Timid Drivers

[nitneylion452]

During competition, there are few things more frustrating to a coach than a timid driver. Often the drivers on my team are afraid to really show what they can do with the controls when on the competition field. I was wondering what some coaches do in the heat of the moment to encourage their drivers to let loose and not hold back?

[JamesCH95]

I've found that many times the drivers know everything that can go wrong with the robot, and it preoccupies their mind. Remind them that your team can fix anything they can break and that they need to push the robot to do its best during a match the same way the team pushes themselves to be their best during build.

[R1ffSurf3r]

bumpers are there for a reason. don't hesitate to use them

[davidthefat]

To be honest, yelling seems to be counter intuitive... Yes, I have yelled at drivers, but mostly due to the background noise. They get more withdrawn and timid because they are afraid to mess up.

Just let them remember that there are just very few chances like this. If your drivers are seniors, this will be their last chance to do something like this. Just remind them that there will never be something quite like a FIRST robotics competition. Also, Seniors tend to have the most experience, they know how things roll and they just want to get things done, not saying that underclassmen don't, but just a generalization.

Also, I find that the more aggressive drivers tend to do better. I have been known to be rather bold when it comes to my strategies regarding robotics. My mentality is: just go for it.

[thefro526]

I was told one thing when I was learning to drive way back when.

"A robot can always be fixed - but a match can never be replayed".

It was our Drive Team's Motto in 2007, 2008 and 2009 - anyone who saw me drive in 2009 knows I took it to heart.

Since then, I've told every on-season driver the same thing and have yet to have a problem with a timid driver. To be honest, I only select drivers that have some degree of natural aggression when behind the sticks. Not enough to lose their cool, but enough to put the robot where it needs to be without fear of getting the bumpers dirty. If someone proves that they're not up to putting the robot where it needs to be, they will not make the cut.

[J_Miles]

I'm a four-year senior this year on our team. With our team, drivers have always historically been seniors, and, while it's not a guarantee that this will always be the case, it's very likely in my mind. With that said, our week one event will not be my first competition behind the controls. After the senior drivers graduate each season, our team selects a new drive-team for our off-season events.

Going into the season, now, I've driven at four competitions, and won two. Personally, I think that nerves are something that are difficult to overcome during the competition if one isn't prepared. A lot of it has to do with the student's composure in general. That's not to say, though, that a student driver cannot overcome the nerves. The best thing to do is to get out on the practice field as much as possible. Believe you me, it's a lot easier to be willing to fly around the field when you're actually on the field. Our build facility is one without lots of space, and what space we do have is filled with some expensive equipment that doesn't belong to us...so when we practice in facility extra care has to be taken to make sure nothing gets broken. In that way, getting onto the field has me feeling a lot more "free." Maybe that sort of experience might help. If a student isn't comfortable, get him/her comfortable driving in adverse conditions, so that driving on the actual field feels more natural and even easier.

Truly it all comes down to the ability to handle pressure, to take criticism, and to respond to instruction while still being independent, making quick decisions, and being aggressive. The unfortunate truth is that not all students are capable of driving. The best way of figuring this out, I think, is asking the student for an honest assessment of his or her abilities. If the student feels too nervous, I tend to think he or she would be willing to come out and tell you that he or she isn't comfortable doing it.

[wireties]

Our drivers have a motto -"Drive it like you stole it!". It makes for a long day fixing the robot after most matches but they seem to have a lot of fun!

[akoscielski3]

Get them on the field during practice day. My first ever match last year i was extremely nervous, as i never drove on the competitions field before. (also my controls were backwards -.- ). After my first match on the practice field i started to get use to driving under pressure. It became easy to communicate with my fellow driver and my mentor.

Drivers need to know the robot perfectly inside and out to know its potential. I am the designer of this years robot and the mechanical leader, so i know the robot more than anyone. I know what the limits of it are and what it is capable of. You dont wanna push your robot so far that your always working on it after every match, but you need to know how far you can push it. This year is gonna be awesome to drive! Can't wait!

Last year was my first year driving (gr 10) and i am the driver (with my fellow driver) until I graduate. We think this will benefit the team a lot because we will be use to driving out on the field. I think during my gr 12 year (2013 season) we will start training new drivers to get them use to driving tho.

