[DFTF] Anderson Powerpole Connectors...

[Joe Johnson]

This is part of a series of posts called Drinking From The Firehose (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=97430) on getting Dr Joe back up to speed on All Things FIRST.

http://www.westmountainradio.com/Image/rigrunner/PowerPoles.jpg

Today's topic: Anderson Powerpole Connectors

Honestly, I love 'em. My experience is that once you learn how to use them correctly (crimp, install, join into blocks, tie wrap), they are a very reliable and robust method to make connections on a FIRST robot.

Others have other ideas... ...some are violently opposed to using them.

What is the collective wisdom of the folks on CD as to Anderson Powerpole connectors?

Pros, Cons, Pro Tips, pictures, anecdotes... ...give 'em to me.

If you are against them please propose your alternatives.

Joe J.

[MrForbes]

I think they're great....if indeed you need them. We hardly ever need to disconnect motors and stuff on our FRC robots, so we generally just hardwire it all together.

But I've used them on the underwater robot power systems, where we only use about ten amps, they are very handy for that, we have them on the battery boxes, solar panels, and ROVs.

[Cuog]

422 discovered them a couple years ago and now use them whenever we get a chance(at least twice as often as necessary). They're excellent for making modular systems and spares since it cuts down on replacement time. One challenge we had with putting them into blocks as connectors is that if you don't think ahead and make sure they look different it can be very easy to connect the wrong things together when plugging things in in a rush.

[Joe Johnson]

<snip>

We hardly ever need to disconnect motors and stuff on our FRC robots, so we generally just hardwire it all together.

<snip>

I must be doing it wrong then, because I have never built a robot that I haven't had to take apart many many times ;-)

Joe J.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

We use them to interface our drivebase to the superstructure, which typically mounts with 4 bolts. We solder the connectors onto the wire rather than crimping, which has worked well.

[DavidGitz]

I've heard a lot of good things about these and we tried to use them but we had some problems. Unfortunately I do not have the correct P/N's of the components we used right now but here is what I think we have:

45A Connector Kit: http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/45-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html
30A Connector Kit: http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/30-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html
Crimp Tool: http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=PWRcrimp

We followed the instructions as best as we could from Powerwerx, Westmountain and on here but all of the connections we made were very loose, i.e. after crimping the terminal on the wire and then inserting into the connector very little force was required to pull out the connector. We spent quite a bit of time trying to get this figured out, including talking to Powerwerx Tech Support (who admonished us for not using their Crimping Tool) to no avail. I believe we finally got one to work after spending a lot of time on manipulating the terminal with a needle-nose pliers to make it sit into the connector correctly.

I'm sure that the problem we had was that we weren't doing it correctly, somehow. We ended up not using them at all and we haven't had any connections go out so far this season (due to having direct connections between devices instead of splicing wire together) so we haven't looked back yet. I'm sure if we had someone knowledgable around to show us how to use these we would use them in the future (and we do, some nearby teams use them, we've just been too busy with other things).

[andreboos]

Love 'em too.

In 2010, we wanted to be able to disconnect our electronics board entirely from the rest of the robot. Some 12-gauge quick-disconnect connectors would not crimp properly. We got some automotive alternator connectors that claimed to handle 50 amps, even though the wires looked a bit small, but they were COTS connectors, so we wired them up. We drove the robot the night before ship. A few minutes in, the wires that came with the connectors began smoking. We removed the electronics board shipped the robot with wires still warm.

Before our first regional, one of our mentors went to an amateur radio store and got us a ratchet crimper and a set of 40A Anderson Powerpole connectors, which we promptly crimped onto the leads from our electronics board. When we got to the regional, we crimped the connectors onto the motor leads. Worked well.

Now we use them on anything that might have to be disconnected, right down to cRIO and breakout power.

Where do other teams buy theirs? We bought ours from PowerWerx last year but then found them on McMaster-Carr this year and then lumped them in with another order.

[lpickett]

We use them to interface our drivebase to the superstructure, which typically mounts with 4 bolts. We solder the connectors onto the wire rather than crimping, which has worked well.

I agree that soldering is the way to go. I am an electrician and soldering these connectors is more reliable than crimping. You can crimp, but make sure it is with the proper tools and correct parts. You might also use colored heat shrink to ensure a good coverage on the soldered joint. It gives a little more strength to the connection.

