VEX Robotics Relaunches VEXpro Product Line with over 120 New & Improved Products

[Ricky Q.]

GREENVILLE, TEXAS (December 5, 2012) — VEX Robotics, Inc., announced today a full restructuring of its VEXpro product line with product updates and new releases, giving high-end competitive roboticists superior performance at a lower price. The release includes over 120 new products, including DC motors, gearboxes and wheels.

“We are extremely excited about the re-launch of our VEXpro product line,” said Paul Copioli, president of VEX Robotics. “Competitive robotics teams that build large-scale robots can now do more for significantly less cost.”

Highlights of the VEXpro line include - VEXpro Ball Shifters (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/ball-shifter/ball-shifter.html) that utilize a ball lock shifting method accomplished with a lightweight and compact pancake pneumatic cylinder that is included, VersaPlanetary (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/versaplanetary.html) gearboxes that allow for multitudes of gear ratio options and motor choices without requiring a custom pinion gear, and the VersaHub (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/versahubs.html) system that ensures precise alignment of wheels and sprockets with the high quality nature of all VEXpro gears and sprockets.

“Competitive robotics enthusiasts will be highly impressed by all of the subtle details in these new products,” said John V-Neun, director of product development for VEX Robotics. “We designed the new VEXpro products to be easily integrated into almost any application, with no frustration or workarounds required.”

The updates to the VEXpro product line launch just in time for the 2013 FIRST Robotics Competition season, of which VEX Robotics and parent company Innovation First International are proud supporters. The companies donate products to the competition’s kit of parts and provide support and mentors to competition teams.

For information about VEXpro, visit www.vexpro.com

About VEX Robotics, Inc.
VEX Robotics, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Innovation First International, is a leading provider of educational and competitive robotics products to middle schools, high schools, colleges and robotics teams around the world. The VEX Robotics Design System, winner of the 2006 Best of Innovations Award at CES, was built from the ground up and designed to be an affordable, accessible and scalable platform used to teach science, technology, engineering and math education worldwide. The VEXpro product line, designed for large scale competitive robots, gives robotics enthusiasts superior performance for less cost. The company has over 250 man years of experience supporting educational robotics programs and extensive engineering resources on two continents dedicated to the VEX Robotics platform. For more information on VEX Robotics, visit www.vexrobotics.com.
###

[AdamHeard]

It all looks like great stuff. Really a game changer I think.

[akoscielski3]

IT'S LIKE FIRSTmas CAME EARLY THIS YEAR!!!

THANKS VEXPro!

[Akash Rastogi]

These prices are mind blowing.

[Steven Donow]

Awesome stuff, awesome prices, and awesome stuff again :)

[BleakRNS]

This looks pretty darn cool. Thanks, VEX.

[AlecMataloni]

Aaaaaaaaaand the website's down. :D

This stuff is just plain awesome. I'm proud to be on a team sponsored by such a fantastic company.

EDIT: Back up again.

[Ricky Q.]

Some more information on the VEXpro Product Line Relaunch:

VEXpro Product Enhancement Launch Video (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-EldvhSFQ)

All products are available to be ordered now. Orders received before December 21st in the US and the 14th in Canada are guaranteed to ship before kickoff.

Post any questions you have in this thread and myself, Paul Copioli and John V-Neun will answer them as quick as we can.

Best,
Ricky

[dcarr]

Some more information on the VEXpro Product Line Relaunch:

VEXpro Product Enhancement Launch Video (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-EldvhSFQ)


Total Apple-style video there! Well done guys! :D

[Brandon Martus]

Aaaaaaaaaand the website's down. :D

This stuff is just plain awesome. I'm proud to be on a team sponsored by such a fantastic company.

EDIT: Back up again.
We're adding more web servers to handle the load .. should be better shortly.

[akoscielski3]

AND we killed the site.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see above posts

[Steven Donow]

Some more information on the VEXpro Product Line Relaunch:

VEXpro Product Enhancement Launch Video (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-EldvhSFQ)

All products are available to be ordered now. Orders received before December 21st in the US and the 14th in Canada are guaranteed to ship before kickoff.

Post any questions you have in this thread and myself, Paul Copioli and John V-Neun will answer them as quick as we can.

Best,
Ricky

All products being available includes usage of the PDV, right?(I ask here instead of looking it up primarily because I didn't get the chance to look while the site was up)

[CalTran]

I cannot believe it. We literally just bought $150 in bearings from McMaster on Monday. We could have gotten them all for half as much if we knew this was coming. These products and prices are absolutely jaw dropping.

8 .5 flanged bearings and 8 .375 flanged bearings on McMaster - $127.20
8 .5 flanged bearings and 8 .375 flanged bearings on VexPro - $31.84

...

*TABLE FLIP*

[ehfeinberg]

How can VEX offer prices that low?

No, but really... The Mecanum wheels are half as expensive as AndyMark! And the ball shifter is also half as expensive as the super shifter. These parts are absolutely amazing. Your going to put AndyMark out of business.:D

I kind of wish we could use the PDV for gearboxes instead of motor controllers. Those gearboxes are beautiful.

[Steven Donow]

How can VEX offer prices that low?

No, but really... The Mecanum wheels are half as expensive as AndyMark! And the ball shifter is also half as expensive as the super shifter. These parts are absolutely amazing. Your going to put AndyMark out of business.:D

I kind of wish we could use the PDV for gearboxes instead of motor controllers. Those gearboxes are beautiful.

Just to show how cheap there are, I ran some numbers, and the Ball Shifter gearbox, 3 stages (2nd option on the product page) with every accessory(let's just say, for numerical purposes, they're spare parts-plenty of it is included) is $277.92 for one of each(no CIM). That's insane.

[BJC]

We were just about to buy over $100 in wheels at Andymark. Now I think we'll probably buy those beautiful VersaWheels for a mear $40.

Amazing work guys, I've already started downloading all of the CAD models.

Thanks!, Bryan

[BrendanB]

It all looks like great stuff. Really a game changer I think.

This really is a game changer! As a team with limited resources at our disposal certain designs are much feasible with these new product lines!

