MARC 2012

[Steve Ketron]

Attached is information and application for this years M.A.R.C. June 22-23. If interested in coming, please fill-out the form and return ASAP.

2012 M.A.R.C. ROBOTICS COMPETITION


WHAT: Michigan Advanced Robotics Competition (MARC)

WHEN: June 22th at noon and
June 23th (ALL DAY)

WHERE: Monroe High School
901 Herr Rd
Monroe, MI 48161

PRICE: $350
$300 for the 12 original teams that attended the inaugural MARC event

TEAM LIMIT: 42+ (Depending on # of teams that apply)

REGISTRATION: Now until May 30th. Pay by May 25th and receive a $50.00 discount. (Original teams $350 - $50 (plank-owner discount) - $50 early-bird discount = $250)

HOW TO REGISTER: 2012 Michigan Advanced Robotics Competition (MARC) Registration Form.

FOOD: Teams can purchase hot dogs, nachos, pizza, cheesy bread and water/pop during the event (both days) at the arena.

LODGING: Available close by.

VOLUNTEERS: We have NUMEROUS positions that need great volunteers - field reset, queuing, field repair, refereeing, pit admin...the list goes on. Those interested in volunteering should contact Marjie Jenkins. Due to the lack of volunteers to fill some primary roles, special discounts will be given to teams that provide volunteers for refereeing, judging, and queuing ($25 OFF PRICE),

QUESTIONS/INFO: Contact Steve Ketron 734-265-3574
KETRON@MONROE.K12.MI.US

Marjie Jenkins (Volunteer Coordinator)
marjiejenkins@gmail.com

[Koko Ed]

I am hoping to encourage my kids to go this time.

[Debbie]

1023 will be there! :)

[Ryan Caldwell]

2851 will be there, with an all rookie drive team :yikes:

[XaulZan11]

I expect 1732 to attend again this year.

I encourged every team within several hours from Monroe to attend. We've attended MARC 4 of the 5 years since the first year in 2007 and have had an amazing time each year. Its a great relaxed event to try out new drivers or practice for IRI.

[Brian Ha]

Man, MARC last year was amazing. Haha, maybe because we won maybe not. I hope the Hilltoppers definetly come again, it was really great meeting you guys last year!

[Ed Law]

Team 2834 will be there. We always look forward to it each year and had a great time.

[PayneTrain]

I'm trying to convince my guys we should get our butts kicked in Michigan on my birthday.

Here's hoping registration won't lockout until next week.

[P.J.]

As one of the original 12, I am sure 910 will be coming again as well. It has been fantastic to see how the event is grown over the years, from only the 12 of us in 2007 to people fighting to get into the 42 slots now :ahh: Steve and his whole crew do such a great job and it just gets better every year. I encourage teams from outside MI to apply, since with the district system we don't get to make many outside friends. :p

[Steve Ketron]

M.A.R.C. is a really fun event to attend and I give all the credit to the amazing volunteers that have helped me throughout the years for making it such a success. I enjoy seeing new teams come every year and I have pushed a couple of out-of-state favorites to attend this year. I am not giving team names but hopefully they will be able to make it. They will make our event even more enjoyable by giving our Michigan teams the oppertunity to compete with and against them.

Come on guys, I know you can convince your teams to travel here.

[aspiece]

FIRST Team 68, Truck Town Thunder, is looking forward to competing this year.

[Craig Roys]

1718 once again plans to be there...we've attended every year except for the first year. We always have a great time at this event. Plus, we have a mentor title to defend...please tell me there will be a mentor tournament again.

[Steve Ketron]

Mentor matches have been way to long in the past. We are looking into ways of making them shorter. Also, I don't know how teams will feel about their mentors driving over the bridges and breaking their robots. Please voice your opinions on this topic.

[atiaquatic]

As one of the Plank members Team 1504 will be there.:D :D

[P.J.]

Mentor matches have been way to long in the past. We are looking into ways of making them shorter. Also, I don't know how teams will feel about their mentors driving over the bridges and breaking their robots. Please voice your opinions on this topic.

I can't remember how mentor matches have been done in the past, was it single match elimination? If not, then that would be a good way to cut down on time.

[470-RBTX]

Team 470 will most likely be attending! Word on the street is the famous Grant is emceeing this year so I know I can't wait to be there!

[GBK]

Steve, you could do the Mentor matches as a single elimination. That would speed up the process.
This event is just too much fun!

[Koko Ed]

If you don't have teams pay to do the mentor matches (we don't charge for them for Ruckus) then you won't feel so much pressure to do them even if we're behind. If we are doing ok on time then we go for it. If we're behind we call it a day and go get some sleep.

[johnr]

Give each team a ticket and they can turn it in when they want a mentor to drive during the regular matches.

[kgalea]

I will be sending in our registration Tuesday... Hoping we can make the cutoff again - had a great time last year!

[nikeairmancurry]

Give each team a ticket and they can turn it in when they want a mentor to drive during the regular matches.

More make each teams last qualifying match a mentor match.

[themathgod]

As one of the original 12, FIRST team 279, TechFusion, will be there
It is a great event and a good way to see which younger students can step up.

[Steve Ketron]

Team 470 will most likely be attending! Word on the street is the famous Grant is emceeing this year so I know I can't wait to be there!

M.A.R.C. is the birthplace of the world famous emcee "GRANT". I only hope that he is able to make it back again this year.

