Tips from a veteran Robot Inspector

[Wayne Doenges]

Now that we are getting near robot completion it is now time to do some self inspection of said robot.

1) Go through the Robot Inspection checklist.
2) Be sure Main Breaker is where anyone can reach/see it. If your robot starts to smoke, during a match, wouldn’t it be nice if someone can quickly shut down your robot without having to hunt for the OFF switch?
3) One wire per Wago slot.
4) Confirm proper wire gauge, per application, per breaker.
5) Sharp corners. Remove them. I don’t like seeing blood, especially my own :ahh:
6) Place air pressure gauges where they can be seen clearly.
7) Confirm any appendage cannot go further than 14 inches.
8) Bumpers. Use ¾ inch thick by 5 inches tall plywood, 8 inch minimum length. I have seen teams use ½ inch thick plywood and have to rebuild all their bumpers at a regional before they were allowed to play. Don’t be that team.
9) Bumper Zone is 2 inches to 10 inches.
10) Battery securely contained in robot. I have seen too many robots, during a match, dragging their battery.

At the regionals:
1) Don't wait till the last minute to have your robot inspected. You will avoid the rush from the other teams who waited till the last minute.
2) Don't get mad at the inspectors if they ask you to make some changes. They are only trying to help you have a great regional experiance.

[engunneer]

8) Bumpers. Use ¾ inch thick by 5 inches tall plywood, 8 inch minimum length. I have seen teams use ½ inch thick plywood and have to rebuild all their bumpers at a regional before they were allowed to play. Don’t be that team.


I took a look at what my students had cut so far for the bumpers and caught this exact problem yesterday. Thanks for the reminder list!

[eddie12390]

10) Battery securely contained in robot. I have seen too many robots, during a match, dragging their battery.


I second this. Last year we made the mistake of not securing our battery before an Elimination match and it was thrown from the robot about 20 seconds in.

[Taylor]

Now that we are getting near robot completion it is now time to do some self inspection of said robot.
--snip--
At the regionals:
1) Don't wait till the last minute to have your robot inspected. You will avoid the rush from the other teams who waited till the last minute.
2) Don't get mad at the inspectors if they ask you to make some changes. They are only trying to help you have a great regional experience.
If your robot isn't complete on Thursday, you can still get a partial inspection. For a big part of the day, there are usually a few inspectors standing around, looking for something to do. Grab one, have him/her look over your robot, cross some things off the checklist, perhaps the inspector can give you insight on simple ways to improve your design or make it compliant. Then, when you're complete and ready to go, you can finish the inspection and be ready to play.

We do this regularly; it gives us a chance to have a fun, relaxed interaction with the inspectors. They've given us lots of tips - both design and strategy.

Inspectors, referees, field crew, administration - they're all good people, and they've all been in your position before. Take the time to make good relationships with them. It'll pay in spades.

[Kevin Sevcik]

10) Battery securely contained in robot. I have seen too many robots, during a match, dragging their battery.Thirded with emphasis. Also, anything that's elastic doesn't count as secure. We lost the '07 Great Lakes Regional for 1114 because I assumed another mentor purchased a proper battery strap and it turned out to be elastic. After technical difficulties in Semi 1, we went out in Semi 2 without a bumper that covered our battery. All that was holding the battery in was this elastic strap. Someone hit us hard enough to rocket our battery out of the robot and there goes what should have been an epic trophy for my team.

[Karibou]

2) Be sure Main Breaker is where anyone can reach/see it. If your robot starts to smoke, during a match, wouldn’t it be nice if someone can quickly shut down your robot without having to hunt for the OFF switch?


Quoted for truth. That little breaker gets exponentially harder to find when you're trying to turn the robot off quickly while still being conscious of the safety issue at hand. Print off the nice, red-and-white striped sticker from FIRST and put it on before the competition, and everyone will be happy.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Now that we are less than a week to Stop Work Day, (and since a new Inspection Checklist was released last night) it is time to remind all teams that robots need to be inspected before all competitions. As it appears that many teams are choosing pneumatics this year for some functions, let's start there.

1. The compressor used to charge the robot storage system must be an FRC legal compressor controlled by the Crio. If you choose to keep your compressor off-board, it still must operate under Crio control and all other robot rules must be followed.

2. Valves must meet the max volume spec of 0.32 Cv per R71.

3. Components may not be modified. This includes painting, grinding to remove weight, etc. You may remove the pin from a cylinder as long as the cylinder itself is not modified in the process.

4. Tubing can be a maximum of .160 ID and all tubing must carry a working pressure rating of 125 psi.

5. Working pressure must be supplied through one primary Norgren regulator at 60 psi. Working pressures less that 60 psi can be supplied through additional regulators downstream of the primary regulator.

6. The pressure relief valve is not calibrated from the factory. You must adjust it to open at greater than 125 psi. This can be accomplished by bypassing the pressure switch and adjusting the valve while monitoring the high pressure gauge. Be sure to tighten the locking collar and test again.

7. The pneumatic system will be checked during the "Power On" test portion of the Inspection Checklist on p2.

Please have several of your students and one mentor assigned to checking over the Inspection Checklist prior to sealing the bag next Tuesday. It will save you considerable time at your events. Remember that when you inspect early, you get to go into the practice fill in line and get some extra practice time on the field.

One quick reminder...The rules have changed this year for maximum size of the operator console. This is due to the ball return's size in the driver's station.

[R82]
The Operator Console must not exceed 44 in. long by 12 in. deep (excluding any items that are held or worn by the
Drivers during the Match).

[MrForbes]

2. Valves must meet the max volume spec of 0.32 Cv per R71.

Are all previous year KOP valves considered legal?

[Tristan Lall]

Are all previous year KOP valves considered legal?Doubtful. The 0.32 CV requirement is new enough that several years' KOP valves likely have not been vetted by FIRST. Also, inspectors are not typically provided with documentation for KOP valves, especially from previous years.

The best protection is to bring the manufacturer's documentation for the valve.

[Wayne Doenges]

11) If you are using a chain be sure to put a guard over it, if there is any chance someone can get aan appendage caught in it ::ouch::

[Cal578]

This is all great advice. It is so importance to go through the checklist yourself, before build season is over. So, here's the official checklist:
1) Go through the Robot Inspection checklist (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2012_Assets/2012%20FRC%20Inspection%20Checklist%20Rev%20B%202-14-12.pdf).

And, because there's been so much discussion about bumper length:
8) Bumpers. Use ¾ inch thick by 5 inches tall plywood, 8 inch minimum length.
The 8" does not include any plywood in the corner (overlapping another bumper). You must have 8" from the vertex (corner of the frame perimeter).

I hope this helps. Good luck, everyone!

[Nirvash]

Print off the nice, red-and-white striped sticker from FIRST and put it on before the competition, and everyone will be happy.

Do you have a link to this? I don't remember seeing it on FIRST's site.

[wireties]

What about protecting the shooter wheels? Our gears are relatively inaccessible but one could stick their hands into the wheel. Any comments or suggestions?

TIA

[engunneer]

Clearly marking it as a dangerous area (caution tape or Yellow/Black stripes) is better than nothing if some sort of physical guard is not possible because of other constraints.

[nitneylion452]

What about protecting the shooter wheels? Our gears are relatively inaccessible but one could stick their hands into the wheel. Andy comments or suggestions?

TIA

IT would be tough to prevent people from putting their hands in the wheel without actually hindering the ball's path out of the shooter. I would do with enguneer's recommendation and put some caution tape or warning sign near the shooter. Like what you see on a lawn mower reminding you that blades moving at however many RPM can be hazardous to the well being of your fingers. :D

[wireties]

We are assembling our shooter - it sits on a what looks like a 17" dia gear. In some places this gear gets close to the plate under it. If one got a finger under it or near the gear (on a AndyMark gear motor) that drives the turntable, it could hurt you. So my question is - will a robot inspector likely make us cover this area for safety reasons?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Keith and Joe,
The best answer would be to protect as much of the shooter (or any moving parts) as best you can. Field resetters, judges and refs aren't always robot team members.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Next installment in the Al's Annual Inspection list. Thanks to Wayne for getting it started this year.

Bumpers.
Ok bumpers have been around for a while, they change a little every year but they are here to stay. You must satisfy all the bumper rules, not just selected ones. So here goes...
1. They must be backed by 3/4" thick plywood, 5 inches high. If you are not able to get 3/4" in your country then the nearest metric equivalent is OK. Pine boards and MDF are not allowed.
2. You must have two, vertically stacked 2 1/2" pool noodles. Color is not a consideration but they must not be modified by inserting round bar stock to add weight or shaped in any fashion to allow better functionality for your robot. Exception to this rule below.
3. Bumpers must be covered in strong fabric of red or blue color, closely matching the colors of the First Logo. 1000 denier nylon is recommended. You will need to change colors depending on which alliance you are assigned in any match. This means you either have a method of changing colors on one bumper system or you have two bumpers systems, one blue and one red.
4. You may add a 5" long piece of pool noodle in a vertical orientation to cover the corners of your bumper system. This is to insure that no hard parts of your robot or bumper is capable of contacting another robot or field parts. You may miter the corner pool noodles to accomplish this protection. See Fig 4-6 in the robot manual.
5. Bumpers must attach firmly to the frame of your robot, be able to be easily removed or mounted and all parts of the bumper system must remain inside the critical 2" to 10" above a flat floor. All sections do not need to be at the same height but they all must remain inside the bumper zone when mounted.
6. Bumpers need to have your team number displayed on four sides of your robot. The numbers need to be 4" high, 3/4" stroke and readable from a distance. Team numbers need to be white in color or outlined in white. If you are doing well, you want other teams to know who you are.
7. Small gaps behind the bumper system are allowed due to boltheads, fasteners and welds. However, bumpers only work when backed up by robot structure. So small spaces can be bridged by the bumpers but nothing greater than 8" long. See Fig 4-7 of the robot rules.
8. With this year's game, many teams will design their bumpers to have openings for appendages or ball handlers. That is OK as long as all exterior vertices are covered with a bumper section (backing board) of at least 8" in long on both sides of the vertice.
9. Your bumpers will be weighed separately at inspection so remove them but bring them with your robot to the weigh and size station. One complete set of bumpers must weigh less than 20 lbs. Both sets need to be weighed if you have a red and blue set.
10. Securely fastened to the robot frame means threaded fasteners, cleavis pin attachment or some other rigid form of attachment. Zip ties, duct tape, rubber bands or velcro do not meet the requirement of secure fastening.
There are several questions about bumpers on the Q&A forum, I suggest you search 'bumpers' on the forum and read them. You can find it here...
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Questions.php

[nitneylion452]

We are assembling our shooter - it sits on a what looks like a 17" dia gear. In some places this gear gets close to the plate under it. If one got a finger under it or near the gear (on a AndyMark gear motor) that drives the turntable, it could hurt you. So my question is - will a robot inspector likely make us cover this area for safety reasons?