Thank you IFI!!!

EDIT: Already placed an order!

[connor.worley]

IFI has been nothing but impressive recently. This is great!

[team222badbrad]

222 is very excited to see someone finally producing Ball Lock transmissions! Something some of us 222 mentors have been dreaming of for years now! :D

We spend more than the asking price of IFI's whole transmission on gears alone just to build ours every year for the last eight years going on nine!

I see lots of nice products at amazing prices! We can't wait to check out and try out the Ball Lock shifters!

I cannot believe it. We literally just bought $150 in bearings from McMaster on Monday. We could have gotten them all for half as much if we knew this was coming. These products and prices are absolutely jaw dropping.
McMaster has an amazing return policy! You don't even need to pick up a phone or get an RMA.
http://www.mcmaster.com/mcm/openhelp.asp?browserOK=true&sesnextrep=185479759534945&helpContext=return

[Andy Baker]

GREENVILLE, TEXAS (December 5, 2012) — VEX Robotics, Inc., announced today a full restructuring of its VEXpro product line ...

Nice job to my friends in Texas for putting together a good line of FRC-ready parts. The FIRST community will certainly benefit from competitive products.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[Andrew Lawrence]

This is amazing. Things just get better each time I go to the site and read everything over again.

One big question I have (and I'm sure more people have), is when we can get some detailed specs on those VersaWheels. I know a lot of teams have been thinking of going Colson lately, but if these provide decent enough competition I think we may see a lot of teams changing their minds.

Of course, while this is awesome, AndyMark will always hold a special place in my heart. :P

[Jared Russell]

AWESOME work!

Some questions on the ball-lock 3-stage: how do you envision mounting this? From the CAD it looks like there aren't any remaining holes for face mounting, and the flange on the bottom looks like it will flex.

EDIT: Also, any COF data on the new wheels/tread?

EDIT 2: What is the ratio between the output shaft and the encoder shaft in all three configurations? Arg! So many questions :)

EDIT 3: (Until I'm directed elsewhere, I'm just going to dump my questions here) Are the broaches on the versahubs all aligned relative to the bolt circle identically? For a 2" wide wheel, it looks like 2 hubs per wheel would be a good idea.

Cannot wait for this season to start...even moreso than before!

[Gregor]

Will these (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/versahubs.html) interface with the previous IFI wheel model?

[Jared Russell]

Do my eyes decieve me, or are CIMs mountable on either side of the ball shifter gearbox?

Your eyes deceive you. The bearings on either side of the housing have different ODs.

[Amanda Morrison]

I firmly believe this product line will be one of those innovations the community will wonder how they did without.

Kudos to the IFI team on their hard work. Given the players involved, I know the passion, effort, time, and dedication that must have gone into this project. This has the potential to change the face of STEM education and competitive robotics as we know it - and it will.

Amanda

[CalTran]

Gamechanger? (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/single-speed-single-reduction.html)

I posted in the Hints thread as well, but over on this side I'm seriously wondering why VEX felt the need to release a 3 CIM gearbox. It it because our team is too "traditional" in our use of CIM motors that I'm not seeing any application, provided we're referring to the general rules on motors from the past few years, where a team would need 3 CIMs through one gearbox?

[BrendanB]

Gamechanger? (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/single-speed-single-reduction.html)

I posted in the Hints thread as well, but over on this side I'm seriously wondering why VEX felt the need to release a 3 CIM gearbox. It it because our team is too "traditional" in our use of CIM motors that I'm not seeing any application, provided we're referring to the general rules on motors from the past few years, where a team would need 3 CIMs through one gearbox?

Who said the third motor has to be a CIM? Three motor gearboxes have been common in FRC especially in the past few years with teams using a 775 or 550 in place of a CIM motor.

[Brandon_L]

Gamechanger? (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/single-speed-single-reduction.html)

I posted in the Hints thread as well, but over on this side I'm seriously wondering why VEX felt the need to release a 3 CIM gearbox. It it because our team is too "traditional" in our use of CIM motors that I'm not seeing any application, provided we're referring to the general rules on motors from the past few years, where a team would need 3 CIMs through one gearbox?

You use two CIMs and another smaller (maybe FP?) through a planetary for the last motor, 2016esque drive. (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just an electronics guy.)

[Tom Line]

Gamechanger? (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/single-speed-single-reduction.html)

I posted in the Hints thread as well, but over on this side I'm seriously wondering why VEX felt the need to release a 3 CIM gearbox. It it because our team is too "traditional" in our use of CIM motors that I'm not seeing any application, provided we're referring to the general rules on motors from the past few years, where a team would need 3 CIMs through one gearbox?

A number of teams have run 3 motors per side in the past. Think 775 + cimulator for the 3rd "cim" on each side.

If you have extra weight and extra motors, no particular reason NOT too :D

[JB987]

222 is very excited to see someone finally producing Ball Lock transmissions! Something some of us 222 mentors have been dreaming of for years now! :D

We spend more than the asking price of IFI's whole transmission on gears alone just to build ours every year for the last eight years going on nine!

I see lots of nice products at amazing prices! We can't wait to check out and try out the Ball Lock shifters!

Some of us have been making our own for years:D Interested to see how these new ones hold up...

[Libby K]

I am so, SO impressed.
Can't wait to work with this stuff.
Mad props to IFI on this. :)

[MattC9]

The last time I was this happy I was first getting into FRC.

[Brandon_L]

The last time I was this happy I was first getting into FRC.

Amen

[Madison]

Having spent a bit of time playing around and looking at the different CAD models, I am now very impressed. These are a very well-designed set of components that work together in many combinations.

Excellent work.

[CalTran]

So in answer, yes, we're a bit traditional on drivetrain allotment

[sanddrag]

This is going to be a great FIRST season. The best thing in the new lineup is the 7075 gears.

What I wish they would offer though is the 7075 #25 hubbed sprockets with a smaller bore (7/16" or less).

We'll likely be making our own for 2013, but if we didn't (as in the past), we'd be going to AndyMark for them.

