What's Your Ideal Robot Workspace

[richwong]

Hi All,

Our school is looking into building a new space for our team. I'd like to reach out to the Chief Delphi community and get some ideas for what considerations should be included for this space. What has worked for your team, what hasn't? What would your ideal space look like? What kind of equipment should we plan for? I appreciate all of your feedback.

Thanks,
Rich

[one4robots]

We are currently bordering on persona non grata in our school's woodshop. I would also like to have a dedicated space. At this point, I think my ideal (within the confines of our building) would be the drafting lab.

If I could design a room from scratch, it would have the following characteristics:
1) 12 foot ceilings
2) At least 10 computer workstations
3) Room for a mill, 2 lathes, 2 drill presses, 2 CNCs
4) Room for a small practice area (not necessarily the size of an entire field, but enough space to operate robots.
5) A lockable material storeroom.

Here's hoping we both get what we want!

[Jon Stratis]

As it turns out, our team is in exactly the same situation - the school is looking to build a new STEM center on campus that will house the robotics team, the physics class, and the Engineering class. It will be really nice to finally be on campus. Our first year was in a garage, our second and third years were renting empty areas (only during the build season) in a building downtown (there was a machine shop we could use on the first floor of the building), and now we're in the third year of the school's lease on a rather nice area in that same building (it contains a shop/assembly area, a separate room for programming/PR/group meetings, and a separate, unfinished room for practice).

We're working with them to create a space divided up as follows:
- a typical classroom space, possibly with tables along the walls for computers
- an assembly space with standing height tables - some dedicated for robotics, some for the classwork.
- two shop areas, one for metal, one for wood
- A practice area (which might just be an open carpeted extension of the assembly area) equal to about 1/2 of a field, with a high ceiling (at least 12', hopefully more)

For a few years now we've maintained a "wish list" of equipment that we've been gradually obtaining as funds become available. We're using our current equipment and the wish list to help plan out the size requirements of the shop areas. I believe we're aiming at somewhere around 3000 sq ft for the entire thing.

[Cal578]

Our school is looking into building a new space for our team...
Wow, I'm jealous. How did you get your school to do that? We have a great sponsor who lets us build at their shop, but I don't think anything could be as good as having your own build space at your own school. Assuming you can get good tools, storage space, etc.

Let us know how it turns out!

[czeke]

You are very fortunate. Our school's tech ed department, took space away from us. We're currently using a loft above a small workroom for storage and about 20 square feet at the back of the machine shop, along with our shipping crate. We have no space to store previous year's robots, so we dismantle them, after using them for demostrations and recruiting. The tech ed department doesn't promote us, since they have their own bots-iq team. Hence our team amounts to about 10-12 styudents and around 4-8 mentors.

[richwong]

Wow, I'm jealous. How did you get your school to do that? We have a great sponsor who lets us build at their shop, but I don't think anything could be as good as having your own build space at your own school. Assuming you can get good tools, storage space, etc.

Let us know how it turns out!

Our school is building a new Science wing and promoting a STEM based program. A Robotics workspace would be part of this. What would your ideal space look like?

[richwong]

You are very fortunate. Our school's tech ed department, took space away from us. We're currently using a loft above a small workroom for storage and about 20 square feet at the back of the machine shop, along with our shipping crate. We have no space to store previous year's robots, so we dismantle them, after using them for demostrations and recruiting. The tech ed department doesn't promote us, since they have their own bots-iq team. Hence our team amounts to about 10-12 styudents and around 4-8 mentors.

Sorry to hear about your space situation. I hope it improves.

We currently don't have much space at the school and work off-site at the nearby University that sponsors us.

[Alan Anderson]

I've given this a lot of thought over the years. One thing I'd like to see that the TechnoKats workshop currently doesn't have is convenient restrooms and handwashing facilities. A bigger coat rack would also be good.

We have separate areas in our shop for different activities, but no actual walls between them. I think this is a good thing, as it keeps various groups from getting isolated. It does become a problem when someone is using a noisy tool while others are trying to hold a meeting, but I believe it's a good tradeoff.

[Jon Stratis]

We have separate areas in our shop for different activities, but no actual walls between them. I think this is a good thing, as it keeps various groups from getting isolated. It does become a problem when someone is using a noisy tool while others are trying to hold a meeting, but I believe it's a good tradeoff.

In our current shop, there are windows between the shop/assembly area and the programming/pr/gathering area. It lets us close the doors when we're being loud in the shop, but still allows that open feeling between the different working groups.

[avanboekel]

Our team is getting a new home as well. Currently, we are in an unoccupied jr high school. We have a couple rooms:
-a class room for CAD, programming and business
-a shop with many (7 I think) work tables, band saw, 2 drill presses, chop saw, vertical band saw, lathe, and a counter for tools (power drills, saws zall, dremel, etc.)
-store room for vex, spirit stuff, etc.
-lrc with a high ceiling, and a full practice field.