For that I would definitely cover it with some sort of shield. I thought you were initially referring to the wheels of your shooter. For the safety of your team and the event volunteers, I would protect the area.

Al,

As far as the wheels, which I thought is what he was talking about, it would be difficult to protect them without blocking the ball. I would completely agree, however, that any other area that could be considered unsafe should be covered by something to prevent caught fingers. I'm working field reset this year for the first time and I certainly don't want to be hurt in any way that isn't due to a lack of attention on my part.

[wireties]

For that I would definitely cover it with some sort of shield. I thought you were initially referring to the wheels of your shooter. For the safety of your team and the event volunteers, I would protect the area.


I was - these were two distinct questions. Thanks for the advice on both!

[nitneylion452]

I was - these were two distinct questions. Thanks for the advice on both!

Good. So I'm not going insane...yet:yikes:

[wireties]

Our bot pulls balls in on all 4 sides so we have small-ish bumper segments on the corners. Right now the numbers appear in order but with a gap on each side. Does that sound legal? Or would the complete number appearing across the corner work? The Q&As relevant to R35 are kinda vague. If you inspected our bot, what would you say?

TIA

[EricH]

Our bot pulls balls in on all 4 sides so we have small-ish bumper segments on the corners. Right now the numbers appear in order but with a gap on each side. Does that sound legal? Or would the complete number appearing across the corner work? The Q&As relevant to R35 are kinda vague. If you inspected our bot, what would you say?

TIA
If your number was split between the two bumpers, the Q&A is clear, at least to me. It's saying that you're going to be redoing the numbering to comply with the rules. I really wish they'd put it out in an Update, but it is what it is.

Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules
Q. We have a u-shaped robot, so will have split front bumpers. Can we split the our numbers; say "33" on the right and the "52" on the left or do all of the numbers need to be on one side of the robot? It may be a tight fit with the new number size criteria.
A. Per [R35], team numbers must be clearly visible. This means that they may not be inverted, obscured, fragmented, upside down, etc.

Game - The Robot » Bumper Rules » R35
Q. We are deciding to use a square U frame. So, we have to split the 4th bumper into 2 sections. Because of this, we can't decide how to place "3490" on our Bumper. Should we place the 4 numbers on 1 side, or should we split 34 and 90 across the Bumper. R35 doesn't explain how to handle this situation.
A. Per [R35] team numbers must be "clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 ft, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing Robots." Thus they may not be obscured in any way (disconnected, out of order, rotated, upside-down, mirror imaged, etc). (emphasis mine)

So, no gaps, and I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

[wireties]

Keith and Joe,
The best answer would be to protect as much of the shooter (or any moving parts) as best you can. Field resetters, judges and refs aren't always robot team members.


We put something like a "sneeze guard" all the way around the gear - should be safe now. Thanks for the advice guys!

[wireties]

So, no gaps, and I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

It is quite the quandary - it seems the remaining options do not leave enough room for numbers that are the correct size! The GDC did say that the numbers should be visible every 90 degrees and the rules did NOT say that means front, right side, rear and left side.

"The requirement is that the numbers be viewable from approximately 90° intervals around the Robot. There is no requirement on exactly where, within that 90° interval the numbers are."

Maybe numbering around the corner will work... arghhh

[Basel A]

I wouldn't go around the corner, either (too easy to construe as a gap in the number, or the wrong number altogether). But the GDC hasn't been asked about going around the corners yet, so that one might be an interesting one to see what they say.

It seems like it would work as long as you don't have sharp corners (for example, a team that builds wrap-around bumpers instead of separate ones). It does work fine concerning the manual:

Teams shall display their team number on the Bumpers in four locations at approximately 90° intervals around the perimeter of the Robot.

[wireties]

It seems like it would work as long as you don't have sharp corners (for example, a team that builds wrap-around bumpers instead of separate ones). It does work fine concerning the manual:


Ours are wrap around bumpers, maybe this will make the inspectors happy...

[Jon Stratis]

Al already posted a great post on bumpers, but I wanted to re-emphasize it for all teams out there. At a pre-ship scrimmage today with about 25 teams, over half of them would have had to re-do their bumpers in order to pass inspection. The most common issues I saw:

- Team number. Per the Q&A, you CAN NOT split your numbers - if you have an opening with short bumpers on either side, your ENTIRE team number must be on ONE of those bumpers.
- Bumper attachments - Per the 1-17 update to R33, your bumpers have to be attached at the ends of the bumper. Many teams with 8" bumpers had a single attachment to the frame in the middle of the bumper. With that design, there is a single point of failure and your bumper will fall off. With a single point and a strong hit, the bumper could rotate and not provide the needed protection. Mount them securely!
- Frame Perimeter. Several teams had concave frame segments, which made it impossible to place the bumpers on the frame perimeter.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Jon et al,
If the design of the robot frame is such that bumpers cannot be attached at the ends but are still securely fastened to the frame of the robot, I believe that is the intent of the rule in the above case. On a short bumper section (~8 inches) two attachments may be needed depending on the design, to be "securely fastened" as the rule specifies.
Please keep this thought in mind...your bumpers reflect on your robot design and construction. If they are floppy and falling off, scouters might note that. If you want to play on Saturday afternoon you have to make everything look nice and work well, in addition to performing well. If you want to be recognized, team numbers cannot be ambiguous, split or hard to read. If your design requires a bumper that is only 8 inches long adjacent to an exterior vertex, then design the bumper to add the 5" vertical pool noodle that protects the corner to that bumper segment. Then do your best to make your numbers 4" high and fit into the 10.5 inch width you have. If you were to split your team number XXYY, I will bet some scouter will only write down XX.
It is my belief in the order of priority that the GDC wants 1) readable numbers at a distance, 2) at four locations, 3) 4" high, 4) in white or outlined in white, 5) not split, 6) 3/4" stroke. Unspoken in this rule is this test "readable by your grandmother sitting in the stands and wanting to cheer for your team but she needs to see your team number" and "you know that teams are watching you on the webcast because they are playing you next week and want to know which robot is which."

[Abrakadabra]

Has anyone put together a simple diagram of the preferred (i.e. inspection-acceptable) pneumatics configuration if one is using an off-board compressor? We are in weight-cutting mode, so every 1/4 ounce counts, but I don't want to get to inspection and be required to add back a bunch of regulators and heavy brass connectors.

I have read the Inspection Checklist and searched on CD, but there doesn't seem to be a definitive description of what will or will not be accepted, especially with regard to compressor power path, vent valve locations, and extra valves for safety while transporting the robot with an air charge.

Any clarity would be much appreciated. And a picture is worth > 1000 words.

[Wayne Doenges]

Per the FIRST manual. I hope this helps.
[R73]
Compressed air on the Robot must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, 120 psi maximum working pressure. Off-board compressors must be controlled and powered by the Robot.

If an alternative compressor is used, the team may be required to provide documentation to show compliance with the performance specifications.

The only difference between an on- and off-board compressor is that the off-board compressor is physically removed from the Robot. The intent of this rule is to permit teams to take advantage of the weight savings associated with keeping the compressor off-board. However, using the compressor off-board of the Robot does NOT permit non-compliance with any other applicable rules.The compressor may be mounted on the Robot, or it may be left off the Robot and used to pre-charge compressed air in the storage tanks prior to bringing the Robot onto the Court.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Scott,
The pneumatic rules are very specific on what can be off board if you choose to place pneumatic items off board.
[R73]
Compressed air on the Robot must be provided by one and only one compressor. Compressor specifications may not
exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, 120 psi maximum working pressure. Off-board compressors must be
controlled and powered by the Robot.
Under R74
D. If the compressor is not included on the Robot (under the provisions of Rule [R73]), the regulator and high-pressure gauge may be located on-board or off-board, provided all other pneumatic rules are satisfied.
Note that if the regulator is kept off-board the Robot with the compressor, then only low-pressure (60 psi or less) “working” air can be stored on the Robot.
During Power On testing, you will need to show that the compressor indeed is controlled by the Crio, shuts off at ~120 psi, and meets all other pneumatic rules that apply.

[Abrakadabra]

Wayne and Al -

Thanks for the quick reply. I have just a few points needing clarification:

Assuming that I make a "compressor assembly" that holds the compressor and all the control components that I choose (and are allowed) to be kept off the robot:

- Compressor power will be provided through one Spike, which will remain on the Robot. Power will be provided to the compressor on the "downstream" end of the Spike via a suitable Anderson Powerpole connector.

- We will install one vent valve on the robot and one on the compressor assembly. The one on the compressor will be used to vent the supply line between the compressor and the robot before disconnecting. I assume this is the purpose of the "additional vent valve" specified on the Inspection Checklist, correct?

- We will keep the high pressure gauge and regulator on the robot in order to maximize on-board air supply. However, can I assume that it is okay to keep the mechanical compressor relief valve on the compressor assembly, because the only time we run the risk of overpressurizing the system is during filling? I.e. Can I ignore any overpressurization that might occur in my system due to ambient temperature changes after fillup? (In reality, I would assume the system would cool down, not heat up.)