[dtengineering]

Well, well, well... I just happen to be needing a couple dozen CIMs and speed controllers for a non-FRC application.

Fortunately I don't need them until after kickoff... I've got a feeling VEX's shipping department is going to be a bit like Santa's workshop for the next few weeks.

IFI earned my respect a decade ago with their equipment and support. Then they came up with that whole awesome VEX thing. Now this... sign me up as a fanboy.

Jason

P.S. I love the other FRC vendors, too... but IFI has been there "forever" for me.

[Mark Sheridan]

Good thing my team is having a meeting this saturday to start ordering all the part we think we need for the build season. The timing could not be more perfect.

[Renee Becker-Blau]

This is fantastic! These are awesome changes that are going to make a huge impact on the designs of 2013 FRC robots.

We have a huge FRC workshop coming up this Saturday, we'll have to point this out to the teams.

[Siri]

This is fantastic. Amazing, amazing job.


If you haven't seen the video, watch it (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/video.html).

[ttldomination]

I had a couple of shocks as I was going through the list.

The first was the pricing. As a mentor who recently joined a different team, I'm trying to get my team to be more proactive in spending and investing in items to build our inventory. This new pricing will be much easier for other mentors/students to swallow.

The flexibility. At first, I saw that you had some basic gearboxes and wheels, and my thought was, "whoop-de-flippin-do", but then I saw all of the output shaft configurations and the flexibility of the VersaHubs. Amazing.

I don't know if it's "game changing" per say, but it's a new, fresh look at the game.

- Sunny G.

[waialua359]

I'm glad we got a vendor that does free shipping to Hawaii for all IFI products!:cool:
including pallets!;)

[JohnSchneider]

I think were most excited about having a supplier for hex shaft and bearings right down the road. It was getting bothersome ordering all of that online!

And the rest of the products arent bad either ;)

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Great job John and crew! It looks like you've put together some high quality offerings that look really sharp.

I'm really pumped to see all of the recent activity in the FRC sized robot hardware game. Having a bunch of cheap and reliable component options is going to do numbers for the growth and sustainability of this (and similar) programs.

[Tristan Lall]

Nice work with that product line. Very nice work.

IFI's experience with engineering for mass production appears to have resulted in a great feature set at an excellent price point. They've definitely shaken up the economics of FRC in a good way! (I'm very curious about the business model and the profit margin, though....)

It's going to be interesting to see AndyMark adapt to this: they've released some nice new components as well, but I can't help but conclude they've been grossly upstaged. AndyMark has the FIRSTChoice contract, but they're going to have to work on optimizing the details to catch up to IFI's latest offerings. And since it's too late for major part changes for 2013, will this force AndyMark to cut prices and reduce their 2013 earnings targets?

I hadn't recently thought to count the number of staff working for IFI with top-quality FRC experience—but they've got a dream team going there, for sure. AndyMark has expertise, but (I presume) doesn't have the financial flexibility to pay a horde of FRC experts to work on things they're passionate about for a year, and doesn't have the supply chain and in-house manufacturing capability to turn out a completely new product line in that time.

On a wholly speculative note, I wonder what kind of market pressure it would take for AndyMark (a smallish business) to conclude that if you can't beat them, join them?

As for BaneBots, given IFI's new planetaries, they're done for. There is a 0% chance that I'd waste my time dealing with BaneBots' frequently unreliable gearheads, or their hit-and-miss service, when IFI—full of people I know and trust—is offering a substitute at a comparable price, with the promise ("coming soon") of better documentation and reasonable prospects for on-time delivery. BaneBots can't be making much profit on their low-end can motors, and unless they have a huge surprise for us, that's essentially all they'll be selling to FRC teams this year—I doubt they'll be back in 2014.

It seems strange to think of FRC as a real, functioning market, but IFI's newfound strength is certainly going to make 2013 an interesting year from an economic point of view.

One more thing to consider: there's the prospect of a new control system platform in the future, and I don't doubt that IFI wants to supply it. Will they be in a position of such strength in a year's time that they'll have cornered the market on both controls and mechanical hardware in FRC? Wouldn't that be a satisfying resolution to their ouster from FVC and the loss of the FRC control system contract a few years ago?

[Gdeaver]

Ball shifts are cool. No planetary above 1: 100, we still need Banebots. The #25 spocket's look nice. More choices are all ways nice.

[Brian Selle]

Elegant, functional designs, incredible prices. Going to have IFI on speed dial.

[AlexH]

can anyone tell me why ifi/vexpro discontinued the non FIRST legal 883/885 esc's?

[Paul Copioli]

Ball shifts are cool. No planetary above 1: 100, we still need Banebots. The #25 spocket's look nice. More choices are all ways nice.

The versaplanetary gear ratio possibilities are almost endless. The ring gear stages can be stacked indefinitely if you can find long enough assembly screws. We decided to supply only the hardware for up to 2 stages, but I had a 3 stage 250:1 in my hand today.

We will be publishing a recommended usage chart for motor and gearbox configurations in the coming weeks. We want to make sure our users know the limits of high ratio gearboxes.

AlexH,

They are not discontinued. They are an exclusive product for our reseller, robot marketplace. You can get them there.


Paul

[mlantry]

not to seem like an idiot but does this shift between a low and high gear. because looking at the cad model i can't see how. Also how does ball shifting/braking work. thank

[Donut]

IFI has done an awesome job here. Thankfully these came out just in time as we are discussing part options and what to order with the kit funds today. The discussion will be much more interesting now!

[Travis Hoffman]

Nice work with that product line. Very nice work.

IFI's experience with engineering for mass production appears to have resulted in a great feature set at an excellent price point. They've definitely shaken up the economics of FRC in a good way! (I'm very curious about the business model and the profit margin, though....)

Can someone from IFI please verify where the components of the major new products were produced - especially the mechanical hardware?

I believe AndyMark uses quite a few U.S. suppliers for the components of their flagship mechanical hardware. Whether borne out of necessity or an intentional desire to promote American-made content, it is a partnership I can appreciate.