Good luck :)

[Laaba 80]

Our drivers have a motto -"Drive it like you stole it!". It makes for a long day fixing the robot after most matches but they seem to have a lot of fun!

They used to tell me that, then once they realized I did drive it like I stole it, they changed to "If you lose the match and the robot doesn't come back broken, you didn't drive hard enough." This year, people have started saying "Drive it like Joey."

I do think me not knowing much about the mechanical portion of the robot allowed me to push it to the limit. I knew that if I did anything stupid we had a great group of people that would be able to fix it, although our breakaway robot had a tendency of breaking the field before it would break. That drive team worked pretty well, as I was the lead programmer, and the other driver was one of our head mechanical guys. If anything went wrong during the match we usually had a pretty good idea of what it was.

[DonRotolo]

"Drive it like you stole it!".
"If you lose the match and the robot doesn't come back broken, you didn't drive hard enough."
That's it exactly.

[Lil' Lavery]

Drive through the ball, not to the ball.

[JesseK]

The hardest thing I've had to communicate to drivers is how to take proper angles to catch another robot rather than chasing said robot. It'd help if there wasn't a 100dB speaker right next to the field. Offseason events help alot with building confidence.

[V_Chip]

To quote my drive coach:

"Drive deliberately... I trust you know what to do anyway." :p

[PayneTrain]

We will have a senior reprising his role as primary driver for the third and final time, and I will be serving as primary student coach/strategist for my third and final time. Our human player has played all four years, and our secondary is returning for his second year.

We're a tight group. We're never not at meetings. Our primary is a programmer who knows the limits of the controls, but not what a mechanical person believes to be the limit of the robot. He is the only driver I have seen bullying/pinning teams while on a mecanum drive. Our secondary is very involved with the manipulator, tested it for speed, distance, and accuracy, and knows its sweet spots.

Our primary has said I love the game and FIRST more than everyone on the team combined. I've played around with different math ideas, game breaking, ideal practices, and I go out to other teams to show them how awesome our robots are. Our other coach, who serves with me when I can't make it, has the same kind of passion and literally the same name) as me.

Our human player has the best hand-eye coordination on the team, probably outscoring our robot in 2009, only letting by 1 foul in 2010, and throwing tube onto the robot in 2011. No reason he can't chuck the ball in a hoop in the last 30 seconds, right?

A tight knit, seasoned group of individuals who understand the robot, the mission of FIRST, and the volatile seeding and eliminations rounds.

[Jon Stratis]

Have you tried offering them $5 for every time they bring the robot back broken? :p

In all honesty, we find constant encouragement helps a ton. After the match, don't talk to them about what they should have done - talk to them about what they did well. That will help to build their confidence, which will in turn make them more agressive. Plus, they'll know what they're doing well, and they'll try to do everything else better as a result.

Or, you could just go the route the father of our main driver suggested the other night... give her a shot before every match. I think he was joking. Or I should say hope :D

[kjohnson]

I think the best fix for timid drivers is not at the event, but before. Its hard for rookie teams to do but driving practice with/against other robots is extremely helpful. If you have an experienced driver (or your backup) available let them play defense against your primary driver using a previous year's robot. Observing all game rules while playing stiff defense or helpful offense can help your driver learn about the game and not being scared of hurting your robot or someone else's (bumper zone!).

[Katie_UPS]

"A robot can always be fixed - but a match can never be replayed"

--

If someone proves that they're not up to putting the robot where it needs to be, they will not make the cut.


Quoted for truth.

[ehochstein]

They used to tell me that, then once they realized I did drive it like I stole it, they changed to "If you lose the match and the robot doesn't come back broken, you didn't drive hard enough."



Haha that is what I tell my drivers now! I was our driver in 2009 when we won the 10,000 Lakes Championship, if I hadn't been told that I think Team Titanium would have gotten a few more empty cells that year >.< I enjoyed driving with you!

