FIRST Choice [Archive] - Chief Delphi

Gregor

12-11-2012, 13:39

FIRST Choice is now available at http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-s/411.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=411&show=80&page=1

Some things that stand out:
Talons: (Legal maybe?)
IR stuff: similar to 2008?
Eccentric Bearing: what could this be used for, other than some kind of game object?
I/O module:???
New window motors: what differences are there?
Snow blower motor: new

Phyrxes

12-11-2012, 13:48

2013 Manual not withstanding in the past FIRST choice has been synonymous with included in the KOP.

New motors, likely to be three motor controllers to pick from, and a whole slew of new toys.

Anybody else have an Overdrive flashback when they saw the remote?

ttldomination

12-11-2012, 13:50

Anybody else have an Overdrive flashback when they saw the remote?

More like a nightmare, but yes.

- Sunny G.

MattC9

12-11-2012, 13:57

Ring light- retro reflective tape (?)
IR remote- some sort of IR receiver on robot (?)
Photo switch- lines on field to follow(?)

cRIO- YESSSSS
Classmate- YESSSS

There are defiantly a few items on there that are worth a game theory. Also I can not be more excited to see the cRIO and classmates on there for this year, well done FIRST choice, well done...

JohnChristensen

12-11-2012, 13:58

I am looking for the post, but I believe it was stated that anything on FIRST Choice will be 2013 FRC Legal. Looks like Talons are going to be allowed.

Rangel(kf7fdb)

12-11-2012, 14:07

AdamHeard

12-11-2012, 14:13

The most interesting thing to me is the gaming graphics card. Could there be something in the game that requires a lot of graphics processing on the robot or are they just making it available to help teams who want to cad?

Nvidia has been handing similar cards out at a few regionals over the years, I think this must just be an extension of that.

We have 2-3 gtx 480's from them.

Travis Hoffman

12-11-2012, 14:15

FIRST Choice is now available at http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-s/411.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=411&show=80&page=1

Talons: (Legal maybe?)

Talons ARE FIRST legal, per an email just received from AndyMark. $59 base price - quantity discounts available.

http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm

Tom Line

12-11-2012, 14:16

And I just went to look at them, and they're $59! Talk about competition being healthy.

ehochstein

12-11-2012, 14:17

IR transmitter
Infrared Thermometer
New motors?! =O
3D Print Job voucher? Awesome!
Laser distance meter for your robot? Are they changing the laser rules?
cRIO as a part of FIRST Choice?!?!

This is awesome!

AdamHeard

12-11-2012, 14:17

And I just went to look at them, and they're $59! Talk about competition being healthy.

Or $54 if you buy 4 at a time.

Tom Line

12-11-2012, 14:19

Hmmmm. I wonder if there is an even bigger discount for 20 :D

Regarding the IR remote control - please please tell me that's not coming back...

CalTran

12-11-2012, 14:20

Talons ARE FIRST legal, per an email just received from AndyMark. $59 base price - quantity discounts available.

http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm

And we just bought 12 of them. Sorry IFI, we were about to buy 10 but this was an offer we just couldn't refuse...

Taylor

12-11-2012, 14:30

Laser distance meter for your robot? Are they changing the laser rules?

I doubt circular saws are legal* for the robot, but they're on FIRST Choice.

*maybe if you filed down sharp parts to R0.125 ...

Nate Laverdure

12-11-2012, 14:33

I see a ratcheting subtheme. And braided steel cable. Winch game?

Gary Dillard

12-11-2012, 14:40

Talons ARE FIRST legal, per an email just received from AndyMark. $59 base price - quantity discounts available.

http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm

Emails from AndyMark are considered an official communication from FIRST? Could you point me toward that ruling?

I would infer rather that they are legal because they are in FIRST Choice, not because of the AndyMark email.

maddoctor90

12-11-2012, 14:44

FIRST really needs to come out with an official statement on which motor controllers will be legal and soon!

vhcook

12-11-2012, 14:45

maddoctor90

12-11-2012, 14:48

What are jaw couplings (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-080.htm) used for? (I've linked one of the many on the list.) I'm normally more electrical/programming than mechanical, and this is a new part for me.

