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  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2011, 10:39 AM
Travis Hoffman's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

THIS!

The MASSIVE backlog of humanity at the main pit entrance, trying to return to the pits following the opening ceremonies was ABSURD (luckily, I found a path less traveled).

FIRST, do yourselves a favor, FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES! Curb some of that traffic, and stop trying to forcibly impose your flawed view of "you're only GP if you're at the opening ceremonies" on the relative few pit personnel from each team trying to prep their robot and operations for the day's activities.

Show some appreciation to THIS person who is involved and volunteering HIS own time and effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aren_Hill View Post
We were asked to clear the pits friday morning for opening ceremonies, to which i responded by pulling out a manual and having a civil discussion with the volunteer regarding the actual rules pertaining to said events.

In the "At the events" section of the manual

4.10.1 All Teams Should Attend
We encourage all team members to attend the ceremonies, on time, to show appreciation for the event and those people involved who are volunteering their time and efforts.

4.10.2 Pit Manners/Rules During the Ceremonies
- Team members will not be allowed to use power tools, hammers or other noisy tools during the ceremonies.
- All persons in the Pit should observe the code of behavior for the presentation of all national anthems:
o Maintain a respectful silence;
o Stand, facing the flag. If there is no flag, look toward the video screen showing a flag; and
o ALL hats off please.

The volunteer then took the manual back to his superior and returned to us informing us we would be allowed to stay as long as we followed the listed rules, which we did.

This same situation happened in Wisconsin only I wasn't as well versed on that section of the manual, lesson learned.

At no point does it say "empty the pits" or "only two people" or half the other things being told to teams, and this goes for every event.

I thoroughly thanked the volunteer for participating in a healthy discussion and taking to correct course of action, which is more than can be said for some other encounters we've had this season.

If my robot is operating 100%, I'll be at the ceremonies, if it is not then it has my attention until it is. This is how I believe it should stay as it is disrespectful to a team who has put in countless hours constructing it to not allow allotted(1) time to make sure it is working properly.

(1) The champs agenda says Pits open at 7:15am and close at 8pm, I count this as allotted pit time

This was more of a positive at champs, but is in response to a post here.
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Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 05-02-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 10:48 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

The Biggest negative I saw this year was in the newton Division you needed a step stool to go to the men's bathroom.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 10:50 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

My only negative besides the one's already mentioned was the referee call to rematch one of our matches a day after the match.

Apparently there was a 4 second time discrepancy. I never noticed it on our match, but I did notice it on another match on Curie (in the dome Friday).

If there really was a 4 second time discrepancy, then it should have been handled right after our match, not a day later. On top of this, that match had a big difference in scores (something like 30 points), and with 4 seconds remaining, the other team had no way to score 30 points.

We tried to challenge the call, but the head referee was very rude about it. We asked if we could view the video footage, and he said no, and that he does not take into account video footage as proof.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 10:57 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseK View Post

A lone Volunteer
There are some volunteers who have their priorities totally out of whack and I wish the other volunteers would take notice to it. Who's the person we can go to with legitimate complaints about volunteers? [*]It's unfortunate that FIRST celebrates its mentors so much, yet there's no avenue for them to bring to FIRST's attention that ONE GUY is undermining it.
Dennis Howland, Volunteer Resources Manager, FIRST HQ, dhowland[at]usfirst[dot]org, 1-800-871-8326. This is public information.

There was also an overall volunteer coordinator for the event. I don't want to publicly broadcast his info, so I will pm.

Addition: If there is an issue with a volunteer during the event, seek out one of the divisional volunteer coordinators. This year they were wearing light blue shirts. Can find them through pit admin.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:00 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman View Post
THIS!

The MASSIVE backlog of humanity at the main pit entrance, trying to return to the pits following the opening ceremonies was ABSURD (luckily, I found a path less traveled).

...
Agree.

The opening ceremonies ran long, then a huge mess trying to get out of the dome, and then to run into that crowd... ridiculous.

Travis, the path less traveled was probably the same that I took: nearer to the FTC pits. No crowd, no problems.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:07 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

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Originally Posted by nuggetsyl View Post
The Biggest negative I saw this year was in the newton Division you needed a step stool to go to the men's bathroom.
THIS! I actually saw a Lego Leaguer walk in, take one look at the urinals, say "uh oh", and leave.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:10 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman View Post
FIRST, do yourselves a favor, FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES!
The cynic in my says that at this point, nothing prevents the GDC from changing next year's rules to the exact opposite of what they are this year. Perhaps we'll be fortunate for this one specific rule given all of the mayhem that happened.




Thanks for the info Jenny.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanN View Post
My only negative besides the one's already mentioned was the referee call to rematch one of our matches a day after the match.

Apparently there was a 4 second time discrepancy. I never noticed it on our match, but I did notice it on another match on Curie (in the dome Friday).

If there really was a 4 second time discrepancy, then it should have been handled right after our match, not a day later. On top of this, that match had a big difference in scores (something like 30 points), and with 4 seconds remaining, the other team had no way to score 30 points.

We tried to challenge the call, but the head referee was very rude about it. We asked if we could view the video footage, and he said no, and that he does not take into account video footage as proof.
With 4 seconds to go, 30 points is a stretch.