I am also not opposed at all to purchasing products with a higher percentage of foreign-sourced content if the quality is there (and it seems like it should be there with the new VEXpro stuff - looking forward to trying out the VersaPlanetaries). I'm sure many teams will find the low costs very attractive.

Before I would personally consider any of the new VEXpro drivetrain products for competition bot usage, I would like to see the new gearboxes and VersaWheel/Hub system used and abused under extended competition conditions (i.e. let other teams be the guinea pigs for one season and report their experiences with the products :D).




It's going to be interesting to see AndyMark adapt to this: they've released some nice new components as well, but I can't help but conclude they've been grossly upstaged. AndyMark has the FIRSTChoice contract, but they're going to have to work on optimizing the details to catch up to IFI's latest offerings. And since it's too late for major part changes for 2013, will this force AndyMark to cut prices and reduce their 2013 earnings targets?

I look forward to seeing how Andy and Co. positively respond to this new competitive challenge. Given how hard they've worked in fairly short order to build their company up from two guys with an idea to the outstanding FRC supplier they are today, I have every confidence they will do so, to their customers' benefit.


I hadn't recently thought to count the number of staff working for IFI with top-quality FRC experience—but they've got a dream team going there, for sure. AndyMark has expertise, but (I presume) doesn't have the financial flexibility to pay a horde of FRC experts to work on things they're passionate about for a year, and doesn't have the supply chain and in-house manufacturing capability to turn out a completely new product line in that time.


The team assembled at IFI is impressive, and it knows how to leverage IFI's ample resources in an efficient manner. However, I also appreciate the "grassroots" efforts of the folks at AndyMark who started out small (and still are? I wonder how many employees they staff even today) and who assumed great risk in pioneering the introduction of affordable off the shelf mechanical components, opening up a new world to teams who previously had no way to fabricate such things themselves. AndyMark achieving what they do with the resources they have at their disposal is a testament to their work ethic and their dedication to the FRC community. These are qualities that will serve them well in responding to this new marketplace challenge.


On a wholly speculative note, I wonder what kind of market pressure it would take for AndyMark (a smallish business) to conclude that if you can't beat them, join them?


That sounds somewhat dubious, like a small business dealing with the new Walmart in town. Can you elaborate further on what you mean by "join them"?



As for BaneBots, given IFI's new planetaries, they're done for. There is a 0% chance that I'd waste my time dealing with BaneBots' frequently unreliable gearheads, or their hit-and-miss service, when IFI—full of people I know and trust—is offering a substitute at a comparable price, with the promise ("coming soon") of better documentation and reasonable prospects for on-time delivery. BaneBots can't be making much profit on their low-end can motors, and unless they have a huge surprise for us, that's essentially all they'll be selling to FRC teams this year—I doubt they'll be back in 2014.


Some have had more success with their products than others. I am thankful for what they've done with their P60 and P80 products over the years, but it is great to see a functional equivalent enter the marketplace to drive improvements in designs and customer service. I hope Banebots uses the challenge to improve on the weaknesses many have lamented in the past. However, if they ultimately are "done", I thank them for providing a low-cost product no one else did at the time - one that has been very kind to my team over the years.


It seems strange to think of FRC as a real, functioning market, but IFI's newfound strength is certainly going to make 2013 an interesting year from an economic point of view.

One more thing to consider: there's the prospect of a new control system platform in the future, and I don't doubt that IFI wants to supply it. Will they be in a position of such strength in a year's time that they'll have cornered the market on both controls and mechanical hardware in FRC? Wouldn't that be a satisfying resolution to their ouster from FVC and the loss of the FRC control system contract a few years ago?

Is "cornering the market" and becoming an FRC "mega-supplier" IFI's goal? If that is "satisfying" to the IFI folks, that's one thing, but I don't work for them. My question is, would such a scenario be the one most beneficial for FRC teams if that were ever to happen?

[ttldomination]

It's going to be interesting to see AndyMark adapt to this: they've released some nice new components as well, but I can't help but conclude they've been grossly upstaged. AndyMark has the FIRSTChoice contract, but they're going to have to work on optimizing the details to catch up to IFI's latest offerings. And since it's too late for major part changes for 2013, will this force AndyMark to cut prices and reduce their 2013 earnings targets?

As for BaneBots, given IFI's new planetaries, they're done for. There is a 0% chance that I'd waste my time dealing with BaneBots' frequently unreliable gearheads, or their hit-and-miss service, when IFI—full of people I know and trust—is offering a substitute at a comparable price, with the promise ("coming soon") of better documentation and reasonable prospects for on-time delivery. BaneBots can't be making much profit on their low-end can motors, and unless they have a huge surprise for us, that's essentially all they'll be selling to FRC teams this year—I doubt they'll be back in 2014.

I think we before we start counting out these companies, we must remember that a number of items from the KOP will come from AM and Banebots. Now, while for teams that don't keep up with the inner happenings of FIRST, this doesn't mean much, but for teams that don't keep up will be inclined to simply go off the KOP's recommendations of where to get more product.

not to seem like an idiot but does this shift between a low and high gear. because looking at the cad model i can't see how. Also how does ball shifting/braking work. thank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7ng4OWilUY's a small video detailing just the basic core of the transmission. It isn't very good, but it gets the main idea across.

- Sunny G.

[MichaelBick]

The transmission does not lock. The kind of transmission is called a Ball Lock Transmission.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Outstanding work, IFI! I haven't been this excited about spending money in a LONG time. This opens up many new possibilities for many teams.

Question: What kind of load capacities do the various wheels have (especially the Versawheels and Mecanum wheels)?

Thanks!

Kev

[Brandon Holley]

The transmission does not lock. The kind of transmission is called a Ball Lock Transmission.

Courtesy of our friends on FRC222: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7ng4OWilUY

-Brando

[Jared Russell]

Just ordered a couple of things to play with. Any idea when you expect the new stuff to start shipping?

[IndySam]

Just the great selection of gears alone is a major addition to a designers toolkit. 84t 1/2" hex!