[NOV8R]

Over forty years ago as a recent graduate engineer my first job had nothing to do with engineering but a lot to do with driving robots. I flew a jet interceptor and was taught a lot of things that translate into the making of a good drive team today. Such things as situational awareness, acm, startegy and tactics and there implementation. The most important thing that I learned then that I teach my students today is to 'think' not 'react'. There's nothing wrong with reaction and it will save your life in a an emergency. The problem with reaction is predictability. So what does this have to do with driving a robot? This past weekend at a scrimmage our robot was pushed by another robot during a match. So what did our driver do? He reacted and pushed back. If he would have thought and known where he was "situational awareness' he would have realized that he was only a few feet from the key and if he would have instead backed up he would have caused the other robot to commit a foul. Sometimes people see timid drivers as weak. I see them as smart and trainable.

[Vikingtech2054]

During competition, there are few things more frustrating to a coach than a timid driver. Often the drivers on my team are afraid to really show what they can do with the controls when on the competition field. I was wondering what some coaches do in the heat of the moment to encourage their drivers to let loose and not hold back?
two words "student robocoach" who can relate to a timid student driver than another student that goes through the same stuff they go through. they understand each other better, and when student robocoachs talk to student drivers i believe it goes better
our team has done it for two years and planning on it this year if it makes a difference.
Through the years we even remember some robocoaches from other teams yelling a bit, just remember its for learning and fun

[akoscielski3]

Have you tried offering them $5 for every time they bring the robot back broken? :p

In all honesty, we find constant encouragement helps a ton. After the match, don't talk to them about what they should have done - talk to them about what they did well. That will help to build their confidence, which will in turn make them more agressive. Plus, they'll know what they're doing well, and they'll try to do everything else better as a result.

Or, you could just go the route the father of our main driver suggested the other night... give her a shot before every match. I think he was joking. Or I should say hope :D

Perfect. This is extremely important! I HATE when people from my team come up to me and ask me why i didnt do this or that. It upsets me and i dont usually do as good the next match. But when they are like "Great job!" I do better the next match.

Important thing also is if you are on a winning streak, don't let it get to your head and get lazy.

[ThaineP]

I "let loose" once in a 2010 match in midfield. Balls did not pass through to the other sides. However, we needed to replace all the chains.

[jwfoss]

notes from our Drivers Training Manual (http://team2168.org/images/stories/OrganizationDocuments/Driver%20Training_8.22.11.pdf) (pg. 13)

1. Drive it like you stole it
1.1. During the build season you will participate in build sessions, as a result you will develop a sense of ownership. This sense of ownership will cause you to tend to want to be careful with the robot while driving/operating. This is the opposite of what we want to do. The robot is built robust for a reason, be willing to push its limits.

1.2. Your job is to drive the robot to win. The pit crew’s job is to fix the robot and keep it in perfect working order so you can perform your job.

[Peter Matteson]

Our drivers have a motto -"Drive it like you stole it!".

I have been saying this for 10 years now to our drivers when they leave for matches. One of our driver requirenments to get picked is utter disregard for the safety of the robot. In 2004 our drive team smashed the robot pretty good to win the Philly regional and we spent all day Thursday at the championship rebuilding it just to be able to play again.

We don't let the drivers hang out in the pits between matches so they don't see what the pit crew goes through when we fix the robot. We fell off the bar at the Championship in 2010 and rebuilt half the drivetrain with our spares between matches without missing a beat, because we prepared for the eventualities of what could happen during that game.

[AlexH]

Be mean to the robot. You can fix it after the match. If it breaks during the match and you were aggressive and affected game flow before it broke, it looks better to other teams than hanging back and not doin anything. But be smart about it, and remember "damage is weakness leaving the robot".

[Tytus Gerrish]

be rid of the timid driver and get an agressive driver.

have a game plan with your aliance.

a coach shouldnt have to say anything but simple directives because the driver should be agressivley folowing the plan.

[Andy A.]

I remind our drivers that the lifespan of a robot is about 45 to 60 minutes of actual match time. Once the season is over the robot is over too, no matter how pristine. So use high gear, use the bumpers, get in pushing matches, hit the walls, take running starts etc. You can usually get away with a lot more abuse then you'd think before something breaks.

Besides, fixing stuff in the pits is fun (although it doesn't really seem it at the time).

[FrankJ]

Broken robots do not win matches.

Colin Chapman (founder of Lotus for you children) felt that a race that did not fall apart at the finish line was overbuilt.

Keith Code (champion motorcycle racer) teaches that you only have so much attention span. So the more you can relegate to reflexes or reaction by practice the more you can spend your limited attention to the unexpected.

