FRC 95 Week 4 Video

[JamesCH95]

The pneumatics system isn't together yet, so some parts are operated by hand.
Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4uZ0Fxe-M

Questions? Comments? Feel free!

[Brandon Holley]

Impressive work so far! I like the carwash.

-Brando

[mott]

Excellent concept...rake the balls up over your bumper and avoid all the bumper rule confusion completely!

However, please review the following thread in detail. It would appear from your video that your appendage (like those of many teams) would be illegal per current GDC rulings.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100696

Hopefully, they'll figure this out...and soon.

Great work and good luck!

[Dave Campbell]

Nice work. Speaking of copy - We plan to use your turret design. Thanks for the pics and video!

[BrendanB]

Excellent concept...rake the balls up over your bumper and avoid all the bumper rule confusion completely!

However, please review the following thread in detail. It would appear from your video that your appendage (like those of many teams) would be illegal per current GDC rulings.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100696

Hopefully, they'll figure this out...and soon.

Great work and good luck!

How is their mechanism illegal? I see it as one solid appendage (see the solid bar that goes across the bottom. I see that rule that you can't have multiple appendages that come out connected by surgical tubing, zipties, or string and have some smart team say, "Well, it is one appendage because it is connected".

Great design we worked with a similar design for ball pickup but couldn't get a roller over the bumper to work but your car wash roller is amazing! We settled for a hopper on the ground that flips up like yours.

Can't wait to see this at BAE and CT!

[wilsonmw04]

Excellent concept...rake the balls up over your bumper and avoid all the bumper rule confusion completely!

However, please review the following thread in detail. It would appear from your video that your appendage (like those of many teams) would be illegal per current GDC rulings.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100696

Hopefully, they'll figure this out...and soon.

Great work and good luck!

They have two cloth pieces attached to a bar. Neither of them are outside the robot at the same time. Looks legal to me...

[johnr]

It's sad that we even have to question the legality of this appendage. I believe it is legal, however let's look at it the way some people are reading the rules. If that solid bar is welded right to the edge of the side plates it should be legal. If it is bolted thru the side plates that means there is some part of the side plate, let's say 1/8" that passes over the perimeter first making it illegal. I can't believe i'm even thinking about this still.

[JamesCH95]

Excellent concept...rake the balls up over your bumper and avoid all the bumper rule confusion completely!

However, please review the following thread in detail. It would appear from your video that your appendage (like those of many teams) would be illegal per current GDC rulings.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100696

Hopefully, they'll figure this out...and soon.

Great work and good luck!

The first part to exit the frame perimeter is the tubular cross-piece, keeping us legal.

Thanks everyone! We're going to keep pushing to get all the pneumatics setup and hopefully be fully operational by the end of the week.

[mott]

I also hope this kind of set-up is eventually cleared as being legal but it was really the pieces of "cloth" on the spinning axle that caught my attention. If it's possible for any piece of those flaps (or the outermost perimeter of the hardware to which they're attached) to break across the plane of the frame perimeter before the axle of the spinner crosses the frame perimeter it would (by current GDC rulings) be illegal during that brief period during deployment that the axle hasn't yet crossed the frame perimeter.

The bar at the bottom that crosses the frame perimeter first has nothing to do with it.

I agree that it's ridiculous to still have to be considering this but until we see something different from the GDC, I see no responsible option but to keep it in mind.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed!

[JamesCH95]

I also hope this kind of set-up is eventually cleared as being legal but it was really the pieces of "cloth" on the spinning axle that caught my attention. If it's possible for any piece of those flaps (or the outermost perimeter of the hardware to which they're attached) to break across the plane of the frame perimeter before the axle of the spinner crosses the frame perimeter it would (by current GDC rulings) be illegal during that brief period during deployment that the axle hasn't yet crossed the frame perimeter.

The bar at the bottom that crosses the frame perimeter first has nothing to do with it.

I agree that it's ridiculous to still have to be considering this but until we see something different from the GDC, I see no responsible option but to keep it in mind.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed!

You're right, we'll definitely keep an eye on that.

Though I'm confident our mechanism obeys the rules' spirit, there is always the lawyering... :yikes:

[sgrinde]

Another rule you may consider is [R35]. Can your number be seen on all four bumpers?

[wardawg]

Another rule you may consider is [R35]. Can your number be seen on all four bumpers?
I agree, this rule is what i was thinking makes this design illegal. My team cant see a way around that with their current design. hope you guys can figure out a way around that.

