View Full Version : 2013 Game Hint!
Tottanka
11-10-2012, 15:45
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-10-11-12
directs to this photo:
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg
Let the fun begin.
Jared Russell
11-10-2012, 15:47
The GDC are no strangers to love.
LightSpeedIII
11-10-2012, 15:53
The GDC are no strangers to love.
They know the rules, but we do not.
A third alliance on the field? The yellow alliance?
This hint has me rolling.
Steven Donow
11-10-2012, 15:54
This has been removed. Consider this a warning.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk)
DMetalKong
11-10-2012, 15:56
A third alliance on the field? The yellow alliance?
This hint has me rolling.
Or the other member of the blue alliance got a yellow card for poor singing.
Rick Astley is an anagram for "Real Sticky"... take that as you will.
Another anagram is "Cry, it's lake!" WATER GAME.
Steven Donow
11-10-2012, 15:59
Rick Astley is an anagram for "Real Sticky"... take that as you will.
Hardcore Robotics Pick-Up Sticks.
DMetalKong
11-10-2012, 16:01
Rick Astley is an anagram for "Real Sticky"... take that as you will.
It is also an anagram for 'A Slick Tyre' -> Slick -> Wet -> Water Game!
(Sorry, I had to)
MARS_James
11-10-2012, 16:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk
That made me smile more than the hint, but I am more interested in that it is on a cork board. Though the scouter in me would love the chance to scout a 3v3v3 game (Red, Blue, and Yellow)
It is also an anagram for 'A Slick Tyre' -> Slick -> Wet -> Water Game!
Don't say that it makes me think of lunacy which is not well thought of on my team
Brandon Zalinsky
11-10-2012, 16:03
Not appropriate. Consider this a warning.
Rangel(kf7fdb)
11-10-2012, 16:04
It seems they included the metal bar/edge of the board as well. The metal bar kind of resembles a pole. Could this be a symbol that mini-bots are returning?
3v3v3 does sound interesting. Anyone have ideas as to how that would work for QFs through Finals? A possible change to the 8 alliance system?
It is also an anagram for 'A Slick Tyre' -> Slick -> Wet -> Water Game!
(Sorry, I had to)
...
"I Lack Tyres".
http://i.imgur.com/nl0rl.png
Frank was reading this discussion. He is now rolling on the floor laughing at us, saying "next time I'll send them pictures of Rorschach inkblot tests, that would be hilarious".
TinEye gives back zero hits.
billbo911
11-10-2012, 16:07
Dang, been "Rick rolled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)" again!
"Never Gonna Give You Up"
Rangel(kf7fdb)
11-10-2012, 16:11
One other thing too. Andymark just released a new wheel they will be rolling into their warehouse on their Facebook page.
Quoted from Facebook Page:
"We have a new wheel rolling into our warehouse four you!"
Picture of wheel:
http://i.imgur.com/YY1fM.jpg
This could easily have nothing to do with next year's game but still.
I'm also seeing the word "roll" a lot as well.:D
Tottanka
11-10-2012, 16:13
One other thing too. Andymark just released a new wheel they will be rolling into their warehouse on their Facebook page.
Quoted from Facebook Page:
"We have a new wheel rolling into our warehouse four you!"
Picture of wheel:
http://i.imgur.com/YY1fM.jpg
This could easily have nothing to do with next year's game but still.
I'm also seeing the word "roll" a lot as well.:D
Looks like the Lunacy wheel material.
Jon Stratis
11-10-2012, 16:15
Without increasing the size of the field (which would potentially have major venue problems for established regionals), I don't think we'll ever see 3v3v3 - the field can already get cramped (at times) with only 6 robots!
that said, 2v2v2 is possible. You could even fit 4 stations on one side of the field, and two on the other - in other words, there would be minimal need to change the field design/layout, which would help reduce costs.
I could see that leading to an interesting strategy game... Coopertition points for all 3 alliances if at least two alliances do X together, but if 2 alliances do it, it gives the third alliance an advantage in scoring. That could create an interesting dynamic between trying to score a lot of points and needing to get coopertition points for seeing placement (if seeding went with the same win/loss/coopertition structure as this year). Would we see a situation where the three alliances agree to coopertate ONLY if all 3 participate equally, given the scoring advantage to no one?
Andrew Lawrence
11-10-2012, 16:15
3rd alliance? Lunacy-looking wheel? Rick Astley? The GDC is trolling us.
Or at least...I hope they are.
Edit: They know the rules...and so do I. ;)
Jared Russell
11-10-2012, 16:16
TinEye gives back zero hits.
The photo is an original. Taken at 9:42 (Eastern) this morning, in New Hampshire, with an HTC Evo 4g smartphone. Good old exif.
(my code is compiling, give me a break)
avanboekel
11-10-2012, 16:18
Looks like the Lunacy wheel material.
I don't think so. You can see a bit of rubber that spilled from the mold towards the top left. The material from a lunacy wheel wouldn't do that. And why would they make a wheel with no traction in the same form of as a high traction wheel. I'm not sure what the deal is with the color change, but I think that's a 4 inch wheel.
(my code is compiling, give me a break)
http://xkcd.com/303/
Screenshot is from about 3:00 into the music video. Welp, that's it. Third alliance confirmed.
MARS_James
11-10-2012, 16:23
And why would they make a wheel with no traction in the same form of as a high traction wheel. I'm not sure what the deal is with the color change, but I think that's a 4 inch wheel.
It is another hint first stealthily gave us, 2v2v2 alliances with a larger lunacy goal and it is played like Zone Zeal where everyone has a home zone. (Hence the color and the high traction to assist in pulling the goal.)
Andrew Lawrence
11-10-2012, 16:23
Screenshot is from about 3:00 into the music video. Welp, that's it. Third alliance confirmed.
A reoccurrence of the number 3 can mean anything, and even then, it could just be a big troll. 3 could relate to the field, a game element, a rule, etc.
I'd hate to state the obvious here...but I believe that we all just got Rick-rolled...
rcmolloy
11-10-2012, 16:25
GDC, you guys do so little to manipulate all of our minds. :)
As far as an actual interpretation, my current bet is on the earlier idea of "You know the rules, and so do i". Maybe a close rehash of a previous game with some added coopertition thing.
edit: Rick N' Roll
Mike Rizzo
11-10-2012, 16:26
Screenshot is from about 3:00 into the music video. Welp, that's it. Third alliance confirmed.
3:00 mins in to the video, maybe the matches are going to be 3 mins long now?
avanboekel
11-10-2012, 16:27
Screenshot is from about 3:00 into the music video. Welp, that's it. Third alliance confirmed.
actually, exactly 3:00
http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg524/avanboekel/rick.png
I'm thinking the repetition of threes may be more likely tetras or something similar than a third alliance, although that would be an awesome change up!
Tommy F.
11-10-2012, 16:41
Considering that a rick roll is used to troll people and that the picture is taken 3:00 into the video...
and for the past however many years a match has been 3:15...
What if... they're taking away autonomous mode. :eek:
3 colors 3 min in to the video, and were due for a arm/ weird object game. I feeling triple play 2.0?
Considering that a rick roll is used to troll people and that the picture is taken 3:00 into the video...
and for the past however many years a match has been 3:15...
What if... they're taking away autonomous mode. :eek:
A match is 2:15...
and for the past however many years a match has been 3:15...
Matches are 2:15. As mentioned before, possibly adding another minute to matches?
Everyone is predicting a three alliance game, but, there are 4 thumbtacks. To me, it seems like there are 4 separate colors: Red, Yellow, Blue, and Orange. Maybe then it will be 1v1v1v1, or 2v2v2v2? 8 teams on the field at once would mean more matches per team given the current schedule, but that may be too many teams on the field at one time, though...
3 colors 3 min in to the video, and were due for a arm/ weird object game. I feeling triple play 2.0?
I'm agreeing with the triple play 2.0. They did Rack 'N Roll, then went back another year to Aim High, and now they should be going back another year for Triple Play. I'm a bit skeptical about adding a third alliance simply because they've spent so many years on the 3v3 concept that it might take too much of a field change to add more alliances.
Nick Lawrence
11-10-2012, 16:49
Trackballs return.
You read it here first.
-Nick
MARS_James
11-10-2012, 16:50
Trackballs return.
-Nick
I am curious as to what lead to that assumption
Screenshot is from about 3:00 into the music video. Welp, that's it. Third alliance confirmed.
In 2003 Rick Astley released his compilation album "3 Originals" including the very first song on the list, "Never gonna give you up."
2003 was Stack Attack... please no...
Also worth pointing out that Stack Attack was played 2v2 so would it really be out of the question to return to the stacking idea of scoring (Last time it was even kind of used was 2005) and adding a third alliance to make it 2v2v2 could make it a very modern version of Stack Attack. Someone else mentioned the Aluminum bar at the top as well, I'm thinking 2003 field but in a triangle formation with a triangle mound in the middle, with a 2004 end game bar in a triangular shape over the top to hang on in the end.
All I have to say is... no more boxes please....
Jon Stratis
11-10-2012, 16:53
Everyone is predicting a three alliance game, but, there are 4 thumbtacks. To me, it seems like there are 4 separate colors: Red, Yellow, Blue, and Orange. Maybe then it will be 1v1v1v1, or 2v2v2v2? 8 teams on the field at once would mean more matches per team given the current schedule, but that may be too many teams on the field at one time, though...
Orange? The two pins on the left are the exact same color (ignoring lighting and angle/reflection differences).
ZipTie3182
11-10-2012, 16:54
The whole "following the repeat" trend of it being time for triple play (2007&2011 , 2006&2012" is kind of a stretch...I don't think the GDC follows patterns that closely. As engineers we're always trying to find ways to understand the system in which the game is chosen but it's really whatever meets the GDC's goals and is a combination between crazy and fun :)
Speculate on though...I love reading it!
-Anna
nahstobor
11-10-2012, 16:56
Aim High II, with longer periods. I'm glad to hear FIRST is replaying the best game.
Thank you GDC!
Mike Rizzo
11-10-2012, 16:59
Sorry I try not to post unless the info might be useful but is it just me of does the bottom left tack look like a thumbtack(flat) and the others look like pushpins?
"never gonna give you up", they are bringing back failed concepts from the past. We are going to have a kinect, minibot, and lunacy wheels.
Brandon Zalinsky
11-10-2012, 17:03
"never gonna give you up", they are bringing back failed concepts from the past. We are going to have a kinect, minibot, and lunacy wheels.
Best idea yet
MARS_Batista
11-10-2012, 17:05
Now I understand that I do not know a lot it being only my second year. But i am a bit concerned about the cage-like background. Could we be looking at a multi-level cage match?
"never gonna give you up", they are bringing back failed concepts from the past. We are going to have a kinect, minibot, and lunacy wheels.
Don't forget the Xv0 and stacking bins.
And extra bonuses placed just outside the field.
And pressure pads.
And lighted vision targets.
And just for good measure, a ridiculously small endgame bonus.
BrendanB
11-10-2012, 17:06
"never gonna give you up", they are bringing back failed concepts from the past. We are going to have a kinect, minibot, and lunacy wheels.
:mad: Not a fan of those three items!
AcesJames
11-10-2012, 17:07
Best idea yet
Or worst, depending on how much you liked plastic wheels, cheap motors prone to burning out, and using motion-sensing videogame controllers for driving robots.