This, in my mind is ideal. We could deal with a lot less. Not too sure what we are going to do next year when the school opens.

[Trez]

Something like this:http://www.imagesnet.net/data/media/80/F1%20Workshop%20-%20Car%20Assembly%20%28c%29.jpg

[boris1020]

Our team has been through four build spaces in six years, and this one (our new and permanent one) is by far our favorite. Our school district passed a bond issue two years ago that allowed for the wrestling facilities at one of the schools be renovated to robotics spaces for all three high schools. At first we were skeptical about being in a wrestling room, but it has worked out really nicely.

Some of the aspects we like about it:
-It's small. We aren't cramped, but everything is nearby and there's
enough space for machines and division of spaces. It also keeps us from buying
more stuff just to fill it up. When we all meet in one area at once, it starts getting
crowded, which is probably a pretty good size.
-There were no walls. We acquired district surplus shelves as a partition
between shop and office space. We even put down carpet in the office.
-It's air-conditioned!
-The structure is exposed- no ceilings. This allowed us to run speakers
throughout the shop for music. We also speculated hanging a projector.
-Garage door! Most mobile equipment doesn't fit through the front door.
-We have space for a 3/4-ish sized field. It isn't in the same building, but
it's still available.

Things to request:
-Good electrical. Our entire office/CAD area (8 computers plus laptops
and coffeemakers) is all on one breaker- blown fuses have happened.
-Tall ceilings. As a reference, our Logomotion minibot pole only fits in the
highest part of the shop (sloped ceiling/roof).
-Try to make shop as versatile as possible. While definition of space is good,
make sure you can rearrange shop tables for brief robot testing
-WHITEBOARDS. No matter how many whiteboards are floating around, we will
always run out of drawing space.

Best of luck to you in coming years, I hope you enjoy your new space.

[Mk.32]

We are currently working out of a portable in the back of the school.
The best thing about it is it is about 3 class room sized rooms joined with a center al hall way for the most part is just ours. [Some of it is used for storage for other stuff].

One room is the main build area, the other is a small test field, and the 3rd is where we store materials.

The main build area has a few computers and benches. And our tools, manual mill [tiny and old], drill presses, table saws, hand tools etc.
The problems we have is the ceiling is really low [less the minibot pole], the floor since it is a portable isn't very solid, we only have 110v and a lack of good heavy duty machining tools.

Me dream shop would pretty much be a full fledged machine shop. Filled with HAAS CNC/Lathes, Bridgeport Mills, drills, presses, sheel metal sheers/punches and all assorted tools. An lab with computers loaded with Solidworks/MasterCAM. An meeting area with a large table/chairs and a projector, plus lots of white boards. And a place for a full to half sized field, with a high enough ceiling for any game. All in one building with easy access. :D

A guy can dream can't he. ;)

[pyroslev]

We have a couple rooms:
-a class room for CAD, programming and business
-a shop with many (7 I think) work tables, band saw, 2 drill presses, chop saw, vertical band saw, lathe, and a counter for tools (power drills, saws zall, dremel, etc.)
-store room for vex, spirit stuff, etc.
-lrc with a high ceiling, and a full practice field.
.

You summed up most of what I'd want. I'll add to that:
Dining/loungish area. (Someplace quiet away from the work)
A small CNC-esque machine for those small precision parts
Papers solidifying the space as yours (no one able to boot you out)
Security system maybe
And for fun, some of those PC controlled nerf projectile turrets mounted on the ceiling to shock laxing people back to work

[FRC BOTMOM]

Need to have a Dormitory and a mess hall so student can work in shifts. This would be mainly used on the weekends but it would allow for around the clock building.

[Borobo]

you guys are amazingly lucky. Our school sponsors us by allowing us use of the metal shop, but our total storage space amounts to a single 6x9 closet with 16 foot ceiling, which we stack to the very top

[Gray Adams]

One of the most important things I can think of is a carpeted area for at least half a practice field, ideally a full one. It's so easy not to thoroughly test your robot without the right space. We all do what we can with our space, but building is only part of the battle. Testing, breaking, and then rebuilding is incredibly important. We're trying to make space in our shop right now for half a field.

[richwong]

Something like this:http://www.imagesnet.net/data/media/80/F1%20Workshop%20-%20Car%20Assembly%20%28c%29.jpg

That would be the ideal pit...

[richwong]

Thanks for all of this great feedback. I've started a list in Google Docs. It's open to the public, please feel free to edit and contribute: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao1PdzsjkT0EdGNsMW00MXFaeDBaZlMtelZfMFctT FE

Rich

[tsaksa]

Our team currently has very little dedicated space. We can use the metals shop, and part of a fabrication area during build season, but those areas need to be cleaned up each day, and any robot parts or tool cannot be stored there. All of our tools, components, the robot itself, batteries, etc. need to get stored in a less than classroom size area each time we leave. Also, we are required to keep a pathway through the area clear for access to two other areas that need to be gotten to through our area. As you can imagine this makes the logistics of building a robot difficult.