BTW anyone notice the part numbers start with 217 :)

[Jim Meyer]

I think you guys really hit this one out of the park. Great looking products at prices that are hard to believe.

I really like the VersaHub. This will make our setup so much simpler.

The proof will be in how the products hold up during the season, but if they prove to be reliable, this really raises the bar. I'm ready to jump in with both feet and find out.

[JB987]

Just curious...how many teams besides 987 were making and using their own ball lock transmissions. It's obvious there will be a whole lot more being used out there now!

[MichaelBick]

Just curious...how many teams besides 987 were making and using their own ball lock transmissions. It's obvious there will be a whole lot more being used out there now!

Currently not many. It is much harder to fabricate, especially because most of the teams that build custom transmissions use COTS parts from andymark. However, before the invention of andymark, there were many other teams that used call lock transmissions.

[Jared Russell]

Just curious...how many teams besides 987 were making and using their own ball lock transmissions. It's obvious there will be a whole lot more being used out there now!

222 is the only other one that I know of. They have been doing it for a number of years as well (at least as far back as 2004 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/19536)).

[Akash Rastogi]

The versaplanetary gear ratio possibilities are almost endless. The ring gear stages can be stacked indefinitely if you can find long enough assembly screws. We decided to supply only the hardware for up to 2 stages, but I had a 3 stage 250:1 in my hand today.

We will be publishing a recommended usage chart for motor and gearbox configurations in the coming weeks. We want to make sure our users know the limits of high ratio gearboxes.

AlexH,

They are not discontinued. They are an exclusive product for our reseller, robot marketplace. You can get them there.


Paul

This will be extremely useful for a novice like me. Thank you guys for putting so much effort into this product line.

[JB987]

It will be very interesting to see if IFI can keep up with demand. Often times, initial roll out volume of new products is done in a conservative manner in order to test demand level before production is ramped up. No business wants to get stuck with 1000's of unsold "widgets"...which I know won't happen in this case. I am curious what the product pipeline duration is for stock replacement of sold items like the ball shifter.

[apalrd]

These gearboxes look really really really really nice.

I think I'll be spreadsheeting and CAD'ing a lot soon (after finals of course).


Also, it appears that the VEXpro ARM9's link (http://www.vexrobotics.com/217-2180.html) is now gone from the VEXpro section of the site, and isn't liked to from anywhere else on the main site.

Still very impressed with the weight. Very impressed.

[Akash Rastogi]

It will be very interesting to see if IFI can keep up with demand. Often times, initial roll out volume of new products is done in a conservative manner in order to test demand level before production is ramped up. No business wants to get stuck with 1000's of unsold "widgets"...which I know won't happen in this case. I am curious what the product pipeline duration is for stock replacement of sold items like the ball shifter.

I asked this and was told they will have a very large inventory.

[CalTran]

There any sort of ETA on parts besides "Ships before Kickoff"? Because if it can ship soon then we might just buy some stuff from VEXPro.

[Richard Wallace]

It will be very interesting to see if IFI can keep up with demand.I asked this and was told they will have a very large inventory.I expect VexPro will be delivering on their promises. IFI has not let me down yet and I don't think Paul will allow that trend to change now. He is probably kicking rear-ends to keep things on schedule, even as we discuss this.

I ordered a pile of stuff this morning that Ships Before Kickoff.

[Andrew Remmers]

Officailly excited now.

I can not wait to play with these.

Kudos IFI.

- Andrew

[CalTran]

I ordered a pile of stuff this morning that Ships Before Kickoff.

Is that the ETA it gave on when they'll arrive? If so then that means we'll have to buy some parts from AndyMark.

[Lil' Lavery]

And I had just finished putting together my pre-season orders. Back to the drawing board. :rolleyes:

[Nemo]

I'm stunned at how good this stuff looks and how good the prices are.

While this puts price pressure on AndyMark, they will figure out how to thrive along with another big fish. AndyMark still has some important competitive advantages. And some great values, like this one (http://www.andymark.com/446-p/am-2202.htm).

[JVN]

I want to thank everyone for their very kind words, and excitement regarding this launch. Everyone here at IFI is extremely proud of this new line, and the work our team has put into it.

Please bear with us as we work to answer your questions and get more information out there about these new items.

Believe it or not... launching 120+ new items is an iterative process. :)

If you have anything you'd like to know, please post in this thread or send an email to support@vexrobotics.com.

-John

[Karthik]

All products are available to be ordered now. Orders received before December 21st in the US and the 14th in Canada are guaranteed to ship before kickoff.


The different time period for Canada is a one time situation, to ensure that we're able to move our bulk shipment of inventory across the border in time. After kickoff, VEXpro orders placed in Canada before 3:00 pm eastern, will typically ship same day. If you're in Ontario, this usually means you'll be getting your products the day after you order. For teams local to the GTA, we offer same day pickup service at our office between 9:00 and 4:30 pm, all for a low flat rate of $5.00. We'll also have some products on display so you can take a look at them in person.

[Ravage457]

Wow the VEXpro product line looks awesome, cant wait to get my hands on the VEXpro Ball Shifters. Im very intrested on the new transmissions, The cost is awesome and so is the saved weight

[JesseK]

Can't wait to design with them, but tbh we're a bit too cynical on my team to throw everything we've done already away and start with 100% new products across the board. I dunno how a ball-lock transmission even works, for example. (Admittedly, I haven't explored everything on the site yet).

I love the alternative planetary gearboxes. If only someone would make a FRC-legal motor to go along with them...

[JVN]

AWESOME work!

Some questions on the ball-lock 3-stage: how do you envision mounting this? From the CAD it looks like there aren't any remaining holes for face mounting, and the flange on the bottom looks like it will flex.

EDIT: Also, any COF data on the new wheels/tread?

EDIT 2: What is the ratio between the output shaft and the encoder shaft in all three configurations? Arg! So many questions :)

EDIT 3: (Until I'm directed elsewhere, I'm just going to dump my questions here) Are the broaches on the versahubs all aligned relative to the bolt circle identically? For a 2" wide wheel, it looks like 2 hubs per wheel would be a good idea.

