Fetcher/Strategy

[pandamonium]

Here is a question what would a feeder need to be able to do in order to be valuable?

Assuming a 2 scoring 1 feeding scenario, Is getting a tube into the alliances zone every 7 - 10 seconds good enough?

[Molten]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Here is a question what would a feeder need to be able to do in order to be valuable?

Assuming a 2 scoring 1 feeding scenario, Is getting a tube into the alliances zone every 7 - 10 seconds good enough?

Are we talking 7-10 seconds after factoring in for heavy defense or without defense? If you can do that with defense considered, I'd consider it impressive. If your talking without, I'm not so impressed. Also, is that with or without a minibot? How open are you to taking orders from another team? Do you have a system worked out to make sure you always bring the tube that is needed? These are important questions to consider when deciding a team's value to an alliance.

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

Here is a question what would a feeder need to be able to do in order to be valuable?

Assuming a 2 scoring 1 feeding scenario, Is getting a tube into the alliances zone every 7 - 10 seconds good enough?

The most important thing about a fetcher is to be able to get the tubes into the offensive zone around, or over defense.

I want to emphasize OVER. The width of the offensive zone is pretty small and it will probably be pretty easy for a defender to keep your robot from physically getting into the zone. If you can throw the tubes OVER the defender and into the zone, that would be highly valuable.

[pandamonium]

OVER! and in reguard to your defense question, they can not play defense if we never leave our lane...
without a mini bot

How open are you to taking orders from another team?
Although I think that there is fundamentally something wrong with this question but I have seen some teams dominate an alliance and order around other teams. That aside however we will work with other teams, for this to work we need work together. This design is based around team work.


Do you have a system worked out to make sure you always bring the tube that is needed? NOt necesary
the tubes come so fast in a pre determined order

[EagleEngineer]

"Fetcher" would have some serious problems if its alliance partners could not score effectively.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by EagleEngineer

"Fetcher" would have some serious problems if its alliance partners could not score effectively.

Reminds me of 469's strategy last year...

[Molten]

Originally Posted by pandamonium

OVER! and in reguard to your defense question, they can not play defense if we never leave our lane...
without a mini bot

How open are you to taking orders from another team?
Although I think that there is fundamentally something wrong with this question but I have seen some teams dominate an alliance and order around other teams. That aside however we will work with other teams, for this to work we need work together. This design is based around team work.


Do you have a system worked out to make sure you always bring the tube that is needed? NOt necesary
the tubes come so fast in a pre determined order

I've had my experience with coaches barking orders at other teams student's, but thats not what I was referring to. I was meaning that for an alliance to succeed it often means that one team takes charge. Willingness to be that team or to follow that team is important. Nobody wants on an alliance with a team that plays their own game. If your 2nd/3rd pick(which the fetcher most definitely will be), your probably going to be following. Also, I think a good minibot is kind of key to any fetcher strategy. I mean, if your the one that can't score, your the one free to set up the minibot. That allows one of your alliance members to continue to score the stockpile of tubes that you've accumulated the rest of the match. I'm not saying that your robot won't be a good pick. 7-10 seconds sounds good. But I think I'd rather have one that could do 10-12 seconds consistently and a good minibot.

If you have a chance, I'd at least have the capability to deploy a variety of minibots. That way you can at least deploy another teams even if your not committed to be able to make one yourself.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I wonder if it would be better for the hanger just to start placing tubes right away, instead of taking 2-3 trips to get tubes. Recalling our fairly sucessful robot in 2007, it took us a fair amount of time to pick up tubes; enough that I wouldn't want to drop a tube just to pick it back up again later in the match. Plus, I would hate to spend too much time gathering tubes to run out of time to hang them all at the end.

I agree with this but only because when you're trying to score on an empty spot on the grid, there is less traffic and obstacles in the scoring zone in which to place tubes.
Regardless of whether you pile them up or not, you still have to get each piece one at a time, with or without defense.

On another note, I would never go for a 2 scorer, 1 fetch strategy. There's a reason why there are two loading stations. Idle time is a waste of time.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by IndySam

History shows us that few teams will be able to effectively quickly score on the top pegs at regionals especially in week one. So strategy will constantly evolve as always. Most matches will have only one or even no effective top peg scorer that can also pick up from the floor. In that case a fetcher would be useless. But that same useless fetcher will be scouted by the top teams and can become very valuable as the second pick for eliminations.

A good early regional finals alliance might consist of one Scorer and one feeder working together with a third robot running defense or interference.

The scorer gets their own tubes and also places the tubes provided by the fetcher.

Defensive robot is either providing picks for the scorer/fetchers or playing defense against other alliance.

Having said all that, I never want to design a robot that's goal is to be that second pick.

In regionals with lots of successful veterans during week 1, I'd say two great scorers in a "good" early finals.

[pandamonium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrgc6KNDgY8

[cmass]

Originally Posted by Shaf2909

Well be prepared. We a successfully prototypes a mechanism that can throw the Triangle and that circle and our square is poped.but we have it on a rotating plate that can aim. all we do is drive forwards and backwards and throw tubes. Right now it throws like 10ft but today is the first day we used it. We have ideas how to throw it further also expecting anywhere from 15 to 25 ft. we will have it dialed in this week. Please keep posting. We really want to know how other teams could utilize this.

Human player can whip it 25' with an overhand frisbee movement over the wall. Very difficult for a robot to match that level of distance and control without breaking itself apart (see mythbuster sword swinger).

You can do a lot more good with human player flinging, a couple of fast / powerful bots herding/carrying into the scoring zone and letting a very accurate mechanum place them as high as possible.

I don't worry about the time it takes to unload/reload. If the mechanum can load a part every 20 seconds, the top row is covered. If it can load every 10 seconds, top two rows are covered. 6.66 seconds covers all pegs. I think with two fast / agile bots gathering and delivering, a single scorer is enough. Be nice if the gatherers could launch mini's successfully so that the mechanum can continue to score right to the end.

[PhilBot]

From our experience in Rack N Roll, a miss-thrown tube can be a game killer.

Anyone who thinks they (or their robot) can throw a tube "accurately" 15 feet is dreaming. SO think it through.....

First: These tubes are not alliance-coded (like rack N roll), so the opposing alliance can pick them up and score them as well. So a tube that doesn't go at least half way across the field benefits the opposing alliance more.

Second: The one-tube possesion rules makes it EXTREMELY dangerous to get a tube airborne. If your tube lands ON your alliance partner and can't be removed, you've just killed their scoring ability. If your tube lands ON your opponent it may kill their scoring ability, or it may not sice teams cannot force penalties on the opposing alliance. You may even be penalized for that by some future rule.

In Rack N Roll, we had an over-eager alliance PARTNER toss a tube which landed on our robot and couldn't be removed. Match lost..... Guess who got scratched from our scouting list? Probably hurt our chances as well.

Phil.