:rolleyes:
billbo911
11-10-2012, 17:07
Since many of you are stuck on the concept of 3s:
Hockey is a 3 period game, with 3 zones.
(Aim High had 3 periods after Auton.)
The 3 colors represent two alliances, red and blue, and the active goal on the field, yellow.
Just my $.03.
MARS_James
11-10-2012, 17:07
And just for good measure, a ridiculously small endgame bonus.
Which game are you referring to with that?
Steven Sigley
11-10-2012, 17:11
I see things a little more like this:
3 pushpins: one red, one blue, one yellow.
3 alliances, but what if they were 1 robot each.
3 minutes into the video for the screenshot giving 3 minute matches as predicted. 3 robots on a field gives room for 2 smaller fields. Which does not disrupt event flow.
More time to play, less reliance on teammates, more individual success.
Maybe that 4th pin which is red but not a pushpin plays a major role.
Also Rack n Roll similar to Rick Roll
Which game are you referring to with that?
Triple Play. 10 points for getting all three robots completely behind a line that ran along at the points of the 3 home row goals. (Incidentally, the area was big enough for 4 robots... if you took the time to put them in. 2 robots started in the area, and one was out on the center home goal.) One tetra placed during that time could usually score 13 points if in the right place; if you really got lucky, 23 points, not counting the potential -20 to the opponents, so up to a 43-point swing if you didn't bother to go for 10 points.
Oh, and BTW: the hallmark of all the game hints for Triple Play was a very high tendency to the number 3.
Drennael
11-10-2012, 17:21
Red, Yellow, and Blue are PRIMARY COLORS. I'm not sure what this might mean; I'll leave it to others to speculate. (Although when I first saw the yellow, I immediately thought of the yellow tubes in LogoMotion...)
Additionally, I'm pretty sure that the bottom left pin IS also a pushpin; you can see a faint shadow at the edge of the photo border, which corresponds with the angle of the other pushpin shadows. (Plus, non-pushpins tend to leave more of an indent. I could be wrong, though.)
apples000
11-10-2012, 17:26
The picture has GPS coordinates in its metadata.... It points near DEKA in New Hampshire, but not quite in the building.
<exif:GPSTimeStamp>2012-10-11T12:00:00Z</exif:GPSTimeStamp><exif:FocalLength>431/100</exif:FocalLength><exif:GPSAltitude>0/1000</exif:GPSAltitude><exif:GPSLatitude>42,59.3962166666664416N</exif:GPSLatitude><exif:GPSLongitude>71,28.0756833333332907W</exif:GPSLongitude><exif:ExifVersion>0220</exif:ExifVersion><exif:GPSAltitudeRef>0</exif:GPSAltitudeRef><exif:DateTimeOriginal>2012-10-11T13:42:34Z</exif:DateTimeOriginal><exif:ISOSpeed>32</exif:ISOSpeed></rdf:Description><tiff:make>HTC</tiff:make><tiff:model>HTCEVOV4G</tiff:model></rdf:Description></rdf:RDF></xmp:xmpmeta>
MARS_Batista
11-10-2012, 17:30
O.K. this is my second year with FIRST. Now I see there is a lot of talk about previous year games. We must remember this is a new game we must look at the big PICTURE. Literally look at the picture. I believe that the material in the back is a cage material. Above the picture there is a red and yellow alliance. Then below is a red and blue alliance. Now this is just a thought. We could be looking at a multiple level game.
efoote868
11-10-2012, 17:39
http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/86/861f60b8_implied-facepalm.jpg
GDC pretty much Rick Roll's you guys and in 2 hours we've already got 51 comments?
DMetalKong
11-10-2012, 17:49
http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/86/861f60b8_implied-facepalm.jpg
GDC pretty much Rick Roll's you guys and in 2 hours we've only got 51 comments?
FYP
nathannfm
11-10-2012, 17:53
Not that it helps much but the picture seems to be genuine, it still has metadata on it. It was taken today (10/11/2012) at 9:42am with an HTC EVO 4G at these GPS coordinates 42.989937, -71.467928 (google map) http://bit.ly/ReaHbF
::rtm:: I think triple play 2.0 is likely a this point but instead of 2005 and tetras and in 2009 orbit balls its time for 2013 and the rectangle shape could hint as a cube you have to stack or rectangle prisms.
Assuming that we're not being rick rolled by the GDC (a big assumption I might add), I'm taking a literal interpretation of that photo. The song is titled "Never Gonna Give You Up" and that is also the line being sung at 3:00 when this photo was taken. That to me implies some sort of control aspect to the game, either over a game piece or field object.
If we're insistent on FIRST reusing a game element two that come quickly to mind that fit the bill are king of the hill (Stack Attack :ahh: ) and trackballs (as already suggested by Nick).
Suitster
11-10-2012, 18:18
There's the line right after 3:00,
"Never gonna let you down"
ascension endgame?
Akash Rastogi
11-10-2012, 18:39
This is just the GDC telling you to know the rules.
We know the game and we're gonna play it.
Could inclusion of the microphone in the clip be an indication of a voice command assisted autonomous mode?
And pressure pads.
What was the problem with these?
What was the problem with these?
Depends on the year. They were used in 2003 and 2005.
2003: Human players returned to them after stacking bins on the field. Automode started when ALL the pads were active; the humans then returned behind the glass as the pads were not used again.
2005: Human players started on the pads, then jumped off of them carrying tetras and ran out to another area of the field, then ran back. But when the human was off the pad, the robot of that human was disabled.
The biggest problem was stopping on the pad from a dead sprint (because naturally you want the robot moving as much as possible. It's not easy to do. I think at some offseasons in 2005, the pad was replaced with a hand button.
Depends on the year. They were used in 2003 and 2005.
2003: Human players returned to them after stacking bins on the field. Automode started when ALL the pads were active; the humans then returned behind the glass as the pads were not used again.
2005: Human players started on the pads, then jumped off of them carrying tetras and ran out to another area of the field, then ran back. But when the human was off the pad, the robot of that human was disabled.
The biggest problem was stopping on the pad from a dead sprint (because naturally you want the robot moving as much as possible. It's not easy to do. I think at some offseasons in 2005, the pad was replaced with a hand button.
Was the problem the pads themselves, or the fact the the human player could disable the robot? I'd like to see something like that, but if the pressure pads weren't sensitive enough/too sensitive/had other problems, what else could be used?
My school had Rick Roll grams this week for homecoming... that means we're going to win championships.
CrazyHorse
11-10-2012, 19:13
Libby Kamen just posted on FaceBook, "This is probably just a little one to get your feet wet." Obviously Libby just told us it is a water game. :D
BlacksmithWoods
11-10-2012, 19:18
Remember Rick Roll, Rack and Roll? The end game bonus of Rack and Roll was for a robot to lift its partner(s) off the ground, (and never let them down...?) I wouldn't mind another shot at that.
Pauline Tasci
11-10-2012, 19:23
the pins are weird. 1 flat and 3 bigger pins
I don't know about the hint, but I could definitely see a return of placing things in/on high goals a la 2000 or 2005.
davidthefat
11-10-2012, 19:26
Never gonna give you up came out in 87; FIRST had first game in 91. 4 years apart. 2013 minus 4 is 2009. 2009 is Lunacy. But this year, Mars themed, but close to Lunacy with Tetras because 3 of the pins are regular pins, but the 3rd is thumbtack. 3 minute screen shot. 3-3-3 is tetra.
Edit: NVM... First season was 92
3 alliances, 2 bots each, red, yellow, blue. You have to switch the goal (thumbtack) to your color in order to roll your game piece in.
Although now we will have to build three sets of bumpers, ack
rmhooks573
11-10-2012, 19:37
oh my goodness!! What does this mean!?!
Andrew Lawrence
11-10-2012, 19:38
3 alliances, 2 bots each, red, yellow, blue. You have to switch the goal (thumbtack) to your color in order to roll your game piece in.
Although now we will have to build three sets of bumpers, ack
Maybe FIRST has answered our prayers and won't require bumpers next year?
CrazyHorse
11-10-2012, 19:39
Maybe FIRST has answered our prayers and won't require bumpers next year?
Doubted. Especially if its another game similar to lunacy
Maybe FIRST has answered our prayers and won't require bumpers next year?
Not likely. (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-09-18-12)
MARS_James
11-10-2012, 19:42
Maybe FIRST has answered our prayers and won't require bumpers next year?
Your prayers maybe, I would like looser rules on the bumpers don't get me wrong but I feel they are a necessary thing in the evolution of FIRST, just like helmets and pads in football.
Andrew Lawrence
11-10-2012, 19:43
Not likely. (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-09-18-12)
A clever guise warning teams that their bumperless robots will need to float.
CrazyHorse
11-10-2012, 19:46
A clever guise warning teams that their bumperless robots will need to float.
Buy them, if you don’t have them already, for your 2013 bumpers.
Rick Roll + Yellow Pin = Tennis Balls?
Peyton Yeung
11-10-2012, 19:58
Rick Roll + Yellow Pin = Tennis Balls?
throwback. The field will be corn:) guess us Indiana teams will have the advantage :)
CrazyHorse
11-10-2012, 20:21
Libby Kamen posted this on FIRST's FaceBook:
Technically, it's just a picture from the GDC lab.... Don't dive in just yet. It takes some time for the GDC to formulate hints. This is probably just a little one to get your feet wet.
Water game :D
I feel like everyone is missing something important: if this is a recent picture from the Game Lab, wouldn't they be working on the game after next? You know, they have more than once said that next year's game was mostly developed last year...
(Although the URL does say 2013....)
hmmm....
1. 3 colors
2. 3 minutes in
3. 2013
3 3's.... I think I know what this means...
Valve is now a FRC sponsor and will be announcing the Half Life 3 release date, the day after the FRC World championships....
The game will be half life themed....
"never gonna give you up", they are bringing back failed concepts from the past. We are going to have a kinect, minibot, and lunacy wheels.
and the '10 ranking system...
Walter Deitzler
11-10-2012, 21:25
I think that if there was a third alliance, it would be a white alliance, because the FIRST logo colors are red, blue, and white, the 3 colors of the FIRST logo.
Just a quick thought, more to come later.
Samwaldo
11-10-2012, 21:28
personally, as a driver, i would LOVE a 3 minute match! more time, more competition, bigger scores
MrTechCenter
11-10-2012, 21:28
Perhaps the "3" represents 3 game pieces? This year we only had one game piece, Logomotion had 4 if you count ubertubes. Lunacy, however, had 3. Lunacy revisited? I think so.
Maldridge422
11-10-2012, 21:36
Rick Astley does repeatedly say "Never gonna run around a desert you." I would assume a "Never desert" would have lots of water. Also, a limit on "running" would seem to point towards a challenge more geared towards swimming or floating.
z_beeblebrox
11-10-2012, 21:38
Do the game hints ever give meaningful hints about the game?
Anyway, I think the GDC is just rick-rolling all of us.
rachelholladay
11-10-2012, 22:18
You know, this came from the GDC lab. They never said it was a game hint. Maybe they just really like the song...
(if it is in fact a game hint, it seems a little earlier than usual. I had always thought of game hint as holiday gifts)
daniel_dsouza
11-10-2012, 22:31
Do the game hints ever give meaningful hints about the game?
Great question! I'd like to say no.
