it" as they normally are.
They might make a zone that's visible to the crowd but not visible to the players, or one that's very obscurred for the players (i.e. they can see where their robot is but not what it's picking up)

Quote:
This was discussed in about the first 11 pages. Consensus is that it is legit. The main reason for thinking it isn't is that some teams don't have theirs yet.
Sorry, of course it's legit ... just trying to offer a practical conspiracy theory for the timing and content of the clue.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:58 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

I'm not sure this is possible, but it would be pretty cool for spectators (not really drive teams) if the virtual pieces showed up on the video, but not on the field.

I'm not sure if we have a board yet or not. We should have a meeting tonight to find out.

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Originally Posted by Leav View Post
Official word says that Israeli teams will only get this at the kickoff.....

This should help you on the speculating side I guess... It can't be that critical to send it out early if the ~40 teams here don't et it till the kickoff...

-Leav
How do you know this? I agree that it can't be that important if so many aren't getting it, but knowing that other people have it and we don't yet is driving me crazy!

EDIT:
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Originally Posted by JesseK View Post
They might make a zone that's visible to the crowd but not visible to the players, or one that's very obscurred for the players (i.e. they can see where their robot is but not what it's picking up)
You beat me to it.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 12:22 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Looking at the picture, I think this may be a field element. As a sensor for the robot, is really is rather large and bulky - like the camera, but with twice as much space taken up for diagnostics. Secondly, I can't see this being used for homing of any kind whatsoever - there is only one sensor on it, and it doesn't give signal strength, just whether or not it sees something. That doesn't lend itself to differentiation, therefore, no homing. IR homing is a pain anyway, so no real loss. Just my $0.02
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Unread 12-17-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Sparks333 View Post
Looking at the picture, I think this may be a field element. As a sensor for the robot, is really is rather large and bulky - like the camera, but with twice as much space taken up for diagnostics. Secondly, I can't see this being used for homing of any kind whatsoever - there is only one sensor on it, and it doesn't give signal strength, just whether or not it sees something. That doesn't lend itself to differentiation, therefore, no homing. IR homing is a pain anyway, so no real loss. Just my $0.02
It's like 3" by 1.5". I don't think it's really that big for putting on the robot. And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out? And where are the transmitters we'll be putting on the robots? Unless the challenge this year is for the robot to punch buttons on a universal remote. In a specific pattern..... Wait. Are we finally being tasked with the holy grail of robotics? Do we get to design robots that will program VCRs and thus end the scourge of blinking "12:00" LEDs in living rooms across the world?
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Unread 12-17-2007, 12:58 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
In my opinion, this isn't going to be useful outside of autonomous mode. Or at least only marginally useful. Why? because if it was exceedingly useful outside of autonomous, it would have to be indicating something on the field that drivers and the audience couldn't see. And any scoring method or game influencing state that's invisible to the audience will drive them absolutely batty and quickly frustrate them. Similarly, I fully expect that whatever this indicates during autonomous mode will be readily apparent to spectators. And thus could be potentially determined by the robot by other means. It's just that those other means are probably going to be a lot more complex and less reliable.
I find it hard to believe that FIRST would go through the trouble of making this component, and then only using it for Autonomous. Here's a little history to prove this.

In '04, our first year with a "targeted" Autonomous, the game was poorly designed and didn't take advantage of this target after autonomous.

In '05, we "could" have used the camera for more than autonomous, but again, the game design didn't lend itself to using it.

In '06, the target was highly used by most successful teams in both autonomous and during the human operated period, and clearly communicated to the audience which team was allowed to score.

In '07, the target was again highly used by most successful teams in autonomous, and was designed to have been used during the game as a scoring aide. I'm not sure how many teams used it outside of autonomous.

In '08? Why would FIRST design a game that only allowed the use of this technology in a finite amount of time? Why wouldn't they want us to use it for the entire match? I think (okay, hope) that they've figured out how to properly integrate this in with the rest of the game. How they may have done that, well, that's their secret for a couple weeks. Whether it requires audience feedback is a different story. I'm wondering if this is going to replace the CMUCamera, or be an addition to it.

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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:04 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out?
I believe it's handed out:
a) so you can make your own field (much like the cathodes we got last year) and
b) as a clue, as far as I can tell (I may be completely wrong) the clues for the past couple of years (last year for sure) the clue has been something about the field elements.

Does anyone know where I can find previous years hints/clues???
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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:18 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by T3_1565 View Post
Does anyone know where I can find previous years hints/clues???
An almost complete list.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ighlight=clues
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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by sishu7 View Post
Don't laugh at me!

My hint is real, told to me by a our regional FIRST co-ordinator. If you don't believe me, fine... it's your loss.

Either you'll eat your words when you see the field, or our co-ordinator is having a great laugh at my expense (which is not really like her...)
In order to know the game before Kickoff, there's a pretty hefty Non Disclosure Agreement that goes along with it. Your Regional Coordinator probably isn't authorized to give hints, as the only meaningful one is from the GDC as a whole (despite the fact that we rip through everything Dave says).

But additionally, I wouldn't be surprised if there was very little on the field. In 2005 the field was a bunch of PVC lengths and some special pieces to fit them together. In 2002 the field was 4 goals on casters and a bunch of soccer balls.

FIRST had a thing for mobile goals for a very long time, and I only got one year of them. I'd kind like it if we got some more to play with (and if the field is relatively empty, that means its possible we will get them).
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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:31 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
It's like 3" by 1.5". I don't think it's really that big for putting on the robot. And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out? And where are the transmitters we'll be putting on the robots? Unless the challenge this year is for the robot to punch buttons on a universal remote. In a specific pattern..... Wait. Are we finally being tasked with the holy grail of robotics? Do we get to design robots that will program VCRs and thus end the scourge of blinking "12:00" LEDs in living rooms across the world?
It seems, judging from the code already being passed around and the size, that it could go on the robot to interact with the field.

Now, granted, an IR remote in the stands could get messy--but the documentation I've read seems to indicate you can get other IR receivers for different frequencies beyond those normally used on TV remotes. What if FIRST gave us these to design our robots around, then gave us a board with a different, harder-to-interfere-with receiver component (but the same interface as far as the robot cares) to run on the field?
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Unread 12-17-2007, 01:39 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Elgin Clock View Post
thanks, seems what I said only applied to last year. please ignore point b. lol
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Unread 12-17-2007, 02:33 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
It seems, judging from the code already being passed around
That code was written by me. I don't even have a hardware part yet. I have received no extra hint, but merely followed the spec sheet assuming this goes on the robot.

The fact that code is being passed around doesn't prove anything, as it's not IFI/FIRST-official code.

Just thought I'd better point that out.

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Unread 12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by JBotAlan View Post
That code was written by me. I don't even have a hardware part yet. I have received no extra hint, but merely followed the spec sheet assuming this goes on the robot.

The fact that code is being passed around doesn't prove anything, as it's not IFI/FIRST-official code.

Just thought I'd better point that out.

JBot
It may be wise to change the title of your thread to "unofficial FIRST IR Code" or something like that.

Just a thought so if/when there is an official one released, it won't be confused on the boards here.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 02:56 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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In '04, our first year with a "targeted" Autonomous, the game was poorly designed ...
Ouch.



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Unread 12-17-2007, 02:59 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
Ouch.
uh oh... dave is in the thread
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Unread 12-17-2007, 02:59 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

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Originally Posted by T3_1565 View Post
uh oh... dave is in the thread
...Again. How is he messing with our minds this time?
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