[pathew100]

I don't think MC Grant was born. More like formed out of pure energy. And fueled by caffeine and enthusiastic crowds. :)

[Steve Ketron]

Actually think the formation started with the combination of green hair spray and a big smile.

[TNT280Staff]

Team "TnT" 280 has sent in the registration and looking forward to a great experience as always at M.A.R.C.

[msaunders]

Team 862 Lightning Robotics has sent in the registration and is looking forward to being a first time attendee at M.A.R.C.

[J_Miles]

I don't think MC Grant was born. More like formed out of pure energy. And fueled by caffeine and enthusiastic crowds. :)

Caffeine? The man himself claimed at the Ann Arbor district in 2010 that all that energy comes from nothing but H20. :cool:

[GaryVoshol]

Inspiration by Copioli probably contributes to His Grantedness.

[P.J.]

Are there going to be any rule changes at MARC this year? I know in the past it has been similar to IRI where some of the less popular or (how to put this delicately) less well thought out rules were changed.

If there are plans to make rule changes, there is already a great discussion going on in the IRI 2012 thread, so the powers that be (meaning you Gary :p ) can read that over if they haven't already been following it and they're looking for inspiration.

[themathgod]

Steve,
From time to time can you post a running list of who is coming to MARC this year?
Thanks

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Team 1675, The Ultimate Protection Squad, is looking forward to FINALLY getting to play with our Michigan friends!

[Steve Ketron]

Steve,
From time to time can you post a running list of who is coming to MARC this year?
Thanks

I can from time to time post a list of teams that have applied to come. Although I try my best to have every team that applies come to the event, I have to wait to see how many teams apply and how much room I have in the facility. The one thing for sure is that I want to have the number of teams competing a number dividable by six. This is so we don't have any waisted rounds.

I will post my first list tomorrow.

[Travis Hoffman]

OK, as one who has never attended the event but has heard of the "legend" of the MARC venue's "hot"ness, can those who attended last year please give me an honest descriptive assessment of the comfort levels at the venue - both in pits and at the field?

For example...is it "sitting in the outdoor stands at the Disney-era Championship" hot? :D

I have heard from several that the temp was much better last year. What measures are in place/will be in place to keep the heat down?

[pathew100]

It was a little cooler last year because the outside temperature was a bit lower than normal. Highs were around 70 vs a typical 80 degree high for end of June in MI

They usually have large fans to move air in/out of the gym. But it is still hot. Wear shorts, bring plenty of water/sports beverage.

The area where the pits are just outside the gym is air conditioned if you need a cool down break.

[Jack Jones]

I can from time to time post a list of teams that have applied to come. Although I try my best to have every team that applies come to the event, I have to wait to see how many teams apply and how much room I have in the facility. The one thing for sure is that I want to have the number of teams competing a number dividable by six. This is so we don't have any waisted rounds.

I will post my first list tomorrow.

If you have ten rounds like last year, then #ofTeams can be divisible by three.
If nine rounds, then #ofTeams needs to be an even number

[Steve Ketron]

It was a little cooler last year because the outside temperature was a bit lower than normal. Highs were around 70 vs a typical 80 degree high for end of June in MI

They usually have large fans to move air in/out of the gym. But it is still hot. Wear shorts, bring plenty of water/sports beverage.

The area where the pits are just outside the gym is air conditioned if you need a cool down break.

Last year I also purchased (3) industrial dry misting fans specifically for the gym. Could not tell how effective they were last year because of how cool it was.

Bascally, gym (playing field) is hot and the pits cool

[Craig Roys]

OK, as one who has never attended the event but has heard of the "legend" of the MARC venue's "hot"ness, can those who attended last year please give me an honest descriptive assessment of the comfort levels at the venue - both in pits and at the field?

For example...is it "sitting in the outdoor stands at the Disney-era Championship" hot? :D

I have heard from several that the temp was much better last year. What measures are in place/will be in place to keep the heat down?

It's generally cooler in the pits, but it gets plenty warm in the gym. It's nothing unbearable - just warm enough to make you want to complain about it. :ahh: Bring plenty of water to drink to stay hydrated.

[Koko Ed]

OK, as one who has never attended the event but has heard of the "legend" of the MARC venue's "hot"ness, can those who attended last year please give me an honest descriptive assessment of the comfort levels at the venue - both in pits and at the field?
The pits are rather comfortable and air conditioned. It was the gym that was the issue.

For example...is it "sitting in the outdoor stands at the Disney-era Championship" hot? :D
Worse.


I have heard from several that the temp was much better last year. What measures are in place/will be in place to keep the heat down?
It was a strangely cool and gray weekend last year so with the temperature down outside it was rather pleasant inside. The heat took a vacation and made an appearance 9in milder form) at IRI instead.
Steve purchased some cooling fans that spray a fine mist to keep the temperature down in the gym.

[Koko Ed]

I am hoping to encourage my kids to go this time.

I talked to the kids. They want to give it a shot so we'll be there ready to Rebound Rumble!

[Steve Ketron]

Updated list of teams that have applied:
48
68
107
191
280
494
830
862
1675
1718
2337
2832
2834
2851
3175
3357
3548
3641

The following 12 teams are original participants (PLANK-OWNERS) and are automatically in the event:
51
70
226 (did not participate last year)(HAVE NOT RECEIVED VERBAL YET)
240
279
503
910
1023
1243
1504
1528
1732

[Steve Ketron]

Teams 245 and 3547 just applied and 1732 confirmed that they will be coming. List of teams getting bigger and better.