[Laaba 80]

cool idea. How well do the balls go from the top of the robot into the tower while the robot is moving?

[Peyton Yeung]

Is that another 5 bar shooter? Looks good.

[its da PAT!!!]

Is that another 5 bar shooter? Looks good.

Please tell me what a 5 bar shooter is?

[Peyton Yeung]

Please tell me what a 5 bar shooter is?

It's what they did in 2006. 5 roller bars to shoot balls.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/bc5/bc550a8d57347f2edfb6bf3d8a423941_m.jpg

[its da PAT!!!]

See that makes since you were missing a word. lol:cool:

[JamesCH95]

Is that another 5 bar shooter? Looks good.

Yes it is, and thanks!

cool idea. How well do the balls go from the top of the robot into the tower while the robot is moving?

Gravity, so far. We're considering other options and possibly adding another roller or guide as we test. We've increased the slope of the 'funnel' as of last night and it has worked pretty well so far.

[TerryS]

Innovative way to pick balls up. Have you considered what will happen to your mechanism if you have a head on collision as you and your opponent race to pick up the same ball? Looks like it's pretty beefy so my guess is that your mechanism will survive. I might be more concerned that your roller jumps over the opponent's bumper and damages something on their robot. Per rule [G27] you could be penalized or yellow carded regardless of your intent.

[G27]
Deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent Robot on or inside its Frame Perimeter is not allowed. Violation: Technical-Foul and potential Yellow Card

High speed accidental collisions may occur during the Match and are an expected part of the game. Robots place mechanisms outside of the Frame Perimeter at their own risk; no penalties will be assigned for contact between two such extended mechanisms.

A Robot with a mechanism outside of its Frame Perimeter may be penalized under this rule if it appears they are using that mechanism to purposefully contact another Robot inside its Frame Perimeter. Regardless of intent, a Robot with a mechanism outside its Frame Perimeter that causes damage to another Robot inside of its Frame Perimeter will be penalized.

Repeated or egregious violations of this rule will earn the offending Robot a Yellow Card.

I guess you can avoid this situation with careful driving.

[JesseK]

Terry has a good point. But man, the car wash mechanism isn't anywhere in the realm of stuff we thought of. It's kind of like 45's ball intake from the late 90's, where a spinning roller spat a ball vertically into a catcher net, which then fed it to the conveyor. If you can't find a better way to funnel while driving, maybe a net will help.

[JamesCH95]

Innovative way to pick balls up. Have you considered what will happen to your mechanism if you have a head on collision as you and your opponent race to pick up the same ball? Looks like it's pretty beefy so my guess is that your mechanism will survive. I might be more concerned that your roller jumps over the opponent's bumper and damages something on their robot. Per rule [G27] you could be penalized or yellow carded regardless of your intent.

[G27]
Deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent Robot on or inside its Frame Perimeter is not allowed. Violation: Technical-Foul and potential Yellow Card

High speed accidental collisions may occur during the Match and are an expected part of the game. Robots place mechanisms outside of the Frame Perimeter at their own risk; no penalties will be assigned for contact between two such extended mechanisms.

A Robot with a mechanism outside of its Frame Perimeter may be penalized under this rule if it appears they are using that mechanism to purposefully contact another Robot inside its Frame Perimeter. Regardless of intent, a Robot with a mechanism outside its Frame Perimeter that causes damage to another Robot inside of its Frame Perimeter will be penalized.

Repeated or egregious violations of this rule will earn the offending Robot a Yellow Card.

I guess you can avoid this situation with careful driving.

Thanks.

We have considered what sort of hits front rollers can survive, and it might bend, but we'll bend it back.

The side plates on the carwash are designed to cradle the lowest possible bumper configuration, so protrusion into a legally-bumper'd robot should be a non-issue. We plan on driving very carefully also, of course.

Terry has a good point. But man, the car wash mechanism isn't anywhere in the realm of stuff we thought of. It's kind of like 45's ball intake from the late 90's, where a spinning roller spat a ball vertically into a catcher net, which then fed it to the conveyor. If you can't find a better way to funnel while driving, maybe a net will help.

Just put a net on tonight! In addition to a better 'funnel' geometry to guide the balls into the base of the tower. We are still considering a secondary roller to help push everything into the tower.