- Likewise, can I leave the Compressor Control Pressure Switch on the compressor assembly if I make it obvious that the signal cable to the Digital Sidecar must also be plugged in when filling, thereby insuring full control by the cRio? After all, if the pressure switch circuit is left open, the cRio will not allow the compressor to run, correct?

I can see arguments for a "no" answer on either of the last two above, but I don't believe they are specifically covered in either the Rules or the Checklist. If the answer to all of the above is yes, then we would have three connections to make between the robot and compressor assembly:
1. air
2. compressor power (most likely a suitable Anderson powerpole product)
3. digital signal cable from the pressure switch to the sidecar

Sorry to be so detailed, and I realize the weight savings may be irrelevant in the overall scheme of things, but I would just like to do it right (and safe!).

Thanks!

[Kris Verdeyen]

Al et al,

I noticed a problem with the inspection checklist linked above, and I'm not sure how to report it, so I figured I'd kick it up to you and Wayne.

Under the custom circuits section of the electrical checklist, it says:
Custom Circuits, Sensors and Additional Electronics - may not connect to the cRIO’s serial or Ethernet 2 ports (except
in compliance with R53.B), cannot directly control speed controllers, relays, actuators or servos,.. <R47, R59-62, R65>

Rule R65 actually says:All outputs from sensors, custom circuits and additional electronics shall connect to only the following:
...
E. the RS-232 DB-9 RS-232 port on the cRIO,
...


Probably something that will be fixed before week 1, but it does seem significant.

[Bill_B]

Abrakadabra,
The pneumatic system can also get pressurized if an actuator is moved by its mechanical linkage being thwacked during a collision, for instance. Since you're going with off-board compressor, I presume that your actuators are not very big, so this isn't necessarily a problem for you. But you know rule makers. Cover the whole spectrum of possibility, if possible. I would put the relief valve into the robot's circuit even if the rules didn't require it. See [R72]

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Kris,
I will check into this. The incongruity comes from the attempt to compress everything into one check item I believe. I thought I had everything cross checked. Thanks.

Scott,
The relief valve is intended to vent on the off chance of a control failure and the compressor runs continuously. The rule states it must be attached to the compressor through suitable brass fittings. The Thomas compressor can run up to 150psi before it's seals bypass.
The high side gauge may be located off board if you wish.
The pressure switch may not be located off board. This was allowed in the past but was changed for this year. The intent is that it accurately senses the stored pressure on the robot so it works in your favor to keep it on the robot.
The Spike must remain on the robot.
The thought behind this rule is that an equivalent loss in functionality is the consequence for the weight savings in removing the compressor.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

In honor of stop build day...
Today is the day to stop working on your competition robot. Midnight local time on Feb 21.
1. By midnight you should putt your robot into the bag and seal it, complete your robot lock form including the seal number(s).
2. Bumpers may be bagged separately if you choose.
3. Do not lose the form and be sure you have it handy when you arrive on site for your competition. You will need this form for every event you attend through the Championship.
4. For some teams who have been given permission to ship their robots by First, you will follow the instructions for crating and shipping from First in addition to bagging the robot prior to crating.
5. Do not lose the form. Your inspection team will sign off on your form and instruct you as to when you may cut the seal and open the bag.
6. If you lose the form, you will need to follow additional steps to complete a non-compliance form. This form requires three signatures in addition to the team's info and signature. Inspectors are very busy and it may take a while to receive all the required signatures on the form. You may not open the bag and begin work or practice on your robot until instructed to do so after the non-compliance form is complete.
7. Don't lose the form, don't leave it with someone who is not coming to the first day of the regional event, don't leave it on the bus or back at the hotel if you want to maximize the time you will have to work on the robot or practice.
8. All robots must be inspected before they are allowed to participate in matches. Those robots that are inspected early may enter the fill-in line during practice and get some needed extra practice time. You do not need to be inspected to practice but you may be prevented from taking the field if your robot has any safety issues that need to be addressed. Some events require at least a cursory safety inspection as you queue for practice.
9. As discussed above, inspectors will need a BOM to be displayed during inspection. You may show this on a laptop or by hard copy. Please make the print large enough for older people to see and read.
10. Please get some rest and relaxation. To those of you in Week One events, good luck. Your competition is only 9 days away.

Happy Punchki Day everyone. Don't eat too many.

[Squillo]

We have an exemption to crate/ship our 'bot. Can we put the lockup form (signed) into the crate (but outside the robot bag(s))? I guess what I'm asking is, will we need the form in our possession to claim or open the crate, or can we open the crate, take out the form and hand it to the inspector before opening the bag(s)?

Seems to me to be a good way to ensure that we don't forget to bring the form.

[artdutra04]

Abrakadabra,
The pneumatic system can also get pressurized if an actuator is moved by its mechanical linkage being thwacked during a collision, for instance. Since you're going with off-board compressor, I presume that your actuators are not very big, so this isn't necessarily a problem for you. But you know rule makers. Cover the whole spectrum of possibility, if possible. I would put the relief valve into the robot's circuit even if the rules didn't require it. See [R72]This should not happen if your pressure regulator is functioning properly. If a pneumatic cylinder is set to a working pressure of 45psi and it gets manually depressed by some impact or other impetus, the pressure regulator will vent anything over 45psi from the low pressure side out to atmosphere.

The 125psi relief valve is there in case the pressure switch fails and the compressor unknowingly keeps pumping air into the system.

[AngelBob]

2) Be sure Main Breaker is where anyone can reach/see it. If your robot starts to smoke, during a match, wouldn’t it be nice if someone can quickly shut down your robot without having to hunt for the OFF switch?

This is our problem. According to a veteran programmer, our plans never seem to include the position of the Main Breaker and it always winds up in some random place. This time it's definitely visible... but behind a sheet of lexan. Aaah!

[ratdude747]

This is our problem. According to a veteran programmer, our plans never seem to include the position of the Main Breaker and it always winds up in some random place. This time it's definitely visible... but behind a sheet of lexan. Aaah!

cut a "mousehole" in the lexan, big enough to provide hand room.

[cgmv123]

Does a Xerox of the lockup form count or does it have to be the actual signed form? It would seem prudent to make copies in case it gets lost.

[Jaxom]

cut a "mousehole" in the lexan, big enough to provide hand room.

And please remember that all hands are not the same size; small hands fit in large holes but not vice versa. :)

[Wayne Doenges]

1. By midnight you should putt your robot into the bag and seal it,
If I putt it more than twice do I get a bogey? :D

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I am going to answer a few questions in this post.

First, if you are shipping your robot in a crate, a reminder to everyone, it still must be sealed in a bag and the lockup form is still required. You can ship the lockup form in the crate if you wish. Be advised that when you remove the robot, the venue will take away the crate and you may not have access to it until the end of the event. You need the form in hand prior to a an inspector allowing you to open the seal and unbag your robot. In the absence of an original lockup form, a copy may accelerate the process but the non-compliance procedure may still be in effect. I will try and get an answer on that.

Breakers behind lexan while looking good make it harder for field people to protect your investment. A hole in the lexan needs to be big enough for my hand to go in. Ask anybody, it is pretty big, I can bridge almost an octave and a half on the piano. Much bigger than a mouse. If it isn't easy to turn off we will all just sit and watch it burn and toast marshmallows.

[Wayne Doenges]

If it isn't easy to turn off we will all just sit and watch it burn and toast marshmallows.
MMMMMMmmmmm Marshmallows :D

[Bill_B]

MMMMMMmmmmm Marshmallows :D

Get Peeps to make red white and blue marshmallows in the three Archimedean solids for FIRST. Talk about Dean's Homework!

More on topic, though: Can an extension of the "off" button be made? Labelled properly of course. There's always the trade-off between efficient electrical path battery-to-breaker-to-PDB and accessibility for safety. Additional incentive to not burning is not getting technical foul and red card for field damage. :p

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Bill,
If you are suggesting a push rod that couples to the breaker "off" button there would appear to be no rule that prevents that as long as you are not modifying the breaker. However, it seems that the complexity to make such a device and prevent it from accidentally triggering the breaker off is beyond what is really needed and would take away needed weight needed for other functionality.

[Bill_B]

Al,
The reputation scores don't go high enough to handle yours. If the push rod or lever had a snap-over in the vein of fire-alarm boxes, inadvertent tripping could be minimized. I'm sure you've seen those hoods for toggle switches that reduce the chances for accidental operation too. I think our switch is in a good place this year, but there is some sentiment for having a cover for the control board. I'd like to preserve the access and noticeability for the switch in case they go wild with decorations. thanks again for this and indeed all your advice.

[johnr]

I looked thru the inspection check list and didn't see anything about appendages being deemed legal during inspection. Will appendages be checked to make sure they adhere to rules and wether they obscure team numbers on bumpers?

[ratdude747]

And please remember that all hands are not the same size; small hands fit in large holes but not vice versa. :)

Breakers behind lexan while looking good make it harder for field people to protect your investment. A hole in the lexan needs to be big enough for my hand to go in. Ask anybody, it is pretty big, I can bridge almost an octave and a half on the piano. Much bigger than a mouse. If it isn't easy to turn off we will all just sit and watch it burn and toast marshmallows.

By "mousehole" I was referring to shape, not size.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Bill,
I was thinking about the rod vibrating while the robot drives around. I know that a couple of good taps on the button is enough to open the breaker.

John,
Appendages are checked in the second to last line of the Mechanical section. Teams either have to demonstrate that the appendage(s) is under mechanical or software control to prevent it from extending beyond the 14".

[wireties]

By "mousehole" I was referring to shape, not size.


Last year our breaker was easily reached (a baseball glove could go through the access 'hole') and easily visible from the top of the bot but the inspector made us move it to the exterior.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Keith,
We cannot make a judgement on this decision but there is no rule that indicates the breaker has to on the exterior of the robot. It needs to be easily accessed by a human and impossible to reach by a robot.

