Screws, Tape, and other Electronic securities

[CalTran]

We use double-sided tape to secure electronics much of the time, and we got ahold of a few different kinds of VHB tape this year. The one used in the below picture wasn't the type composed of foam, it's extremely thin and transparent. I haven't found a link to it yet.

http://i.imgur.com/zRK6e.jpg

The Crio was taped to the crossbar on the underside of the robot. The bar was pocketed and the remaining material was only slightly narrower than the width of the tape (about 3/4 of an inch). If you look at the pattern visible beside the Crio, you can probably estimate the total amount of tape we used. In our testing before the final mounting, it took a significant amount of force to break the bond even without even scuffing the anodized finish of the bar. It gave us no problems through the entirety of the season and the weekend in New Hampshire.

I asked in a previous thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=102498) about how a team uses "VHB" tape and found a curious answer. This spurred my interest and, being a post Head of Electrical for my team, got me wondering about how other teams secure their electronics.

For as long as I can remember, our team has used the screw holes in the motor controllers and other various electronics, save for the d-Link. The d-Link we Velcro-ed to the robot due to the necessity to remove it every now and again. As far as mounting them, we've gone through everything from wood to polycarb to polyethylene (this year).

Thoughts, comments, critiques on our practices?

[hammerhead_399]

This year, we used the perforated lexan found on AndyMark for our electronics board(each hole was about 1/4"). Most electronics were held down by zipties, and lucky enough, most screw holes lined up with the perforated lexan holes. For the cRIO, we used the screw holes to bolt it down. We also used Velcro for the D-Link. Never this year did we solely tape down an electronic unless it was for testing. On the electronics board, we color coded the zipties that held down certain wires(a color for power cables, a color for data cables). Most wiring done outside the electronics board was organized using spiral wrap.

[R.C.]

We used to use velcro for electronics till we started to make the "254/233" style belly pan. Ever since then we use bolts and tap the bellypan for the appropriate fastener.

We use this very strong double sided VHB. Its a black with a red shielding. Our sponsor uses it on their lighting fixtures, so they donate a good size roll to us every year.

We use VHB on anything that can't be held down with bolts. Such as the radio and other misc parts on the robot.

-RC

[CalTran]

We use VHB on anything that can't be held down with bolts. Such as the radio and other misc parts on the robot.
-RC

On that note, how does it fare to being taken off and put back on? Is there any residue or difficulties in removal? Velcro work for us, but occasionally we have longevity issues in the repeated application and removal, resulting in the potential failure in mounting.

[R.C.]

On that note, how does it fare to being taken off and put back on? Is there any residue or difficulties in removal? Velcro work for us, but occasionally we have longevity issues in the repeated application and removal, resulting in the potential failure in mounting.

To remove it you have to literally twist it off, its held on there really really really darn well.

Once its removed, you can remove the excess, spray some brake cleaner or water and remove the residue.

More or less, when we apply VHB, we expect to never take it off again. Its been great for the radio/lexan in certain spots and misc other items.

In 2011, we used VHB tape to keep our steel strip on our minibot ramp down.

Its also great for pulling pranks :P (taping the toolbox shut and taping my coke can to a desk, silly kids)

-RC

[Aidan S.]

This year and the previous year, Team 610 has used 1/8 inch lexan as an electronics panel. We use bolts to secure the cRio, but all of the other components are held on with zip ties. The zip ties allow us to quickly remove and replace components, which is very helpful during competitions. The zip ties also save a bit of weight over using screws. We manually lay out our components on the panel, mark where the mounting holes are. Then we will remove the components, and drill the mounting holes using a power drill or a drill press.

Neatness is very important for out electrical team, so we do a few of things to keep our system clean and organized. All of our components are labeled, and the wires are labeled at both ends, to allow us to trace connections for troubleshooting and programming purposes. Our wires are kept to exact length, with no excess, and held to the panel using sticky feet and zip ties. All of our wires are run parallel to the frame, so there are no diagonal runs. This adds some length to the wires but keeps them more organized and collected. On moving attachments such as arms or turrets, we will collect all of the wires using some type of wire wrap or energy chain.