Cannot wait for this season to start...even moreso than before!

Hi Jared,
1. You can mount in a few different ways. The simplest way is to attach the (included) mounting angle to the 3rd-stage face plate using two of its mounting screws. Alternately, one could face-mount this transmission using those same screws. I personally expect many teams will eliminate the output plate entirely, and just integrate that pattern into their drive train. We spent a lot of time talking about how to mount our gearboxes, and believe we've come up with a very versatile solution which should serve inexperienced teams, and also veterans. Our intent is to provide more in-application examples as we build towards kickoff.

2. We will post full CoF data for all wheels and tread in the coming weeks. Our team is redoing all our testing with the final production wheels (using the tilt-test) to ensure we provide the right data to our customers. Everything is in the ranges you'd expect, we know traction is important...

3. On the ball shifter: the encoders turn at 3x the speed of the output shaft using our stock (included) mounting method. On the single-speed, double-reduction the encoders spin at the same speed as the output shaft.

4. Unfortunately no, the VersaKey pattern is not consistently aligned with the hex broaches. Though this was our original intent, it proved cost-prohibitive to achieve.

-John

[JVN]

Question: What kind of load capacities do the various wheels have (especially the Versawheels and Mecanum wheels)?
v

Hi Kevin,
It is tough to provide a load capacity on something like a wheel. I can tell you that these were designed with FRC applications in mind. They're built to be tough, and survive even the worst of what FRC teams will throw at them.

They're not built to be used as an all-terrain wheel-chair or something... they might work for that, but that isn't their designed usage.

Does that kind of answer your question? Is there a specific value you're interested in?

-John

[Bob Steele]

John
i was going to order some Jaguars and had them in my cart but when I signed in they were gone and I can't find them on the site..
What happened? Can I still order these before Kickoff?
thanks

[Taylor]

It strikes me that the pictures on the vexpro site are (very nice) CAD renderings. What testing, destructive or non, has been done on the physical products? What loads can they support?
I realize Paul alluded that data for the gearboxes will be forthcoming; what about the wheels?

Edit: I missed Kevin's post and just saw JVN's response. So the answer is "it'll be good enough, don't worry about it" ?

[Mk.32]

Hi Kevin,
It is tough to provide a load capacity on something like this. I can tell you that these were designed with FRC applications in mind. They're built to be tough, and survive even the worst of what FRC teams will throw at them.

They're not built to be used as an all-terrain wheel-chair or something... they might work for that, but that isn't their designed usage.

Does that kind of answer your question? Is there a specific value you're interested in?

-John

Personally I would like to know the toque ratings for the VersaPlanetary gearboxes, for example banebots rates the p60s at 35 ft-lb.

Looks like some great products, can't wait to see how they work out in the field.

[JVN]

Edit: I missed Kevin's post and just saw JVN's response. So the answer is "it'll be good enough, don't worry about it" ?

A more accurate summary might be: "Wheel 'rating' is a difficult thing to quantify (in my mind, at least) what numbers would you like to know?"

More easy to quantify numbers (like VersaPlanetary torque ratings and usage recommendations) will be made available before kickoff.

-John

[Ricky Q.]

John
i was going to order some Jaguars and had them in my cart but when I signed in they were gone and I can't find them on the site..
What happened? Can I still order these before Kickoff?
thanks

Hi Bob,

You should be able to find the Jaguars on the Motors & Controllers page - http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motor-controllers

Their direct page is: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motor-controllers/217-3367.html

These are available for pre-order right now and will Ship Before Kickoff.

If you have further issues please let us know.

Thanks,
Ricky

[AdamHeard]

It'd be really awesome to get a rough layout drawing in .pdf in each part, similar to what AndyMark and other vendors do. It's a pain to download the .step to check a basic dimension.

I like to think we have one of the best custom 2-speed shifter designs, but we're choosing to put that on the shelf and run the ball shifter most likely. Time is so valuable, and for that price it's awesome.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Vex,

After looking at the Ball Shifter STEP file, it looks like the output shaft can be easily exchanged with any custom length 1/2" Hex shaft. However, I can not tell how the 1/2" Hex Output Shaft is retained in the assembly.

Can you please explain how it is retained or what I am missing?

Thanks and I love the subtle features of the products.
-Clinton-

PS. Do the Gears have the sizes laser engraved on each part, similar to the Sprockets?

[ttldomination]

And I had just finished putting together my pre-season orders. Back to the drawing board. :rolleyes:

I know that feel.

- Sunny G.

[Taylor]

A more accurate summary might be: "Wheel 'rating' is a difficult thing to quantify (in my mind, at least) what numbers would you like to know?"

More easy to quantify numbers (like VersaPlanetary torque ratings and usage recommendations) will be made available before kickoff.

-John

I think load capacity and CoF data would be reasonable for FRC applications.
I'm confused why they would be hard to quantify - other wheel manufacturers I've researched readily display that data.

[AdamHeard]

I think load capacity and CoF data would be good to know for FRC applications.
I'm confused why they would be hard to quantify - other wheel manufacturers I've researched readily display that data.

The wheels are probably a more homogeneous design, solid web, no spokes, etc...

Also, they probably are pulling their rating from testing, not from calculations. I'd wager most ratings you see are very conservatively low as well.

Even if you pull a true strength from testing this rating also has to factor in the uninformed user, if a wheel is rated to hold 100 lbs and that's what it sees when the robot is sitting on it, it will break on any sort of impact or drop due to that increased loading. I bet when you buy a colson wheel rated for 100 lbs, it's probably capable of handling spikes to 500+ lbs.

[jsasaki]

The more I revisit the VexPro website the more I'm impressed. Your prices just seem unreal compared to other sources. Just bearing, sprockets and gears alone cost almost half the price...... 1/2" hex stock is only $8 :ahh: You guys really set the bar high on this one!!! :D

[Lil' Lavery]

Agreed with Adam's .pdf request.

