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Unread 06-03-2001, 07:07 AM
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Lightbulb Possibility of FIRST game in water

Lately there has been a lot of talk about 2vs2 vs 4vs0, lots of talk about battlebots and FIRST's lack of media coverage.... but.... if you want to do something different that will for sure capture media attention, make a game in water!

Okay, there are some safety issues... even though water is a poor conductor of electricity... but with proper guidelines and rules for "water-safe robots", these safety issues could be resolved. Besides, with the complicatedness of recent games, I think FIRST teams would be up for the challenge. I would be concerned about some rookie teams -- for making a robot that moves in water would be a lot more difficult than making a wheel turn.

But the real nice thing about a game in water is that it would for sure capture the media's attention, and I bet we could get TV coverage. Realistically, water may be difficult to pull off, but I think FIRST should be looking to do something... different...

It would also be a slap in the face to teams that design their drive systems early
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Unread 06-03-2001, 10:24 AM
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Unhappy A Water game would be great BUT....

A water game would be a great challenge. However to rookie teams will not be so great. Also there are teams that does not have any engineers to help build robots(RAMBOTS). It would be such a great challenge but they could maybe give us an extra week to build it.

Jeff "Engineer????" Wong
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Unread 06-03-2001, 12:21 PM
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if nothing else itd certaintly be fun
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Unread 06-03-2001, 02:08 PM
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I think I have a pretty definitve answer for this-

1- the transmission of signals with the controllers is for lack of a better word- crappy
I tired as a engineering project wiht my tech ed class with rather disasterous results
(the innovation controllers do not react well with water!!

2- the arenas that would have the comps would probable not like having that much water

(remeber that 1 cubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs!!!!!!)
and just the mere hint of a possibit;ly of water leakage would dissuade them from having them there


dahl
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Unread 06-03-2001, 06:41 PM
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NO RUMOR THERE HAS BEEN WATER IN A FIRST GAME!!!

Hello All,

I wonder if anyone knows this. But...I just came across a 20/20 episode from 1993, this would be the "Rug Rage" year. Anyways...the small balls from that year were filled with water. I've watched video and I can't really tell how it effected the dynamics of this. I have heard that FIRST staff will not discuss this or acknowledge it if asked. So that a little known piece of historical FIRST trivia.

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Unread 06-03-2001, 08:18 PM
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I haven't seen the 20/20 video for several years (and I wasn't involved in the competiton back in 93) but it looked to me like the water was used only to add weight to the balls, not to change the motion. It would be the same effect if they had been completely filled with sand.

Would someone involved back then care to elaborate?
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Unread 06-03-2001, 08:56 PM
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Thumbs down Would not...

Sand definitely does not move the same way as water does in ball. Water would create ripple effects, which would affect ball dynamics and move them in different places when you don't want the ball moved. Sand just kind of settles...

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Unread 06-03-2001, 09:42 PM
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it looked to me like the balls were completly filled with water, which would shouldn't cause any type of ripple effects.
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Unread 06-04-2001, 10:49 AM
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Practice fields?

While I certainly think the addition of water elements to the game might be interesting, I can't help but wonder what all of the teams that don't have room for a permanent playing field would do.

It would certainly be a pain to have to refill a tank of water or something everytime we wanted practice, and then try to figure out what to do with it afterwards.

I think, in general, that complicated playing fields such as that are not likely because the resources of some teams don't permit them to build full size, or semi-permanent version of the field.

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Unread 06-04-2001, 11:49 AM
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I believe the general consensus every time the idea of a water game is brought up is that the electrical wiring would be too difficult for many teams. Teams have problems wiring the robot now -- a lot of those teams would be at a loss because of water. It's not the fact that water's a poor conductor of electricity, just that it IS a conductor and it's a liquid. It's much harder to insulate against water because it can get just about anywhere because it's a liquid. And I doubt a "safety" manual would provide enough instruction to properly waterproof the robot (what about the motors?). And about '93, I knew about the water in the balls but why would FIRST refuse to comment on it?

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Unread 06-04-2001, 02:38 PM
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We'll never see water, ice, sand. . .

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Krass


I think, in general, that complicated playing fields such as that are not likely because the resources of some teams don't permit them to build full size, or semi-permanent version of the field.

I think this is the main reason stopping a field of water, sand, ice or anything else for that matter. Not the fact that water would be hard to engineer around, but rather the fact that a playing field must be able to be built and maintained by any team, anywhere in the country. For that matter, I don't think we'll ever have objects on the field that a team can not buy (balls) or easily make (floppies).

Justin
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Unread 06-04-2001, 02:52 PM
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Question WHY

Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
And about '93, I knew about the water in the balls but why would FIRST refuse to comment on it?

Could there be something in FIRST's past that they are ashamed of? Did something happen that year that prevents them from saying something? Or do they never comment on past games.


I would like to know why they won't comment on it.
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Unread 06-04-2001, 04:51 PM
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Not always..

The playing fields have not always been portable. The first competition, Maize Craze, featured arenas full of corn; somehow I don't think that's too portable.
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Unread 06-04-2001, 07:17 PM
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Well.....

Quote:
Originally posted by David Kelly:

Could there be something in FIRST's past that they are ashamed of? Did something happen that year that prevents them from saying something? Or do they never comment on past games.

I would like to know why they won't comment on it.
The year of '93 and the water filled balls didn't go nearly as well as originally desired. They like to try to pretend it never happened. If you know some of them well enough, when you ask them about it they just laugh it off and go on with whatever else they're doing.

So far as playing fields besides water, why not go back to the corn-type-stuff from back in the day of '92?
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Unread 06-04-2001, 07:59 PM
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About 1992 + Corn

Okay,

As far as the portability of Corn...what we need to remember is that portability was not an issue in 92. Because there was one comp...period. They didn't need to move the field @ all so. I for one would love to see corn just to harken back to the old days pay homage to where it all began :-)

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