[470-RBTX]

You said your capacity was 42+? Does that mean that if more than 42 teams apply you'll make room for them, or does it mean you'll choose the best teams or do a lottery or what?

[Steve Ketron]

Last year I had 47 teams participate. I could hold more teams but it comes down to #teams vs #matches for the money. I prefer to have at least 10 qualification matches per team. As long as I have enough teams apply, I could go up to 54 teams comfortably.

[Steve Ketron]

Here is the updated list:
48
68
107
191
245
280
461
470
494
830
862
1675
1718
2337
2612
2832
2834
2851
3096
3175
3322
3357
3547
3548
3641
4395

The following 12 teams are original participants (PLANK-OWNERS) and are automatically in the event:
51
70
226 (did not participate last year)(HAVE NOT RECEIVED VERBAL YET)
240
279
503
910
1023
1243
1504
1528
1732

[FoleyEngineer]

Wow, that's 37 already! Should be a blast!

[Steve Ketron]

Here is the updated list as of 4/30/12:
48
68
107
123
191
245
280
461
470
494
548
830
862
1675
1718
2137
2337
2612
2832
2834
2851
3096
3175
3302
3322
3357
3547
3548
3641
4395

The following 12 teams are original participants (PLANK-OWNERS) and are automatically in the event:
51
70
226 (did not participate last year)(HAVE NOT RECEIVED VERBAL YET)
240
279
503
910
1023
1243
1504
1528
1732

[Debbie]

Are you considering any rule changes? I would love to see the 2 qualifying points for the bridge go away! :D

[GBK]

1918 Just sent in our registration. We are looking forward to this awesome event and having a chance to see some good friends again.

[Steve Ketron]

Are you considering any rule changes? I would love to see the 2 qualifying points for the bridge go away! :D

I would love to see the co-op points switched to 1 point if you make it and 0 for anything else. However, that is not my decision. I leave all the rules changes up to my head ref (gary V.)and his team.

[nikeairmancurry]

Are you considering any rule changes? I would love to see the 2 qualifying points for the bridge go away! :D

Why go away? The co-op bridge was one of the more exciting things in this game. Last second co-ops were amazing to see. Reducing to 1 co-op point I can deal with, but removing them completely not so much.

[BX MARK]

Why go away? The co-op bridge was one of the more exciting things in this game. Last second co-ops were amazing to see. Reducing to 1 co-op point I can deal with, but removing them completely not so much.

100% agree. FIRST is all about cooperating with you opponents and working together. As far as lessening the point value, the goal was to make it as valuable as winning (so you could ‘win’ even when you lost). If you lessen the points, that negates that to an extent.

[Debbie]

Why go away? The co-op bridge was one of the more exciting things in this game. Last second co-ops were amazing to see. Reducing to 1 co-op point I can deal with, but removing them completely not so much.

Well.. for us.. at worlds.. we were 8-1 and in 16th rank mostly because 3 agreed upon coops didn't show up to coop with us. (not that the co-op failed for trying, but that they just wouldn't try to do it) That's why I'd like it to go away. :D Seems to allow teams to control others rankings a little too much. I like doing the co-op, just don't like the impact it has rankings. 1 point would certainly be better than 2.

[Steve Ketron]

Well.. for us.. at worlds.. we were 8-1 and in 16th rank mostly because 3 agreed upon coops didn't show up to coop with us. (not that the co-op failed for trying, but that they just wouldn't try to do it) That's why I'd like it to go away. :D Seems to allow teams to control others rankings a little too much. I like doing the co-op, just don't like the impact it has rankings. 1 point would certainly be better than 2.

I have seen this happen to ourself and others. This is exactly why I think it should be lowered.

[Adam Freeman]

I am not sure that making it 1pt is going to make things any better. If nothing else, it makes it easier for a team to decide not to do it. Which, if you are on the other side of that decision is still going to effect your ranking. All it does is change the situations in which a team decides to coop or not.

We used the coop bridge with great success this year. We took advantage that winning + coop will move us way up in the rankings and that doing it consistently everytime will lead to great success. In our local districts team s that knew us pretty much agreed we should be the ones to do it, and we had no shortage of willing and capable partners. At MSC, so teams from farther away from metro-Detroit, did not know us so well and we had to have a direct conversation about why we should do it. Everyone at MSC was capable. In St. Louis, it was even worse...we needed to convince most teams that we should be the one coop'ing and then struggle to find an opponent that was capable of performing the task with us.

I also saw a lot of teams declining to coop or agreeing and not showing up. We have never experienced that this season, but I can imagine that is probably one of the worst feelings...knowing someone is messing with your ranking for their own benefit (without beating you) or even worse they just lied to you.

Making it 1pt, lessens the pain of those lies, but also makes it easier to either decieve someone or just plain tell them you don't want to do it. It definitely changes the dynamic a bit.

It still takes the same effort and time to do it. If you are going too...wouldn't you want to get the most benefit from it?

I say either leave it as 2pts...or get rid of it all together for off-season events and let us just run up the scores as much as possible...:D

[Debbie]

I am not sure that making it 1pt is going to make things any better. If nothing else, it makes it easier for a team to decide not to do it. Which, if you are on the other side of that decision is still going to effect your ranking. All it does is change the situations in which a team decides to coop or not.