Two jaw couplings go together with a rubber piece in the middle to create on shaft coupler with some advantages over just a solid connection. Here is some information from the manufacturer of the ones we have used in the past.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/jaw-type-couplings.aspx

Gary Dillard

12-11-2012, 14:48

What are jaw couplings (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-080.htm) used for? (I've linked one of the many on the list.) I'm normally more electrical/programming than mechanical, and this is a new part for me.

They're used to connect 2 coaxial shafts together (one driven, the other the driver). They generally isolate shock between the components and can handle some amount of mis-alignment between the axes.

jason701802

12-11-2012, 14:55

Considering this post (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-11-02-12) on FRC blog (the last bullet point), I'd consider the Talon a legal controller for the 2013 season

MrBasse

12-11-2012, 15:14

Or you could look at the subject of the First Choice email sent out today...

FIRST Choice Viewing Now Open/Talons FIRST Legal

Mark McLeod

12-11-2012, 15:21

Or you could look at the subject of the First Choice email sent out today...

FIRST Choice Viewing Now Open/Talons FIRST Legal

Emails from AndyMark are considered an official communication from FIRST? Could you point me toward that ruling?

I would infer rather that they are legal because they are in FIRST Choice, not because of the AndyMark email.

Circular postings?

F22Rapture

12-11-2012, 16:05

Nvidia has been handing similar cards out at a few regionals over the years, I think this must just be an extension of that.

We have 2-3 gtx 480's from them.

And which regionals might that be? :D

jason701802

12-11-2012, 16:20

And which regionals might that be? :D

We got one at both Portland and Seattle a few years ago. As far as I know, they only did it that year.

Camren

12-11-2012, 16:24

I see a ratcheting subtheme. And braided steel cable. Winch game?

maybe that is what the new bearings our for. Idea what if you had to winch yourself off the ground for endgame.

dcarr

12-11-2012, 16:27

We got one at both Portland and Seattle a few years ago. As far as I know, they only did it that year.

We got a GTX 480 at LA in 2011.

DampRobot

12-11-2012, 16:30

maybe that is what the new bearings our for. Idea what if you had to winch yourself off the ground for endgame.

The bearings with the groove around the outside, which come in eccentric and concentric varieties, are for the linear rail also avalible in FIRST Choice. It's leads me to think elevator game, rather than winch game.

Then again, we saw the same linear slides in the 2012 FIRST Choice, so take these indicators with a grain of salt. Besides some interesting indicators (IR remote anyone?), I would be very reluctant to deduce anything from this list other than that the Talon will be legal next year.

Gary Dillard

12-11-2012, 16:51

And which regionals might that be? :D

Smoky Mountain (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97674) in 2011

MARS_James

12-11-2012, 16:55

And which regionals might that be? :D

Orlando in 2010 and 2011

We got one both times

SarahBeth

12-11-2012, 17:21

The snow blower motor made me raise my eyebrow. So did the sonar sensor and the laser distance meter.

So we're either moving snow or playing Battleship.

Got it. :D ::rtm::

Gregor

12-11-2012, 17:37

The snow blower motor made me raise my eyebrow. So did the sonar sensor and the laser distance meter.

So we're either moving snow or playing Battleship.

Got it. :D ::rtm::

or both :rolleyes:

IndySam

12-11-2012, 17:57

The eccentric grooved wheels, regular grooved wheels and guide track were in last years First Choice. They are nothing new.

Lot of things are Granger just clearing out old stock like the crank ratchet and steel cable.

So don't read to much into anything in First Choice game wise.

Focus on the lots cool stuff like the new Clippard tanks, new style compressors, new couplers, and talons. Great work by the KOP team.

DampRobot

12-11-2012, 18:14

Focus on the lots cool stuff like the new Clippard tanks, new style compressors, new couplers, and talons. Great work by the KOP team.

I thought the Clippard tank was back from last year, and that the compressor was the same that was legal starting in 2011. Did I miss something? Does the compressor have a larger cubic feet per minute rating?

IndySam

12-11-2012, 18:20

I thought the Clippard tank was back from last year, and that the compressor was the same that was legal starting in 2011. Did I miss something? Does the compressor have a larger cubic feet per minute rating?