[wireties]

Keith,
We cannot make a judgement on this decision but there is no rule that indicates the breaker has to on the exterior of the robot. It needs to be easily accessed by a human and impossible to reach by a robot.


I wasn't looking for a judgment, just warning that some inspectors take the accessibility rule to extremes. I thought the move was ridiculous - still had to move it to play.

[IndySam]

I wasn't looking for a judgment, just warning that some inspectors take the accessibility rule to extremes. I thought the move was ridiculous - still had to move it to play.

If you have doubts about an inspectors call then ask the head inspector. Remember inspectors are great guys but we all make mistakes. Even Al :)

[Wayne Doenges]

Eye nevr' maek misteaks

As a rule of thumb, if the breaker can be seen and easily accessible, then I have no problem. I may ask you to make up a sticker or use red tape indicating the switch location.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Remember inspectors are great guys but we all make mistakes. Even Al :)

When?

No really Sam is correct. Please do not start making a major change without checking. You may have misunderstood or we may have not communicated correctly. I remember telling a team that they had to change a #18 to a #14 since it was used in a particular way. The team interpreted that suggestion as all wiring needed to be changed to #14. It was my fault for not checking that they understood and their fault for not asking. I won't make that mistake again.

[PayneTrain]

Quick Question: If bumper covers cause the bumper zone to go up to 10.25", would this need t be rectified? the plywood and undercover do not exceed the 10" zone.

[engunneer]

Quick Question: If bumper covers cause the bumper zone to go up to 10.25", would this need t be rectified? the plywood and undercover do not exceed the 10" zone.

Yes. Bumper covers are part of the bumper and so must be under 10".

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Now that we have had a few days of rest after stop build...
I feel refreshed.
Next installment to Al's Annual Inspection Thread, electrical. There is so many things that have changed and so many that remain the same.

1. All parts of the electrical system must be visible for inspection and on field diagnostics. Inspectors will need to see wires leaving the PD, breakers, speed controllers and motors. They will check for proper connection of the 5 volt regulator that feed the wireless access point. Power connections to the Crio, analog module, solenoid module and Digital Side Car must also be checked.
2. All indicators on the electrical system must be visible. Inspectors will check the LEDs during the 'power on' test for faults. There are three LEDs on the PD and the DSC, LEDs on the Crio and radio and the RSL if not lit must be checked on the DSC.
3. Wire size, the rules provide for the wire to be sized to the breaker. If you are using a 40 amp breaker, the wire can be a minimum of #12 or metric equiv.
4. Motors are a real challenge for us this year. More motors than ever before with certain motors from previous years and ARA available motors are all legal on the 2012 robot. Inspectors need to be able to identify these motors. If you are using motors from an ARA local outlet, you will need to show the paperwork that these were obtained through the legal source.
5. Custom circuits need to be checked for wiring, to insure they are properly supplied power, do not control loads directly or affect power pathways.
6. Insulation is required for the Crio and camera to prevent the battery from being connected to robot frame. The robot frame must be isolated from power.
7. Wiring colors will be checked. Red/white/brown/black w/stripe for +24, +12, +5 VDC supply wires and black/blue for supply return wires. Sorry, no exceptions.
8. One and only one wire per WAGO terminal. For multiple sensors that can be powered by one output, you may use a terminal strip or suitable splice/junction that is insulated.
9. All battery terminals must be insulated and any electrical connections that are not protected from other robots should also be insulated. We want you to play.
10. Battery must be securely mounted. Wire ties do not count. Secure belting, clamps, structural designs that prevent the battery from falling out are all legal and desirable. If you battery comes out, you will be disabled. Protect your battery, it is the lifeblood of your robot. There will be many robots tip overs, hard hits, falls off the bridge, etc.

[jhill0914]

A few days ago, Kris Verdeyen asked a question about an incongruity between the inspection checklist and rule R65.E - the rule says that teams may use the DB9 serial port on the cRio, but the inspection checklist says they may not. Has any progress been made on getting this rectified? We built a fairly significant subsystem on our robot to communicate with the cRio on the serial port based on rule R65. I'm assuming that the rule would take precedence over the inspection checklist, but I'd hate to get to the competition and find that we are in violation. Your thoughts?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Jeff,
we are currently working on resolving that issue on the checklist. The rule takes precedent. It is difficult to get everything on the checklist and get it under two pages long.

[Alan Anderson]

7. Wiring colors will be checked. Red/white/brown/black w/stripe for +24, +12, +5 VDC supply wires and black/blue for supply return wires. Sorry, no exceptions.

I would have expected items from the Kit of Parts to be permitted, but "no exceptions" means powering sensors or servos using the supplied PWM cables is prohibited. The +5 supply wire on the female-female one is black and the return is either red or white, and the extension cables have either brown or orange as the supply return.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Alan,
R45 relates to constant voltage power supply and exempts outputs of relay modules, speed controllers, or sensor outputs. Good catch.

[cgmv123]

Wires that are part of legal devices are also exempt from the guage and color rules. Our LED ring would be illegal without that rule.

[Gary Dillard]

So in regards to this Q&A response:

Rule R13C allows exclusion from total cost of "items ever distributed to the team via FIRST Choice". May a team exclude the cost of an item listed in FIRST Choice but which was not available for distribution due to limited quantities in stock?

No.

Do we need to provide evidence of what we received from FIRST Choice? Or is that just going to be convered under the signature that everything on our robot is per the rules?

[Wayne Doenges]

I was going through the robot checklist and I found another item that is sometimes forgotten.
Team Name - Prominently and proudly display the team’s school name and primary sponsor(s) name/logo <R04>
Your sponsors have donated money so you can build a robot. Shouldn't you show your appreciation and place their name on your bot?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Gary,
I am going to hazard a guess that the GDC responded to this question with the assumption that the team was asking could they get the exclusion if they obtained the part from somewhere other than First Choice. That is what jumped to mind when I read the response a second time. The team could not obtain the part through First Choice as it was a limited quantity item so they found it somewhere else and paid for it from that source. Under those circumstances I would agree that the part needs to be costed out on the BOM.

[Gary Dillard]

I guess since I'm the one who posted the question here's where I'm coming from. When earlier in the season I asked the question about the Van Door motor not being allowable since it is from FIRST Choice and not listed as a legal source, the answer I got was that it was in a prior year's KOP so it was legal. So if I put the one I got from FIRST Choice on the robot it's free, but if I put the one on from a prior year's KOP I have to account for the cost? How exactly would you like me to track which one I'm using - we have never made a distinction between original parts and spares, but this sounds like it makes a difference where you got at least your first one.

[PAR_WIG1350]

I guess since I'm the one who posted the question here's where I'm coming from. When earlier in the season I asked the question about the Van Door motor not being allowable since it is from FIRST Choice and not listed as a legal source, the answer I got was that it was in a prior year's KOP so it was legal. So if I put the one I got from FIRST Choice on the robot it's free, but if I put the one on from a prior year's KOP I have to account for the cost? How exactly would you like me to track which one I'm using - we have never made a distinction between original parts and spares, but this sounds like it makes a difference where you got at least your first one.

as long as you are only using the quantity which you obtained from First Choice, then I would imagine you can account for the cost assuming they are from FIRST choice. If I had an AM 9015 burn out and bought an exact replacement from AM but still only used the quantity that came in the kit (one), would I really have to account for the cost of that motor? What if this happened in the middle of a competition? Would you have to re-submit your BOM even though the parts on your robot haven't changed? What if you went to another competition after that? Right?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Gary,
We don't track spares on the BOM. With this rule...

The following items are excluded from the total cost calculation:
A. items listed on any KOP Checklist (qty is limited to the total listed in the most recent checklist),

I would say if it was listed on a previous year's KOP checklist then it is excluded.

[ratdude747]

I would say if it was listed on a previous year's KOP checklist then it is excluded.

That's what I was thinking too... that's how it has worked for other things in the past.

[Gary Dillard]

Gary,
We don't track spares on the BOM. With this rule...

The following items are excluded from the total cost calculation:
A. items listed on any KOP Checklist (qty is limited to the total listed in the most recent checklist),

I would say if it was listed on a previous year's KOP checklist then it is excluded.

I missed that change in the rule, that is a huge difference from past years.

Thanks Al.

[PayneTrain]

If that's the case, would we not have to count any of our CIM motors because we are using the motors from last year's KOP?

[Mark McLeod]

Quantity is limited to the most recent list.
So the first two CIMs are free.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Remember that the GDC in the Q&A covers items that are previous KOP that have been modified prior to the 2012 season.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Now that week 1 is under the bridge (pun intended) let us take a look at some additional items.

This weekend it seems that bumpers continue to be an issue. Regardless of previous year's rules, the minimum bumper segment must be 8" long and be supported by robot frame. The ends may not extend past robot frame and be unsupported. In other words, if you have constructed your robot frame to be 6" wide on either side of a ball handler opening in your frame, this is an illegal design. The frame and bumper must be a minimum of 8" and the bumper must be fully supported by the frame (except with certain exceptions listed in R33) You cannot have a 6" frame segment with an 8" bumper segment mounted to it allowing the bumper to extend beyond the frame.

Numbers on the bumpers must be in four places and four only. The team numbers must not be segmented or split across an opening or across two bumper segments. The GDC has ruled on this and is very clear in how teams are to implement the rule and how inspectors are to judge the bumper design.

While inspectors will not rule on appendage usage, we will inspect for the distance outside the frame that any appendage can travel during a match. If you appendage is capable of extending beyond 14 inches and has some limit in place (either mechanical stops or software) then they will check that during inspection as well.

Rev C of the Inspection Checklist was issued on Tuesday. This will be the version used at events except if an updated checklist is issued.

