2 Signal lights?

[bakejame]

We were wondering if we can put on two signal lights. I have looked through the rules and it only says that we have to have a signal light. It doesn't say anything about having two. I know we don't need two, but it looks much cooler with two. (They kind of look like headlights.) Can anyone confirm either way on this?

Thanks,
Jim

[FrankJ]

I would expect if you asked the GDC the answer would be only one. Mount it in the middle & call it Cyclops? On the other hand the worse that would happen is your inspector would make you take it off.


The light serves an important function. You should not have a decoration that comes close to what the RSL looks like.

[bladetech932]

i don't know about this year but we had two on our robot last year until at the first regional we were told to remove it. the issue was that the lights were (cause of the wire) on a delay that wasn't noticeable at first but got progressively worse when we started playing practice matches. i don't know for sure but i would assume that this hasn't changed. if your not sure then just put it on and if you gotta remove it then oh well.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

R57 refers to the RSL in the singular use for just that reason. One and one only please.

[EricVanWyk]

i don't know about this year but we had two on our robot last year until at the first regional we were told to remove it. the issue was that the lights were (cause of the wire) on a delay that wasn't noticeable at first but got progressively worse when we started playing practice matches. i don't know for sure but i would assume that this hasn't changed. if your not sure then just put it on and if you gotta remove it then oh well.

I'm a bit confused here. There is nothing in the control system that is aware of how many RSLs are attached, and nothing that could be delayed by the presence or absence of those lights.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

R57 refers to the RSL in the singular use for just that reason. One and one only please.



[R57]

Robots shall use the diagnostic Robot Signal Light (RSL) provided in the KOP. It must be mounted on the Robot such that it is easily visible while standing three feet in front of the Robot.
A. The RSL must be connected to the “RSL” supply terminals on a Digital Sidecar
B. The Digitial Sidecar must be connected to a NI 9403 module in Slot 2 of the cRIO.
C. The RSL must be wired for “solid light” operation, by placing a jumper between the La and Lb terminals on the light per Figure 4‑9.

I see nothing in the rule that prohibits multiple RSLs.

That being said, expect resistance from some inspectors and be prepared to remove the extras should the head inspector require you to do so.

Al, specifically, why would you have issue with multiple RSLs?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Daniel,
I don't. The GDC specifically responded via Q&A on this point last year, one and only one. The rules this year in the singular reflect that decision.

2011 Q&A Response
Rule <R54> permits only one RSL, part number 855PB-B12ME522.

2011 R54 is virtually identical 2012 R57.

The RSL flashes specific codes for use by the FTA so they may assist you to play.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Daniel,
I don't. The GDC specifically responded via Q&A on this point last year, one and only one. The rules this year in the singular reflect that decision.

2011 Q&A Response
Rule <R54> permits only one RSL, part number 855PB-B12ME522.

2011 R54 is virtually identical 2012 R57.

The RSL flashes specific codes for use by the FTA so they may assist you to play.

Thanks for the quick response.

2 years ago we used 2 RSLs and did not have any issues with either inspection nor implementation. Hense my questioning your response.

I did not see the Q&A on this last year, but since it needed a Q&A answer one wonders why they didn't clarify it in the rules this year. I guess it's just a missed continuous improvement opportunity.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Daniel,
There has been a planned reduction of the rules this year and this is one of those that was likely intentional. If you have any suggestions (like adding specifics) please let First know.

[mikets]

Let me step back a bit and ask: why do you need two RSL lights?

[bakejame]

Thanks for all of the responses. I think we are going to go ahead and leave the second one on and see what happens. It is really easy to remove and we do have another spot we can move it to if needed. It just looks so cool with both of them on it.

[rsisk]

Thanks for all of the responses. I think we are going to go ahead and leave the second one on and see what happens. It is really easy to remove and we do have another spot we can move it to if needed. It just looks so cool with both of them on it.

Seems like the worst ever reason to ignore advice from the Chief Robot Inspector for FIRST.

[BioWolf]

wait.
quick question.
so i cant find the minimum AWG for the RSL. can anyone help me?

[Tristan Lall]

wait.
quick question.
so i cant find the minimum AWG for the RSL. can anyone help me?
Q&A said there isn't any (2012 question 386).

Use what's recommended by the manufacturer (http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/12768/229240/229246/229858/tab5.html) for the 855PB-B12ME522 panel signal device: "up to 2.5 mm2 (14 AWG)". I'd avoid going smaller than 30 AWG for solid wire, or 24 AWG for stranded wire, mostly for ease of use; it only draws 60 mA, so capacity isn't a big issue.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Bio,
I usually recommend #22-#18. It is easier to terminate in the screw terminals at the base of the light.

bakejame,
I can guarantee all inspectors will/should share the same opinion, one and only one RSL.

[marccenter]

Darn,

The students found a place to mount 2 - RSL's on Saturday (looks like set of eyes so they thought pretty cool) and we mounted them. Of course, now I read that only one should be used. I guess we can keep 2 mounted and only power one - wonder if that would pass inspection?

[Becca334]

Darn,

The students found a place to mount 2 - RSL's on Saturday (looks like set of eyes so they thought pretty cool) and we mounted them. Of course, now I read that only one should be used. I guess we can keep 2 mounted and only power one - wonder if that would pass inspection?

We had that last year and they still told us to take the 2nd one off. :|
They made it very clear they only wanted one RSL on the robot.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Marc,
One un-powered looks like just one with a failure.

[CalTran]

Would it be too late for you to just go buy 2 LEDs of a different color than the RSL to make your lights? They would then qualify as Non-Functional decorations, as per [R05].

[Mike Starke]

Why are we arguing with the Lead Robot Inspector of FIRST!?

So we can either listen to him now, and not put two lights on our robots.... or he can tell you to take one off when you try and pass inspection. Just don't do it. Save yourself time later.