I have attached an image of the base panel of our 2012 robot to highlight some of our wiring techniques.

[Botwoon]

On that note, how does it fare to being taken off and put back on? Is there any residue or difficulties in removal? Velcro work for us, but occasionally we have longevity issues in the repeated application and removal, resulting in the potential failure in mounting.

This depends entirely upon the tape. The VHB tape we used for the Crio is intended to be permanent. We initially used it to attach our radio to the robot as well, which nearly separated the two halves of the radio's plastic shell when we had to remove it.

If you look at the lexan chainguards running along the underside of the robot, you can see the thicker gray VHB tape holding them to the frame. That stuff is very nearly as good as the transparent tape, and retains most of it's stickiness after one or two removals.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Spectrum normally uses dual-lock (http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Profile-Reclosable-Fastener/dp/B004O99BGM/ref=pd_cp_indust_1) (like velcro but none of the fuzzy side, they use it on the lego league tables) and zip-ties for our electronics. We haven't had any problems with them. The cRIO normally gets bolted down since we don't switch it to often.

[gracie.]

Just the idea of taping on the cRIO makes me nervous, but maybe for no reason, since it sounds like the tape you guys are using is pretty hardcore stuff.

We usually screw everything down and velcro the wireless bridge (and anything that gets changed around at competition). I'd swap the quicker removal of velcro for the security of screws any day. This year we got the opportunity to laser-cut our board our of plastic~! (.25" ABS to be specific) We pounded threaded inserts into the lasered holes, and screwed in the electronics that way. It was great!!! But a word of advice if you try it: super glue your inserts in addition to pressing them in. You won't regret it later when you're trying to remove your electronics :P
on a side note- a really cool thing we got to do with the laser cutter was raster labels for all the components. Completely unnecessary, but really cool.

[DonRotolo]

We used to bolt/screw everything down, but this past season we used velcro - hook & loop type - for everything but the battery. Heavier stuff like the cRio got more square inches than light stuff like Jaguars. Never had anything come off when we didn't want it to, and swapping out Jags was a cinch. We'll probably do that again next year.

[theawesome1730]

As a member of Team Driven's electrical team, I can be very specific in what we do. We chose to use water jet cut lexan for our electronics baseplate with tapped holes for nylon bolts. The are strong enough, light and easy to remove and do a good job of holding everything down. As for the radio we use velcro since it needs to be removed often and the crio is held on with bolts.

[Botwoon]

Just the idea of taping on the cRIO makes me nervous, but maybe for no reason, since it sounds like the tape you guys are using is pretty hardcore stuff.

We were nervous about it until this match to be quite honest, which was late into our division elims. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh7Vz2-OTPc&feature=player_detailpage#t=47s)

[pmangels17]

271 uses two pieces of 1/4 inch clear corriboard, with channels running perpendicular. Then we screw in our stuff with 10-24's. Dont drill pilot holes or tap it, just press and screw. The CRIO got nuts and washers as well. Its lightweight, insulated, and clean looking. Also, its strong and panels of it can be placed anywhere on the robot. We create multiple electronic "penthouses" on the robot where everything is easily accessible. Also, keep wires organized with labels at both ends, and stick pads with zip ties. Although, taping soda cans may become more common :D

[gracie.]

We were nervous about it until this match to be quite honest, which was late into our division elims. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh7Vz2-OTPc&feature=player_detailpage#t=47s)

If it survives jumping off a bridge and crashing into another robot, I guess that would give me a bit more piece of mind :D We'll still probably end up using screws though, if only because we couldn't afford to replace our cRIO if some harm came to it.

[sanddrag]

We used nylon socket head cap screws into 1/8" ABS, and velcro for the radio. Worked great, but you have to be careful when tapping the 1/8" ABS.

[Botwoon]

Is anyone here familiar with how the Robonauts achieved the "snap-in" victor mounts featured in the beginning of this video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJBC-DDL9w) I thought it was pretty ace the first time I saw it, and I'd love to see how they did it.

I know it's the summer, but if anyone from the Robonauts has pictures of the mounts, could you post them up here?