In 2011, our hint was another picture "music/song/artist/singer" related. She sang the song "Locomotion". The name of the game that year was "Logomotion". Did anyone connect "Locomotion" to scoring inner tubes on pegs to form the FIRST logo with a minibot endgame? I think not.
This year might just be the same thing: a hint to the name of the game, which really can not tell us anything. Especially because (according to CD patterns), this year's game will not be sport oriented (Rebound Rumble sort of implied basketball).
Great question! I'd like to say no.
In 2011, our hint was another picture "music/song/artist/singer" related. She sang the song "Locomotion". The name of the game that year was "Logomotion". Did anyone connect "Locomotion" to scoring inner tubes on pegs to form the FIRST logo with a minibot endgame? I think not.
This year might just be the same thing: a hint to the name of the game, which really can not tell us anything. Especially because (according to CD patterns), this year's game will not be sport oriented (Rebound Rumble sort of implied basketball).
Am I the only one that connected the pole she was hugging to the minibot pole?
Quick! Someone count the number of minute holes in the corkboard! It must be a clue!
All joking aside, I think the game will have something to do with the Curiosity landing. Just an educated guess, and probably a bad one at that...
Tetraman
11-10-2012, 23:14
Do the game hints ever give meaningful hints about the game?
Yes.
However, this is not an official game hint. Official game hints are given a page on the FIRST website and given proper fanfare as a Game Hint in an email blast. All other 'hints' by members of the GDC or FIRST before then are just poking at the collective mind of CD to squeeze out some ideas for next year's design discussion they haven't thought of yet. Which is a good thing.
That said...I think the only thing here that can be considered a game hint at all is the screenshot at the 3:00 mark. I would welcome a 3 minute game - like 2:30 match with 30 second hybrid.
efoote868
11-10-2012, 23:24
Do the game hints ever give meaningful hints about the game?
Anyway, I think the GDC is just rick-rolling all of us.
Was about to post 2006's hint, but found a better history:
2003: y=ax^2+bx+c, a reference to the scoring system
2004: Some lines from Stairway to Heaven, by Led Zeppelin, referring to the stairs and the bar on the field.
2005: a riddle, involving Pi, amethyst, two players to make unassisted triple plays, and other references to 3, pointing to the game name, Triple Play
2006: "Five 'bots tangling with pasta, A game piece obsessed with a shovel's show, And seeing Montana's green heights." In shape, that was a roundish riddle; in hindsight, it covered what you'd do with the game piece, the offense/defense periods, and the CMUCam vision targets.
2007: Image from the game animation, showing a scored game piece on the #5 column, top peg.
2008: The doozy of doozies. Hint season opened with every team getting hint #1, an IR receiver that would work with a standard remote, in the mail. Hint #2, a couple weeks later, was GPS coordinates leading to a statue of the tortoise and the hare in Boston. Hint #3, "Vets hurdling FIRST tetras", was most of the password to the encrypted manual--scrambled, of course, and without punctuation.
2009: First the opah. Then, a riddle that lead from the Zamboni plant to the maker of the game piece to a couple other places.
Justin Montois
11-10-2012, 23:28
I just hope for a game where I can hold as many game objects as I design for. (2006, 2009) I'm kind of tired of the limits, one soccer ball, one tube, three basketballs. Give me some flexibility :)
Great question! I'd like to say no.
In 2011, our hint was another picture "music/song/artist/singer" related. She sang the song "Locomotion". The name of the game that year was "Logomotion". Did anyone connect "Locomotion" to scoring inner tubes on pegs to form the FIRST logo with a minibot endgame? I think not.
This year might just be the same thing: a hint to the name of the game, which really can not tell us anything. Especially because (according to CD patterns), this year's game will not be sport oriented (Rebound Rumble sort of implied basketball).I don't know about the minibot pole, but I do know several people that got Logomotion-->making FIRST logos-->inner tube game.
People in 2010 figured out that Hint #2 was an extra gate, and therefore there would be a field split into 3rd by a barrier we weren't supposed to carry robots over. Some even deciphered Hint #1 as a ball track and connected it with soccer (because it was a World Cup year and/or they determined the scale).
I don't remember much useful coming out of 2009, but 2008 was the IR year. It was also the GPS coordinate year, and there were people that found the tortoise and the hare statue and determined it was a race (presumably NASCAR-style given field size limitations).
...Now, if you're asking whether anything useful was done as a result of a game hint, that's less clear (barring the IR sensor). If any teams trusted their conclusions enough, they certainly could've gotten a head start on everything from barrier traversers and NASCAR drivetrains to soccer ball possessors and inner tube grippers, among others. Whether anyone did is another story. It's a bit of a leap of faith.
EDIT: and what efoote said.
Not that it helps much but the picture seems to be genuine, it still has metadata on it. It was taken today (10/11/2012) at 9:42am with an HTC EVO 4G at these GPS coordinates 42.989937, -71.467928 (google map) http://bit.ly/ReaHbF
Near a river...
You know what that means! :D
Was the problem the pads themselves, or the fact the the human player could disable the robot? I'd like to see something like that, but if the pressure pads weren't sensitive enough/too sensitive/had other problems, what else could be used?
Neither. The human disabling the robot was due to a safety issue.
The real problem is this: You're going at your sprinting speed, and you have to stop, completely stop, in a rectangle that's about 2'x3', and you're going in the 2' direction, or the robot enables and immediately disables. You can slow down, but that increases the "disabled" time. (The target at the other end was more like 4' square.) Oh, and you have to have your full weight on it for it to be active.
As I recall, some offseasons used a hand-pressed button, so you had a bit more time to hit the brakes.
How about switching Rick Rolled to Egg Rolled. Eggs made an appearance twice that I know of at world championships out of place. One was on a fact sheet given to VIP escorts saying how many eggs were used at the world champs, and another appearance was made in the (Friday?) opening ceremony video. I'd watch out for egg shaped game pieces in the 2013 game.
EDIT: I've also learned there is something called a "3 minute egg" which would refer to the video being stopped at 3 minutes.
Akash Rastogi
12-10-2012, 02:32
How about switching Rick Rolled to Egg Rolled. Eggs made an appearance twice that I know of at world championships out of place. One was on a fact sheet given to VIP escorts saying how many eggs were used at the world champs, and another appearance was made in the (Friday?) opening ceremony video. I'd watch out for egg shaped game pieces in the 2013 game.
EDIT: I've also learned there is something called a "3 minute egg" which would refer to the video being stopped at 3 minutes.
Rugby balls are sort of egg shaped.
Jay O'Donnell
12-10-2012, 06:07
Rugby balls are sort of egg shaped.
So are footballs!
GaryVoshol
12-10-2012, 07:04
oh my goodness!! What does this mean!?!
It means 12 weeks of game hint speculation - :ahh:
GaryVoshol
12-10-2012, 07:06
and the '10 ranking system...
And the 3-tier scheduling system :mad:
There's the line right after 3:00,
"Never gonna let you down"
ascension endgame?
Now this sounds likely. What was the game where robots had to climb on top of eachother?
EDIT: The game I found was rack n roll. Possibly combining with the fact that "rack n roll" is similar to "rick roll".
Were going to have the rack n roll end game? Does that sound not good?
I doubt another tube game two years after logomotion.
F22Rapture
12-10-2012, 08:17
hmmm....
Valve is now a FRC sponsor and will be announcing the Half Life 3 release date, the day after the FRC World championships....
I didn't know the 2013 championships were being held in 2030 :D
Jon Stratis
12-10-2012, 08:38
How about switching Rick Rolled to Egg Rolled. Eggs made an appearance twice that I know of at world championships out of place. One was on a fact sheet given to VIP escorts saying how many eggs were used at the world champs, and another appearance was made in the (Friday?) opening ceremony video. I'd watch out for egg shaped game pieces in the 2013 game.
EDIT: I've also learned there is something called a "3 minute egg" which would refer to the video being stopped at 3 minutes.
Yes, they feed us volunteers a ton of food... And the mountain of eggs in the morning helps keep the inspectors happy!
roboticxninja
12-10-2012, 09:04
Anyone else notice that the coordinates lead to a place called Mill No. 3?
Jenn Feathers
12-10-2012, 09:35
Not that it helps much but the picture seems to be genuine, it still has metadata on it. It was taken today (10/11/2012) at 9:42am with an HTC EVO 4G at these GPS coordinates 42.989937, -71.467928 (google map) http://bit.ly/ReaHbF
http://www.see-sciencecenter.org/visitors/millyard-project.aspx
LEGO exhibit containing about 3 million LEGOs.
The first 3 LEGO brick colors were are Red, Yellow, and Blue.
The FIRST logo is found in 2 of the photos along with Dean Kamen being mentioned.
Oh and theres this in the caption of one of the photos, "The completed project with approximately three million LEGO bricks,
running water and trains is now on permanent exhibit at the SEE Science Center."
LEGO themed water game?
the pins are weird. 1 flat and 3 bigger pins
Flat pin is on the bottom of the red stack indicating support platform for red partner!
Pins are a symbolic equation: elevating your teammate equals scoring the uber game piece...
Jenn Feathers
12-10-2012, 09:45
http://www.see-sciencecenter.org/get-involved/SIB.aspx
Not that it helps much but the picture seems to be genuine, it still has metadata on it. It was taken today (10/11/2012) at 9:42am with an HTC EVO 4G at these GPS coordinates 42.989937, -71.467928 (google map) http://bit.ly/ReaHbF
My guess would be the geo-tag is only referring the building the science center is in - Mill Number 3. If you look at the south side of the building there is also a large number 3 on the side, only adding to the references to 3.
Lego's are a little to small for an audience pleasing game peace, Maybe mimibots made of legos?
Jon Stratis
12-10-2012, 11:38
Lego's are a little to small for an audience pleasing game peace, Maybe mimibots made of legos?
I just had to counter this statement... a quick search of google images turns up some possible solutions, like:
http://www.whigham.org/baby/2011/April/Legoland/Good%20times/Giant%20legos.jpg
I know I played with some gigantic Lego's growing up, ones that are at least as big as the balls we had this year!
I just had to counter this statement... a quick search of google images turns up some possible solutions, like:
http://www.whigham.org/baby/2011/April/Legoland/Good%20times/Giant%20legos.jpg
I know I played with some gigantic Lego's growing up, ones that are at least as big as the balls we had this year!
Man I missed out, I never had giant Lego's when I was a kid! Your right though those would make great game peaces. :]
http://www.see-sciencecenter.org/visitors/millyard-project.aspx
LEGO exhibit containing about 3 million LEGOs.
The first 3 LEGO brick colors were are Red, Yellow, and Blue.
The FIRST logo is found in 2 of the photos along with Dean Kamen being mentioned.
Oh and theres this in the caption of one of the photos, "The completed project with approximately three million LEGO bricks,
running water and trains is now on permanent exhibit at the SEE Science Center."
LEGO themed water game?
That's an exhibit - a full LEGO model of Manchester's historic Millyard- from the SEE Science Center, a museum that shares a building (and founder) with FIRST. So what this says is - yes, they took it in the GDC game lab (or at least in someone's office).
aaand now I'm done with this thread. I will make my usual disclaimer: GO OUTSIDE, OR SOMETHING. Go do something other than FIRST for a little while - after all, in January, your life is consumed!
I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories about corkboard but I like the 3:00 minute match speculation.