Any plans on having 1/2" round (keyed) output shafts on any of the gearboxes in the future? Many teams already have plenty of stock material for 1/2" keyed shaft, so not having to purchase a bunch of hex broached material would be preferable.

Any plans for Versa wheels in sizes other than 4"?

As for "wheel ratings," what about the following?
How much force does it take to separate the tread from the versa wheel rim?
How much shear force can the spokes in each wheel handle before failing?

[Ricky Q.]

All products being available includes usage of the PDV, right?(I ask here instead of looking it up primarily because I didn't get the chance to look while the site was up)

Yes, the PDV Bundle with details on the VEX/IFI PDV for 2013 is active here: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/all/pdv-group.html

PDV items will begin shipping next week, but if you add VEXpro items to your order that have extended lead time the order will be held until it is all available.

Can someone from IFI please verify where the components of the major new products were produced - especially the mechanical hardware?

While many of the component parts are sourced from China, VEXpro products are designed, assembled and tested in the USA.

The Teflon infused ceramic coating for VEXpro Gears is applied in the USA.

The debate surrounding globalized manufacturing aside; IFI is a small-town company started by two former FRC mentors (Tony Norman & Bob Mimlitch) which now employs over 130 people here in Greenville, TX.

Is "cornering the market" and becoming an FRC "mega-supplier" IFI's goal? If that is "satisfying" to the IFI folks, that's one thing, but I don't work for them. My question is, would such a scenario be the one most beneficial for FRC teams if that were ever to happen?

As Tony, Bob and others mentioned in the video – we would not have taken on the VEXpro project without ensuring that we could provide affordable, quality, affordable options to the entire FRC Community.

IFI has been a proud supporter of FRC for more than 14 years as an official supplier and team sponsor – our main goal has been and always will be to support the teams.

Any idea when you expect the new stuff to start shipping?

There any sort of ETA on parts besides "Ships before Kickoff"? Because if it can ship soon then we might just buy some stuff from VEXPro.

Victors and Jaguars will start shipping next week.

All other items will ship as soon as they are available. We are receiving stock almost everyday and going through our final assembly, testing and logistics processes as quickly as we can.

We will ship all orders complete, so if there is an item on your order that is not available yet it will be held until we can ship complete. VEX and VEXpro Items can be ordered on the same order, but we recommend keeping them separate if you need your VEX items quickly.

As mentioned above, orders received before December 21st in the US and the 14th in Canada are guaranteed to ship before kickoff. As we approach the Holidays, we will watch Shipping Addresses carefully and make sure we are not shipping out an order to a school that will be closed.

As a note, VEX and IFI will be closed from December 25-January 1, Web orders can still be placed, but any POs placed will not be processed until we reopen.

After the New Year, teams can expect all VEXpro Products to be marked In Stock and fall under standard VEX/IFI shipping policies, where we ship the same day on In Stock products for orders received before 3pm Central time. Orders ship via your selected UPS method from Greenville, TX.

[JVN]

I think load capacity and CoF data would be reasonable for FRC applications.
I'm confused why they would be hard to quantify - other wheel manufacturers I've researched readily display that data.

CoF data -- for sure, it is on the way pending testing of the final production run. (I don't want to post any of our data from engineering samples or prototypes).

Load capacity-- We will find that number for you.
I'm sorry for confusing the issue. Of course maximum standard loading is easy to quantify. However, I've never seen a wheel fail due to standard loading, the only wheel failures I've ever seen result from impact loading (smashing a wheel off a bump or something). Those are tests we are also doing, which are significantly harder to quantify in a meaningful way.

-John

[Nuttyman54]

I'm really liking this ball shifter! To answer JB987's question, I know 114 made a ball lock in 06, but they're pretty rare general due to the machining tolerances required to work efficiently. I'm really curious to see how these perform, 971 is eyeing them to further compact out transmission.

John, are there any plans to provide an adapter for gates belt pulleys to the versahub system? I could see that being a very popular addition.

[JVN]

Vex,

After looking at the Ball Shifter STEP file, it looks like the output shaft can be easily exchanged with any custom length 1/2" Hex shaft. However, I can not tell how the 1/2" Hex Output Shaft is retained in the assembly.

Can you please explain how it is retained or what I am missing?

Thanks and I love the subtle features of the products.
-Clinton-

PS. Do the Gears have the sizes laser engraved on each part, similar to the Sprockets?

Hi Clinton,
1. The 1/2" Hex Output shaft is a press-fit into the larger part of the ball shaft (217-2790-003). It isn't "easily exchanged" for any other length of Hex, but this might be possible for more advanced users (I haven't personally tried it, so I don't want to be misrepresent how easy it is).

2. No, the gears do not have the sizes etched into them.

-John

[gyroscopeRaptor]

All the part numbers start with 217. Nice Easter egg Paul. The jag number is 217-33-67, and the 393 motor is 2177. Looking in the archives for 3633...

[Bob Steele]

Hi Bob,

You should be able to find the Jaguars on the Motors & Controllers page - http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motor-controllers

Their direct page is: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/motor-controllers/217-3367.html

These are available for pre-order right now and will Ship Before Kickoff.

If you have further issues please let us know.

Thanks,
Ricky

I am sorry Ricky but when I click on the direct page I get a 404 page not found and when I click on the motors and controllers section the Jaguar is not there... what could I be doing wrong?

thanks I really would like to get some jags ordered...

R

[Allison]

I am interested in the weight of the Ball shifter in it's different configurations. The website listed the weight at 2.5 lbs. Is that the 2 stage version with the mounting bracket? How much does it weigh when you add the third stage?

Thanks

Allison

[Lil' Lavery]

I am sorry Ricky but when I click on the direct page I get a 404 page not found and when I click on the motors and controllers section the Jaguar is not there... what could I be doing wrong?

thanks I really would like to get some jags ordered...

R

Both links work for me.

[BigJ]

Try clearing your cache in your web browser's options, Bob, the old (not working) state of the page might be saved to facilitate faster loading. :p

[Ricky Q.]

I am sorry Ricky but when I click on the direct page I get a 404 page not found and when I click on the motors and controllers section the Jaguar is not there... what could I be doing wrong?

thanks I really would like to get some jags ordered...

