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Unread 03-29-2011, 09:35 AM
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More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

I was thinking about the ranking sites like the top 25 and OPR and how going to more then one regional, or appearing in the later regionals would effect a team's ranking. Do you guys think that good teams might fall off the radar, especially of the popular vote, if they don't play as much? Conversely do you think that teams who are constantly in the public eye would tend to get a higher vote then if they were not?
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Unread 03-29-2011, 10:20 AM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Sure they do. Take 67 for example: They moved up a lot after their second regional, even though their robot performed basically the same (when it could move, that is). New names will also probably show up after their first regional, even if teams that were just as good dropped off the rankings in earlier weeks. 469 was one of those teams, but I doubt even without playing another regional they would drop off the rankings, due to the hype surrounding their number.

However, I believe the teams that truly deserve to be in the top 25 won't drop off, even if they only played in week 1. 148 and 254 have played only 1 regional, and their rankings haven't changed much despite being on the charts for weeks. Team 40 will probably remain near the top, even though they're not nearly as well known as the other teams in the top 10.
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Last edited by AmoryG : 03-29-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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Unread 03-29-2011, 10:46 AM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMax161 View Post
I was thinking about the ranking sites like the top 25 and OPR and how going to more then one regional, or appearing in the later regionals would effect a team's ranking. Do you guys think that good teams might fall off the radar, especially of the popular vote, if they don't play as much? Conversely do you think that teams who are constantly in the public eye would tend to get a higher vote then if they were not?
Sure, I see the top 25 as a mixture between a college sports ranking system and this years NBA allstar voting system. If someone is unfamiliar with the two basically what happened this years allstar voting was simply the fans got to vote, therefore there was a mix of people voting based on who deserved to be in the allstar game and a mix of people voting simply based on their favorite player. So just like Yao Ming was voted into the allstar game without actually playing as well as some other players I imagine the same thing can happen here. On the flip side, in college sports a team that has big wins against big teams will be weighed accordingly in the ranking system. So what some may not consider is the level of competition certain teams face may be taken into account by some voters. Not speaking on any team specifically but it would be easier as a voter to rank team X higher when you know they have beat high caliber teams as oppose to team Y who hasn't faced those teams. Sorry if I got off the main question for a sec but I thought it was a thought worth discussing.
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Unread 03-29-2011, 03:30 PM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmoryG View Post
Sure they do. Take 67 for example: They moved up a lot after their second regional, even though their robot performed basically the same (when it could move, that is). New names will also probably show up after their first regional, even if teams that were just as good dropped off the rankings in earlier weeks. 469 was one of those teams, but I doubt even without playing another regional they would drop off the rankings, due to the hype surrounding their number.

However, I believe the teams that truly deserve to be in the top 25 won't drop off, even if they only played in week 1. 148 and 254 have played only 1 regional, and their rankings haven't changed much despite being on the charts for weeks. Team 40 will probably remain near the top, even though they're not nearly as well known as the other teams in the top 10.
What do you base your observations regarding 67 on? In their second regional, they ripped up the majority of the competition, on many occasions launching their minibot then returning to score more tubes. Their OPR was by far the highest in the competition after qualifications. Their failure in the playoffs was no fault of theirs - they were unlucky enough to have a tube sucked into their drivetrain and lock them up.

In any numerical system, like OPR, the frequency of competition doesn't matter.

In public opinion (popularity), which is largely what the frc top 25 is, teams that have played more recently or have a reputation will be near the top.

Qualitative vs Quantitative.
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Unread 03-29-2011, 03:39 PM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
What do you base your observations regarding 67 on? In their second regional, they ripped up the majority of the competition, on many occasions launching their minibot then returning to score more tubes. Their OPR was by far the highest in the competition after qualifications. Their failure in the playoffs was no fault of theirs - they were unlucky enough to have a tube sucked into their drivetrain and lock them up.

In any numerical system, like OPR, the frequency of competition doesn't matter.

In public opinion (popularity), which is largely what the frc top 25 is, teams that have played more recently or have a reputation will be near the top.

Qualitative vs Quantitative.
The difference in 67 he's talking about are the electrical issues they had at Kettering vs a almost prefect West Michigan... 67 was a number 1 threat at Kettering and were a scoring machine until they ran into 5 straight failures on Saturday...
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Unread 03-29-2011, 03:39 PM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
What In any numerical system, like OPR, the frequency of competition doesn't matter.

In public opinion (popularity), which is largely what the frc top 25 is, teams that have played more recently or have a reputation will be near the top.

Qualitative vs Quantitative.
While frequency doesn't necessarily matter for a thing like OPR, most teams do improve during their second event and thus have a higher OPR unless their original OPR was due to a lucky schedule, or they broke during their second event. The growth tends to be a function of how good you started off. REally good teams may see 10-15% growth at their second event. Good teams may see 15-50% growth. Lower OPR teams tend to double (assuming a postive number).

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Unread 03-29-2011, 07:10 PM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

Boy Ike, I hope you're right. Our first event performance was abysmal.
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Unread 03-29-2011, 07:30 PM
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Re: More Regionals = Higher Ranking?

I think in general teams in later regionals will get higher rankings, because teams are learning how to play the game, learning from watching other events, etc. The overall scores are going to get higher each week, so anyone looking at OPR data will see steady increases.

For example, a week 1 Regional maybe a team that could score 5 tubes and a minibot was the top at an event. By week 3 that same performance would be middle of the pack, because the entire fields have matured.
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