I would like to remind everyone that modification of motors is only allowed for very specific reasons...
R49
Motors, servos, and electric solenoids used on the Robot shall not be modified in any way, except as follows:
A. The mounting brackets and/or output shaft/interface may be modified to facilitate the physical connection of the motor to the Robot and actuated part.
B. The electrical input leads may be trimmed to length as necessary.
C. The locking pins on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and 262100-3040) may be removed.
D. The connector housings on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and262100-3040) may be modified to facilitate lead connections.

Please note that this does not allow modifications to motors or integral transmissions even if the manufacturer supplies a mod kit. It does not allow the removal of integral transmissions to use the motor only.

I hope all teams participating in Week Two events have a great time.

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't think that the four and four times only number can be stressed enough. I saw a team at Gull Lake in Eliminations competing with the number five times.

[Wayne Doenges]

I'll add what I saw at the Smoky Mountains Regional.

I saw several breakers that were hard to get to. One team had their breaker inside a plexiglass box. I asked them how they turned on their bot and they told me they remove the front bumper, remove the two screws holding the lid down and then turn on/off the switch. I got them to put in a hole in the side of the box.
Also, please go over your pneumatic schematic and be sure everything is in it's place. Just saying.

Also, I had fun at SMR. Ed was great to work for.

FYI, only use one tag on your bagged robot :D

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Also, I had fun at SMR. Ed was great to work for.

There is a reason I have Ed as a division lead at Champs.

[sandiegodan]

This weekend it seems that bumpers continue to be an issue. Regardless of previous year's rules, the minimum bumper segment must be 8" long and be supported by robot frame. The ends may not extend past robot frame and be unsupported. In other words, if you have constructed your robot frame to be 6" wide on either side of a ball handler opening in your frame, this is an illegal design. The frame and bumper must be a minimum of 8" and the bumper must be fully supported by the frame (except with certain exceptions listed in R33) You cannot have a 6" frame segment with an 8" bumper segment mounted to it allowing the bumper to extend beyond the frame.
I had a question on this as we had lots of issues with this in San Diego this past weekend. Since there is no 8" minimum frame requirement on it's own, it would make sense to me that if an 8" bumper carried it's own continuous metal backing and could be securely attached to the frame, that would constitute a legal system? Providing it met weight of course.

We were specifically making teams extend their frames causing substantial rework and missed matches. Not to mention modifications to ball retrieval systems. I will be inspecting at 3 more competitions and I'd like to offer some better alternatives to teams for being in compliance and ensure consistency throughout the competition season.

Thank you,

[pfreivald]

I saw several breakers that were hard to get to. One team had their breaker inside a plexiglass box. I asked them how they turned on their bot and they told me they remove the front bumper, remove the two screws holding the lid down and then turn on/off the switch. I got them to put in a hole in the side of the box.

I do have to say, teams that attend the Rochester Rally every year (hosted by Team 1511) have a great benefit: FLR's chief inspector, the wonderful (and extremely tall) Rob Heslin gives every robot a quick once-over to make sure that the most egregious faults are identified prior to Bag and Tag. Our bumpers were good, but our pneumatics needed modification...

[Duncan Macdonald]

I don't think that the four and four times only number can be stressed enough. I saw a team at Gull Lake in Eliminations competing with the number five times.

Did the world end?:D

#1 thing I wish was a non issue this year.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I had a question on this as we had lots of issues with this in San Diego this past weekend. Since there is no 8" minimum frame requirement on it's own, it would make sense to me that if an 8" bumper carried it's own continuous metal backing and could be securely attached to the frame, that would constitute a legal system? Providing it met weight of course.

We were specifically making teams extend their frames causing substantial rework and missed matches. Not to mention modifications to ball retrieval systems. I will be inspecting at 3 more competitions and I'd like to offer some better alternatives to teams for being in compliance and ensure consistency throughout the competition season.

Thank you,

I inspected Alamo this weekend and we were allowing lots of ways to extend the frame, most of the time it was just an L bracket, the rules don't really define how sturdy a frame must be as long it is non-articulated. The most important part is the frame counts to your weight and isn't part of your bumper attachment system which is weighed differently, so having 6 inch of frame with 8 inch of metal backing on the bumper would change where the weight is allocated.

[GaryVoshol]

The most common method of "erasing" the 5th bumper number is to put tape over it. So they exchange one rules violation for another. Is that what we really want?

Allowable bumper materials are plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle reinforcements. Nothing else. Which is why the suggestion of integral metal reinforcement of the bumper itself isn't permitted.

[pfreivald]

#1 thing I wish was a non issue this year.

Part of me agrees, but part of me is happy that they're being (at least mostly) consistent about making sure that teams follow the rules, whatever those rules happen to be.

[Cal578]

Allowable bumper materials are plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle reinforcements. Nothing else. Which is why the suggestion of integral metal reinforcement of the bumper itself isn't permitted.(emphasis mine)

Where in the rules does it say "nothing else"? [R28] mentions some things you must use (noodles, cloth), but does not say "only" or any words like that.

[remulasce]

[R28] begins with "Bumpers must be constructed as follows". If your intended method & materials do not follow, then it is not allowed.

[Jeff Pahl]

Since there is no 8" minimum frame requirement on it's own, it would make sense to me that if an 8" bumper carried it's own continuous metal backing and could be securely attached to the frame, that would constitute a legal system? Providing it met weight of course.


Allowable bumper materials are plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle reinforcements. Nothing else. Which is why the suggestion of integral metal reinforcement of the bumper itself isn't permitted.

The metal backing has been determined to be "fastener" in the past. The reason that a metal backing on the bumper is not considered "frame" is because it's attached to the bumper, not the robot. "Frame" must meet all robot size and weight requirements. It really starts to become a "I need to see the specific implementation" headache, and I'm dreading some of the things we are going to see at Championship with the requisite "But it passed at XXX regional" commentary.

[Cal578]

I don't see why people interpret [R28] to be so restrictive. [R28-B] has the phrase "(e.g. plywood, fasteners, etc)", which clearly opens up other parts. [R28-E] likewise has "All removable fasteners (e.g. bolts, locking pins, pip-pins, etc.) will be considered part of the Bumpers." And [R28-F] mentions "structures", without any definition of a structure or what materials may or may not be used in a structure. When I see "e.g." (==for example) and "etc." (==and so forth), I definitely think the list is not exclusive.

For the record, our bumpers are just made of the standard items. I question this interpretation because I've seen other people post questions about other materials, get told it's illegal, yet I don't see the justification, and I've never actually seen a team have trouble at an official inspection.

[loyal]

If the plywood on a bumper measures 7-7/8" lets say, then when you add on the fabric and noodles, if the bumper now measures 8" would an inspector accept this as a legal bumper? Or think about discrepancies in measuring devices like a tape measure as apposed to a machinist rule. Just asking how exacting will a inspector be? I realize that 7-3/4" is totally to short but where would an inspector draw the line? an 1/8", a 1/16", a 1/32"? zero tolerance? Just asking;)

[rsisk]

If the plywood on a bumper measures 7-7/8" lets say, then when you add on the fabric and noodles, if the bumper now measures 8" would an inspector accept this as a legal bumper? Or think about discrepancies in measuring devices like a tape measure as apposed to a machinist rule. Just asking how exacting will a inspector be? I realize that 7-3/4" is totally to short but where would an inspector draw the line? an 1/8", a 1/16", a 1/32"? zero tolerance? Just asking;)

The inspector should be measuring the frame backing the bumper you are describing to determine if it is 8", then measure the plywood to make sure it is 8" as required by R27. I'll be using an ordinary measuring tape and if it is at 8" according to my tape measure, then I would pass the bumper. I wouldn't consider 7-3/4" to be 8".

[remulasce]

I don't see why people interpret [R28] to be so restrictive. [R28-B] has the phrase "(e.g. plywood, fasteners, etc)", which clearly opens up other parts. [R28-E] likewise has "All removable fasteners (e.g. bolts, locking pins, pip-pins, etc.) will be considered part of the Bumpers." And [R28-F] mentions "structures", without any definition of a structure or what materials may or may not be used in a structure. When I see "e.g." (==for example) and "etc." (==and so forth), I definitely think the list is not exclusive.

[R28-B]
hard Bumper parts (e.g. plywood, fasteners, etc) may not extend more than 1 in. beyond the end of the Frame Perimeter(see Figure 4‑4).

The (stuffinparens) do open up other parts- as an adjective to the collection, "Hard Bumper Parts". Then a restriction is placed upon these "Hard Bumper Parts", which thus restricts all those other parts now included in "Hard Bumper Parts". It does not legalize all hard bumper parts.

If a rule specifically enumerated that all lasers in the bumper must be within 1" of the frame, it would still not legalize lasers.

You may be confused why time was taken to enumerate through these specific parts. For this, see [R28E], which specifically requires you to build something on your own. It's because of this stuff that broader restrictions are necessary.

Basically, everything in the bumper must be exactly as proscribed, except for that one part in which you must design your own mounting system. This could include hard parts (plywood, fasteners, etc), so there had to rule limiting hard parts. But because the rule proscribes a mounting system, it has to be just a mounting system, even if it seems strong enough to be part of the frame.

[martin417]

Now that week 1 is under the bridge (pun intended) let us take a look at some additional items.

This weekend it seems that bumpers continue to be an issue. Regardless of previous year's rules, the minimum bumper segment must be 8" long and be supported by robot frame. The ends may not extend past robot frame and be unsupported. In other words, if you have constructed your robot frame to be 6" wide on either side of a ball handler opening in your frame, this is an illegal design. The frame and bumper must be a minimum of 8" and the bumper must be fully supported by the frame (except with certain exceptions listed in R33) You cannot have a 6" frame segment with an 8" bumper segment mounted to it allowing the bumper to extend beyond the frame.

Numbers on the bumpers must be in four places and four only. The team numbers must not be segmented or split across an opening or across two bumper segments. The GDC has ruled on this and is very clear in how teams are to implement the rule and how inspectors are to judge the bumper design.

