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Unread 12-20-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock View Post
Hold on just a second!
If I follow what you are saying correctly, and relate it to an IR sensor on a TV & a VCR in the same room is that once you program board 1 (TV) with Remote 1 and then use Remote 2 next to it for something else (VCR, board 2, whatever the case) that you render the board 1 (and Remote 1) completely inoperable with each other?

That (if you don't have a faulty board) does not sound good.

Basically what I'm understanding is that when you program it with Remote 1, then pushing anything on Remote number 2 makes all remotes useles???

This doesn't make sense to me. Please tell me I misunderstood you.

I have a theory if this is indeed what you meant. But I'll hold off on that while you answer this one.
That is exactly what I meant! I brought out two remotes to test the theory people had on each human player having a remote, so I programmed remote 1 with 4 buttons to use, and remote 2 with no buttons.

So pushing and holding remote 1 makes light 1 blink, and pushing any other button (including other programmed/unprogrammed buttons on remote 1) makes the board completely and totally useless.

With that being said I think the only possible thing this can be used for is for stationary towers on the field to emit signals to the robot (assuming FIRST can arrange said signals to not interfer with one another).

I will test a couple more things and get back to you all!
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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Question Re: pic: Game hint

Just a question:

What would be the purpose of the playing pieces sending out signals like "I'm worth one point"?

Wouldn't this be useless during human operated mode? wouldn't we need a display to let us know what signal the pieces are emitting during Human mode?

Just seems like FIRST would not go to that much trouble to equip their game pieces with that tech when it would only be useful for 10 seconds.

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:20 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Wow...I am enjoying all the guessed scenarios for the "real" use of this board. Talk about a serious WWW brainstorming session. Keep it up ladies and gentlemen...restlessness breeds ingenuity.


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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

It is great to see so many teams off and running with creative speculation and so busy trying to familiarize themselves with the IR "hint"...those fortunate enough to have received one. Team 987 anxiously awaits their delivery. Here's our concern...should it turn out that this part is an important component of the game, isn't there an issue of fairness regarding some teams having almost a week headstart working with the part while the rest of us sit here empty handed??? Seems to be inconsistant with standard FIRST policy so does this mean this might just be another red herring?... in which case this has been much ado about nothing? If this component is important, any ideas how we and other teams still waiting can get ahold of our IR board?
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:25 PM
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Pieces with IR??

Quote:
Originally Posted by njamietech View Post
Just a question:

What would be the purpose of the playing pieces sending out signals like "I'm worth one point"?

Wouldn't this be useless during human operated mode? wouldn't we need a display to let us know what signal the pieces are emitting during Human mode?

Just seems like FIRST would not go to that much trouble to equip their game pieces with that tech when it would only be useful for 10 seconds.

Correct me if I am wrong.
Chances of using it on the pieces are slim to none. Look at pervious years. Do you really think they will have thousands of game pieces equip with IR??

I doubt it personally. I mean they could, but look how many pieces get trashed in one year, all at $5+ to have produced (thats how much the board cost, so I'm assuming a transmittor cost that much as well). It seems unlikely.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:27 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB987 View Post
It is great to see so many teams off and running with creative speculation and so busy trying to familiarize themselves with the IR "hint"...those fortunate enough to have received one. Team 987 anxiously awaits their delivery. Here's our concern...should it turn out that this part is an important component of the game, isn't there an issue of fairness regarding some teams having almost a week headstart working with the part while the rest of us sit here empty handed??? Seems to be inconsistant with standard FIRST policy so does this mean this might just be another red herring?... in which case this has been much ado about nothing? If this component is important, any ideas how we and other teams still waiting can get ahold of our IR board?
I doubt it will be all that useful to say the truth, I'm pretty sure you can manage through this game without it, it just might help (like the camera)
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Chances of using it on the pieces are slim to none. Look at pervious years. Do you really think they will have thousands of game pieces equip with IR??

I doubt it personally. I mean they could, but look how many pieces get trashed in one year, all at $5+ to have produced (thats how much the board cost, so I'm assuming a transmittor cost that much as well). It seems unlikely.
That's what I was thinking too...

Now what if the field was sending out those types of signals...