In every round of matches, you have fixed time and you have variable time. Fixed time includes field reset and robot settup. These are basically the same every year at 4 minutes and 15 seconds. Variable time is the match itself. you can add 45 seconds of match without increasing the fixed time one bit. This means that a robot gets more guaranteed time on the field at the sacrifice of one or two total matches.
I'll illustrate with the district model because that is what I am most familiar with. Over the past few years we have dealt with match turnover times of roughly 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Multiply that by 80 matches and you have 8 hours and 40 minutes of qualification matches to play with. In reality a little more because of inevitable delays, but an equal amount of time should be reserved for delays in either presented scenario.
Now, lets say we add 45 seconds to each match to bring it to 3 minutes. That makes total match turnover time 7 minutes and 15 seconds. First of all, this added time ought to decrease some stress on volunteers, and cause an overall smoother competition flow. Second, if you divide 8 hours and 40 minutes by 7 minutes and 15 seconds, there is time for 72 matches. If we assume 40 robots at the competition and a traditional 3 vs. 3 style game, there is a reduction from 12 qualification matches to 10.8. So, probably a loss of one match depending upon how they treat the non-whole number.
Despite the loss of one match, each team has gained an extra 6 minutes of field time, which should not only be more enjoyable for students, but improve the quality of rankings and scouting. These extra six minutes should improve the sample size by which each robot will be evaluated, thereby giving teams truer results in their scouting data. It's akin to getting an extra month of sampling when evaluating a baseball player. The peripherals of the robot will have a better opportunity to normalize the randomness of the results much like the extra moth of playing time for the baseball player, and regression will pull unlucky teams closer to their true talent level, meanwhile luckier teams will regress in the opposite direction and design flaws have a better chance of being exposed.
Lyric:
Never gonna run around and desert you
Please...Not Overdrive...
Jon Stratis
12-10-2012, 14:56
That's an exhibit - a full LEGO model of Manchester's historic Millyard- from the SEE Science Center, a museum that shares a building (and founder) with FIRST. So what this says is - yes, they took it in the GDC game lab (or at least in someone's office).
aaand now I'm done with this thread. I will make my usual disclaimer: GO OUTSIDE, OR SOMETHING. Go do something other than FIRST for a little while - after all, in January, your life is consumed!
Oh, now you're just ruining all my fun! I can't go outside or my boss will yell at me, and I've gotten all nostalgic for my old Lego's today!
rcmolloy
12-10-2012, 15:09
The Lego facts are pretty interesting in themselves. I am very curious to what the game might be. If they're attempting to cross games again, much like Logomotion with FTC, it's now time for a link for FRC and Lego League. However, these wouldn't be your ordinary legos...:yikes:
I wouldn't be surprised if alliances needed to work together to build a structure, lego style.
In other words, pick up building blocks from a dispenser or a field, and construct a specified object while working with your alliance partners.
Of course the goal would be to build the object faster than the opposing alliance.
And suddenly, Minecraft, on water, with robots, in FIRST.
How about giant foam legos?
Jackomonk
12-10-2012, 16:16
This is the result of a Google image search using the image's URL - http://bit.ly/RU6lct
KevinGoneNuts
12-10-2012, 16:46
How about giant foam legos?
YES PLEASE! That would be such a fun game to watch. Robots have to build things out of giant foam legos for points!
KevinGoneNuts
12-10-2012, 16:46
How about giant foam legos?
YES PLEASE! That would be such a fun game to watch. Robots have to build things out of giant foam legos for points!
CrazyHorse
12-10-2012, 19:09
LEGOs would fit the trend that this year is a nonsport, and would be a great game piece. But i think its less about the LEGOs and more about the giant 3 on the side of the building
Maybe...
Three minute match separated into four quarters of 45 seconds each:
Q1 = 45 second hybrid - longer-than-normal time to allow use of sluggish Kinect - robots from both alliances are allowed access to central third of playing field to capture (and never give up) open-topped drums (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=26102&catid=459) of their alliance color and to gather red/yellow/blue balls (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ball-Pit-Balls-100/8456390)
Q2 = 45 second period where only the red alliance is allowed to enter all three playing zones to gather balls. Blue robots may not change zones but may play defence and protect their drums. Robots employ RYB color sensor to sort balls. Only balls matching your alliance color in drums of your alliance color at the end of the match count toward your alliance's score - yellow balls represent contamination and reduce score.
Q3 = 45 second period where only blue alliance is allowed to enter all three playing zones to gather red/yellow/blue balls. Red robots may not change zones.
Q4 = 45 second endgame - robots from both alliances are free to roam the entire field. Alliances decide to have their robots hold their drums secure or leave the drums behind to climb the podium steps at mid-field. Max coopertition points if all six robots end up on the podium at 3 minute mark.
Either that or a tug of war.
whattsheorder
12-10-2012, 20:41
If you pause the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video right where the picture was taken its when he was saying "up" so I'm thinking it has something to do with some sort of elevation ...a little far fetched but when aren't the hints.
ratdude747
12-10-2012, 21:42
How about giant foam legos?
Please not another foam gamepiece.
Just ask anybody who worked field reset this year... FRC robots tend to chew them up pretty quick.
At BMR it got so bad that there were barely enough good balls left to play with by the time elims started... Same for innertubes. Not durable enough for FRC play.
DDSLoan96
12-10-2012, 22:39
Just want to point something out. Never gonna give you up came out in 1987, 20 years after that the game Rack N' Roll was used.
The picture has GPS coordinates in its metadata.... It points near DEKA in New Hampshire, but not quite in the building.
Actually, it points to FIRST HQ (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=42+59.396216666%27+N+71+28.07568333%27+W&hl=en&ll=42.989765,-71.468001&spn=0.004611,0.005649&sll=37.424938,-122.170383&sspn=0.056643,0.09038&t=h&z=18).
The world has never seen a group of people who have taken such interest and delight in being rickrolled.
Im more concerned with the fact that that he says that "we know the game, and were gonna play it"
In the recording off the "Behind the Game Design" videos FRC put out on their channel, he DOES say that they are not above replaying games, and that, as a backup to rebound rumble, they would have basically replayed Aim High.
Personally, I believe that would be really lame, since some teams have played that game before, others have not. It would really not help with leveling the playing field.
But, more then likely, I think were probably not supposed to pay attention to the video that much, as it IS used to troll people, and this isnt really an "Official" full blown hint as Libby Kamen said.
Things that probably are significant:
The pushpins:
If they had only put three pushpins on there, I would think that a red, yellow, and blue pin represent a new alliance, but the fact that they put a fourth red one on throws me off. If they really wanted to convey that idea, why not just leave out a pushpin? It doesnt make since to me, and has me wondering why there are two red...
The time of the screenshot:
3 minutes in? Probably a longer match, including a longer auton period. Why? Because they want the kinect to be more part of the game this year. A longer auton would mean utilizing your sensors correctly is even more important than before. Plus, if they lowered the match time for teleop, people would probably get mad, so they increased the game time.
Thats all for now
SarahBeth
13-10-2012, 10:43
The world has never seen a group of people who have taken such interest and delight in being rickrolled.
Bam! New signature!
Thanks, StevenB! :)
Also, this thread is so much fun, I have nothing useful to add, but I'm really enjoying reading it. :D
F22Rapture
13-10-2012, 16:25
The pushpins:
If they had only put three pushpins on there, I would think that a red, yellow, and blue pin represent a new alliance, but the fact that they put a fourth red one on throws me off. If they really wanted to convey that idea, why not just leave out a pushpin? It doesnt make since to me, and has me wondering why there are two red...
The time of the screenshot:
3 minutes in? Probably a longer match, including a longer auton period. Why? Because they want the kinect to be more part of the game this year. A longer auton would mean utilizing your sensors correctly is even more important than before. Plus, if they lowered the match time for teleop, people would probably get mad, so they increased the game time.
I think this is the most likely scenario.
I can't see 3 alliances happening. I think that's a false lead, and the 4th pushpin implies otherwise.
After thinking about it, I'm almost positive that your second point is correct. Currently matches are 2 minutes 15 seconds long, with a 15 second hybrid period. I wouldn't be surprised if the hybrid period was extended to 30 or 45 seconds, with a 2:30 or 2:15 teleop period, respectively.
Since it's easy to program a 15 second autonomous with an efficiency difficult to match with the Kinect, I see this as a fairly straightforward method of incentivising teams to use Kinect without introducing a potential imbalance if it were to be heavily weighted in the points.
SteveGPage
13-10-2012, 17:39
Some initial thoughts myself. Some seem to have been discussed in this thread, maybe some not. Catching up at 35K feet, crossing the Rookies, I may have bounced over something!
1. The picture, as best I can tell, according to the video I found online, is actually at almost 3:01. So not sure if the "3" exactly is what they were going for. At the moment of the screen cap, he is mouthing the word "Up" in the song. I think we are going to be seeing a lifting aspect of the game, both of game pieces and prob other robots - including opp alliance robots. Elements of Rack 'n Roll and Coopertition like last year's bridge, and maybe Overdrive.
2. The video, if the three minute mark isn't the primary driver of the screen cap, has several locations. In this segment, Rick is singing on an elevated stage, with two women next to him - so three participants. I'm guessing we're staying with the 3 v 3 standard, but perhaps need to finish with the alliance members on an elevated area. Elements of Aim High with the ramp.
3. The dining room where this is happening, has a number of empty tables, with chairs stacked on top of them. So I would lean towards a stacking game. Elements of Triple Play.
4. For the push pins, since I see parts of other games in this, let me go a different direction from the rest of the discussion. Taking the push pins in the order in which they are placed. Starting at 12 oclock and moving clockwise, perhaps they are indicative of the periods of the game. Yellow being AM or some kind of hybrid mode. Based on the outcome of that, let's say "Red" wins AM, "Blue" is now on offense first, while "Red" is on defense for the second period, or first period of TeleOp. Next, Red is on offense, while Blue is on defense. Lastly, because Red won AM, they get some benefit of being in control of the End Game. Elements of Aim High.
5. Since the hint, its self, is a picture. Expect a emphasis on cameras, and image capture capabilities, probably for AM, and for distant aiming. Certainly the push over the last several years.
6. Lastly, I'm not convinced we are driving on cork, or that cork has anything to do with playing pieces or surfaces. I can't see theme returning to something like Lunacy in terms of playing surfaces. So why the corkboard? I think it has to do with the function of a corkboard, a place where you share information with the public. As with Rack N' Roll (and to some degree Breakaway), and the lifting requirement, there was a need to share design ideas so there was some kind of standard designs for the lifter and the liftee. I expect that to be a greater push, forcing teams to come to some kind of design standard for those kind of activities.
Okay, my $0.02 (or 0.0154 Euros)
Forgive any typos - balancing laptop on a small tray, bouncing my way East!
Steve
...Rack 'n Roll...Coopertition like last year's bridge...Overdrive...Aim High...Triple Play...Aim High...Lunacy...Rack N' Roll...Breakaway
So a Rack 'n Roll, Rebound Rumble, Overdrive, Aim High, Triple Play, Lunacy, Breakaway fusion mix, with an emphasis on Rack 'n Roll and Aim High?
SteveGPage
13-10-2012, 17:55
So a Rack 'n Roll, Rebound Rumble, Overdrive, Aim High, Triple Play, Lunacy, Breakaway fusion mix, with an emphasis on Rack 'n Roll and Aim High?