That is a very good point I hadn't thought of Adam. I think you are right about this.

[GBK]

I think that the value of the bridge is exactly what first has been trying to accomplish with coop bridge. It allows teams that were not able to play the game well to play in the elimination rounds. How many times in Michigan alone did we see a robot that could not shoot and in some cases even pick up a ball end up as an alliance captain.
It might be fun to make it no value and just run up the score. That would also give us a chance to do some triple balancing in the quals.

[Craig Roys]

I don't have any problem with co-op since we were pretty successful with it all year; in fact, although a little more difficult, we managed to go 9 for 9 on Galileo. However, if you do decide to do away with it for MARC, it might be interesting to play elimination rules (triple balance) for the whole thing. Of course that may open a whole other can of worms...the scheduling gods may put some teams consistently on alliances that can triple while others get doomed to alliances that don't have a chance. My preference would be to keep the co-op...I like to think that most teams at this event would put an honest effort into doing it, or at least be honest in telling you that they don't plan to.

[pathew100]

You'd have to be pretty shallow to either not try to co-op, lie about co-op, or break up a co-op attempt at an off-season event. (IMHO anyway)

[qzrrbz]

You'd have to be pretty shallow to either not try to co-op, lie about co-op, or break up a co-op attempt at an off-season event. (IMHO anyway)

And expect to ever get another invite to return...

[BJC]

I'm pretty positive that we will be attending. :]

Looking forward to playing again
Regards, Bryan

[Adam Freeman]

You'd have to be pretty shallow to either not try to co-op, lie about co-op, or break up a co-op attempt at an off-season event. (IMHO anyway)

While I agree 100%, that doesn't mean that if the point value was reduced it would make it more likely that teams would decide not to coop at an off-season event. Even if they don't lie or breakup a coop, a team deciding to not coop is not a very pleasant event for the other alliance.

I am fine with leaving it as 2pts. That makes it worthwhile to stop playing for the win and going to coop. If it's worth less, then which do you go for when you see you are losing the match, but agreed to coop? Win the match for 2pts or do what you said you would do for 1pt?

I can tell you that even when it was worth 2pts, teams continued to score way past the agreed upon time, just to rush the coop balance and end up failing.

[Shu]

I would love to see the co-op points switched to 1 point if you make it and 0 for anything else. However, that is not my decision. I leave all the rules changes up to my head ref (gary V.)and his team.

I vote for 1 point for a co-op balance to give more weight to your win-loss record. I still think teams would opt for the co-op balance because you basically get credit for 1/2 a win. We had the second best win loss record at MSC but ended up in 16th place after quals. We had a solid performance but did not have good luck when it came to the co-op bridge whether it was us or our alliance partners.

[pathew100]

I agree. The co-op bridge should be 2 pts or 0 pts.

Now if you decide on 0 pts, then question becomes whether or not you allow triple balances in quals. I'd say no because of the random pairings.

Would make strategy interesting at the end of the match knowing most of the time that the best shooter on an alliance will continue to shoot until the end. And would have some 'ammo' with the inbounders throwing balls to their side.

[Aiyash]

Team Cosmos is excited to be at MARC this year :D

We hope to meet some old friends and make new ones, as usual!

[Clinton Bolinger]

If the coop is worth 0 points, I would say you make the qualifications points as follows:

- Triple Balance = 40 Points
- Double Balance = 20 Points
- Single (Coop or Alliance Bridge) Balance = 10 Points

This would allow for teams to still perform the triple balance but if you have a match with 3 long bots you could still get 30 points. Two bots on the alliance bridge and 1 bot on the coop bridge.

-Clinton-

[avanboekel]

If coop is worth 0, then I think the coop bridge and barriers should be removed. This would allow for higher teleop scoring, and the possibility of triple balancing during qualification matches.

[Debbie]

If the coop is worth 0 points, I would say you make the qualifications points as follows:

- Triple Balance = 40 Points
- Double Balance = 20 Points
- Single (Coop or Alliance Bridge) Balance = 10 Points

This would allow for teams to still perform the triple balance but if you have a match with 3 long bots you could still get 30 points. Two bots on the alliance bridge and 1 bot on the coop bridge.

-Clinton-
I like this! So, once one team goes to the co-op bridge, would it be off limits for the other? Or, would a double co-op just provide the same points to both teams?

[Clinton Bolinger]

I like this! So, once one team goes to the co-op bridge, would it be off limits for the other? Or, would a double co-op just provide the same points to both teams?

I would say that they can coop together to get the same points, but you can not try to tip the bridge in order to unbalance the bridge.

Maybe as a bonus for cooping together you give each team like 12 more points for Hybrid because it is the tiebreaker after Qualification Score.

Some of these might be hard to do depending on the FMS and the scoring system.

-Clinton-

[TNT280Staff]

My vote would be to leave it as is @ 2 points.

[Ed Law]

Instead of coop bridge with 0 or 1 coop points and therefore 0 or 1 qualification points but this requires a robot from each alliance to balance, how about if one robot goes to coop bridge and get a single balance, the robot will get 1 coop point and therefore 1 qualification point. This way, if the other alliance will not come to the coop bridge to balance, you can still get 1 more qualification point for seeding and the other alliance have less power to mess with your seeding. If there is a rule like that, it will give more incentive for both alliances to go to the coop bridge which is what FIRST wants to encourage teams to do.