The new plastic tank is what I was referring too and the compressor is the same as the last two years but was never available in First Choice.

FrankJ

12-11-2012, 18:33

circular saw? Battle bots? We don't need no stinking bumpers!!!

CalTran

12-11-2012, 19:07

circular saw? Battle bots? We don't need no stinking bumpers!!!

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-09-18-12

Pool Noodles

Buy them, if you don’t have them already, for your 2013 bumpers.

Travis Hoffman

12-11-2012, 19:21

Emails from AndyMark are considered an official communication from FIRST? Could you point me toward that ruling?

I would infer rather that they are legal because they are in FIRST Choice, not because of the AndyMark email.

Andy Baker not wanting to cheese off a significant portion of his customer base by lying to us is good enough of a reason for me to believe him. :cool:

maddoctor90

12-11-2012, 21:19

Andy Baker not wanting to cheese off a significant portion of his customer base by lying to us is good enough of a reason for me to believe him. :cool:

I would agree that there is plenty of evidence that the Talons will be legal. What I don't get is why FIRST won't be more direct on these things so all teams (especially rookie ones who who may not be aware of all the channels of communication) have an equal opportunity and understanding.

z_beeblebrox

12-11-2012, 21:36

Why are the graphics cards available?

Jibsy

12-11-2012, 21:40

FIRST really needs to come out with an official statement on which motor controllers will be legal and soon!

"It’s safe to assume that if you see a robot component in FIRST Choice when it opens for “window shopping” on November 12th, it will be legal for teams to use in the 2013 season. Please don’t go all ‘lawyer’ on me with this one. Use good judgment. If you see a plasma cutter available in FIRST Choice, you should not think you’ll be able to put it on your robot. (Spoiler: There will be no plasma cutters available in FIRST Choice). "

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-11-02-12

You can be sure that Talons, Jags, and Victors will all be legal!

MagiChau

12-11-2012, 22:09

Why are the graphics cards available?

Animation and CAD software are resource intensive especially with rendering the graphics. High performance cards run hundreds of dollars to buy brand new. I am guessing the value in credits from Andymark in actual money would cost less than buying it at retail price.

I assume NVIDIA decided to not only give gfx cards to help teams at regionals they show up at but to all teams through FIRST Choice. I don't know if they offered cards for a generous discounted price so take it as just a possible speculation.

Kevin Selavko

13-11-2012, 03:35

Animation and CAD software are resource intensive especially with rendering the graphics. High performance cards run hundreds of dollars to buy brand new. I am guessing the value in credits from Andymark in actual money would cost less than buying it at retail price.

I assume NVIDIA decided to not only give gfx cards to help teams at regionals they show up at but to all teams through FIRST Choice. I don't know if they offered cards for a generous discounted price so take it as just a possible speculation.

Not discounted, free! They donated them, I assume that is so if you like the card you may buy one for yourself, but ours is still nicely wrapped up because we haven't had the time to build a compatible computer :p (In close to two years!)

David Doerr

13-11-2012, 11:15

Jon Stratis

13-11-2012, 11:51

Some items might be included in the KoP, others might not. For example, last year everyone got 1 battery (rookies got a second one) in the KoP, but you could order more on FIRST Choice. However, the compressor wasn't included in the KoP, but you could get it on FIRST Choice.

The best information we have right now is last year's KoP (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2012_Assets/KickoffKitChecklistRev_A.pdf). With it, you can get an idea of what we might be getting this year, however it could all change!

IKE

13-11-2012, 15:38

Thanks to this, (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-067.htm) Johnny 5 decided to throw some smack talk at the FRC 2013 robots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdCf5cicrYU

Gary Dillard

13-11-2012, 15:59

I wonder if the items that can now be seen on FIRST Choice will not be in the KOP - joysticks, classmate, camera, batteries, window motors, pneumatics components ... ?

I was not on a team last year and I didn't see the 2012 FIRST Choice. How did it work last year?

