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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:22 PM
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Cool Re: pic: Game hint

Here's my take on this board. The board is used to switch modes (which color to look for or which part to manipulate). It is not used for navigation. The IR has proven to be too scattered for navigation. Each team can pick the particular IR codes with their own remote. But during competition each robot will need to respond to the same IR code for each mode. The field code be almost completely covered with multiple high output IR transmitters (spotlights) from many angles. Each robot only needs to see one valid code to give the FRC controller a 100mSec signal per the Official FRC spec sheet. Well how do the units get programmed at the competition you may ask. Since I don't have a decoder board I can speculate that the J2 header on the decoder board is a programming port or a remote "learn" switch. Another possibility is that the IR board has some preprogrammed IR signals that are not used by IR remotes. If you compare the FRC decoder board to the TinyIR2 board by TaunTek You will notice the extra 10k resistor (R4) That seems to go to the J2 header. Sounds like a weak pullup for an input to the PIC. Maybe someone can post a picture of the back of the board (unless it's a 4 layer) or better yet a schematic.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:24 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred View Post
What if the indication is pointed out of the view of the alliance stations?
Erm. Well then yes, the IR board would presumably be nigh on mandatory for any team to be successful. Which is possible, but which I am philosophically opposed to.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.divsys.com View Post
Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.
Thanks Ben, I'm sure that information would be beneficial for many. Nice work - FIRST is very fortunate to have you on board. Looking forward to figuring out what this board will be used for.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 10:43 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by njamietech View Post
I'm curious too.

I'm also curious as to what you did to that image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawnos23 View Post
I think he just inverted the colors in MS Paint and then pasted in a banana, an allusion to something by Dlavery, I don't remember exactly what.
Eww, MS Paint. Those are some lonely megabytes on my hard drive, as I've haven't used MS Paint in about two years. The real story behind this image goes even deeper...

As an avid fan of Numb3rs, I like to dig deeper into everyday objects to unravel our most perplexing mysteries. I first opened the photo in Photoshop CS2, and cropped out the parts I didn't want (Otherwise the filter algorithms might return false positives). Then to highlight the differences in the photo, I ran the photo through a heightened saturation filter, with an offset in the hue. From this, I upped the contrast by about 20%, which now provided an optimal base image to begin the preliminary filter algorithms.

The first thing I would need to do was an inverse dithering and noise cancellation algorithm. Since the base photo was a JPEG image, there was noise in the photo from compressing it into a lossy file format; yet within this noise, there was also the image of the banana. Since the compression artifacts only effect the pixels around the source pixel, running the photo through these two algorithms simultaneously and integrating the results returned what I was looking for. I began to see the faint outline of a banana.

However, it took several tries to get a good filter pass of the photo. Because these filters act upon the image using Erwin Schrödinger's theories of exponential decay of pixels in compressed photos, sometimes the banana is still alive in the output, others it's not. And there is no way you can predict or know which is which, except for running the algorithm a lot and relying on an interpretation and statistical analysis of the results.

Using these results, I now needed another algorithm to be able to exactly detect the banana in the image, rather than rely on only human pattern-recognition skills, which in the hands of a creative person can result in one million different things visible in the same cloud in the sky. Obviously such a diverse range of output values given the extremely limited domain of input values in such a case would be extremely detrimental in our circumstance.

After doing some research into pattern recognition algorithms, and more specifically banana-recognition algorithms, I discovered this site about banana and apple recognition. It was a gold mine of information, and even had working algorithms. Bingo. My hunch about the banana on the left side of the image paid off. The algorithm predicted that is was indeed a banana with 99.7% certainty, and with a very narrow Gaussian distribution of the output data.

From there, I duplicated the layer and highlighted the banana in yellow to make it easier to see.

But after looking back through my source website again, so much of the website seemed applicable to FIRST at the moment. So with that in mind,


...I've thus concluded that this year's game involves... apples and bananas! How 'bout them apples?
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:01 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

this may have been said but i dont want to read about 455 post but it might have to do with the team inductor light because this cable fits on 2 sets of the connectors if i am not mistaken

Last edited by Jeff 801 : 12-17-2007 at 11:07 PM.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:11 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff 888 View Post
this may have been said but i dont want to read about 455 post but it might have to do with the team inductor light because this cable fits on 2 sets of the connectors if i am not mistaken
It isn't the diagnostic light. It's an IR receiver, programmable. Go read the thread. (You can skip the discussion of "hoax or not"--that's about 50 of the posts right there.)
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:19 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 View Post
Eww, MS Paint. Those are some lonely megabytes on my hard drive, as I've haven't used MS Paint in about two years. The real story behind this image goes even deeper...