[yarden.saa]

This year, my team(3339) did not have any elecronics board.
The Jags were ziptied in pairs and we just put them on a 90 degree aluminium. It was easy to remove them by hand but they never fell off! (because of friction)

photos (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.476733265686235.129060.229291670430397&type=3) of our robot electronics.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Matt,
Frequently teams will use velcro to attach components. We have in the past. Please don't be fooled by the coincidence of the power coming on when the victor is pushed into place. It was already wired.

[z_beeblebrox]

This year, we (4183) was very successful using heavy-duty Velcro to secure our speed controllers to the robot's aluminum belly pan. Our C-RIO (I'm not sure about the capitalization :ahh: ) was bolted onto a piece of plywood, along with our bridge. We had no issues with any of our electronics attachments. In the future, however, we are probably going to mount all the electronics to one board for easier access and neater wiring.

[Bryce Paputa]

We used quarter inch corrugated polycarbonate sheeting for our board, and nylon bolts/nuts on most of the stuff, with "industrial" velcro on the rest. Both fastening methods worked great and the board was pretty light. The only (slight) issue we had with it was drilling into the polycarb, we couldn't get the holes smooth because of the material's thinness.

[Jon Stratis]

This year was one of our best electrical boards. We took a thin piece of Lexan and bent up each side. This was then attached through a hinge on one side and some bolts (with rivet nuts in the frame) on the other to the bottom of our robot, forming the bottom pan. Everything was bolted onto that using button heads to ensure they wouldn't catch on the carpet. It provided a very clean look, while being very serviceable (pull out a couple of bolts and the board swung down with no robot parts in the way). Just about every other electrical board we've had, we've had to work around other robot components... designing it to just swing down and out completely solves that problem!

[Siri]

This year was one of our best electrical boards. We took a thin piece of Lexan and bent up each side. This was then attached through a hinge on one side and some bolts (with rivet nuts in the frame) on the other to the bottom of our robot, forming the bottom pan. Everything was bolted onto that using button heads to ensure they wouldn't catch on the carpet. It provided a very clean look, while being very serviceable (pull out a couple of bolts and the board swung down with no robot parts in the way). Just about every other electrical board we've had, we've had to work around other robot components... designing it to just swing down and out completely solves that problem!Very cool. But doesn't it force you to use longer wires between the hinged board and the main robot? (I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, just checking that I understand you and/or how you handled it.)

[Jon Stratis]

That depends on how you route your wires :) If you look at each motor and wire individually, you might be tempted to run it from the motor to the frame however is easiest, then leave enough slack so it can stretch when you open the board.

However, if you plan ahead, you can run all of your motor wires down the same side of the robot and then directly across the hinge. Now, instead of needing to stretch "up" when you unhinge the board, they simply rotate with the hinge and everything stays neat and tied down. This way, there is very little, if any, extra wire needed for this design. Note that a prerequisite for this design is a neat board, not a rats nest of loose wires!

As a bonus, this design makes it a lot easier for inspectors to check off the electrical section of the robot, as you can open it up for inspection and they can easily see everything!

[CalTran]

This year was one of our best electrical boards. We took a thin piece of Lexan and bent up each side. This was then attached through a hinge on one side and some bolts (with rivet nuts in the frame) on the other to the bottom of our robot, forming the bottom pan. Everything was bolted onto that using button heads to ensure they wouldn't catch on the carpet. It provided a very clean look, while being very serviceable (pull out a couple of bolts and the board swung down with no robot parts in the way). Just about every other electrical board we've had, we've had to work around other robot components... designing it to just swing down and out completely solves that problem!

Mr. Stratis, you wouldn't happen to have any pictures of this set up, would you? I'm having trouble envisioning a robot with enough ground clearance (or ground clearance in an accessible spot) where a bellypan can fold down. I do like your method of wiring it correctly rather than the easiest method.

[Botwoon]

Mr. Stratis, you wouldn't happen to have any pictures of this set up, would you? I'm having trouble envisioning a robot with enough ground clearance (or ground clearance in an accessible spot) where a bellypan can fold down. I do like your method of wiring it correctly rather than the easiest method.

Well you really wouldn't need any ground clearance, it's easy enough to just flip it over on it's side or make a stand that gives you the clearance you need.