While inspectors will not rule on appendage usage, we will inspect for the distance outside the frame that any appendage can travel during a match. If you appendage is capable of extending beyond 14 inches and has some limit in place (either mechanical stops or software) then they will check that during inspection as well.

Rev C of the Inspection Checklist was issued on Tuesday. This will be the version used at events except if an updated checklist is issued.

I would like to remind everyone that modification of motors is only allowed for very specific reasons...
R49
Motors, servos, and electric solenoids used on the Robot shall not be modified in any way, except as follows:
A. The mounting brackets and/or output shaft/interface may be modified to facilitate the physical connection of the motor to the Robot and actuated part.
B. The electrical input leads may be trimmed to length as necessary.
C. The locking pins on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and 262100-3040) may be removed.
D. The connector housings on the window motors (PN 262100-3030 and262100-3040) may be modified to facilitate lead connections.

Please note that this does not allow modifications to motors or integral transmissions even if the manufacturer supplies a mod kit. It does not allow the removal of integral transmissions to use the motor only.

I hope all teams participating in Week Two events have a great time.


I originally interpreted the rule this way too, but then this Q&A came out:

Q. The Bumper must be 8 inches - Is the length of the Bumper (8 inches) defined by the length of the plywood, noodle, or the robot perimeter? FRC1124 2012-02-19
A. The full length of the Bumper must include all Bumper components required per Rule (R28).

Rule (R28) says:

[R28]
Bumpers must be constructed as follows (see Figure 4‑4):
A. be backed by ¾ in. (nominal) thick by 5 in. tall plywood.

B. hard Bumper parts (e.g. plywood, fasteners, etc) may not extend more than 1 in. beyond the end of the Frame Perimeter(see Figure 4‑4).


C. use a stacked pair of 2-½ in. “pool noodles” as the bumper cushion material which completely covers the plywood. Cushion material may extend up to 2-½ in. beyond the end of the plywood.

D.be covered with a rugged, smooth cloth. The cloth must completely enclose all exposed surfaces of the plywood and pool noodle material. The fabric covering the Bumpers must be a solid red or blue in color. Visually, the red or blue must be as close to the corresponding color in the FIRST logo as reasonable (i.e. to a reasonably astute observer, they appear similar). The only markings permitted on the Bumper fabric cover are the team number (see Rule [R35]).

E. must attach to the Frame Perimeter of the Robot with a rigid fastening system to form a tight, robust connection to the main structure/frame (e.g. not attached with Velcro). The attachment system must be designed to withstand vigorous game play. All removable fasteners (e.g. bolts, locking pins, pip-pins, etc.) will be considered part of the Bumpers.

F. Each set of Bumpers (including any fasteners and/or structures that attach them to the Robot) must weigh no more than 20 lbs.

(Emphasis mine)

So that 2-12 inch extension is part of rule (R28), therefore is part of the 8" required. So the way I read the rule and the Q&A answer, a 6" long plywood back with 2-1/2 inch cushion extension would within the rules.

[Jaxom]

If the plywood on a bumper measures 7-7/8" lets say, then when you add on the fabric and noodles, if the bumper now measures 8" would an inspector accept this as a legal bumper? Or think about discrepancies in measuring devices like a tape measure as apposed to a machinist rule. Just asking how exacting will a inspector be? I realize that 7-3/4" is totally to short but where would an inspector draw the line? an 1/8", a 1/16", a 1/32"? zero tolerance? Just asking;)

If both the frame behind the bumper segment and the plywood part of the bumper are 8" or more, they pass. If they're shorter than 8" I tell them to fix the problem, but if they're within 1/4" or so and haven't figured out that they can ask for the LRI to take a look I'd remind them. If they're a rookie team AND if it's going to be really hard to add the distance I'd be inclined to give them a bit of a break, and would recommend that to the LRI.

And I'm quite happy with the accuracy of my Stanley tape measure, thanks. :)

[martin417]

If both the frame behind the bumper segment and the plywood part of the bumper are 8" or more, they pass. If they're shorter than 8" I tell them to fix the problem, but if they're within 1/4" or so and haven't figured out that they can ask for the LRI to take a look I'd remind them. If they're a rookie team AND if it's going to be really hard to add the distance I'd be inclined to give them a bit of a break, and would recommend that to the LRI.

And I'm quite happy with the accuracy of my Stanley tape measure, thanks. :)

Again, what problem? (ref my post above). The Q&A answer seems quite clear, if the bumper parts are described by (R28) they are part of the 8" requirement. The 2-1/2" noodle extension is described by (R28-C), so is therefore part of the 8". Nowhere does any rule state the the plywood backing must be 8" long.

[Jon Stratis]

Again, what problem? (ref my post above). The Q&A answer seems quite clear, if the bumper parts are described by (R28) they are part of the 8" requirement. The 2-1/2" noodle extension is described by (R28-C), so is therefore part of the 8". Nowhere does any rule state the the plywood backing must be 8" long.

This is the problem:
[R27]

Robots are required to use Bumpers to protect all exterior vertices of the Frame Perimeter. For adequate protection, at least 8 in. of Bumper must be placed on each side of each exterior vertex (see Figure 4‑1, Figure 4‑2, and Figure 4‑3).

You can't count the material in the corner - you need 8" on each side of the exterior vertex of the frame perimeter. That means you need 8" of frame with 8" of plywood and 8" of pool noodles and 8" of durable cloth covering in front of it. That is the absolute minimum length a bumper section can be when attached to the corner of the robot. It can be longer - you can have another 1" of plywood hanging off the end of the frame perimeter (R28B), you can have "soft parts" of the bumper extend another 2.5" past the frame perimeter (R28C), and you can extend the bumper further down the frame perimeter away from the vertex (you can even have the entire length of the frame perimeter covered in bumper if you want!).

People keep trying to lawyer this rule, and have been for a long time now... it's written clearly, and your LRI will tell you to fix it if you have 5.5" of bumper with 2.5" in the corner - argue all you want that it meets the requirements for R27, you won't get your sticker until you fix it.

[45Auto]

Read R27 and R33.

You must have at least 8" of bumper on each side of the exterior frame vertices.

Bumpers must be supported by the structure of the robot, and rigidly attached at each end.

Do you really think you can rigidly attach 2 1/2" of pool noodle to the structure of your robot?

[martin417]

This is the problem:


You can't count the material in the corner - you need 8" on each side of the exterior vertex of the frame perimeter. That means you need 8" of frame with 8" of plywood and 8" of pool noodles and 8" of durable cloth covering in front of it. That is the absolute minimum length a bumper section can be when attached to the corner of the robot. It can be longer - you can have another 1" of plywood hanging off the end of the frame perimeter (R28B), you can have "soft parts" of the bumper extend another 2.5" past the frame perimeter (R28C), and you can extend the bumper further down the frame perimeter away from the vertex (you can even have the entire length of the frame perimeter covered in bumper if you want!).

People keep trying to lawyer this rule, and have been for a long time now... it's written clearly, and your LRI will tell you to fix it if you have 5.5" of bumper with 2.5" in the corner - argue all you want that it meets the requirements for R27, you won't get your sticker until you fix it.



OK, I understand. As I said, I originally interpreted the rule as requiring the hard parts to be 8", but after reading the Q&A and (R28) I re-thought my interpretation. I now see that I should have also re-read (R27). That makes it all clear.

(By the way, our bumpers do comply, I was just trying to understand the intent, not "lawyer" the rules". I hate that term by the way, everyone need to understand the rules in all their nuance, because the GDC rarely answers a question in a way that removes doubt or adds much to clarity.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Martin,
You have pointed out a common mistake when checking the rules. In the case of the Q&A the answer is referring to the bumper. Another part of the rules say that the bumper must be fully supported by robot frame.

[R33]
Bumpers must be supported by the structure/frame of the Robot (i.e. each end of the Bumper must be rigidly attached
to the Frame Perimeter, the gap between the backing material and the frame must not be greater than ¼ in. and no
section of Bumper greater than 8 in. may be unsupported). See Figure 4-7.

It is for this reason, I always add..."all bumper rules must be satisfied".

[Joe Ross]

The most common method of "erasing" the 5th bumper number is to put tape over it. So they exchange one rules violation for another. Is that what we really want?

Allowable bumper materials are plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle reinforcements. Nothing else.

Do you also believe that paint, sharpie ink, and embroidery thread are illegal since they aren't on that list?

[Alan Anderson]

Do you also believe that paint, sharpie ink, and embroidery thread are illegal since they aren't on that list?

<R35> says team numbers must be displayed on the Bumper. It doesn't quite say the markings are considered part of the Bumper, though that much word-warping is probably silly. I'll just say that I believe the markings are not part of the Bumper construction.

[martin417]

Martin,
You have pointed out a common mistake when checking the rules. In the case of the Q&A the answer is referring to the bumper. Another part of the rules say that the bumper must be fully supported by robot frame.

[R33]
Bumpers must be supported by the structure/frame of the Robot (i.e. each end of the Bumper must be rigidly attached
to the Frame Perimeter, the gap between the backing material and the frame must not be greater than ¼ in. and no
section of Bumper greater than 8 in. may be unsupported). See Figure 4-7.

It is for this reason, I always add..."all bumper rules must be satisfied".

Which brings up one of my gripes about the way the GDC answers Q&A. The question was asked clearly. They could have answered the question in a way that actually answered the question and removed all ambiguity. Instead, they answered the question in a way that caused at least one person (me) to re-interpret the rules incorrectly. I understand that they don't want to analyze designs in the Q&A, but they answered the very same question very clearly in the team update from yesterday. Why not do that during the build season?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Martin,
You are not the only one who has complained about the answers. Although this may be of little comfort, please remember that for every question answered the GDC spends a great deal of time discussing the ramifications. It is not a perfect system but it is the only one we have right now. I will pass your message along when I can.

[Gary Dillard]

Hey Al, I just got a note that says I have to take a test in order to be an inspector. Apparently my good looks and quick wit aren't enough to qualify this year.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Gary,
I wrote the test especially for you! No cheating now.