What about with 14 seconds to go? What if a team thought they had a lot of time to get to the minibot pole, only to find that the minibot race was already over? If one team gets 1st and 2nd, that's a 25 point advantage MINIMUM (more if the opposing alliance didn't get to deploy if time ran out while the clock they were looking at read 4 seconds).

Anyway, I wasn't involved in that match but with the ridiculous amount of points for the minibot race, 4 seconds is HUGE when minibot points are separated by miliseconds.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanis View Post
Did anyone else notice that the floor in the stadium stands was incredibly sticky nearly everywhere?
It got all over my sneakers and it's almost impossible to get off... I suppose it's good if it eliminates the risk of slipping, but it's still kind of gross.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:28 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanN View Post
... We tried to challenge the call, but the head referee was very rude about it. We asked if we could view the video footage, and he said no, and that he does not take into account video footage as proof.
Ryan,

I am not trying to justify the issue. However, regarding video replays, he was prohibited from reviewing it even if he wanted to:

Quote:
<T04> The Head Referee has the ultimate authority in the ARENA during the competition, but may receive input from additional sources, particularly Game Design Committee members, FIRST personnel, and technical staff that may be present at the event. THE HEAD REFEREE RULINGS ARE FINAL! The referee will not review recorded replays under any circumstances.
Regards,

Mike

Edit: I am sympathetic to the ref in cases like this because I was head ref on one of the fields at VEX Worlds a few weeks ago. VRC had a similar rule in place, <T01>. I had at least 7 teams approach me during the competition with video cameras and I am quite sure that they considered by demeanor "rude" when I dismissed them. However, from my stand point, they were asking me to break the rules. I felt offended and that this was rude on their part...
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Last edited by Mike Betts : 05-02-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:43 AM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotolomi View Post
It got all over my sneakers and it's almost impossible to get off... I suppose it's good if it eliminates the risk of slipping, but it's still kind of gross.
So that explains it. Was trying to figure out what I walked through that smelled like urinal cleaner.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 12:53 PM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by torihoelscher View Post

~Concert was amazing.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I used to run a sound board back in college (http://lnl.wpi.edu/index.html) for coffee house shows and other events, and I could not get over how poorly eq'd the vocal microphones were. All of the pre-recorded stuff sounded fine, and the opening DJ wasn't bad at all (who was he?), but all of the vocals sounded horrible from the 200 level of the stadium, hopefully it sounded better down on the floor, but I can't see how.

...so FIRST has been and continues to be cool, FIRST is now loud, maybe next year we can be THX Ultra2 certified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thx)
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Unread 05-02-2011, 03:01 PM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Quote:
Originally Posted by grambo View Post
Not trying to be argumentative, but I used to run a sound board back in college (http://lnl.wpi.edu/index.html) for coffee house shows and other events, and I could not get over how poorly eq'd the vocal microphones were. All of the pre-recorded stuff sounded fine, and the opening DJ wasn't bad at all (who was he?), but all of the vocals sounded horrible from the 200 level of the stadium, hopefully it sounded better down on the floor, but I can't see how.

...so FIRST has been and continues to be cool, FIRST is now loud, maybe next year we can be THX Ultra2 certified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thx)
oh i understand. my team and I were on the floor and the vocals were overwhelmed with bass that shook the life out of you! It was still amazing besides the vocal issue!
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Unread 05-02-2011, 03:34 PM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Well, this has been beaten to death, and I wasn't going to continue beating a dead horse, but I might as well get this off my chest.

I knew what to expect regarding the pit fields from reading CD, but our kids did not. I was unable to travel with the team and had to fly in Wed night. I met the team in the hotel for our team meeting, and the kids were excited about the awesome practice fields in the pits. I had to be the one to break it to them that those weren't nice practice fields. Those were the fields where we would be playing our first and third day of quals and our elimination matches, if we were good enough. At first they refused to believe me, then they were horrified.

They wanted to know why all four divisions weren't playing in the dome, and couldn't believe Dean would allow an entertainment act to displace the competition. When idols fall, they fall hard.

My feeling is that if there had been adequate seating for these fields, the tradeoff for the concert might have been worth it. But, because the pit field setup was so incredibly botched, our team and others were deprived of one of the promised rewards of attending the Championships.

The setup was so bad that we don't even have video of our pit qualification matches to show to those team members who were unable to watch our matches from the bleachers. At the two regionals we attended, we recorded all the matches in HD, posted some on youtube, and submitted video to the Blue Alliance. At the National Championships, which many parents were unable to attend, of which the kids most would like a keepsake, there wasn't room to set up a tripod in the center of the field.

The kids rightly claimed that even the off-season event we attend is set up better.

I believe that someone at FIRST made a conscious decision to move these fields to the pits to make room for the concert. I believe any of their claims to the contrary are at best disingenuous and at worst flat-out lies. I sincerely hope that FIRST makes changes for next year. But, for our seniors, who worked their hearts out for four years to finally make it to the National Championship for the first time, that comes too late.

As a rookie mentor, who contributed my valuable time, precious vacation days, and approached my employer for sponsorship money to send the team to this event, I feel I have a right to expect that the kids I have sacrificed for are treated as the stars of the show, not shuffled off to the side.

I await the arrival of the official event feedback survey with baited breath.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 04:28 PM
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Re: 2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

Overheard at one of the fields in the pits: "We invited all our sponsors, where are they supposed to sit?"
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