I also like what Clinton proposed. It may comes down to what is feasible in the scoring system to accomodate the rule change.

[GBK]

I like a combination of what Clinton and Ed proposed. However seeing a bunch of triples in the quals would be awesome. If the coop bridge is going to have value, allowing just one balance to get a qual point would make for some interesting decisions by teams, rather to do a triple of coop.

[Debbie]

how about if one robot goes to coop bridge and get a single balance, the robot will get 1 coop point and therefore 1 qualification point.

I really like this idea! It gives incentive for teams to do the co-op if they know that 1 alliance will get at least 1 point if they don't show. The only drawback is that one team may say they were coming .. so you would probably have to put a time limit on when you could single it. .. other than that.. I like it..

I like a combination of what Clinton and Ed proposed. However seeing a bunch of triples in the quals would be awesome. If the coop bridge is going to have value, allowing just one balance to get a qual point would make for some interesting decisions by teams, rather to do a triple of coop.
I also like the idea of having more opportunities to try triples.

[pathew100]

Unfortunately in the scoring system there's no easy way to individually assign QP to teams. (That I can think of).

It is much easier to manipulate game scores for bridges, hybrid, etc though for Clint's idea.

[Wayne TenBrink]

How about:
- 2 QP for a triple balance on the co-op bridge, regardless of which alliance the 3 bots came from. All 6 bots on the field get the points.
- 1 QP for a double balance on the co-op bridge. Bots must be from opposite alliances. All 6 get the points.
- 10 alliance scoring points each alliance robot on a bridge (co-op or alliance).

That would encourage a lot of triple balancing (just for the fun of it) without penalizing a team for sending 2 or 3 of their bots to the co-op bridge. It would incentivise everybody to be helpful whether or not they are on the bridge. It wouldn't penalize a traditional co-op balance too much, while encouraging triples. Since any bot on the field can be part of the triple, it maximizes the chances of making it happen.

[Shu]

If you do 1 point for a single co-op, then what would prevent teams from going early and balancing the bridge themselves and not allowing the other alliance the chance to get the point.

[Ed Law]

If you do 1 point for a single co-op, then what would prevent teams from going early and balancing the bridge themselves and not allowing the other alliance the chance to get the point.

The incentive is if one team is already on the coop bridge and they see the other alliance's robot coming to the coop bridge, they will get one more qualifying point if they would lower it themselves and "invite" the other robot to come up to the coop bridge. If they want to be selfish and take the one point and deny the other alliance any points, the other alliance can force the bridge down and go up. I don't think this will happen in Michigan and because the incentive is big enough.

[Adam Freeman]

If you do 1 point for a single co-op, then what would prevent teams from going early and balancing the bridge themselves and not allowing the other alliance the chance to get the point.

This. I think any time you offer up an opportunity for a team to mess with another one, then it's a bad idea.

Say (under this proposed idea) I am on the coop bridge waiting for my opponent. He continues scoring...so I balance the bridge for 1pt. Then he comes to the bridge to coop, expecting to get an extra point. I stay balanced and upset them for not unbalancing...since I don't think we can get re-balanced with 2 robots in time. Or heaven forbid, they unbalance the bridge themselves and we fail to get re-balanced. Who is at fault and how many people have their feelings hurt?

The same goes for allowing triple balancing or awarding a different amount of points for triples, doubles, or singles on the coop bridge. There is always a way that a devious, but strategic coach can find to take advantage of these proposed ideas.

All these rule changes make it easier to decieve some one, not harder. I would hate for MARC to turn into this type of event because the rules were changed (in hopes of improving the play) without fully understanding the impact of these changes.

I think the GDC knew that if the coop bridge was any less valuable teams could find ways to decide not to do it. At 2Qps, its as good as a win and keeps you up in the rankings even if you lose a match.

The coop bridge in Michigan has been a postive experience all season long. My opinion is either leave it alone, and we all coop together or get rid of it and lets turn up the scoring and see who is really the best in qualification using W-L-T.

[Steve Ketron]

If it was up to me, then I would get rid of the entire thing and have a scorefest. However ever since day one of the M.A.R.C., I gave the authority to change rules to the Head Ref and his team. They are the ones that have to remember their changes. So why not give them the power.

I have to say that every year that Gary has been the Head Ref, he has carefully looked at the game and made only the slighest of changes to the rules. These changes have been in the teams and refs best interest and without a doubt made M.A.R.C. both very fun and exciting. Stay tuned and Gary will give his teams changes (if any) for this years event.

[Craig Roys]

I have to say that every year that Gary has been the Head Ref, he has carefully looked at the game and made only the slighest of changes to the rules. These changes have been in the teams and refs best interest and without a doubt made M.A.R.C. both very fun and exciting. Stay tuned and Gary will give his teams changes (if any) for this years event.

I agree that Gary has done an excellent job. It seems every year, people start suggesting changes just for change sake rather than in an attempt to improve some faulty part of the game. While some of the changes seem like they could be very interesting, they also would change the game too much. Gary has always reeled everyone back and only made necessary (usually minor) changes to help improve the game.

I think the coop does deserve some discussion; however, if it was up to me, I would keep it as is.

[Master1528]

Would anyone be interested in doing a team shirt exchange if so come to team 1528's pit and let me know what size you need i need a large so if your interested stop by

[themathgod]

Steve
Please put 279 on your list of attending.

[Steve Ketron]

Steve
Please put 279 on your list of attending.