Exactly, except I forgot to add perhaps pushing objects up a ramp, too ... so elements of FTC Bowled Over!
Exactly, except I forgot to add perhaps pushing objects up a ramp, too ... so elements of FTC Bowled Over!
Or Stack Attack :D
5. Since the hint, its self, is a picture. Expect a emphasis on cameras, and image capture capabilities, probably for AM, and for distant aiming. Certainly the push over the last several years.
Yes! The GDC emphsiased (sorry, on a cell phone) their want to continue with the kinect and use it more. I never thought about that, it is a picture OF a picture.
Once again, in those GDC design videos (watch them! Theyre very interesting!), they emphsiased their want to use the vision systems in general more.
B-rant4474
13-10-2012, 23:57
Well I know this is stupid and it will most likely not be a water game. However, I just have to mention that cork floats on water.
Maybe there could be a pool in the center where the game elements are floating on water. I don't know where 3 would fit in though. Also this is a huge stretch.
nathannfm
15-10-2012, 02:15
Since posting this is clearly saying they will troll us I think there will be a sealed container of water somewhere on the field that serves no practical purpose whatsoever except for them to say they finally did a water game.
CLandrum3081
15-10-2012, 02:48
One picture, a lot to digest.
I definitely wasn't expecting a hint this early.
I'll have to wait for the next one to actually formulate some good guesses.
For some reason, I had the idea in my head that there would be some sort of target shaped like the Bohr model of the atom since it's its 100-year anniversary in 2013. But that's coming from a chemistry nerd who remembers everything she sees in her textbook.
VERY excited for kickoff and anxiously awaiting next hint.
As for the one we have right now, I'm very much with the 3:00 match length. I would look at the three colors as three alliances but that red pushpin throws me off. Maybe the yellow tack has something to do with autonomous? I'd think if there was a third alliance its bumpers would be white, but I don't know... Sometimes I feel like a rookie *facepalm*
CrazyHorse
15-10-2012, 09:16
I just have to mention that cork floats on water. I don't know where 3 would fit in though.
3 Feet of water :D
But in all seriousness, I'm not entirely sure this is a hint. Read the 5th or 6th post talking about a member or the GDC. Plus, it didn't really have the fanfare of a hint. I wouldn't take anything from this except the concept of 3. And that the GDC loves to troll and everyone on this thread is unhealthily addicted to FIRST. Myself included :D Hooray for FIRST Fever! "Official" hints are given in December right?
HumblePie
15-10-2012, 12:28
FWIW, I did go outside yesterday and the grass is now shorter.
Haven't seen a lot of discussion re: the background in the photo, and FIRSTers are nothing if not subtle. I agree with others here that we're about due for a stacking game. Does anyone else think the background is reminiscent of a milk crate? Or, could "desert you" refer to ice cream (cones)? Just havin' fun....
Alan Anderson
15-10-2012, 14:07
I definitely wasn't expecting a hint this early.
I'll have to wait for the next one to actually formulate some good guesses.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to wait for the first 2013 game hint before I start thinking about it.
spaztazticii
17-10-2012, 23:52
Let's look at the photo really quickly...I see 3 push pins and 1 tack. Let's imagine 2 bots start at each pin, Blue for Blue and Red for Red, and then 1 Red and 1 Blue at Yellow. That means the fourth pin could be a dispensing area? Everyone is so obsessed over Rick Astley. Maybe we should be thinking about the pins the simple things that hold that picture there.
In the frame of Never Gonna Give You Up that we are given as the hint, Rick is in the middle of saying "never gonna run around and desert you."
do with that what you will ::rtm::
PwnyBoy
Kailey1023bx
20-10-2012, 15:02
FIRST has been in existence for 22 years and Rick Astley's song "Never Gonna Give You Up" was released in 1987. If you add the 22 years to 1987 you get 2009, which was Lunacy. 20 years after 2007 was Rack N' Roll and people say you have been "Rick Roll'd." The lyrics "Never gonna let you down" can be related to the 2005 game Triple Play, which had tetrahedrons that go along with the repetitive 3s. Also in 2005 on the game field there was the blue and red alliances and yellow triangle markings on the field like the picture on the cork board with the yellow, blue, and red pushpins.
akoscielski3
20-10-2012, 16:06
I find this ironic. In English class our teacher's tell us how there is symbolism and such, and we don't understand it or think its there. Then FIRSTer's get a Game Hit, and we think EVERYTHING is a symbol and has some significance.
swwrobotics
20-10-2012, 21:32
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to wait for the first 2013 game hint before I start thinking about it.
Yes, I totally agree, and that this is really being over thought. Usually the GDC doesn't announce official hints until late November/early December, so this might be a distraction from what the game really is.
rondinol
20-10-2012, 22:24
Do you think it could be a game where you post pieces of the FIRST logo on a corkboard or magnetic board? Or is that to similar to logomotion?
Christopher149
20-10-2012, 22:56
A reoccurrence of the number 3 can mean anything, and even then, it could just be a big troll. 3 could relate to the field, a game element, a rule, etc.
Yes, what does the number three signify? Tell us, Data. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) :)
Walter Deitzler
22-10-2012, 16:05
Yes, what does the number three signify? Tell us, Data. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) :)
Star Trek Game?
Hi.
Luke from Team 3335 here, figure I'll put in my two cents.
Let's break this hint down, shall we?
First we should list every element in the image. We have:
4x Push Pin:
-1x Red
-1x Orange
-1x Yellow
-1x Blue
1x Rick @ 3:00 of the original video
1x Cork Board
1x Metal Border for Cork Board
1x White Background Wall
Now we should figure out what each of these items could mean individually.
Push Pins:
-In recent years, we have seen the act of pinning another robot to a wall or some other form of restricting movement, often by pushing them, as a disqualifying offense. On the other side of the end that is pushed, is (we can assume) a pointy part. Ergo, I draw the conclusion that pushing and pinning another robot will make for a painfully-given red card; nobody wants to be disqualified, and nobody wants to do the disqualifying!
Color scheme of push pins:
-Red, Orange, Yellow, and Blue. The first three are your basic "warm" colors, whilst the only "cool" color present is Blue. At first glance, this would suggest there will be some form of quadruple-team arrangement. However, I find this to be unlikely, as rearranging the field in such a manner as to support four teams would be impractical and costly. Not to mention 6/2 equalling 1. Eight robots on that size of field would be preposterous, let alone 12. Instead, I find the objective to be to obtain objects of various colors (red, yellow, orange, blue), with Blue and Red objects being obtained during autonomous mode.
Cork Board
-Clearly representative of the field, the cork board is what the push pins are pushed into. This is a very obvious sign that the floor will be either made of a cork-type material, or perhaps some of that squishy floor rather than carpet. In other words, expect a floor with a little bit of give to it.
Metal Border for Cork Board
-Obviously the metal border is the metal barrier around the outside of the field. It's sturdy, rigid, and only received one dent from my team's robot that it couldn't easily have buffed out of it. (We're sorry for that, Lone Star Regional. We were rookies and didn't know we needed to cycle the power after a round.)
White Background Wall
-I assume that the space not contained within the field will be some sort of white color to aid in photographic purposes when taking pictures from the stands, as well as making the lines of tape on the floor that guides robots on and off the field easily visible.
Last but not least, Rick.
-There are numerous factors to Rick's image. His microphone might suggest the use of ultrasonic sensors to detect distance would be useful this time around; perhaps to guide robots during an autonomous period for some purpose. The idea of a 3-alliance match is unlikely because it would probably require significant modifications to the field, which is, again, impractical and costly. Finally, the lyrics of the song suggest the game may involve attempting to attain and hold on to as many objects as possible, perhaps the opposite of Lunacy, where robots tried to score into other robots.
All of these together tell me we will be having a squish-floored metal-bound field with a white flooring around it. On the field will be Red and Blue alliances of 3 teams each, who compete for orange and yellow objects during the teleoperated period and attempt to obtain Red or Blue objects, respectively, during the Autonomous period.
I am sure I am not the first to draw these conclusions, and I know it is possible that I am completely wrong; my guesses as to last year's game involved a trapeze and water balloons.
The GDC has probably been trying to figure out how to sneak a RickRoll into a game hint for several years now. I'm not an expert, so I can't tell if the RickRoll was edited into a photo taken from a phone or if the RickRoll was printed, tacked up, then taken as a photo from a phone (as implied).
fotoforensics (http://www.fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=430badbe7ea54f5a4f2a905a83cee1fe82 130b16.173989)
The RickRoll ELA is a darker image than the surrounding image. However, given that we don't have enough comparative surface of solid colors, nothing's conclusive -- the white paper obscures the ELA of the RickRoll photo edge. The fact that all pushpins are totally obscured in the ELA is interesting, but I don't know enough about it to draw a hypothesis as to why. Assuming the bottom left pin is flat, all of the shadows line up. Given the GDC's history of adding fluff to hints, I'm going to presume the flat pin simply means the person who tacked up the photo only had 3 non-flat pushpins (i.e. don't look into it too much). The jpeg quality (90%) implies that the photo was saved twice (once when taken, once after -- probably a crop), but that's subject to the default jpeg quality of a HTC Evo 4g.
So -- nothing conclusive, but the GDC should beware that the internet provides many resources to figure out their schemes ;)
FYI, the guy who made Fotoforensics also writes a blog I read weekly (you know, while code compiles...).
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/
Some very interesting articles about photo manipulation there.
The GDC has probably been trying to figure out how to sneak a RickRoll into a game hint for several years now. I'm not an expert, so I can't tell if the RickRoll was edited into a photo taken from a phone or if the RickRoll was printed, tacked up, then taken as a photo from a phone (as implied).
fotoforensics (http://www.fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=430badbe7ea54f5a4f2a905a83cee1fe82 130b16.173989)
The RickRoll ELA is a darker image than the surrounding image. However, given that we don't have enough comparative surface of solid colors, nothing's conclusive -- the white paper obscures the ELA of the RickRoll photo edge. The fact that all pushpins are totally obscured in the ELA is interesting, but I don't know enough about it to draw a hypothesis as to why. Assuming the bottom left pin is flat, all of the shadows line up. Given the GDC's history of adding fluff to hints, I'm going to presume the flat pin simply means the person who tacked up the photo only had 3 non-flat pushpins (i.e. don't look into it too much). The jpeg quality (90%) implies that the photo was saved twice (once when taken, once after -- probably a crop), but that's subject to the default jpeg quality of a HTC Evo 4g.
So -- nothing conclusive, but the GDC should beware that the internet provides many resources to figure out their schemes ;)
FYI, the guy who made Fotoforensics also writes a blog I read weekly (you know, while code compiles...).
http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/
Some very interesting articles about photo manipulation there.
wow.
Team371All
23-10-2012, 14:22
Wow, I cant believe all this attention for an obvious joke. Very funny GDC, looking forward to the real clue in december
Wow, I cant believe all this attention for an obvious joke. Very funny GDC, looking forward to the real clue in december
Are you kidding? We live for this kind of abuse.
I'm gonna laugh when the GDC numbers the first official game hint #3.
4x Push Pin:
-1x Red
-1x Orange
-1x Yellow
-1x Blue
Im sorry people, but there is no orange pin! They are BOTH red (And the same red, at that).
