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Unread 04-06-2012, 06:07 AM
fsracer fsracer is offline
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Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

The time and score were removed from the big screen with about a minute to go in the elimination matches at the Long Island SBPLI Regional.

I attended the Boston and NYC regionals and do not recall this practice.

To my knowledge, we were not informed of this change at any of the if many meetings we were required to attend.

I wonder what the fans and coaches of a major sport such as football, hockey or basketball would think if the score and time were removed from the field displays with two minutes to go.

Our team congratulates the red alliance on their regional win, but in the second match of the finals, we went to attempt a triple, but with out the time or score, we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:05 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by fsracer View Post
The time and score were removed from the big screen with about a minute to go in the elimination matches at the Long Island SBPLI Regional.

I attended the Boston and NYC regionals and do not recall this practice.

To my knowledge, we were not informed of this change at any of the if many meetings we were required to attend.

I wonder what the fans and coaches of a major sport such as football, hockey or basketball would think if the score and time were removed from the field displays with two minutes to go.

Our team congratulates the red alliance on their regional win, but in the second match of the finals, we went to attempt a triple, but with out the time or score, we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137
I can understand your frustration to a degree, but you keep referring this happening as a "practice", but from what I've heard it sounds more like a mistake than an intentional happening. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:18 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

It was happening at the Colorado regional as well. a little tip: the time is shown on clocks on both sides of the field.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:18 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

The FMS console allows the operator to select between many different types of audience screens. Just video, video with score and timing overlayed (using chroma keying), final scores, alliance selection screens, tournament bracket, Rebound Rumble logo, scrolling sponsors, etc. On top of that there is often a secondary video switch somewhere in the line. The FMS operator has a lot to do; simply forgetting to put up the right display before each match is the most likely explanation.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:24 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

The same thing happened at the Troy District; and for every match if I remember correctly. I don't think it was a mistake if it happened multiple times at multiple events.

Personally I think that it was done to make the end of the game more tense and unpredictable. When the score was up on the board all I had to do was add the bridge points on to get a winner. Now I'm just guessing until they post the final scores.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:35 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Originally Posted by JosephC View Post
The same thing happened at the Troy District; and for every match if I remember correctly. I don't think it was a mistake if it happened multiple times at multiple events.

Personally I think that it was done to make the end of the game more tense and unpredictable. When the score was up on the board all I had to do was add the bridge points on to get a winner. Now I'm just guessing until they post the final scores.
He wasn't talking about after the end of the game. He said it happened with one minuite left. Big difference! Are you saying that what happened at Troy was that the score screen was absent most of the time during the matches?
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:37 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

SGRECO,
We happened to have been on that alliance and I too was frustrated by the removal of the score and time from the screen. We, meaning "I", didn't even realize that our coach was somewhat relying upon it to gauge his time to triple balance. The 30 sec. horn was not enough time for our alliance partner to leave the other side of the field and come to our side to be in the middle of the two of our robots.
The very first thing Sat. morning the three of our teams felt that we could triple balance and practiced it on the practice bridge. We did it twice in under 15 seconds each. We then decided that we would try to select each other and hold it for the finals if we ever made it. No other team pulled it off or tried it until the semifinals (at our regional)
Well, luck would come our way and the three of us were partnered and won the first 5 matches in the finals. We weren't relying upon the clock until then, however, as scoring was all that was necessary to win. For the triple we needed the clock and it was then that we realized that they were pulling the clock from the screen--I assume to heighten the excitement of the "unveiling" of the winning score.
No matter what happened on the score board, we were outscored by the other alliance two times in a row and they deserved to win--no excuses!!!!
They were scoring machines who out scored us. Kudos to them and we'll see them at the Nationals.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 07:46 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

To clarify what was actually happening....the score and the sliding time bar at the bottom of the big screen was removed, intentionally, prior to the end of each match. It was there and then it was removed. I understand that the FMS operator has a lot to do, but this was not an act of omission. He had to add this to his actions for this to occur.
If it is happening at other regionals (it didn't at NYC), then I think there should be a standardized format announced so that teams could plan better.
Yes, there are timers on either side of the field, but the coach said that he never thought to look at that because he only glanced to the big screen occasionally when necessary.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 08:32 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

As a coach on the field, I do rely on the score being posted on the screen. At FiM Districts the screen is typically on one side of the field or the other, so if you are say the Blue Alliance you have to turn around to see it.

Only one time this season has the score not been displayed when I went to look at it, and that was a qualification match at the Northville District. I went to talk to the A/V guy and he just said it was a mistake for that match. I was not a huge deal, but as the OP said, it does play into how coaches direct alliances.

I typically use the timers in the corners of the field to see how much time is left. The only issue I have had with those are that in the beginning of the year, I kept looking at the right corner...instead of the left, since that was where the timer was last year. I kept wondering why there were 469 seconds left in the match, and it wasn't changing.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 08:33 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

At the North Star elims, it was removed with a few seconds left. It could have been done to decrease the cycle time by readying the final score or add drama by not showing the final score until the end, but I disagree with both of these explanations.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:09 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

I've watched scores get removed mid-match. It definitely seems like it's meant to add excitement for the crowd, but its extraordinarily annoying for people relying on it on the field.
Say you want to decide how many robots you need to get on the bridge for the endgame. You get yourself ready, look up at the score and...... nothing.

I don't think they should do it anymore. Maybe take it down the second teleoperated period ends, so the crowd watching the match will still have the intensity if they miss it, but it's up the whole time players on the field need it.

Imagine you're watching a professional basketball game and suddenly the scoreboard turns off, how annoying would that be?
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:25 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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{snip}
...
I kept wondering why there were 469 seconds left in the match, and it wasn't changing.

Count you blessings, Dan must have thought they only had 67 seconds left.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:33 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

Our team ran into something a little similar at our Niles regional. I made a post here about some thing's that I think would have helped our situation, which would also have helped your's.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...the+sco re%3F

I'd really like to see either/both of the ideas from that post implemented, as I think it would be valuable for teams in exactly your situation. (For those avoiding the link, the ideas were putting a score differential display above the clock at the opposing inbounder station, and putting a score display on the driver station). My thinking is you shouldn't have to look up at the video feed to see the score anyway, that's just bad UI design .

I don't really know where to go with the idea's other than CD, so I'm just trying to find support for the idea and hoping someone at FIRST hears about it.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:40 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

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Count you blessings, Dan must have thought they only had 67 seconds left.
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Unread 04-06-2012, 09:44 AM
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Re: Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

Would hate to play with a rookie if that was the case 4000+ seconds = too long
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