Last year each team was given some amount of credits (I don't even remember how many) and you could select different quantities of things within limits (you could only get a maximum of 2 batteries, for example). We got to preview the items similar to this year, but we didn't find out how many credits we would get or how many credits each item would be until ordering went live. I think the quantities available were revealed at the same time The more popular (biggest bargain) items went VERY quickly, and once they're gone they're gone (sounds like that will be the same this year. Here's what we ended up with:

2 of : Battery (fc12-21)
2 of : Encoders, 2 pack (fc12-66)
2 of : Foam Basketball (fc12-58)
1 of : iglide Sliding Slewing Ring Bearing (fc12-52)
2 of : Limit switch, roller lever actuated (fc12-48)
2 of : Van Door Motor (fc12-72)

maddoctor90

13-11-2012, 16:08

Thanks to this, (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-067.htm) Johnny 5 decided to throw some smack talk at the FRC 2013 robots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdCf5cicrYU

I think of the same thing every time a snow blower motor is mentioned.

whcirobotics

13-11-2012, 19:01

Thanks to this, (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-067.htm) Johnny 5 decided to throw some smack talk at the FRC 2013 robots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdCf5cicrYU

What a great addition to the KOP, a window motor that has a real output shaft to mate things too. No more funny adaptors, cool.

cj3958

13-11-2012, 20:26

Why is there an eight slot cRIO?

Alex.q

14-11-2012, 14:34

This is probably a dumb question, but all the FIRST Choice items say they are out of stock. This isn't actually true is it?

bardd

14-11-2012, 14:38

This is probably a dumb question, but all the FIRST Choice items say they are out of stock. This isn't actually true is it?

That's because you're not allowed to order them... Once FIRST Choice opens for orders it'll be sorted out. Some products would probably be Out of Stock again within an hour though :P

Kevin Selavko

15-11-2012, 16:00

What is the job of the 3M Link Connector?

Alan Anderson

15-11-2012, 16:19

The 3M Link Connector is...a connector. It lets you connect and disconnect wires. It's sort of like a tiny version of the Anderson battery connector, for 18 gauge wires. One of the models handles two wires, the other handles four. I think it's intended for ribbon cable style cabling.

Kevin Selavko

15-11-2012, 18:15

Sorry I meant what they connect to, so they are just to connect to each other for easy wire unplugs?

Mark McLeod

15-11-2012, 19:07

Last year each team was given some amount of credits (I don't even remember how many) ...
Each team got 100 credits last year.
Apparently it's the same this year: YOUR TEAM GETS 100 FIRST CHOICE CREDITS! (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm)

To refresh our memories here's last year's menu (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11302&d=1326145496) listing the credits for each item. Bear in mind that the values may change this year, and several items are new.

Chris_Ely

15-11-2012, 19:48

Each team got 100 credits last year.
Apparently it's the same this year: YOUR TEAM GETS 100 FIRST CHOICE CREDITS! (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm)

Sorry, but the top of the page says: FIRST Choice 2012 is closed. We are currently testing for 2013, please disregard any information found here, as it's probably incorrect.
We probably won't know the credit value until ordering opens.

DominickC

15-11-2012, 19:48

What's the advantage of the 3M wire connectors versus an Anderson Powerpole?

RufflesRidge

15-11-2012, 20:34

Each team got 100 credits last year.
Apparently it's the same this year: YOUR TEAM GETS 100 FIRST CHOICE CREDITS! (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm)

From the top of the page you linked to:

FIRST Choice 2012 is closed. We are currently testing for 2013, please disregard any information found here, as it's probably incorrect.

Mark McLeod

15-11-2012, 20:46

Yea, missed that. Even without that message I'd suspect things would change for the actual opening day.

Alan Anderson

16-11-2012, 01:20

What's the advantage of the 3M wire connectors versus an Anderson Powerpole?

The 3M Links are IDC (insulation displacement) connectors. You put unstripped 18 gauge wire into them and they pierce the insulation and make contact with the conductor. So you don't need to strip the wires, and you don't need to crimp terminals onto them.

Powerpoles, on the other hand, handle larger wire and a lot more current.

dellagd

16-11-2012, 12:27

Thanks to this, (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-067.htm) Johnny 5 decided to throw some smack talk at the FRC 2013 robots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdCf5cicrYU

No Disassemble! No Disassemble!

Sorry, I had to, saying that the programming team said that all the time in last build season.