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View Poll Results: Do you like the new seeding system?
Yes, I like this system. 10 3.21%
Yes, I like the system, although it's not perfect. 23 7.37%
I have mixed feelings about it. 42 13.46%
No, I don't like the system, although with a few tweaks it could be fine. 27 8.65%
No, I like the idea of this system, but I don't think it works out in practice. 41 13.14%
No, I don't like this system, period. 169 54.17%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Jonathan Norris Jonathan Norris is offline
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

No.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

Not to put to fine a point on it but:


This system sucks more than our ball possession system.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:36 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

flat out terrible...
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:39 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

No, the scoring system is completely upside-down. Basically if you loose you win (or tie, depending if the enemy alliance got any penalties), if you win, you loose. The system seems to be there so "everyone wins", but in reality not everyone wins.

I think Koko Ed put it well
Quote:
So basically it's FIRST's version of No Child Left Behind. Because as my wife said if no one gets ahead no one gets left behind.
Also, wasn't the scoring system supposed to be easier to understand this year?

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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:42 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtD View Post
Also, wasn't the scoring system supposed to be easier to understand this year?
The scoring was supposed to be, but they never said anything about the ranking system.

Seems like they switched the "complicated-ness" of the two, for some reason...

-Tanner
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:43 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

*sigh*

The system makes my job as a strategy guy very difficult, because as much as I want to tell my coach and drivers to score score score with the robot that we spent SO MUCH TIME trying to make into something which could SCORE A LOT (generally the point of a game), I cannot. I understood g-14 last year, to an extent. I think this system is this year's g-14, as it is counter-intuitive, but worse in the sense that it is also easily manipulated. I've seen teams with losing records in picking positions this year, is that alright? Is that acceptable? Should alliances be chosen by those whose robot is less effective? If you would like a perfect, specific example: team 1717 D'Penguineers have designed an amazing robot this year. It hangs quickly, effectively, and they can score a goal from any zone at a whim. They were 41st going into friday, and after 1 match, jumped to around 12th. Something about that doesn't seem right. They shouldn't have been that low, as they did amazing during the matches, but even so they were able to jump 29 places in one round...

Something seems off. I, personally, don't enjoy it. I like the idea of a ranking system as opposed to wins and losses, but it requires some major tweaking to meet it's original goals of rewarding tough competition.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:43 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

At first I did not like the seeding system at all, but I am now coming around! The system rewards a high scoring robot. At DC there were 9 qualification matches and the for the most part the best scoring robots were seeded highly. Yes you can force the seeding higher through agreeing to score all the balls in one goal and all get the winnig alliance score but the best way to get a high seeding is to play the game. Scoring a lot and winning against a tough alliance will get you far more seeding points. And yes it does discourage defense during qualification rounds.

I am really curious about one thing though! Are there teams that start the build season with a wholly defensive strategy in mind?
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:47 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
Not to put to fine a point on it but:


This system sucks more than our ball possession system.
Brilliantly stated.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 03:49 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

In addition, Michigan teams have their own state ranking to keep in mind where a win is two points and a tie is one. Then there are various points for being chosen for eliminations and awards. For the teams that didn't win an event or one of three awards, they need these points to qualify for the State Championship. IMO teams need high scoring, penalty-free matches that are only a point or two apart.* After watching Kettering, I didn't see too many of those. Hopefully we'll see more matches like this as competitions progress.

*I think this is where the coopertition comes in. If this were to happen, it should balance out the ranking system as well.

FiM update #3 Page 7 has the section on point values for Michigan ranking.

I like the general concept as it encourages close matches, but over all, I don't like the new system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruneau1727 View Post
I am really curious about one thing though! Are there teams that start the build season with a wholly defensive strategy in mind?
Yes. One of the rookie teams we mentor this year did. They were formed right before kickoff, and were still recruiting students during the first week of build! They went to their first competition with two students, the only two they have. Due to lack of time and students, they build a purely defensive robot.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 04:20 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Do you like the seeding system?

See my signature.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 04:45 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

When first rolled out I thought this was the year that we would have a good game to play. Boy was I wrong. Again too many penalties to decide matches and a very convoluted ranking system. Sorry but many more years of these types of games and not sure I'll play
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Unread 03-07-2010, 04:48 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

After coming back from Peachtree, I can say the system has a lot of bugs in it.
Reviewing scouting sheets that my team compiled, at least one robot in the top 10 was dead for more than half the rounds it entered. Although the finals turned out to be extremely well played and exciting, I was disappointed to see some of, in my opinion, the best teams in the regional ranked 25 and below. At one point, my team with at least 3 wins was ranked behind a team that had no wins.
Why would there be a system that punished teams who could play the game well and rewarded others that could not?
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Unread 03-07-2010, 04:54 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

Yes. The more thought I put into it, the more I like it.
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Unread 03-07-2010, 04:55 PM
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Unhappy Re: Do you like the seeding system?

Rewarding incompetence! Just like the bank CEO's who got bonuses for not doing their job!
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Unread 03-07-2010, 05:06 PM
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Re: Do you like the seeding system?

It makes it easy to play the game backwards: park two robots in front of your own goals and have the last score points for the other team. Or else play 6 robots against zero (there's coopertition for you.)
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