Your on the list.

[Debbie]

Steve
Please put 279 on your list of attending.
I thought the same thing when I looked at the list, but if you go to the bottom for the "Plank holders" you will find yourself! :)

[Steve Ketron]

There is only one week left for teams to apply. If your team is thinking of coming to participate in M.A.R.C., then please get in your application. I will not accept any late applications.

[Adam Freeman]

HOT has submitted a registration form.

If we get in we will be bringing a 100% brand new drive team. This (I believe) is the first time someone has not had experience on the drive team heading into an event since 2007. So, it's going to be interesting.

Can't wait to play again!

[Ed Law]

We will be having a brand new drive team and new drive coach also since the crew this year were all seniors. It will be interesting. I hope they won't do too much damage to our robot and others' robots. Attention teams, please do not get too close to our robot in the matches. Caution, new drivers. :)

[GBK]

Adam, gotta love a rookie drive team. We have always used rookies at the MARC in fact the drive team we used this season got their start at the MARC last year. They then went on to the WMRI putting them starting this last season with just two off seasons under their belts. We expect to bring this last seasons drivers to MARK but will be using rookies much of the time so we have a clue where we are when this years team graduates after next season. So it will be interesting from our end as well.
As always we are looking forward to great fun at the MARC this year.

[JosephC]

Seeing as our Drive Team this year consisted of 2 sophomores and a Senior we'll be bringing a 1/3 new drive team. Beware of our Manipulator shooting balls at the most unseenly times.

[Debbie]

HOT has submitted a registration form.

If we get in we will be bringing a 100% brand new drive team. This (I believe) is the first time someone has not had experience on the drive team heading into an event since 2007. So, it's going to be interesting.

Can't wait to play again!
BX will also be running a full rookie drive team. We are hoping to practice with them a little first.

If anyone is interested in coming down to Bedford Township (Temperance, MI) (on the border of Toledo, Ohio) and practicing on our field and bridge, let me know. :)

[Koko Ed]

Backups (mostly) for my team as well. The driver, operator and coach are graduating that weekend.

[Steve Ketron]

This is going to be a very exciting event with all these new drivers taking over. 1528 will also have a new driver. Can't wait to see how everyone does. Good luck to all participating and have fun.

[Steve Ketron]

A new saying for M.A.R.C. :

"M.A.R.C., just as much fun as IRI at 1/2 the price", Does this sound like it would work?

[Adam Freeman]

A new saying for M.A.R.C. :

"M.A.R.C., just as much fun as IRI at 1/2 the price", Does this sound like it would work?

While true. I alway think of it as, what a great place to learn to drive before going to IRI.

[johnr]

" CAUTION- STUDENT DRIVERS" :D
" The Future Now"
Leave iri out of it. Stand on your own merits, because you can.

[TrevorJ]

"MARC: The Hottest Offseason Competition of the Summer"

[Craig Roys]

"MARC: The Hottest Offseason Competition of the Summer"

"Like"

[Debbie]

"MARC: The Hottest Offseason Competition of the Summer"

"Like"

Double Like

[GBK]

"MARC: The Hottest Offseason Competition of the Summer"

Don't think that could be more true!!

[atiaquatic]

Looking forward to another great time at MARC (although wish the pig was back)..We will be breaking in a rookie drive. As well as letting some team members get a chance to drive, just because it is fun.

Great event Steve,,, Thank you

[Jack Jones]

Why does it need a saying? Is it running for office of something?

[Steve Ketron]

Why does it need a saying? Is it running for office of something?

It doesn't and isn't running for office. I am just trying to get another conversation going besides bridge-points and who all is bringing rookie drivers. Not that people need to stop talking about those two topics.

Personally I like "MARC, the HOTTEST off-season competition of the summer". It has a little truth and swagger to it. Nice job Trevor.

[Clinton Bolinger]

I think IGVC is the Hottest Off Season Event or Wettest, depends on what Michigan weather wants to do.

We always have new drivers for the off season events.

-Clinton-

[Ed Law]

Then MARC should be the COOLNESS Off Season Competition of the summer.

[nikeairmancurry]

I think IGVC is the Hottest Off Season Event or Wettest, depends on what Michigan weather wants to do.

We always have new drivers for the off season events.

-Clinton-
Last year it was sort of both... Muddy pits and almost 100+ degree temps, plus an outdoor event...

[Steve Ketron]

In the past week a lot of really good teams have registered for this event. These are teams that have registered in the past and are becoming some of the cornerstones of M.A.R.C. Here is the updated list as of 5/07/12:

33
48
67
68
107
123
191
245
280
308
461
469
470
494
548
815
830
862
1675
1718
1918
2137
2337
2612
2832
2834
2851
3096
3098
3175
3302
3322
3357
3539
3547
3548
3641
4395

The following 12 teams are original participants (PLANK-OWNERS) and are automatically in the event:
51
70
226 (did not participate last year)(HAVE NOT RECEIVED VERBAL YET)
240
279
503
910
1023
1243
1504
1528
1732

[Ed Law]

Wow, that is an impressive list of teams. So far 43 Michigan teams and 6 non Michigan teams have registered. Out of the Michigan teams, the following top 64 teams in terms of state ranking after MSC have registered.

1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,11,12,14,15,19,20,21,25,29,32,35,3 7,38,41,42,44,53,60,64

Together with some very strong non Michigan teams, this is going to be a very competitive event.