[Jim Wilks]

The test seemed too easy to me.

The completion certificate with last years' Logomotion graphic on it made me laugh.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

OK,
Time for the list after week 2 and you shouldn't be surprised.

The overwhelming biggest problem for two weeks running is bumpers. Every regional LRI has reported large numbers (up to 50% of teams) have some issue with bumpers. Please get the word out to Week 3 regional events and teams that split numbers are not allowed under any circumstances. You can whine, moan and yell but you cannot get us to change our minds. Split numbers will not pass inspection. We are working for the GDC here guys and they have spoken. Please see Team UPDATE - 2012-03-06. This includes full numbers on both sides of an opening. Only one set per 90 degree interval and only four sets total.
Bumpers must be a minimum of 8" length on either side of an exterior vertex and must be fully supported by the frame of the robot. This mean that the bumper may not overhang the frame to satisfy the 8" length rule. Believe me, teams all over the world are managing to get four digit team numbers in the space of an 8" bumper and make them readable. This is a no brainer. Just do it.
Legal motors do not include Globe motors. Several teams at almost every event have shown up with these motors. The AndyMark gear motor is a great substitute for this motor. Painting the motor to try and hide it's identity is also not cool. If we can't identify the motor, you will need to replace it with something we can check against the checklist.
While shooters have not been a real issue so far, we do check for the safety of rotating mechanisms and energy storage from springs and surgical tubing. We want everyone to be safe, especially those on the field like potential sponsors, refs and field resetters.
If you want to make changes to your robot during a competition, please see your LRI prior to making the change. They have the experience to give you advice and counsel you on the legality of your change. When you make a change to your robot, any change, you must request reinspection. There are several rules that cover this and the repercussions are severe in some cases. All teams are subject to a finals inspection prior to eliminations rounds. Most events ask you to come to the inspection area following your last qualifying match to be reweighed with bumpers on and battery out. If your weight matches you first inspection weight, you will usually be passed. If we see something different or your weight is different, you will have to explain what changes you made and show them to inspectors. We can perform random full reinspections at any time during the event including during the finals inspection process.
We want everyone to play but we are expected to hold everyone to the rules.

[JB987]

Is it fair to say that removal of a fabricated component that is broken or not working as designed is a change that doesn't require re-inspection as long as it isn't a required electrical or pneumatic component or one that results in a potential safety hazard? For example, what if a team decides to remove a broken bridge lowering component?

[IndySam]

It's always a good idea to inform the LRI when you make any change.

In the case of removal of an item, getting yourself re-weighed will save troubles at elimination inspection time.

[Gary Dillard]

I think that the problem with the numbers on the bumpers has to do with being engineers and liking symmetry. You can walk down our street and tell which houses have engineers living there - every shrub and flower bed is nice and symmetrical. Looking at a robot with 4 numerals crammed on one side and nothing on the other side is equivalent to scraping your nails on a chalkboard to an engineer. So here's how we solved it; for offseason demos we like to put half red bumpers and half blue bumpers on - it gives a little color flair. We put the team number on the left front red bumper and the right front blue bumper. We "tolerate" the competition time when we're asymmetrical and we meet the rules, then the entire rest of the year we can be content.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Joe,
When you remove a damaged component with the intention of repairing or replacing ASAP then you are repairing your robot and do not need inspection. When you remove an arm or shooter or ramp, with no intention of returning it to the robot, then you are modifying your design. The inspection process is fairly simple for that. An inspector may note that you have removed something large so that when you come in for finals, we will expect a weight change. Some events may ask you to reweigh immediately so they can note the change.
However, if you have a wheeled shooter and pneumatic shooter, for instance, and would like to change from one to the other, robot rules require that both be weighed with the robot at the time of your first inspection.
[R03]
The Robot weight may not exceed 120 lbs. When determining weight, the basic Robot structure and all elements of all
additional Mechanisms that might be used in different configurations of the Robot shall be weighed together.

[Jon Stratis]

Is it fair to say that removal of a fabricated component that is broken or not working as designed is a change that doesn't require re-inspection as long as it isn't a required electrical or pneumatic component or one that results in a potential safety hazard? For example, what if a team decides to remove a broken bridge lowering component?

Even with removal of a component, inspectors still want to take a look at the change. Many times removing a component will leave sharp or jagged edges or holes that could present a safety issue, or pose possible damage to the field, game pieces, or other robots. These types of re-inspection take only a couple of minutes, and will save you hassle Saturday when you get re-weighed for eliminations!

[Jaxom]

The test seemed too easy to me.

The completion certificate with last years' Logomotion graphic on it made me laugh.

Wait a minute! They told us on the FRC forums several weeks ago that had been fixed, after I mentioned it. Just consider it a collector's item. ;)

[Cal578]

...Painting the motor to try and hide it's identity is also not cool...
Did that really happen, Al? It's understandable if someone innocently tries to use a motor they didn't realize was illegal. But painting a motor looks deliberate, and it's extremely disappointing that someone would knowingly break the rules and attempt to hide. That's just cheating, and there's no GP in that.

...They [robot inspectors] have the experience to give you advice and counsel you...
Our inspector at FLR was great, made the robot inspection a very positive experience for the students. And the LRI was awesomely helpful. He went out of his way to help us improve our firmware (2 cameras causing a bit of lag, he showed us how to set the frame rate in the software instead of manually). My hat is off to the inspectors, and the great job they do. I hope Buckeye goes so well.

[pfreivald]

Our inspector at FLR was great, made the robot inspection a very positive experience for the students. And the LRI was awesomely helpful. He went out of his way to help us improve our firmware (2 cameras causing a bit of lag, he showed us how to set the frame rate in the software instead of manually). My hat is off to the inspectors, and the great job they do. I hope Buckeye goes so well.

The inspection team at FLR is awesome; they're a model for what inspection teams should be!

[Grim Tuesday]

The inspection team at FLR is awesome; they're a model for what inspection teams should be!

We couldn't agree more. Rob, the LRI there was incredibly helpful to our team in inspecting our Kinect setup, as well as being an all around awesome person. The whole Inspection team was nothing but helpful, performing the pre-inspection to make sure that everyone got through the process as quickly as possible. Furthermore, when we found out that our bumpers were illegal (Someone cut the pool noodles an inch too short, so they didn't cover the ends), they were wonderful about the whole thing. The worst part is, the Inspectors never get the recognition they deserve: Refs and Field personnel always get seen and applauded by the crowd, as well as Refs sometimes joining the line of Judges high fiving people. Inspectors should be atleast bumped up to that level of prestige, if not higher.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz
...Painting the motor to try and hide it's identity is also not cool...

This team broke several rules:
1) Using an illegal motor
2) Q. Does painting a motor violate rule R49?
A. Painting is not listed as an exception to modifying motors in Rule [R49], so it is not allowed.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Thanks for the great comments on the FLR inspection team. I will pass along your comments. They really made me smile and I am sure Tom will be happy as well.
I have had teams paint legal and illegal parts, batteries, just about anything all in the process to make the robot look nice. Painting or removing the finish on motors are both illegal modifications. Yes it happens, most of us are experienced enough to notice. Someday LRIs may have a an option of taking team members around with us to see some of the reasons that inspections are needed. The majority of issues are really simple mistakes, not reading all the rules, or flaws in memory from years past. But yes, Virginia, there are problems, every event.

[Peck]

Someday LRIs may have a an option of taking team members around with us to see some of the reasons that inspections are needed.

Well, one option might be placing images of stupid mistakes others have made where people line up for inspection or on-line.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz
...Painting the motor to try and hide it's identity is also not cool...

This team broke several rules:
1) Using an illegal motor
2) Q. Does painting a motor violate rule R49?
A. Painting is not listed as an exception to modifying motors in Rule [R49], so it is not allowed.
I would actually rule another way on this, instead of relying on that Q&A. It's the inspector's prerogative to require verification—and if the identifying features of the motor (most notably the serial number) are obscured by paint, the team won't be able to satisfy the inspector. I avoid that Q&A, because there's a flip side to this: what about other kinds of paint that don't exist for the purpose of cheating?

Some years, labelling mostly-unmodifiable parts with paint is allowed. Other years, it's apparently not.1

(This is an implication that verges on the absurd, and I'd be very tempted to take a step down the slippery slope of ignoring absurd rules, in order to bypass this potential issue. What inspector has any desire to cause a team to become irate over illegality of the paint marker they used to label a motor? I actually find myself wishing that FIRST had contradicted itself, or made another statement to the contrary, so that inspectors could instead premise their decision on a negligent misrepresentation or the likelihood of misunderstanding.)

1 I really wish FIRST would think harder about what it means to modify something. This has come up many times before. (And what about ink and tape?)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Peck,
There is not enough room for all of those in just one year. We discuss them on the LRI phone conference so we can get an idea if a trend is forming.

[ianschofield]

Hi All
Have been reading this thread with great interest as a rooky inspector at the Toronto west reg,
Have taken the test got my certificate but not received any further info from first yet. But looking forward to the event I was there last year as a team mentor and had a blast. So can we rookies get some advice from the old hands?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Ian,
I suggest you get in touch with your LRI. They should have a variety of info that can be of use. Please look over the Inspection Checklist. It is laid out so that all you have to do is go through and check each item in turn. The motor section has everything listed that is a legal motor. Talk with students and have them lead you through the process. They want to show off so let them. When anything is in doubt or when an issue arises that confounds everyone, please check back with the LRI. If he can't answer, he has a variety of other people to turn to for info, including the Head Ref, FTA, Chief Robot Inspector and everyone above them if need be. One thing to remember since this happens all the time...Never accept when the team tells you an item passed at another regional. Your regional is the only one that counts.

[Doc Wu]

Hi All
Have been reading this thread with great interest as a rooky inspector at the Toronto west reg,
Have taken the test got my certificate but not received any further info from first yet. But looking forward to the event I was there last year as a team mentor and had a blast. So can we rookies get some advice from the old hands?