We actually used a similar concept this year, only on the top of the robot rather than the bottom. The PDB, IO Board, and a Jags sat on top of a hinged piece of aluminum. The other end of it was held down by 3 10-24s, which also held on the rear lexan shield. The rest of the Jags sat on a second plate underneath the hinged plate. I don't have a picture of the top plate, but I do have one of everything that sat beneath it.

http://i.imgur.com/Lbg87.jpg

[Jon Stratis]

I think this is the best picture I have available:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/a56/a564424245548714eff14ac2464d78e1_m.jpg (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/37389)

The pan drops down from the KoP frame 1 inch, and we used standard 6-inch wheels. In order to drop the pan, you have to tilt the robot on its side. A small inconvenience, but considering how rarely we need to access it during competition, it's an acceptable one.

What you can't see here is how all of the pieces fit together on top. The cRio fits between the CIM motors for the drivetrain, with the 4 Jaguars for those motors sitting directly under the motors themselves (without the hinged design, this would be a service nightmare). The PDB and DSC are the most accessible/visible while the board is up, as the LEDs built into them are important for quick diagnosing of issues. The Victors sit under the ball collector, with just enough clearance to fit. We ended up adding a fifth Jaguar in the big empty space later (at this time, we weren't sure if we wanted a single Jaguar or two Victors, the mechanical design wasn't complete).

All together, if there had been any serious issues, the board really isn't serviceable from the top, it has to be dropped down. This design did help us get a lot of weight very low in the robot - otherwise, we would have had to build it more vertically and had a higher center of gravity.

[Ernst]

We used a Garolite sheet (http://www.mcmaster.com/#garolite/=idlfes) as a base for our electronics. After going through some plywood prototypes to determine the ideal configuration to use short wires, maintain neatness and accessibility, and keep everything arranged logically (with the power distribution board being close to the battery and breaker, the C-RIO being close to the DIO, etc.) we started arranging the components on our Garolite. We drilled holes that lined up with the components' holes. We added foam tape (http://www.amazon.com/Frost-R734H-Sponge-Rubber-16-Inch/dp/B0000CBIFD/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1342122819&sr=8-11&keywords=foam+tape) to the electronics before attaching them snugly (but not too tight) with zip ties, to effectively shock mount them. The zip ties proved effective, allowing us to easily remove and swap parts, but not breaking randomly. We used zip tie squares (http://www.amazon.com/Startech-HC102-Adhesive-Cable-Mounts/dp/B00008VFBE) for cable management.

Overall, our electronics board this year was successful. The worst failure we had was a loose Wago connection.

Note: The products that I listed are not exactly what we used, but are fairly similar. I couldn't quickly find exactly what we used.

[gracie.]

We used a Garolite sheet (http://www.mcmaster.com/#garolite/=idlfes) as a base for our electronics. After going through some plywood prototypes to determine the ideal configuration to use short wires, maintain neatness and accessibility, and keep everything arranged logically (with the power distribution board being close to the battery and breaker, the C-RIO being close to the DIO, etc.) we started arranging the components on our Garolite. We drilled holes that lined up with the components' holes. We added foam tape (http://www.amazon.com/Frost-R734H-Sponge-Rubber-16-Inch/dp/B0000CBIFD/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1342122819&sr=8-11&keywords=foam+tape) to the electronics before attaching them snugly (but not too tight) with zip ties, to effectively shock mount them. The zip ties proved effective, allowing us to easily remove and swap parts, but not breaking randomly. We used zip tie squares (http://www.amazon.com/Startech-HC102-Adhesive-Cable-Mounts/dp/B00008VFBE) for cable management.

Overall, our electronics board this year was successful. The worst failure we had was a loose Wago connection.

Note: The products that I listed are not exactly what we used, but are fairly similar. I couldn't quickly find exactly what we used.

You guys might like using CAD. We didn't have components to spare to rearrange and figure out the best configuration (and I was to lazy to do the whole paper-method thing), but downloading the parts from the online KOP library and moving them around the board was really nice!

I'm starting to like the sound of the zip-ties and tape.... They seem so convenient! It's never something our team's really done, but we could try it out next year.