Some people will make better drivers than others. Very few natural drivers though. Practice & pre-planning will teach you how much you can push your robot.

[Joe Ross]

They used to tell me that, then once they realized I did drive it like I stole it, they changed to "If you lose the match and the robot doesn't come back broken, you didn't drive hard enough." This year, people have started saying "Drive it like Joey."

Depending on what they call an appendage, a broken robot with a part dangling could get a lot of fouls.

[Madison]

The best thing a drive team has going for it at an event is the polycarbonate driver station wall. That thing, with the noise from the crowd, makes it nearly impossible to hear anything going on on the field. We're a lot more careful with the robot when we can hear the scary noises it's making, but when it's on the field, the thing seems invincible.

I don't want for my drivers to break the robot, but I want to be sure they aren't afraid of it breaking. That is, in my mind, where being a team really becomes important. We all have our roles and, for some, that role is to fix the stuff the rest of us did wrong. If students and mentors own their role and are proud of it, the team is stronger as a consequence.

[fox46]

This reminds me of a quote by P.J. O'Rouke -

"There's a lot of debate on this subject - about what kind of car handles best. Some say a a front-engined car, some say a rear-engined car. I say a rented car. Nothing handles better than a rented car. You can go faster, turn corners sharper, and put the transmission into reverse while going forward at a higher rate of speed in a rented car than in any other kind."

I find a driver who is less in-touch with the mechanics of the machine is usually much more aggressive than one who knows about the aluminum sprockets, the half link between axle #3 and #4, the 7075 aluminum output shafts and other points of weakness. At the same time, a driver who knows of these weaknesses and is aware that the robot will still drive with 8/10 drive wheels, 7075 aluminum is nearly as strong as steel and the fact that we have a pile of replacement parts that can be swapped in a few minutes will likely do even better than the "disconnected" driver. The "informed" driver will also have an idea of how to keep the machine running in "limp" mode and has a more intimate knowledge of the design's capabilities and limitations.

In the end though it cannot be deduced to one characteristic - different individuals are better at driving than others.

[ChristopherSD]

I'm having difficulty understanding why anyone wouldn't "show what they can do with the controls".

[JamesCH95]

I'm having difficulty understanding why anyone wouldn't "show what they can do with the controls".

There aren't a plethora of Type-A personalities in FIRST, at least that's what I've noticed over the decade of my involvement.

[wireties]

Our teams "drives it like they stole it" but our software guys limit the kinds of things that destroy transmissions and motors and appendages (and hopefully tipping over).

It is helpful for the drivers to feel like they can try anything.

[JamesCH95]

Our teams "drives it like they stole it" but our software guys limit the kinds of things that destroy transmissions and motors and appendages (and hopefully tipping over).

It is helpful for the drivers to feel like they can try anything.

This is huge. Software lockouts and limitations that keep drivers from damaging anything are a huge confidence booster. This is part of the reason why F1 banned assists like ABS and Traction Control, drivers were being very aggressive and taking huge risks knowing that electronic assists would help keep them from losing control.

[DominickC]

This is huge. Software lockouts and limitations that keep drivers from damaging anything are a huge confidence booster. This is part of the reason why F1 banned assists like ABS and Traction Control, drivers were being very aggressive and taking huge risks knowing that electronic assists would help keep them from losing control.

Instead, they introduced KERS to help them recover speed :p

[JamesCH95]

Instead, they introduced KERS to help them recover speed :p

KERS should actually make things a little safer, believe it or not. The 'push-to-pass' function of KERS lets drivers have a real attempt at passing on straights and in more controlled conditions, rather than driving like a maniac to pass. Counter-intuitive I know...

/thread derail

[davidthefat]

I'm having difficulty understanding why anyone wouldn't "show what they can do with the controls".

Many people are afraid of failure. I have talked to a lot of team mates that I have urged to try driving, I got a lot of the "I don't want the pressure" or the "I don't want to mess up" response. Driving a robot is always fun, but for some people, the official competition scares them. It just seems as if we were told from birth to never mess up and be perfect. Sometimes, you just have to let go and just enjoy it.

[ChristopherSD]

How exactly do drive try-outs work on your teams?