[andreboos]

Do uncrimped connectors fit into the housing? Maybe the 15 and 30 amp varieties, but I can't imagine that the 40A v-shaped connector would fit into the hole.

Regarding soldering, we have never soldered our Anderson connectors. Have teams had problems with wires falling out of crimped Anderson connectors?

[connor.worley]

We use these for superstructure power and we've found that unsoldered connectors suffice if they're crimped properly.

[AlecMataloni]

Wildstang has used this product for quite a while, longer than i've been on the team, and all that I know is that these connectors are very dependable. We've never had any issues with them, as far as i know. We'll crimp and solder them (it sounds like overkill, but we never want to lose to 71 because of an electrical issue ever again :)), and we'll use them on speed controllers, spikes, motors, and basically anything else we need to remove easily. I'm sure one of my mentors could give better testimony, but from a student perspective, this product makes the electrical subteam's job much easier.

I definitely approve.

[Jeremy Germita]

Where do other teams buy theirs? We bought ours from PowerWerx last year but then found them on McMaster-Carr this year and then lumped them in with another order.

What's the mcmaster part number?

399 just started using the powerpoles this year. Can't live without them. Using powerpoles and some RJ45 connectors(for sensor lines) allow us to create completely modular subsystems. We have them at every motor connection.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I have been using these for about 8 years in FIRST have had very few issues. A couple reasons I have seen teams have issues is that they don't buy a real crimp tool for them, not some generic thing that doesn't do the job, a real one is only like $40. Another issue is they buy generic connectors, real Anderson's are very reliable. The number of times I have had to change a speed controller right before a match have led me to always want to be able to quick change any component so nearly everything has multiple Anderson connectors on it.

They can get expensive but it's completely worth it if it can save a match. If you buy in bulk you can easily get them for under $1 a pair.

[sanddrag]

I have had issues before of certain pins in certain housings not making contact at times if the housings came slightly apart, and in RC cars I've had them pull apart often just from impact of landing from jumps. However, you can zip tie the two sides together.

We use them and like them for our FRC robot. Our whole superstructure is removable by 4 bolts, one large 4x2 Anderson Powerpole assembly, and a DB9.

[JesseK]

This year we returned to our habit of a removable electronics board, which really helped during the final days when we wanted to get into a tight spot to drill a rivet out and replace a minor part without getting shavings everywhere.

My team has been through several generations of quick-connects, and this year we're going with the gigantic Andersons (yes, the one for the battery). I personally don't like them as much because there's no way to reverse the connectors for quick debugging or quick retraction of an arm on a window motor (and they're huge). However, we used the big ones this year because (from what I've discerned in conversations) they have permanent mount holes built into them, whereas the mini andersons do not. Other than the zip-tie method, does anyone know of a way to perma-mount a mini-anderson pair?

We've also moved away from using clustered blocks of mini-andersons to connect parts of the robot -- everything is generally fine until a single motor in the block has to be replaced, at which point that one pair of connectors has to be pried out of the block. This wreaked havoc on us in 2008.

[chi-town-biker]

Other than the zip-tie method, does anyone know of a way to perma-mount a mini-anderson pair?

These clamps work great with the powerpoles. They give a secure mounting point and ensure the plugs never come apart due to vibration. There's a tab on the back, we just cut it off and bolt the clamps flat on the electrical board.

http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/110G21-blok-lok-clamp-2-sets.html

[Alan Anderson]

...we used the big ones this year because (from what I've discerned in conversations) they have permanent mount holes built into them, whereas the mini andersons do not. Other than the zip-tie method, does anyone know of a way to perma-mount a mini-anderson pair?

When you slide the connector housings together, there's a small hole that appears between them. I think it's intended for a pin to keep them from sliding apart again. On our cleanest and most modular control box, we put a small bolt (M3 might have been too large) through the hole to mount the connectors.

[TD78]

We use these clips (http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/retention-clips.html) in those holes. They work very well.

[Steven Sigley]

The chassis mount for powerpoles featured here:
http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/powerpoles-chassis-mount-4-sets.html
and
http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/plug-with-latch-4-sets.html

Are a DREAM. I used them in 2009, and its a great feeling to disconnect 4 motors at once. I imagine making a box one day with 2 or 3 of these and a good cable management system for any sensor inputs would make a removable electronics box so easy.

[AlexH]

I personally love powerpoles.

One thing I do is after I crim them I add a dab of solder so the wires dont fall out.

[andreboos]

What's the mcmaster part number?