If I could change one thing, it would be to have an assembly area where things could be left out, or at least left in one place during a build. If all the parts, tools, and sub assemblies need to be boxed up and stored in a different area, and the area cleaned up after each build session you can easily loose half of your time transporting and setting up parts and tools at the start and end of each build session. In fact parts can get lost or damaged during this process, and it does not do all the tools any good to get wheeled around through the rain twice a day.

If there is any way to have a secured build area where you can keep some partially assembled components out while working on them, that can be a great advantage. Also having the ability to store your tools relatively close to the assembly area can also save a huge amount of time and effort.

[THE DYNAMO]

Oh my, if only.
our team(2984) workscompletely out of the closet of our schol's ceramics room(which ironically, is designed to be a giant machine shop with a 25' ceiling, grounded work tbles, and mounting holes in the ground for a mill). it is 20' by 20' at the most, with an 8' drop ceiling. there is a stack of tables and a cabinet full of ceramic pots that we cant touch. also, the Cermaics dust gets Everywhere, including my beatiful new electronics layout:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: !
(we are attempting to convince incoming 9th graders that Cermaics is not fun at all and the teacher is mean

[Andrew Remmers]

Abandon Aerospace/Chemical plant :D

lots of fun memories there.

[DonRotolo]

We have half of the old auto shop. It is a lockable room about 30 feet square, with 10 foot ceilings and two small rooms (8 x 8) off the side we can use for storage. We also have access to several classrooms for 'clean' quiet work, plus the tech-ed classroom which has a small lathe, 2 band saws, a sander and a drill press, plus a dozen or so computer workstations.

The post by One4robots covers a lot of what I also feel is ideal.

In an ideal room, there would be spaces for heavy work, light work and clean work. There's not a lot of heavy work, so that space could be a little small, with machinery and some tooling storage. The light work is most of what we do, so plenty of heavy-duty horizontal work table, and a space that is easily cleaned. Tool storage, material storage, and work-in-progress storage, all lockable. The quiet area would be typical classroom setup, with tables instead of desks, plenty of computer connections, and a printer.

Actual square footage will depend on the anticipated size of the team, and whether the quiet areas can actually be other rooms not dedicated to the team - for example, if there was a robotics technology curriculum it could also be taught in there, with access to the other areas as needed by the teacher.

In the heavy area, at least one lathe and one CNC mill would be excellent. Add in a metal-cutting band saw, a drill press and a sander - all with dust extraction - and that would be wonderful.

Good luck!

[richwong]

Abandon Aerospace/Chemical plant :D

lots of fun memories there.

The cake is a lie.

[lauraleeane]

Does anyone have any tips to getting space for robotics? I have tried multiple times to get us more space but currently we have an old office with a drill press. Tips?

[Cal578]

If I could change one thing, it would be to have an assembly area where things could be left out, or at least left in one place during a build. If all the parts, tools, and sub assemblies need to be boxed up and stored in a different area, and the area cleaned up after each build session you can easily loose half of your time transporting and setting up parts and tools at the start and end of each build session. In fact parts can get lost or damaged during this process, and it does not do all the tools any good to get wheeled around through the rain twice a day.
Our team has had a different experience. We used to build in a large church basement, where we were allowed to leave virtually everything out during build season. It was great for the first couple of days, but soon everything was spread out so much that we couldn't find things. Sometimes things went missing or got broken from being left out.

A couple years ago, we moved to a new build space provided by our sponsor, but were required to clean up every day. That sounds like a pain, but the discipline has really benefited us. We built a storage cabinet for each subteam, 4x4x6' on wheels, hinged to open into two halves with easy access to all the storage totes and shelves inside. The robot itself is allowed to sit on its cart during construction. At the beginning of each build session, the students on each subteam roll their own cabinet to their work area, open it up, and get right to work. Cleanup at the end of each build session takes 15-20 minutes (could be faster if all students chipped in equally). Now we hardly ever lose tools or break assemblies (and the few instances were not related to cleanup).

Even if we got our own dedicated work space at the school, I would enforce the full cleanup at every build session. It has worked very well for our team.

[waialua359]

This:
http://waialuarobotics.com/2011-2012/Program/Robotics%20Facilities/roboticsfacilities.html

except add taller ceilings (because of this year's game), and a full size field space (our largest open area is about 3/4 of the official game field).