Inspectors work in a number of areas. When you get to your regional your LRI may assign you to a particular area, like weighing/measuring, or pair you up with an experienced inspector to get the hang of it.

Remember, there is no shame in saying you don't know the answer to a certain issue. You can always go back and ask the LRI to clarify any issue on a particular robot. Teams will appreciate your double-checking something you are not sure of instead of making an off-the-cuff decision.

Make sure the teams know you are there to help them pass inspection and offer suggestions whenever possible how to make things legal.

This is my second year as a Robot Inspector and it's been very rewarding working with teams in the pits.

[sandiegodan]

I made this quick gage for inspection out of 3/16" plywood. After inspecting in San Diego and fumbling with a tape measure and frequently finding the bumper gage missing from the inspection area, I thought it would make some of the common measurements quicker to check. I made two of them and brought them to Los Angeles and it seemed to saved some time. Interested in any improvements to help with simple checks.

The key dimensions are:
5" wide for legal bumper width
14" long for maximum appendage extension
2" for minimum bumper height
10" for maximum bumper height
8" for minimum bumper coverage at vertices

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12366&stc=1&d=1332224118

I'm scheduled to inspect in Central Valley and at Championships so I should get some good use out of these. Easy to make if anyone sees the benefit.

[Peck]

I made this quick gage for inspection out of 3/16" plywood. After inspecting in San Diego and fumbling with a tape measure and frequently finding the bumper gage missing from the inspection area, I thought it would make some of the common measurements quicker to check. I made two of them and brought them to Los Angeles and it seemed to saved some time. Interested in any improvements to help with simple checks.

The key dimensions are:
5" wide for legal bumper width
14" long for maximum appendage extension
2" for minimum bumper height
10" for maximum bumper height
8" for minimum bumper coverage at vertices

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12366&stc=1&d=1332224118

I'm scheduled to inspect in Central Valley and at Championships so I should get some good use out of these. Easy to make if anyone sees the benefit.

what is the depth of the cutout and why was it chosen. (my gut say it is the depth of legal bumpers but I want to be sure)

[Al Skierkiewicz]

OK,
It's been a wild season so this is my list before Champs. I am sure some of you that are coming to Champs know that something on your robot isn't quite right, was missed by an inspector, or simply you changed and didn't get reinspected. Well, the time has come to make that part compliant with the rules prior to inspection at Champs. So everyone knows, here are some of the things we will be doing, checking for and insuring you correct before match play...

1. All teams must ship their bagged robot in a crate. The first thing you will need to do is open the crate and remove the bagged robot. Have your B&T form ready when crate is opened. We will have inspectors standing by to check your B&T docs and get you signed off as soon as possible. Do not open the bag until released to do so. B&T rules are still in effect.
2. Bumpers have been an issue all season and will be checked again in St. Louis. 8" minimum length for hard parts on either side of an exterior vertex, fully supported by robot frame, with team numbers in only four locations, with no split numbers.
3. While bolt heads, welds and other fasteners can protrude from the frame perimeter, the entire robot including these protrusions still must fit inside the sizing box.
4. If your robot uses any of the ARA motors, be prepared to show documentation.
5. Globe motors are not allowed. You will need to remove them from your robot and replace as needed with a legal motor, i.e. an AndyMark gearmotor, window motor or van door motor, etc.
6. Correct wire size/breaker choice will be checked.
7. As to pneumatics, only an FRC legal compressor may be used to pressurize the robot. The one and only one, legal compressor may not exceed nominal 12V, 1.05 cfm flow rate, it must be controlled by the Crio, powered from the robot battery, filling storage on the robot at either 120 psi or 60 psi (if an off-board compressor option is chosen you may choose to only store 60 psi and save the weight of the regulator).
8. All firmware must be up to date i.e. cRIO image (v43) and DS software Rev 11.30.11.00 or newer and Jag CAN firmware at 99.
9. We will be using Inspection checklist Rev C which follows the Robot Rules Rev B for this event. I encourage all teams to go over the checklist before arriving in St. Louis (read that as today, please).
10. While we hear "but it passed in XXXX" every year, the inspectors have been trained to selectively eliminate that from their hearing database. This is the big show and everything must be tip top!

If you qualified over the weekend and/or are planning a trip to Champs and/or if you were an inspector this year, please sign up for inspecting at Champs in the VIMS Championship section. I need at least 20 more inspectors for Wednesday afternoon/evening and Thursday morning. Thanks to all who have signed up already. This is going to be the biggest Championship ever.

[DonRotolo]

7. As to pneumatics, only an FRC legal compressor may be used to pressurize the robot. The one and only one, legal compressor
<snip>
10. While we hear "but it passed in XXXX" every year, the inspectors have been trained to selectively eliminate that from their hearing database.
One and only one compressor. IF you have a second compressor, even a legal one, you may NOT use it unless you retire the 1st compressor. The unfair advantage of a second compressor is to keep your main compressor cooler and/or to wear less.

It does not matter where else it passed, inspectors always approach it as if it were the first event of the season. Don't even bother saying it.

Inspectors are there to help you pass inspection. Giving them agita (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=agita) is counterproductive.

[sandiegodan]

This is my rookie year as an inspector as well. So far I've inspected in San Diego, Los Angeles and Central Valley in California.

Keeping on the theme of pneumatics, I've seen a lot of relief valves not adjusted correctly even after several competitions. Going to be insisting on this 100% at CMP's.

I've also seen several yellow ring regulators being used as the primary.

Even though both these are clearly on the inspection list, they aren't being checked thoroughly. I assume at Championships we are going to be insistent these are brought into compliance.

Don't get me started on bumpers and numbering ...

[Tristan Lall]

Keeping on the theme of pneumatics, I've seen a lot of relief valves not adjusted correctly even after several competitions. Going to be insisting on this 100% at CMP's.
My guess is that FIRST ordered (or received) a batch of these Norgren 16-004-011 (http://resources.norgren.com/document_resources/pdf/16-004.pdf) relief valves without having specified the preset or the threadlocker (i.e. 16-004-011-Z125). In theory, if you order the right part, they come preset and are not adjustable. It's also possible that Norgren erred.

I've also seen several yellow ring regulators being used as the primary.
Absolutely required and enforceable, yet the rule is utterly useless (and has been forever). The Monnier 101-3002-1 (http://www.monnier.com/92831-catalogbackup.pdf) is rated to 250 lb/in2 maximum input pressure. (And I suspect there's probably a safety factor on top of that.)

It's probably relegated to the secondary position because someone at FIRST panicked when they saw 5–50 lb/in2 on old datasheets, and didn't know that this was just the the range within which the regulator was designed to be adjusted (and moreover, didn't know that regulators rarely fail catastrophically, and that there's a large difference between the rated pressure and the burst pressure anyway). Besides, at some point, Monnier issued an engineering note certifying that the regulators could actually be adjusted through 60 lb/in2 for FRC use, and has since updated their catalogue to match. The 0–100 lb/in2 gauge range tells you what gauge to buy—see later in the catalogue for examples. (Recall that the gauges go on the regulated output ports, not the one input port. This is not a pressure rating!)

Even though both these are clearly on the inspection list, they aren't being checked thoroughly. I assume at Championships we are going to be insistent these are brought into compliance.
That has been typical practice at the Championship. I'd say that (as of a couple years ago) about 30% of Championship teams using pneumatics showed up with the Monnier (yellow ring) regulator or an ill-adjusted relief valve. And they've all been to at least one event already, and the rules on these items have been relatively consistent for about a decade.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Tristan,
Pre-calibrated valves have not been available in the KOP for three years. The procedure is simple enough and the solution is less costly for the KOP.

The Norgren is a holdover from a time when the primary regulator was not adjustable.

And yes, many of the yellow ring regulators were missed during the season. they always are. The Norgren is the one that is entirely black including the base.

The supplies in the KOP are carefully chosen by the KOP engineers. If you think about it, the KOP engineers have a nearly impossible task each year. They have to come up with a cost effective grouping of parts that anyone can use, meet certain acceptable standards for safety, are readily available as spares and are durable enough that they can be used over and over in other robots. All of this in addition to their other duties and the need to sit in on GDC discussions about the game on a regular basis. Thank you Kate and Collin for the great job you do each year.

[Tristan Lall]

Pre-calibrated valves have not been available in the KOP for three years. The procedure is simple enough and the solution is less costly for the KOP.
FIRST says "[t]he valve may or may not have been calibrated prior to being supplied to teams", and has implied in the past that the uncalibrated relief valves were inadvertent. If it's now an intended cost-saving measure (which makes sense), FIRST should simply state that clearly, and link to the adjustment instructions in the manual (for those who lose the ones in the bag).

The Norgren is a holdover from a time when the primary regulator was not adjustable.
Do you mean the Norgren regulator, or the Norgren relief valve? And which regulator wasn't adjustable?

The old Norgren regulator (R07-153-RNEA) used around 2002 (and I believe before that) was of a similar type to the current one (R07-100-RNEA). Incidentally, the Norgren R07-100-RNEA (http://store.norgren.com/us/en/detail/r07-100-rnea/pressure-regulators) (primary regulator, with the all-black case) is a 5–50 lb/in2 adjustable relieving regulator, rated for 300 lb/in2 maximum. It happens to work at 60 lb/in2, but that's outside the manufacturer's specified output range (http://resources.norgren.com/document_resources/pdf/R07IM.pdf).

The supplies in the KOP are carefully chosen by the KOP engineers.
No question about that.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Tristan,
At one time the relief valves came pre-calibrated and teams who have those from previous KOP may not need to calibrate them. Those received in 2010 KOP may have been calibrated or not depending on the lot they came from. The remainder and those shipped in 2011 and 2012 KOP were reported to be not calibrated.
The Norgren regulator was used because it could not be adjusted to anything higher than 60 psi and in most cases was shipped at that setting.