8026K9 for 45A kits.

[Steven Sigley]

Crimp Tool: http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=PWRcrimp

We followed the instructions as best as we could from Powerwerx, Westmountain and on here but all of the connections we made were very loose, i.e. after crimping the terminal on the wire and then inserting into the connector very little force was required to pull out the connector. We spent quite a bit of time trying to get this figured out, including talking to Powerwerx Tech Support (who admonished us for not using their Crimping Tool) to no avail.


Yeah as much as i dont like the idea of a special crimper, it works like magic.
We tried to go the first year without buying the crimper and it was the biggest hassle ever. To anyone thinking about getting started with powerpoles, DO NOT BE CHEAP, buy the crimper, it's worth the money saving the time and frustration and failed crimps. Get the crimper and use it and then making anderson connectors is the easiest thing ever. :)
Don't make the same mistake i did, you'll regret it

[andreboos]

We've also moved away from using clustered blocks of mini-andersons to connect parts of the robot -- everything is generally fine until a single motor in the block has to be replaced, at which point that one pair of connectors has to be pried out of the block. This wreaked havoc on us in 2008.

Maybe you got a plastic-welded set, which some retailers sell; the standard individual modular connectors are very easy to separate by hand.

[JesseK]

Maybe you got a plastic-welded set, which some retailers sell; the standard individual modular connectors are very easy to separate by hand.

I'm not sure what you mean by "plastic-welded" set. Each connector contains 1 wire. We use the friction-fit shapes to put a red & black together. Getting them apart takes a pair of needle nose pliers about half the time.

[Bill_B]

Has any of our Ansel Adams wannabes here on CD taken some close-up, high resolution shots of good, bad, and ugly crimps? It's one thing to give a description or a tug-test mention and quite another to claim that a specific crimper is doing or not doing the job. I've got a crimper that I've used for nearly 50 years. It puts a dimple into the connector such that Herculean effort is required to break the result. Most tested times, the wire breaks and there are still crimped strands inside the connector. I may just make a gallery of crimps and the tools that made them, unless someone beats me to it. ;)

[waialua359]

Yeah as much as i dont like the idea of a special crimper, it works like magic.
We tried to go the first year without buying the crimper and it was the biggest hassle ever. To anyone thinking about getting started with powerpoles, DO NOT BE CHEAP, buy the crimper, it's worth the money saving the time and frustration and failed crimps. Get the crimper and use it and then making anderson connectors is the easiest thing ever. :)
Don't make the same mistake i did, you'll regret it

This cannot be stressed enough.
Buy the correct crimpers and not only will it be easier to crimp, it'll be dependable.

Our team went to making just about every electrical/control system component with connectors. This allows for easy assemble/disassemble when necessary.

[Bill_B]

However, we used the big ones this year because (from what I've discerned in conversations) they have permanent mount holes built into them, whereas the mini andersons do not. Other than the zip-tie method, does anyone know of a way to perma-mount a mini-anderson pair?


There are several ways to mount powerpoles. One way is to use this mounting clamp set. (http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/1462G1-mounting-clamp-set.html) Another uses things called mounting wings. (http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/housings-contacts/1399G9-powerpole-mounting-wing.html) Be sure to check the pictures on that site. They mention using in pairs, but I could see a string of connectors that goes, wing-pole-pole-wing-pole-pole-wing-pole-pole-wing for as many pairs as you need.

Not mentioned so far, is the "polarity" standard for PPoles. Viz., looking at the tongues of the cases, the black belongs on the right, and colored (red, yellow, blue, white etc.) on the left of the pair. You should resist the temptation to adjust wiring or programming errors by reversing the color sequences except very briefly for experimental reasons. One of the good things about powerpoles is always hitching matching colors together. You should be able to avoid hitching your drive motor to the elevator spike by using distinct colors for each connection you have. Don't depend on "it won't reach" as your connection strategy.

One more good thing is the ability to make extension cables using the 14ga. zip wire. (there goes "it won't reach!") You might not even have to get your removable control board all the way into its fighting position just to try out a simple program change by extending the connections involved in your test.

[sanddrag]

I personally love powerpoles.

One thing I do is after I crim them I add a dab of solder so the wires dont fall out.

When properly crimped (powerpoles or anything), the wires should never fall out.

[AlexH]

When properly crimped (powerpoles or anything), the wires should never fall out.

Soldering them gives a nice sense of security...