[kjohnson]

How exactly do drive try-outs work on your teams?

After getting a feel for the robot and controls, we set up anyone interested in driving with a 2:15 drill to simulate match time. Drivers rotate through the drill until we can determine 1 or 2 who are better suited as a drivers.

The key to this setup is to give each driver the same scenario. We accomplished that by pre-loading 2 balls (autonomous), placing 2 balls on the field near the key, and 2 more balls on the bridge. If the driver didn't attempt to gather balls from the bridge in the first 10-15 seconds those balls were removed from play. How each driver candidate handles each scenario factors into our decision on who will be the primary driver.

[Alan Anderson]

She and her fiance (http://kokomotribune.com/engagements/x1669709496/Tymi-Driver-and-Nick-Bailey) are TechnoKats alumni.

Hmm, what's that? Timid? Oh, that's very different.

Never mind.

[Jon Stratis]

How exactly do drive try-outs work on your teams?

We come up with 1 or two drills, and have the drivers go through them multiple times each. This year, it was to gather 3 balls, shoot them, and balance on the bridge. A good combined time for all 3 tasks was somewhere around a minute. We had some drivers that had trouble with each portion - some couldn't gather as quickly as others, some couldn't line up to shoot as accurately, and some had more difficulty with the bridge than others. Each section (and overall) was timed, and plotted accordingly along with standard statistical analysis. In the end, it was very clear who the best option was for the team.

[DampRobot]

Many people are afraid of failure. I have talked to a lot of team mates that I have urged to try driving, I got a lot of the "I don't want the pressure" or the "I don't want to mess up" response. Driving a robot is always fun, but for some people, the official competition scares them. It just seems as if we were told from birth to never mess up and be perfect. Sometimes, you just have to let go and just enjoy it.

This is me. I definitely feel intimidated by the thought of all the effort we put into designing a building the bot being made or broken by every little action I could make driving. I guess driving can be fun, but I'm not very good at it anyway. I have sort of unofficially decided to steer clear of driving (ha!).

[Pun-isher]

Many good points in this thread that I either agree with or even follow to the dot.

To me, being a driver means being the apex predator. A good driver's confidence and competence should shine through their other activities, whether it be school work, fantastic presentation skills, exercising habits or being on a school team (other than robotics). Of course, there are far more factors than that, but quite frankly, the driver has to be the aggressor on the field, whether on offense or defense. Social skills and getting along with older/younger folk are also big pluses. For example, let's say that you are in an alliance with one competent robot around your skill level and an Einstein Vet. Assuming that you would take a secondary role (passing, etc), it is important that the driver is not overcome with jealousy but is rather motivated to show what their robot can do and to become a powerful alliance. The same can also happen if your fellow teammates have a stigma of being the smartest or the most successful in your school. A good driver should not feel as if they will let this person down but see this as a means of furthering your own goals; now, I can drive even more aggressively, as I can count on my teammates to spot anything I didn't spot.

If anything, character is one of the best highlights for a driver, and should be the first bracket for determining a drive team, before moving on to cone drills. From my own views, it is fairly easily to pick up driving, but the best driver is something that must be deep rooted in the individual and then developed through practice and conversation.

[Garrett.d.w]

I am part of the design/ build team, and my job is to build something that I can't break while driving :D.

On a more serious note, we have found it helpful in the past to know how hard you can push the robot before competition starts. This is often reassuring to our drive team. Fortunately, we haven't had the problem of timid driving. Our driver for the past four years has learned how hard to push the robot to get the most out of each match.

When he coaches drivers, he always gives them a step by step plan to each match. This step by step plan calms down the entire drive team (both timid and aggressive) and leads to more successful matches.

If you have a timid driver, I would recommend building a practice drive chassis early in the season and have them drive it into the ground. Also, have a written outline tailored to each match, it lets everyone know whats going on and leaves less things to "heat of the moment" decision making.

[The_ShamWOW88]

As a first year Drive Coach, there has been some good information here, even though I do believe my drivers are going to be great, my goals for the competitions will be to tell them, "it's been a long, rewarding build season and all you need to do is go out there and have a good time, regardless if we win or lose."

Can't wait to see some of you at GSR and Boston and hope everybody has a great time at the competitions.