[moonlight]

You are very fortunate. Our school's tech ed department, took space away from us. We're currently using a loft above a small workroom for storage and about 20 square feet at the back of the machine shop, along with our shipping crate. We have no space to store previous year's robots, so we dismantle them, after using them for demostrations and recruiting. The tech ed department doesn't promote us, since they have their own bots-iq team. Hence our team amounts to about 10-12 styudents and around 4-8 mentors.

The Good thing is that your team is still together. My team has also struggled getting support from our school. Last year (our rookie year) we worked on campus, but this year the school decided to start wood shop to make frames for photography class and that left us with no working or storage place. For months we looked for a place and just 2 weeks before kick-off we found it! Today work on the basement of the Delta Masonic Temple. The place is big, we have a kitchen 2 restrooms and 24\7 access for free. We are still tied up to our school somehow, but we also became a 4H team. We have students from 7 different schools and i think that has helped us a LOT too.

My advice to your team is to stick together and to keep looking for opportunities. NETWORKING is the key. Every person you meet is an opportunity not only for your team, but for that person to become part of something amazing like FIRST. Your school may not be a great support...yet, but there's still tons of people out there that haven't heard the FIRST message yet. Go to your sponsors and to big companies to give demos! We didn't expect it, but this year we got about 6 new mentors just from doing that. The challenges we've faced have made us stronger as a team, and it can be that way for you guys too ;)

Karina Adame
Team Captain
Chairman's Award Lead

"Scientists study the world as it is; engineers create the world that has never been."

- Theodore Von Karman

[moonlight]

Need to have a Dormitory and a mess hall so student can work in shifts. This would be mainly used on the weekends but it would allow for around the clock building.

I totally agree!! your body can get kinda tired after working from 9am-7am the day before shipping day x) lol

[richwong]

This:
http://waialuarobotics.com/2011-2012/Program/Robotics%20Facilities/roboticsfacilities.html

except add taller ceilings (because of this year's game), and a full size field space (our largest open area is about 3/4 of the official game field).

Wow... that's a lot of different rooms.

[Jon Stratis]

I wanted to revive this thread, as we're working with the school right now to define our requirements for a build space, and develop a floor plan.

A few questions for those with more experience:
- How large should the machine shop be? It will be located in a separate room that opens up to the "assembly area". we currently have it spaced at 25'x20'.
- How much room should we have for assembly? This is pretty much where all of the build work will be done (programming, PR, and practice field are separate), and we're currently thinking about 30'30'.
- How much storage should we have in place? We plan to have some material storage available in the machine shop, some more storage (a cabinet or two) in the assembly area, and about 20' of floor to ceiling shelving (3 feet deep, similar to what you see at Home Depot).
- What other groups should we expect to want access to the shop? We immediately thought of the Theater department, since they build sets all year around.

We're all getting pretty excited about the new space, even though it could be a few years before it gets built and finished!

[lorem3k]

If you're in a highschool, try to get a place that won't have classes held in it. We've had some equipment go missing in the past because kids who had class in there thought it'd be a good idea to take it.

[Taylor1023]

Our robotics team has recently been allowed to use a gym from an elementary school that has shut down as a robotics center. This was only supposed to be temporary, but after several school board meetings and some compromising with the senior center our team has been allowed to stay in the gym permanently.

Our "robotics center" has two bathrooms and a small storage room along with the gym. We were recently given a full-size playing field (27 by 54 feet) and that takes up roughly half of the gym (I don't know the exact size of the gym, but the short side of the carpet takes up about half the gym and the long side takes up about 3 quarters, so I'm very roughly estimating 80 feet by 40 feet of gym space. Our storage room is about 10 feet by 20 feet).

Basically, we have six areas in the gym of our robotics center. One corner is administration (about 10 feet by 10 feet) (right as you walk in). The corner next to the administration area (bathrooms and the storage area is located between these corners) is a smaller administration area and safety area (also about 10 feet by 10 feet). The corner opposite to that is the programming/drivers station corner(about 10 feet by 15 feet) (the field is between these two corners, against the wall longways). The build area (about 15 by 15 feet) is in the corner between the administration corner and programming corner. A collection of desks and chairs is between the build corner and administration corner close to the field (used for lunches, full team meetings, lobby area, etc.)

We still go to our high school to machine parts and draw on CAD, but most of the work during the season was done at the gym. Most of the gym is used for driving, building, and programming. We have plenty of storage space as of right now, but it all depends on how much stuff you have (old robots, scrap metal, toolboxes, carts, etc.) and if you want to have a full field. Only robotics kids are allowed at the center as of right now (the senior center has been allowed to use the rest of the school so I hope they will be allowed to come see our part of the building). Overall, it's a good deal considering we sometimes didn't get building permits for the high school for the right days (very important during build season).

If you have any questions about our center you can ask my coach, Debbie May. We have a Facebook page (BX 1023) and a website (bedfordexpress.org) if you have any questions. I'm so pleased to hear that there are more teams that are getting seperate robotics places! Good luck to your team!