As an avid fan of Numb3rs, I like to dig deeper into everyday objects to unravel our most perplexing mysteries. I first opened the photo in Photoshop CS2, and cropped out the parts I didn't want (Otherwise the filter algorithms might return false positives). Then to highlight the differences in the photo, I ran the photo through a heightened saturation filter, with an offset in the hue. From this, I upped the contrast by about 20%, which now provided an optimal base image to begin the preliminary filter algorithms.

The first thing I would need to do was an inverse dithering and noise cancellation algorithm. Since the base photo was a JPEG image, there was noise in the photo from compressing it into a lossy file format; yet within this noise, there was also the image of the banana. Since the compression artifacts only effect the pixels around the source pixel, running the photo through these two algorithms simultaneously and integrating the results returned what I was looking for. I began to see the faint outline of a banana.

However, it took several tries to get a good filter pass of the photo. Because these filters act upon the image using Erwin Schrödinger's theories of exponential decay of pixels in compressed photos, sometimes the banana is still alive in the output, others it's not. And there is no way you can predict or know which is which, except for running the algorithm a lot and relying on an interpretation and statistical analysis of the results.

Using these results, I now needed another algorithm to be able to exactly detect the banana in the image, rather than rely on only human pattern-recognition skills, which in the hands of a creative person can result in one million different things visible in the same cloud in the sky. Obviously such a diverse range of output values given the extremely limited domain of input values in such a case would be extremely detrimental in our circumstance.

After doing some research into pattern recognition algorithms, and more specifically banana-recognition algorithms, I discovered this site about banana and apple recognition. It was a gold mine of information, and even had working algorithms. Bingo. My hunch about the banana on the left side of the image paid off. The algorithm predicted that is was indeed a banana with 99.7% certainty, and with a very narrow Gaussian distribution of the output data.

From there, I duplicated the layer and highlighted the banana in yellow to make it easier to see.

But after looking back through my source website again, so much of the website seemed applicable to FIRST at the moment. So with that in mind,


...I've thus concluded that this year's game involves... apples and bananas! How 'bout them apples?
I had to compress the photo more then default to get under CD's 750KB limit. I'm pretty sure it was a pineapple before compression.
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:24 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
It isn't the diagnostic light. It's an IR receiver, programmable. Go read the thread. (You can skip the discussion of "hoax or not"--that's about 50 of the posts right there.)
i understand that part but where on the robot controller could it plug in
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Unread 12-17-2007, 11:54 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
I had to compress the photo more then default to get under CD's 750KB limit. I'm pretty sure it was a pineapple before compression.
Ooh.. pineapples.
Now you're speakin' my language.

Or... wait.. I didn't buy those pineapples.
But I did buy the Banana costume.
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Unread 12-18-2007, 02:39 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

my conclusion is that the field will communicate to the robot, a solid, strong single signal that will probably change based on the state of the game(think offense, defense,ffa). IR is too shady try to communicate back and forth, but if you have enough power and transmitters i think the field could cut through anything, and render all auto focusing stuff useless. This could even be another lair of safety! I wonder why IR.......
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Unread 12-18-2007, 06:24 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.divsys.com View Post
We have some other cool things coming....
Seems pretty clear to me... the receiver board is for the robot. With digital outs it doesn't make sense to go on a field component. FIRST is sending out the kits early so everyone on break can play with them. My hunch is that Diversified Systems is also providing the IR emitters. Or shall we say beacons. The beacons will be battery powered and part of field components/scoring objects.
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Unread 12-18-2007, 06:53 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

The age-old debate of the sequence of circle/square/triangle game pieces will come to an end in 2008.
This year's game will feature all three.
Spheres, cubes, and tetrahedrons will be scattered in some way around the field, to be placed by the robots in corresponding bins. There will be casters on the bottom of the cube-bin and the tetra-bin, making them mobile around the field. The collection for the spheres will be much like the ground goals in Aim High, and they may be reintroduced to the arena by human players after having been scored. Much like Triple Play, a few of the game pieces, as well as the mobile bins, will have IR signals coming from them; the robots will have to differentiate between the different game pieces and place them in the correct bins during autonomous mode. Robots will score 2 points for each game piece placed in a bin, 5 points for each correct placement, and a 20-point autonomous bonus. There will be raised platforms on each half; at the end of the game, a multiplier will be awarded for each mobile bin atop the alliance's platform.
The name of the contest is Match Game (a not-so-hidden reference to Dave Lavery's childhood hero, Gene Rayburn).
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Unread 12-18-2007, 07:26 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

[quote=www.divsys.com;660698]Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.[/QUOTE

Yes! Please!
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Unread 12-18-2007, 07:35 AM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by www.divsys.com View Post
Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.
Ben,

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Unread 12-18-2007, 08:11 AM
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Guess


I know what i said earlier, but

My guess from reading this and other threads is that there will be different goals on the field and the goals will change value in points or will only be scorable at certain times. Once the robot is close to a goal it will be able to pick up the IR and decide weather or not to put the object in the goal.

This is simple and makes sense. Right
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