[Steve Ketron]

I forgot to have 1732 added to the PLANK-OWNER list. They are an out of state team also.

[Steve Ketron]

ed, I noticed that I missed a couple more teams (1918,3539). So they won't be on your list.

[Travis Hoffman]

Steve:

When can we expect a more detailed agenda of the 2 days' worth of activities?

No rush - just curious.

[avanboekel]

2338 plans on attending (Ill make sure we get it in before the due date).

[Steve Ketron]

Steve:

When can we expect a more detailed agenda of the 2 days' worth of activities?

No rush - just curious.

Here is the projected agenda. Of course this is based on if we have any field problems.


2012 MARC Event Schedule

21-Jun-12
10am - 2pm Pit Set-up
2pm - 8pm Field Set-up/testing


22-Jun-12
11 am -2pm Team Registration and set-up
11:30pm - 1:45 pm Practice Begins
1:50pm -2:05 pm Drivers Meeting
2:10pm - 2:25pm Opening Comments
2:30pm - 7:30pm Qualification Matches
9:30pm Pits Close
7:30pm - 9:30pm Team Ice Cream Social

23-Jun-12
8am Pits Open
9am - 9:30am Opening Ceremony
9:30am-1:15pm Qualifying Matches
1:15pm -1:30pm Final Alliance Selection
1:30pm - 2:30pm Lunch Break
2:30pm - 4:30pm Eliminations Matches Begin
4:45pm Awards Ceremony
5:15pm Event Ends/Field Breakdown

FINALS: Top 8 seeds w/3 partners

SELECTION STYLE: 1-8,8-1,1-8 ALL robots on each alliance must play at least one match in the eliminations.

Attached is a copy for you.

[TNT280Staff]

So there is no scheduled lunch break on Friday?

[P.J.]

So there is no scheduled lunch break on Friday?

I would assume you would just eat sometime before matches start, since they don't begin until 2:30.

[Steve Ketron]

A couple good questions that were emailed to me that I thaught I should post here;

couple of questions under SELECTION STYLE:

(1) When all robots in a four team alliance must play once in eliminations, do you actually mean, once in each level: quarter's, semi's and final's ?
All robots must play at least once in the eliminations. If all four play in the quarters then you can play your three main ones the rest of the time.

(2) If one of the four REALLY breaks down to the point it cannot perform, how is that handled?
If one of your robot's breakdown for good then you have to play the other three for the rest of the competition. There are no other robots that are going to compete with your alliance.

Any other questions, please feel free to ask or post. Thanks

[Steve Ketron]

I would assume you would just eat sometime before matches start, since they don't begin until 2:30.

This is exactly what I was thinking. If issues come up we can make adjustments to the schedule. Remenber to remain flexible.

[GBK]

I did not see mentor matches in the schedule. Did that get dropped this year?

[Craig Roys]

A couple good questions that were emailed to me that I thaught I should post here;

couple of questions under SELECTION STYLE:

(1) When all robots in a four team alliance must play once in eliminations, do you actually mean, once in each level: quarter's, semi's and final's ?
All robots must play at least once in the eliminations. If all four play in the quarters then you can play your three main ones the rest of the time.

So, just to be clear, if you lose your 1st match of the QF, then you have to substitute in your 4th robot since there's a chance that you will only be playing one more game. Is this correct?

[GaryVoshol]

So, just to be clear, if you lose your 1st match of the QF, then you have to substitute in your 4th robot since there's a chance that you will only be playing one more game. Is this correct?

Yup, that's the way it will work. You can keep playing the same 3 robots as long as you keep winning. As soon as you lose a match, you have to play the other robot in the next match, because if you lose that one you would be out.

Of course you can swap robots each match if you want.

Since you only have to play a robot once, if it breaks in that match, you play the other 3 robots the rest of the time.

[Littleboy]

Yup, that's the way it will work. You can keep playing the same 3 robots as long as you keep winning. As soon as you lose a match, you have to play the other robot in the next match, because if you lose that one you would be out.

Of course you can swap robots each match if you want.

Since you only have to play a robot once, if it breaks in that match, you play the other 3 robots the rest of the time.
Or if you win every match up until finals 2, then you have to switch.

[nikeairmancurry]

Or do what we did in 2010, switch it up and have fun!

[kgalea]

BX will also be running a full rookie drive team. We are hoping to practice with them a little first.

If anyone is interested in coming down to Bedford Township (Temperance, MI) (on the border of Toledo, Ohio) and practicing on our field and bridge, let me know. :)

If I can wrangle up enough kids and get them motivated, I may give you a call to take you up on that. We are out of school on May 31 and will look at getting back into a regular practice schedule after that.

[Steve Ketron]

217, 302, and 3538 just submitted their applications.

[Koko Ed]

217, 302, and 3538 just submitted their applications.

My goodness. I think you guys just broke the 50 team barrier.

[avanboekel]

Just to clarify, when is the last day we can apply?

[Steve Ketron]

Just to clarify, when is the last day we can apply?

FRIDAY

[Travis Hoffman]

MARC had been a lot of fun so far, but I have to report the standings on the website appear to be inaccurate. We should be 3-2 with 12 QP, winning our last match with 469, scoring 89 points.

I would like to request an official posting of the rankings.

[Shu]

Yes, we noticed that also. We got credit for winning that match which moved us up to 3rd overall. We should be somewhere around 11th. 469 should be 3rd.