Took RGB values from the center of each pin:
Top "Red" pin:
R:244
G:27
B:36
Bottom "Red" pin:
R:245
G:33
B:29
Saying that, according to here (http://kb.iu.edu/data/aetf.html), "Orange" requires a Green value of over 120, plus them being almost the exact same color, Im fairly certain there is no "Orange" pin anywhere.
ratdude747
23-10-2012, 19:57
I'm gonna laugh when the GDC numbers the first official game hint #3.
Ooh, the #1 plus #3 game where everybody goes on a wild goose chase finding a nonexistent #2?
MARS_James
23-10-2012, 20:11
I'm gonna laugh when the GDC numbers the first official game hint #3.
Which we will take as a hint that there is no 2nd alliance on the field and we are back to 5 v 0 game
Ooh, the #1 plus #3 game where everybody goes on a wild goose chase finding a nonexistent #2?
YES
I'm going to presume the flat pin simply means the person who tacked up the photo only had 3 non-flat pushpins (i.e. don't look into it too much).
I don't know about the 'don't look into it too much' (you never know with the GDC), but I can confirm that, having interned for FIRST and being particular about my cubicle decorations - you can never find ANY pushpins that match in that office.
:)
Nstarr445
24-10-2012, 20:10
Could the image from the "RickRoll" video perhaps be referring to a specific game element, such as a rolling goal?(like ftc 2010-2011's moving goals)
firemaster193
24-10-2012, 20:19
Usually when a song or singer photo is used such as in 2011 in Logomotion the yellow tube was a score multiplier when placed during the autonomous period. Now knowing FIRST they will likely have the game name in reference to one of Rick Astley's songs. However the placement of the tacks i doubt is coincidental. 2 red, 1 yellow and 1 blue. It cant be that the red alliance would have significance then the blue alliance since alliances are chosen at random for teams, both blue and red. I do believe that the tack in the lower left hand corner is slightly different then the other tacks. It looks more like a flat head tack then a traditional extended head tack. It could also be Photoshopped in. It looks rather different then the rest of the photo. The game in itself could have something with the one of his songs as well. I find it highly likely that his song "Never gonna give you up" is the song of choice. Such as keeping a specific item from the others "Your never gonna give up your said item"
kendra21093
24-10-2012, 20:25
WATER GAME! Always a water game...
In all seriousness about the pins, what if the game objects are colored, like in VEX Gateway, so all goals are neutral and its the objects that score for the team. Also, the objects stack and there is a yellow multiplier object.
Wait... Call me crazy, but there's the mic in the picture. Maybe the addition of voice command? Like the addition of the Kinect last year.
matthewdenny
25-10-2012, 10:49
Could it be that we will have 3 teams? maybe a 2v2v2 red, blue, yellow? 3 minutes into the video, 3 different colors. Maybe the reason the one red pin is different is because it doesn't count. It's not a real push pin, so thats not a real team location...
I cant see definitive proof that both of the red pins look any different, it just seems like the viewing angle causes it to look a little weird. They both have shadows, too.
F22Rapture
26-10-2012, 00:08
Wait... Call me crazy, but there's the mic in the picture. Maybe the addition of voice command? Like the addition of the Kinect last year.
I'm not sure about that. You have to stand several feet away from the kinect to register movements properly, and the amount of ambient noise in the stadium would make voice controls a very inconsistent proposition.
I also can't see 3 teams, since that would require an unorthodox field shape and pose all sorts of issues.
The way I see it, there's 3 main possibilities.
1. Longer matches. The screenshot was taken at exactly 3:00, and a longer hybrid period would make the Kinect a better proposition without introducing balance issues. In a mere 15 second hybrid the benefit of Kinect over what you can easily script is practically none (if not net negative) because scoring your starting gamepieces is about all you can do in that much time. Double or triple the length of hybrid, and now that entire 30-45 seconds is available to you without having to use extraordinarily complex vision processing, and Kinect becomes very heavily incentivized over a vanilla autonomous program.
2. Triple Play part dos. It's been brought up year after year in speculation (never gonna give you up...) and it fits the "sport-original-sport" schedule.
3. This is technically an unofficial hint, they're rickrolling us and it's a dead end. An ever-present possibility.
I'm going to wait until the official hint before I make any bets on anything though.
Twins Inc.
26-10-2012, 02:14
The pushpins:
If they had only put three pushpins on there, I would think that a red, yellow, and blue pin represent a new alliance, but the fact that they put a fourth red one on throws me off. If they really wanted to convey that idea, why not just leave out a pushpin? It doesnt make since to me, and has me wondering why there are two red...
I agree. There must be a reason for the two red ones. What about unbalanced (as in number of teams per alliance) alliances? For example, perhaps the red alliance is made up of two teams, the blue one, and the yellow one:
red alliance: two teams
Blue alliance: one team
Yellow (new) alliance: one team
(I guess the yellow and blue would really be "alliances"
when you are a red alliance, you have strength in numbers, but goals scored would count less (or half) of goals scored by yellow or blue.
This would add another layer of complexity to the game, and I also agree with other's posts that a 2x2x2 and definitely a 3x3x3 would get way too crowded.
Thats my two bits
wasayanwer97
26-10-2012, 11:13
Red, blue, and yellow pins, photo of Rick Astly.... YES! IT'S A WATER CHALLENGE!!!!!!
Now that that's out of the way...
I think that the recurring number 3 was just added to troll us. I would love to see a close rerun of triple play though (Never gonna give up the game??) It's my favorite game, so this would be so cool.
As far as speculation into a third alliance goes, 2 vs. 2 vs. 2 would be really interesting, but it's reading a bit too far into this. IF we're going to pay that much attention to the pins, we might as well consider a 4 vs. 2 vs. 2 with some sort of twist on scoring and multipliers as well as heavy cooperation.
From the picture we can speculate the challenge may have some play on music or sounds though. Vocal commands during hybrid?
Screen shot was taken at 3:00, so longer match maybe?
If we go by the "You know the rules and so do I" , I think of Lunacy. It was 4 years ago, so some teams probably still have at least a few members who were there during that year. Would explain the white wheels, and perhaps 'roll' refers to the reappearance of a moving goal. I would like to see this too.
Equally possible is that we're just providing some lunch-break entertainment for the people in the GDC. Can't wait to see what they send out next.
ratdude747
26-10-2012, 11:40
I also can't see 3 teams, since that would require an unorthodox field shape and pose all sorts of issues.
It could be done using the current field layout... just put one team from each alliance on each end of the field. Each end would have a red, blue, and yellow driver's station.
Since each alliance is split up like that, the microphone could be that someone on each drive team would have an earwig and microphone headset to communicate with their partner on the other side of the field.
Just a random guess, but I think it might be an interesting idea.
billbo911
26-10-2012, 12:06
One random thought I had with respect to 3 alliances is it would also address another issue facing FIRST right now. It would reduce the number of teams qualifying for World Championships.
(Although, that doesn't seem to apply this year, based on the number of teams allowed to register.)
I also can't see 3 teams, since that would require an unorthodox field shape and pose all sorts of issues.Why's that? You could do a lot of things: think about Rack 'n Roll with 3 alliances, 1 robot of each alliance starting on each end of the field. You could play anything Lunacy-like (please, no), or Overdrive-like (maybe smaller balls...), or even a weird Breakaway-type twist: 3 goals on each end, one for each alliance. No need to limit yourself to a something offering a sort of three-way symmetry.
That said, I don't expect a 2v2v2 because: the change to the FMS and other tournament structures doesn't seem worth it, it makes it more confusing to spectators, and I confess I don't really see the benefits. But heck, it's the GDC.
Jon Stratis
26-10-2012, 13:52
Another issue with 2v2v2... alliance selection will become even more unbalanced. Right now, someone in the 8th seed can progress pretty far because they get 2 picks in a row. In the first seed, they can form a "super alliance" with their first pick, but their second pick ends up providing some balance, since they pick last.
You all do realize that anything you may discuss on this thread is sure fodder for the 2014 game, right? (How else is the GDC going to come up with crazy ideas--oh. Wait. Nevermind.)
You all do realize that anything you may discuss on this thread is sure fodder for the 2014 game, right? (How else is the GDC going to come up with crazy ideas--oh. Wait. Nevermind.)
Didn't they design 2014's game already? I've heard rumors claiming they design games two years in advance ever since 2009.
Didn't they design 2014's game already? I've heard rumors claiming they design games two years in advance ever since 2009.
AFAIK, 2 years in advance was a fiction in 2009. It wasn't until at least 2011 that they started doing that.
As I understand it, it goes like this (we'll just go with the 2013/2014 games):
Kickoff 2012 happens. At that time, 2013 is well under development. Sometime around the end of the competition, 2013 starts the refining process (applying 2012 lessons and some tweaks) and 2014 starts the conceptual phase. Right about now, they'd still be in development on 2014, while making sure they have all their ducks in a row for 2013 Kickoff.
So, no, 2014 isn't designed, it's in development. I'd bet that 2013 is designed but not quite fully tweaked. 2015 is barely being thought of... yet.
At least, that's what I remember the process being, or something like that.
Robert Cawthon
26-10-2012, 15:13
I keep thinking back to Dave Lavery's "Hints." Because he was on the GDC, everything he posted was examined, torn, spindled, mutilated, and discussed to the nth degree. I am thinking that this may be the same. ::rtm::
Littleboy
26-10-2012, 15:34
Anyone remember the pictures of the elves carrying the "hint" sign last year and how they fit into kickoff? Yeah, I have a feeling this will turn out similar. People stressed over them and it turned out it wasn't any help at all.
Now on the other hand, there may be something small being showed in here, just nothing major. Anything it possibly does show, is something we already expected. For example, many people probably expected longer match times as has been discussed already.
Jibri Wright
26-10-2012, 17:47
Lol mutilated? Oh jeeze:ahh:
Perhaps the fact that there are two red pins implies unbalanced gameplay, like maybe the red alliance's goal will be different from the blue alliance's?
Peyton Yeung
27-10-2012, 00:07
Don't the rules about the wildcard slots say "Wild Card slots are filled in the order of:
1. Finalist Alliance Captain
2. Finalist First Pick
3. Finalist Second Pick
4. Finalist Backup Team"
Shouldn't this insinuate that there will be alliances of at least 3?
Don't the rules about the wildcard slots say "Wild Card slots are filled in the order of:
1. Finalist Alliance Captain
2. Finalist First Pick
3. Finalist Second Pick
4. Finalist Backup Team"
Shouldn't this insinuate that there will be alliances of at least 3?
Actually... It does the opposite. Alliances of no greater than 4 (including backup). More likely, alliances of no greater than 3.
Before 2005, there were 3-team alliances in the eliminations--but only 2 teams were on the field. (Exception, 2001, 5-team alliances with 4 on the field.) So, it is entirely possible that two-team alliances are in the offing--pick your own backup, play them at least once per round. The backup team in this case would be played under normal 3-on-the-field rules; teams just get more time to take care of broken robots by sitting them out.
Or not.
Word is ...Arduinos are in the KOP. It could very well be the return of the minibot.
Maybe Never gonna give you up means you need to accumulate game pieces by taking them away from your opponent.
S.W.A.G Napper
28-10-2012, 08:12
aybe 'Never gonna give you up' means that they're not going to give up any hints this year.
Peyton Yeung
29-10-2012, 19:54
Maybe Never gonna give you up means you need to accumulate game pieces by taking them away from your opponent.
maybe descoring
maybe descoringThis would be interesting and cool to implement technologically, given that I suspect they'll stick with some sort of automated scoring (or at least quick with not many extra volunteers).