Wouldn't we still need a display?

Wouldn't it still be useless outside of autonomous?
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Unread 12-20-2007, 02:33 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by njamietech View Post
That's what I was thinking too...

Now what if the field was sending out those types of signals...

Wouldn't we still need a display?

Wouldn't it still be useless outside of autonomous?
Well you can set up the lights of the OI board to give signals

And yes I think it will only be useful in Auto
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Unread 12-20-2007, 03:03 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB987 View Post
It is great to see so many teams off and running with creative speculation and so busy trying to familiarize themselves with the IR "hint"...those fortunate enough to have received one. Team 987 anxiously awaits their delivery. Here's our concern...should it turn out that this part is an important component of the game, isn't there an issue of fairness regarding some teams having almost a week headstart working with the part while the rest of us sit here empty handed??? Seems to be inconsistant with standard FIRST policy so does this mean this might just be another red herring?... in which case this has been much ado about nothing? If this component is important, any ideas how we and other teams still waiting can get ahold of our IR board?
Joe, I addressed some of those concerns you raised in this thread.
By being here on CD and reading the posts, you are already helping yourselves.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 03:42 PM
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Talking Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by njamietech View Post
That's what I was thinking too...

Now what if the field was sending out those types of signals...

Wouldn't we still need a display?

Wouldn't it still be useless outside of autonomous?

How about this scenario... We have game pieces of some sort that will go into a goal. When we get to the goal, the goal is sending a signal out to tell our robots which of 4 (?) bins to drop it into. Depending on how well our robots respond will determine the point count. THis would make the game semi-autonomous even in the non-autonomous portion of the game. More things to think about
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Unread 12-20-2007, 04:32 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

this is a neat idea!

But as I said in previous posts I can't see the game revolving around this IR board. Much like Rack N' Roll didn't revolve around the spider foot

I see the being useful but not nessacary!

And through testing, my biggest concern with this piece is interference. If the transmitters can move, they can interfer with one another, your bin idea could work but, they would have to be stationary, and not pointing at one another lol.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 05:09 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Problems I can see:

If the sensor is on the robot:
field has transmitter
-can't have IR reflective material for the walls (multiple interfering signals)
-fairly expensive if its on game pieces that get destroyed
player has transmitter
-players transmitting at the same time interfere with each other
-2 teams with the same signal for different things can mess with each other

If the sensor is on the field:
Robot has transmitter
-need to be fairly accurate with the transmitter
-2 robots transmitting at the same time = nothing happens (interfere)
player has transmitter
-isn't there an easier way than IR, like just 4 buttons?

If the sensor is at the player station:
field has transmitter
-why use IR for this?
robot has transmitter
-robot can transmit data through the radio, why use IR?
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Unread 12-20-2007, 07:55 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Problem: I get which cables do what, but we only have one cable for each output, and dig ins are pwms, aka 3 cables. How do you wire it to connect?

thanks for any help
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Unread 12-20-2007, 08:28 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Well I have a thought for the moment and I wonder the significance or potential impact to the actual usability of this device.

Most event venues that I have attended use tungsten/halogen lighting. With all that IR being thrown out on to the field from the lighting it will make using IR as a requirement for this year game quite the challenge to over come.

What is a halogen bulb?
Halogen is a type of incandescent lamp. It has a tungsten filament just like a regular incandescent that you may use in your home, however the bulb is filled with halogen gas. An incandescent lamp produces light by heating a tungsten filament.

How much heat or infrared radiation is emitted by halogen light bulbs?
Because incandescent and halogen bulbs create light through heat, about 90% of the energy they emit is in the form of heat also called infrared radiation.

Any other intriguing thoughts on this aspect?
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Unread 12-20-2007, 10:28 PM
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Re: pic: Game hint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
Problem: I get which cables do what, but we only have one cable for each output, and dig ins are pwms, aka 3 cables. How do you wire it to connect?
For the cmd0,1,2,3 signal wires turn the pwm connector sideways and push it onto three side-by-side signal pins leaving the ground and power pins unconnected.
One signal pin will be the odd man out of a standard three wire cable, so you can either use two cables or you can spring for your own female connectors and a 4-pin connector housing.
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