[GaryVoshol]

The results of each match have been recorded on paper. We can get the standings corrected tomorrow morning.

If any other matches have been recorded incorrectly, please see someone at the score table.

[akoscielski3]

Is there a Webcast Somewhere??

[Akash Rastogi]

Is there a Webcast Somewhere??

Here ya go http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1174884&postcount=84

[tr6scott]

Yes, there seems to be a significant errors in the reporting system online anyways. I am not at the event, but as stated our match 40 score is way off, I think our whole alliance scored 1 3-point in teleop. Watching online.

Also of note is the qualification points that are earned. Please note, that I did not keep up on the MARC rule changes, so if there were some spectacular change to how qualification points are awarded, please disregard.

But looking at Match 1 data published, there was no winner points awarded, every bot got the 2 pts. coopertition score.

Match 1
Red Alliance
Red 1: 830
Red 2: 494
Red 3: 245
Final score: 41
Unpenalized score: 41
Bonus: 20
Penalty: 0
Qualification points: 2
Coopertition points: 2
Hybrid Hoops: 0
Teleop Hoops: 21

Blue Alliance
Blue 1: 3539
Blue 2: 70
Blue 3: 3175
Final score: 12
Unpenalized score: 12
Bonus: 0
Penalty: 0
Qualification points: 2
Coopertition points: 2
Hybrid Hoops: 0
Teleop Hoops: 12


Match 4 says that there were no points awarded...

Match 4
Red Alliance
Red 1: 548
Red 2: 308
Red 3: 1718
Final score: 53
Unpenalized score: 50
Bonus: 20
Penalty: 0
Qualification points: 0
Coopertition points: 0
Hybrid Hoops: 6
Teleop Hoops: 24
Blue Alliance
Blue 1: 240
Blue 2: 191
Blue 3: 469
Final score: 54
Unpenalized score: 54
Bonus: 20
Penalty: 3
Qualification points: 0
Coopertition points: 0
Hybrid Hoops: 12
Teleop Hoops: 22

Match 8 both alliances earn two points with no coopertion?

Match 8
Red Alliance
Red 1: 862
Red 2: 3547
Red 3: 3641
Final score: 48
Unpenalized score: 45
Bonus: 20
Penalty: 9
Qualification points: 2
Coopertition points: 0
Hybrid Hoops: 17
Teleop Hoops: 8
Blue Alliance
Blue 1: 2832
Blue 2: 217
Blue 3: 107
Final score: 36
Unpenalized score: 27
Bonus: 10
Penalty: 3
Qualification points: 2
Coopertition points: 0
Hybrid Hoops: 12
Teleop Hoops: 5

[FoleyParent]

Alliance Selection:

(1) 469 - 68 - 2834 - 107
(2) 4294 - 1732 - 3641 - 1243
(3) 48 - 67 - 70 - 2851
(4) 1718 - 3322 - 910 - 862
(5) 2337 - 33 - 2137 - 217
(6) 3096 - 1918 - 494 - 548
(7) 245 - 3302 - 3098 - 4395
(8) 1504 - 51 - 1023 - 503

Elimination rounds begin at 2:30pm

[Gregor]

469, 68, and 2834 just tripled for 112 points!

[GaryVoshol]

Results:

1 d. 8
5 d. 4
7 d. 2
6 d. 3 (3 matches)

1 d. 5
7 d. 6 (3 matches)

1 d. 7


Note: 302 regretfully declined the first alliance's second pick, because their robot was not working.

[O'Sancheski]

Results:

1 d. 8
5 d. 4
7 d. 2
6 d. 3 (3 matches)

1 d. 5
7 d. 2 (3 matches)

1 d. 7


Note: 302 regretfully declined the first alliance's second pick, because their robot was not working.

How can 7 defeat 2 twice? Did you mean 7 defeated 6?

[Anupam Goli]

Results:

1 d. 8
5 d. 4
7 d. 2
6 d. 3 (3 matches)

1 d. 5
7 d. 2 (3 matches)

1 d. 7


Note: 302 regretfully declined the first alliance's second pick, because their robot was not working.

Intense, the playoffs were. however, my fantasy picks were all eliminated in the first round, yet I had the first pick. =/

[Tom Line]

469, 68, and 2834 just tripled for 112 points!

I believe they tripled in every match but one. In that match, they had well over 90 points just from baskets, with no balance at all. Insane.

[GaryVoshol]

How can 7 defeat 2 twice? Did you mean 7 defeated 6?

Yes, 7 d. 6. I'll fix my post.

[IndySam]

I believe they tripled in every match but one. In that match, they had well over 90 points just from baskets, with no balance at all. Insane.

I believe it was 93 basket points, amazing.

[Brian Ha]

While Team 302 did decline, yes after much debate we decided this was the best way to go seeing as how we could not find the issue. Afterwards we luckily did find the issue. (One of our pwm cables was nearly shredded to bits because it was being rubbed too much) We would like to thank Team 469, Team 68, Team 2834, and Team 107 for offering us the chance to have joined them, and also congrat them on their outstanding victory.

[JosephC]

I'd like to thank 469, 2834, and 107 for being great elimination partners, as well as 302 [glad too see you got your robot working again!]. Shoutouts go to anyone who coop'd or played with us.

The competition at MARC was intense, even with many teams having Rookie drive teams, and I can't wait to see you guys next year. As for now, see you guys at IRI and Kettering Kickoff!