Word is ...Arduinos are in the KOP. It could very well be the return of the minibot.
Uh, who's word?
HumblePie
30-10-2012, 11:39
Never gonna let you down
Or run around and desert you...
New endgame... Robots can climb onto a partner and be driven around a circuit and across the finish line!
stephenmcd71
30-10-2012, 14:26
Sorry I try not to post unless the info might be useful but is it just me of does the bottom left tack look like a thumbtack(flat) and the others look like pushpins?
i noticed that too maybe its 1v1v1 and that other tack represents a goal to score in
stephenmcd71
30-10-2012, 14:33
Assuming that we're not being rick rolled by the GDC (a big assumption I might add), I'm taking a literal interpretation of that photo. The song is titled "Never Gonna Give You Up" and that is also the line being sung at 3:00 when this photo was taken. That to me implies some sort of control aspect to the game, either over a game piece or field object.
If we're insistent on FIRST reusing a game element two that come quickly to mind that fit the bill are king of the hill (Stack Attack :ahh: ) and trackballs (as already suggested by Nick).
What if its like king of the hill and theres scoring periods if its three minutes with three alliances maybe 1 minute blue has to score while not giving up control of the goal (the goal being the fourth tack) then 2nd minute red thn 3rd minute yellow it seems fun
stephenmcd71
30-10-2012, 16:44
so other noted this but that bottom left tack looks flat what if its a 1v1v1 yellow blue red and its like king of the hill or a capture point game where tht flatter tack is the capture point tht one alliance has to obtain while the other two try to capture it sounds pretty fun to me and the never gonna let you go lyric would play into that capture point game
For some reason, I had the idea in my head that there would be some sort of target shaped like the Bohr model of the atom since it's its 100-year anniversary in 2013.
blue = oxygen?
red = hydrogen??
yellow = never gonna' give you up electron (Intermolecular Coulombic Decay)???
u13mbenshoshan
31-10-2012, 11:35
FIRST HAS BEGUN TO TROLL
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Were probably build a robot, send it in and then on the day of the competition, THAT song plays....
Littleboy
31-10-2012, 15:56
The field will be divided into 4 areas. The red and blue pushpins are where the endgame takes place. The red thumbtack is where robots get their scoring pieces from. The yellow pushpin is where the coopertition part takes place. The rest of the field, is covered in water. (Well, maybe not that, but it will probably be fairly open.)
S.W.A.G Napper
31-10-2012, 20:35
FIRST HAS BEGUN TO TROLL
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Were probably build a robot, send it in and then on the day of the competition, THAT song plays....
I would honestly laugh if Dean Kamen said that while he was on the podium at kickoff.
Suitster
15-11-2012, 16:35
With the inclusion of an infrared remote in FIRST Choice, as well as the line in the song "never gonna run around and desert you," it seems like an overdrive connection.
Or it could be a red herring, of course.
Alright lets work through this. Never going to give you up was a music video that appeared in 1986, the same year that Denmark won their first gold medal in the summer Olympics in the javelin throw. Javelins were first used by the romans to counteract their opponents calvary. The term "cavalry" originates from the dinosaur "cavelirous ursa". So the only logical thing the game could be is.. Robot dinosaur battle.
I don't know if this has already been discussed but in the song, rick repeats
"We know the game and we're gonna play it"
Updated previous game? maybe
Dustin Pepper
15-11-2012, 21:57
Assuming this is a real hint, the song is off of the album, "Whenever You Need Somebody." Maybe back the 2v2 with a reserve, but 2v2v2 each with a reserve? That would be kinda cool.
I don't know if this has already been discussed but in the song, rick repeats
"We know the game and we're gonna play it"
Updated previous game? maybe
I thought that too, and thats what scares me.
Personally, I think thats pretty lame, because there will be two distinct groups of teams playing in such a scenario.
Those who played the game once ago, and those who didnt. Unfair advantage, maybe?
Jon Stratis
16-11-2012, 12:32
I thought that too, and thats what scares me.
Personally, I think thats pretty lame, because there will be two distinct groups of teams playing in such a scenario.
Those who played the game once ago, and those who didnt. Unfair advantage, maybe?
If it's not a recent game (aka past 3 years), then there won't be any returning students. It's kind of hard to quantify the impact returning mentors can make, however the further back you go, you get fewer of them as well.
Further, with sites like the blue alliance, if it is a replay of a previous game, then everyone can learn the exact same information: how to play the game and what designs did well.
Also keep in mind that aspects of games have already been replayed recently. LogoMotion was similar to Rack 'N Roll when it came to picking up and hanging tubes. Rebound Rumble involved picking up and shooting balls, much like Aim High.
Daniel_LaFleur
16-11-2012, 18:39
I thought that too, and thats what scares me.
Personally, I think thats pretty lame, because there will be two distinct groups of teams playing in such a scenario.
Those who played the game once ago, and those who didnt. Unfair advantage, maybe?
I'm not so sure there would be an unfair advantage, especially if it were an old game.
Take Maize Craze for example. You could exchange the corn to (something equally obnoxious like) ping pong balls (try driving on those :P). Change the balls (for scoring) to bean bags (floppies anyone!!!), and maybe a few other tweaks .....
A game we all know (hence the rick-roll hint) but not giving any advantage. ***for that matter, Maize Craze would support the 4 thumbtacks (4 robots/teams) as well :eek: ***
279 EMPIE
16-11-2012, 19:13
Is there a second game hint out yet???
I'm not so sure there would be an unfair advantage, especially if it were an old game.
Take Maize Craze for example. You could exchange the corn to (something equally obnoxious like) ping pong balls (try driving on those :P). Change the balls (for scoring) to bean bags (floppies anyone!!!), and maybe a few other tweaks .....
A game we all know (hence the rick-roll hint) but not giving any advantage. ***for that matter, Maize Craze would support the 4 thumbtacks (4 robots/teams) as well :eek: ***
Sure, totally agree. I was referring to a COMPLETE repeat, or a near complete one. Like Rack 'n Roll vs. Logomotion is fine.
I am just saying that if they we to repeat something really close, like for say, Overdrive, teams with mentors that played through that whole season + offseason event would have a pretty good idea what mechanisms work and what dont, and how to build them. Heck, they might even still have the robot in their shop.
I dont know, independent of the team age thing, it just seems like a bit of a cop out for the GDC to me as well.
Also keep in mind that aspects of games have already been replayed recently. LogoMotion was similar to Rack 'N Roll when it came to picking up and hanging tubes. Rebound Rumble involved picking up and shooting balls, much like Aim High.
I mean sure, you could say that using the same carpet on the field lets teams use pretty much the same drive train, or same set, every year, but the lower you get the 'complexity' of the game, the harder things are to change year to year. I completely get the re-use of game pieces.
I think I found something big for this years game hint (a lot of research), Rick Astley was born on February 6th, 1966 (his picture was the game hint), on this same day in 1892 a man (Scientist/Doctor) named William P. Murphy was born, he died in the year 1987, 1987 is the year Rick Astley's song Never Gonna Give You Up came out (the Picture for the hint is from this song, and it was his biggest hit), William P. Murphy's son William P. Murphy Jr. had worked with Dean Kamen (that's right our founder) in founding FRC robotics (he was a co-founder in this and many other programs). Now keep in mind this game may have something involving and Up/Down motion because of the song. Also the pins placement/colors may be a hint, there are 2 red 1 yellow and 1 blue. Something else to keep in mind is that Rick Astley is still Alive, and preforming music, and he may do something that relates to the game (his site: www.rickastley.co.uk).
GameHint
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg
William P. Murphy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_P._Murphy
http://www.nndb.com/people/287/000127903/
William P.Murphy Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_P._Murphy_Jr.
Rick Astley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Astley
http://www.rickastley.co.uk/biography/
Dean Kamen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Kamen
I think I found something big for this years game hint (a lot of research), Rick Astley was born on February 6th, 1966 (his picture was the game hint), on this same day in 1892 a man (Scientist/Doctor) named William P. Murphy was born, he died in the year 1987, 1987 is the year Rick Astley's song Never Gonna Give You Up came out (the Picture for the hint is from this song, and it was his biggest hit), William P. Murphy's son William P. Murphy Jr. had worked with Dean Kamen (that's right our founder) in founding FRC robotics (he was a co-founder in this and many other programs). Now keep in mind this game may have something involving and Up/Down motion because of the song. Also the pins placement/colors may be a hint, there are 2 red 1 yellow and 1 blue. Something else to keep in mind is that Rick Astley is still Alive, and preforming music, and he may do something that relates to the game (his site: www.rickastley.co.uk).
Certainly more to the Rick Roll than meets the eye!
First will.i.am, then Rick Astley? Hey, stranger things could happen.
J.Warsoff
19-11-2012, 10:18
Dancing robots?
Bob Steele
19-11-2012, 14:04
Alright lets work through this. Never going to give you up was a music video that appeared in 1986, the same year that Denmark won their first gold medal in the summer Olympics in the javelin throw. Javelins were first used by the romans to counteract their opponents calvary. The term "cavalry" originates from the dinosaur "cavelirous ursa". So the only logical thing the game could be is.. Robot dinosaur battle.
Genius!!
i would never have made this connection...
We are going to stock up on Dinosaur parts and possibly Danish Javelins...
( I think Walmart just dropped those items from their online store though...
this, in itself, is a hint....
Cavelirous ursa... the bear like dinosaur....
In truth, scouring the large box, sporting goods and toy stores for items that they are discontinuing after Christmas is a reasonable approach to finding out what the gamepiece may be....
I'll get on that right away....
279 EMPIE
19-11-2012, 15:06
Wal-mart season, only can use parts u can get from Wal-mart. Besides the first provided electronics. :p this would be awesome
JohnFogarty
19-11-2012, 15:24
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that FIRST for the past 3 years has used the color yellow to signify the END GAME portion up on the game clock on the screen at FTC and FRC regionals alike.
Littleboy
19-11-2012, 15:43
All pins are equivaillent to 40 seconds
Red - Teleoperated
Blue - Auton/Hybrid
Yellow - Endgame
This will
Teleoperated 1 - first 40 seconds
Auton/Hybird - next 40 seconds
Teleoperated 2 - next 40 seconds
End Game - final 40 seconds
That would encourage Kinect use because you probably won't start exactly like you need to.
synth3tk
19-11-2012, 15:45
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that FIRST for the past 3 years has used the color yellow to signify the END GAME portion up on the game clock on the screen at FTC and FRC regionals alike.
That, along with the fact that the screenshot is from the 3:00 mark exactly, might actually bear some weight.
Chris is me
19-11-2012, 16:01
Fun fact about the "repeated game" theory: At FRC Live this year, Bill Miller said that if they didn't make a 2013 game in time, they would just play Aim High again. He also said that they did manage to make a new 2013 game, so that wasn't going to happen. That's probably good, as two shooting games in a row wouldn't be fantastic.
I don't think a replay of an old game would be that bad. The best games seem to be at least a little rehashed.
Michael Hill
19-11-2012, 17:18
"You know the rules and so do I"
We're replaying last year's game!
Just wanted to float this really old video out there to answer everyone's questions about next year's game. Even though it was about the 2002 season, it still holds some merit. Pay attention to Dean and Woodie at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ua5iYUI6A
Hint or not, if you want to guess what the next year's game in one FIRST program, it will serve you well to look at what the other challenges in other years have contained. Last year FRC had balancing on bridges. The year before that FTC had (wait for it) balancing on bridges. This year FLL has, yep you guessed it, balancing on a "bridge" or at least a tippy platform.
Last year FTC had a flock of little balls, a couple of bowling balls, and some crates to stack. How much of that makes it to the 2013 FRC game remains to be seen. In the light of all the analyses that mention rolling, never giving UP and knowing the game, etc., it would seem that ignoring the other programs' games will leave out too many possibilities.
This year's FTC challenge has rings on pegs and lifting the alliance robot off the mat in the end game. Sound familiar?
Oh, about the third alliance idea? Hate, hate, hate the prospect! Irrespective of having a crowded field, anyone else itching to make a third set of colored bumpers? That's the payoff for inventing faster ways to change them? Thanks, but no thanks, GDC!
Fun fact about the "repeated game" theory: At FRC Live this year, Bill Miller said that if they didn't make a 2013 game in time, they would just play Aim High again. He also said that they did manage to make a new 2013 game, so that wasn't going to happen. That's probably good, as two shooting games in a row wouldn't be fantastic.
I don't think a replay of an old game would be that bad. The best games seem to be at least a little rehashed.
I thought he said that if they didnt make a new 2012 game they would replay aim high.
JohnFogarty
20-11-2012, 09:44
Yeah, that's what he said. ^
There was no reference to aim high for 2013.
jwallace15
20-11-2012, 22:01
Hardcore Robotics Pick-Up Sticks.
This is from the first page of this thread.
Have you ever seen those boats that tow logs near logging camps? Like these:
http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/BIN1134.jpg
Sticky = sticks, which come off of logs.
Another anagram is "Cry, it's lake!" WATER GAME.
Maybe lake as in water game?
Robots are boats that have to drag logs into their zones. These logs will gather X amount of points. More advanced robots can pick up the logs and move them to conveyors along the perimeter of the field. These are worth Y amount of points. There could be platforms (6 for 6 robots) around the outside of the field. The robots would have to pick themselves out of the water and move onto these platforms.
There's my crazy idea :D
And I thought Truck Town was crazy before James joined...
There's my crazy idea :DI think the word you're looking for is terrifying. ::ouch::
CrazyHorse
21-11-2012, 09:12
Alright lets work through this. Never going to give you up was a music video that appeared in 1986, the same year that Denmark won their first gold medal in the summer Olympics in the javelin throw. Javelins were first used by the romans to counteract their opponents calvary. The term "cavalry" originates from the dinosaur "cavelirous ursa". So the only logical thing the game could be is.. Robot dinosaur battle.
Made my day.
Elong451
27-11-2012, 15:27
Alright lets work through this. Never going to give you up was a music video that appeared in 1986, the same year that Denmark won their first gold medal in the summer Olympics in the javelin throw. Javelins were first used by the romans to counteract their opponents calvary. The term "cavalry" originates from the dinosaur "cavelirous ursa". So the only logical thing the game could be is.. Robot dinosaur battle.
Oh god rotfl.
Seriously though. There is a guy in one of my classes that says "Water game" like it's a thing but he has no idea about robotics. It's creeping me out.
Hm... pins... rolling... Rick Astley...
Bowling?
Or potentially, since a rick is a stack of some sort of crop plant, it could be a game about stacking something (tetra or Rubbermaid tote anyone?), and potentially knocking it over with what I would presume would be a type of ball.
Hm... pins... rolling... Rick Astley...
Bowling?
Or potentially, since a rick is a stack of some sort of crop plant, it could be a game about stacking something (tetra or Rubbermaid tote anyone?), and potentially knocking it over with what I would presume would be a type of ball.
Could be, check out last year's FTC game animation http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/past-seasons-archive , its got bowling, knocking things over and stacking....hmmm
Three minute match duration per Rick Astley still photo.
At the centerline of the field there are eight duelling tree targets (something like this: www.kisstactical.com/catalog_detail.php?product_id=11725). On every tree each of the eight individual targets has a different color on opposing sides (red, blue, yellow).
Prior to the match, the red alliance secretly pre-stages colors on targets on four of the eight trees (north side of the field). Blue does the same for the four other trees (south side). Alliances can divulge the target color pattern to the opposing alliance prior to the match or not (aka rick-roll).
The hybrid portion of the match starts when the tarp (www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192364) is pulled back revealing the trees and target color combinations.
Two of the three alliance partner robots begin the match tethered together (explains the reference to a number of "couplers" in FIRST Choice).
During the 45 second hybrid mode, robots attempt to create columns of targets facing them that match their alliance's color (like the game Connect Four) by selectively shooting targets on the trees. Less advanced teams use the IR remote while more advanced teams use the Kinect to steer, detect color and aim.
A sub-total score is captured automatically at the end of hybrid.
Similar play continues in tele-op.
At the end of the match, Connect Four type scores are tallied. Alliances get bonus points for maintaining their two-robot tether (www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-009.htm) throughout the entire match. Extra bonus points are awarded to both alliances if, at the end buzzer, one robot from the red alliance is tethered to one robot from the blue alliance.
Either that or a robot tug of war.
This year's FLL game also has a bowling mission.
Hm... pins... rolling... Rick Astley...
Bowling?
Or potentially, since a rick is a stack of some sort of crop plant, it could be a game about stacking something (tetra or Rubbermaid tote anyone?), and potentially knocking it over with what I would presume would be a type of ball.
I dont think anyone said this before, and very interesting. I think that piece of evidence is worth more than anything we've had or a stacking game so far. It also sounds like something the GDC would do. They're smart people, Im sure one of them knew what a "rick" was.
Then again, they could not have and it could be a coincidence (I'd like to think it isnt though :) ).
JohnFogarty
28-11-2012, 12:31
The lead character on The Walking Dead's name is "Rick" Grimes. Zombie Apocalypse game. I declare it to be true.
I dont think anyone said this before, and very interesting. I think that piece of evidence is worth more than anything we've had or a stacking game so far. It also sounds like something the GDC would do. They're smart people, Im sure one of them knew what a "rick" was.
Then again, they could not have and it could be a coincidence (I'd like to think it isnt though :) ).
Well, I just figure they're pulling a 2011 where they give us the name of the game early, which in this case would be "Rick Roll", and thus leads to the natural question of "What's a rick?". One google search later, and that's what I came up with.
jwallace15
28-11-2012, 16:04
Hm... pins... rolling... Rick Astley...
Bowling?
I disagree with bowling. Not in a bad way, but if you'll notice, the FRC game was a sports related game last year (basketball).
2010: Breakaway: sports related (soccer).
2008: Overdrive: sports related (NASCAR. Yes, it is a sport).
Notice the pattern? Every 2 years (since 2008) there has been a sports related game. If they continue this pattern, it probably won't be a bowling related game. I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, but I'm saying I think it's unlikely.
Is bowling really a sport though?
I disagree with bowling. Not in a bad way, but if you'll notice, the FRC game was a sports related game last year (basketball).
2010: Breakaway: sports related (soccer).
2008: Overdrive: sports related (NASCAR. Yes, it is a sport).
Notice the pattern? Every 2 years (since 2008) there has been a sports related game. If they continue this pattern, it probably won't be a bowling related game. I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, but I'm saying I think it's unlikely.
I think this pattern is pretty apparant, but just because they've followed it in the past doesn't mean they must continue to do so.
From a personal perspective, I'm very much in favor of sports-related games. They are far easier to explain, and therefore more captivating, to those outside of FIRST. Explaining that you are "building a robot that plays basketball [and balances on a bridge]" is far easier for someone to visualize and understand than "building a robot that puts up inflatable tubes in the shape of the FIRST logo on a wall of pegs [and deploys a minibot that climbs a pole]". Logomotion was a great spectator sport for those in FIRST and casual fans alike, but explaining it beforehand was a bit more difficult.
Is bowling really a sport though?
Ooh boy, not sure we want to go there :P Any Big Lebowski fans around?
I think this pattern is pretty apparant, but just because they've followed it in the past doesn't mean they must continue to do so.
From a personal perspective, I'm very much in favor of sports-related games. They are far easier to explain, and therefore more captivating, to those outside of FIRST. Explaining that you are "building a robot that plays basketball [and balances on a bridge]" is far easier for someone to visualize and understand than "building a robot that puts up inflatable tubes in the shape of the FIRST logo on a wall of pegs [and deploys a minibot that climbs a pole]". Logomotion was a great spectator sport for those in FIRST and casual fans alike, but explaining it beforehand was a bit more difficult.
Not only is it easier to explain, but it makes people more impressed/excited about the game. Robots that play basketball sounds a whole lot "Cooler" than robots that hang innertubes on pegs.
Of course they both get me very excited, but then again, I live FIRST.
nickpaterni
29-11-2012, 09:33
I think this pattern is pretty apparant, but just because they've followed it in the past doesn't mean they must continue to do so.
From a personal perspective, I'm very much in favor of sports-related games. They are far easier to explain, and therefore more captivating, to those outside of FIRST. Explaining that you are "building a robot that plays basketball [and balances on a bridge]" is far easier for someone to visualize and understand than "building a robot that puts up inflatable tubes in the shape of the FIRST logo on a wall of pegs [and deploys a minibot that climbs a pole]". Logomotion was a great spectator sport for those in FIRST and casual fans alike, but explaining it beforehand was a bit more difficult.
I totally agree here - although last year was my first year mentoring a team, I think the simplicity of the basic game made it exciting to watch and really showcased the driving ability of the drivers - they weren't having to think about complicated strategies; just play the game. I think these type of games are really positive both to those watching as to those competing. I hope FIRST continues in that vein!
I totally agree here - although last year was my first year mentoring a team, I think the simplicity of the basic game made it exciting to watch and really showcased the driving ability of the drivers - they weren't having to think about complicated strategies; just play the game. I think these type of games are really positive both to those watching as to those competing. I hope FIRST continues in that vein!
I would disagree with your point that "they weren't having to think about complicated strategies" -- strong alliances always have incredibly well planned and cohesive strategies.
Bottom line though, keeping the game "consumer friendly" is something I hope the GDC definitely continues.
I totally agree here - although last year was my first year mentoring a team, I think the simplicity of the basic game made it exciting to watch and really showcased the driving ability of the drivers - they weren't having to think about complicated strategies; just play the game. I think these type of games are really positive both to those watching as to those competing. I hope FIRST continues in that vein!
As a driver at an off-season event, I have to say that there were tons of strategy items you had to consider to be successful.
Do we balance or do we keep shooting?
How far down can we let the timer get before we just don't have time to balance?
Do we just keep trying to shoot from the key, or do we try to draw a penalty from a robot trying to keep me off my favorite shooting spot?
Do we risk going in the lane, or is there an opposing robot nearby that can make us pay for even trying to collect those balls?
Do we tell one of our alliance partners to go feed me balls to shoot from the other side? (See: Team 16 The Bomb Squad on Einstein, assisting teams 25 and 180)
Do we go for shooting, or do we protect our alliance partner that has to be in contact with the bump to score?
Unless your robots and drivers are just a dominating combination on shooting, your strategy has to be a bit more detailed than "We're going to try to score more points than the other team."
I'm not saying I don't like that strategy, but if you're using just that, you're either doing very well, or very poor.
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