R

Bob,

I sent you a PM. My inkling is that your Country Selector at the top right of the site is not on the US.

Ricky

[Bob Steele]

Bob,

I sent you a PM. My inkling is that your Country Selector at the top right of the site is not on the US.

Ricky

Got your PM... It must have been a different issue than the Country selector..or the Cache
It only messed with me when I was logged in to my VEX account. When I logged off it worked fine.

Now all is right...even when logged in... after the fix you applied...
thanks for helping..

R

[Jared Russell]

How are wedgetop and roughtop designed to be attached to the traction wheels? Drill some through holes and use rivets?

EDIT: BTW, I noticed that product 217-2712 was not listed in the "Specifications" section of this page: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gears/vexpro-gears.html

[skimoose]

I am interested in the weight of the Ball shifter in it's different configurations. The website listed the weight at 2.5 lbs. Is that the 2 stage version with the mounting bracket? How much does it weigh when you add the third stage?

Thanks

Allison

If you check the bottom of the page below the CAD files you can note that the two stage package is 2.50 lbs., and the three stage gearbox is 3.05 lbs.

JVN can clarify, but I would assume those weights are fully dressed with the mounting bracket and the pneumatic cylinder.

Congratulations to everyone at IFI, the entire product line is simply amazing, I already have a long shopping list. Christmas came early this year!

The VEXpro line may just cause more traffic here on CD, than a 2013 FRC game hint! :yikes:

[JVN]

Interesting phenomenon we're seeing...
We've had a few VEXpro Ball Shifter sales, and most of these orders include a pneumatic pancake cylinder, and encoder mounts.

These are included.
Every ball shifter includes the pneumatic cylinder, all the hardware to mount it, and all the hardware for encoder mounting.

I've asked out web-team to try to be more clear on the product page.

-John

[AdamHeard]

Interesting phenomenon we're seeing...
We've had a few VEXpro Ball Shifter sales, and most of these orders include a pneumatic pancake cylinder, and encoder mounts.

These are included.
Every ball shifter includes the pneumatic cylinder, all the hardware to mount it, and all the hardware for encoder mounting.

I've asked out web-team to try to be more clear on the product page.

-John

I've thoroughly read all the product pages along with a few other team members, and for the items like the ballshifters, it is a bit confusing during the first read. A lot of the items could be a bit more clearly displayed probably. If myself and other experienced members need a double take to figure out what's going on, I'm sure the casual team will be confused by the pages.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Can you post the dimensions of the VersaHub? Definitely looks like something we'll be using in the near future.

[David Doerr]

I've thoroughly read all the product pages along with a few other team members, and for the items like the ballshifters, it is a bit confusing during the first read...

I agree. A close read reveals that the pneumatic and encoder hardware kits are included with the shifter. Those items should probably have "(included with the base kit)" or something similar added to the description.

I hope if you order the optional gear kit along with the 3-stage shifter you get both the 60:24 and 64:20 gear sets - because that's what I did and that's what I wanted...

[DampRobot]

JVN, can you comment on the material of the Ball Shifter casing? I assume it is some sort of plastic. I've had a lot of trouble with polycarb sideplates making motors overheat in drive gearboxes in the past. Have you tested for this? Also, any plan to sell aluminium versions of the casing (as side plates with spacers)?

[JVN]

JVN, can you comment on the material of the Ball Shifter casing? I assume it is some sort of plastic. I've had a lot of trouble with polycarb sideplates making motors overheat in drive gearboxes in the past. Have you tested for this? Also, any plan to sell aluminium versions of the casing (as side plates with spacers)?

The Ball Shifter casing is Glass-Filled Nylon. I've never heard of motors overheating as you've described. We are not planning to sell an aluminum version, or a side-plate + spacer version -- though the design does lend itself to teams being able to make their own.

-John

[DampRobot]

The Ball Shifter casing is Glass-Filled Nylon. I've never heard of motors overheating as you've described. We are not planning to sell an aluminum version, or a side-plate + spacer version -- though the design does lend itself to teams being able to make their own.

-John

Funny, we've often had problems with Fischer Prices overheating in the drive, and many teams use fans on their practice robots to keep their CIMs from overheating (even with aluminium side plates). A little surprising, but interesting nonetheless.

[scottandme]

Are the parts lists for the 2 and 3 stage ball shifters mixed up?

The 2 stage lists "Ball Shifter Long Output Shaft Assembly with 60t and 44t Ball Shifter Gears"

The 3 stage lists "Ball Shifter Short Output Shaft Assembly with 60t and 44t Ball Shifter Gears"

The images (and CAD) show the 2 stage with a shorter output shaft than the 3 stage, which I assume is correct.

Any ideas for using the 3-stage shifter for a WCD/direct driven center wheel? The lower housing hex standoffs look like they will interfere with putting a 16T #25 sprocket on the drive axle to power the front/rear wheels. Turning the gearbox sideways would work, but that eats up >2" of ground clearance, meaning at least 6" wheels would be required.

[MichaelBick]

Are the parts lists for the 2 and 3 stage ball shifters mixed up?

The 2 stage lists "Ball Shifter Long Output Shaft Assembly with 60t and 44t Ball Shifter Gears"

The 3 stage lists "Ball Shifter Short Output Shaft Assembly with 60t and 44t Ball Shifter Gears"

The images (and CAD) show the 2 stage with a shorter output shaft than the 3 stage, which I assume is correct.

Any ideas for using the 3-stage shifter for a WCD/direct driven center wheel? The lower housing hex standoffs look like they will interfere with putting a 16T #25 sprocket on the drive axle to power the front/rear wheels. Turning the gearbox sideways would work, but that eats up >2" of ground clearance, meaning at least 6" wheels would be required.

As far as I've seen, to get a reasonably speedy robot, you need to use 6" wheels anyways. The ball shifter ratios really aren't built for direct driving 4" wheels. That said, the 3rd stage is really versatile. There are a a lot more options that you can get by switching out the 2 default 3rd stage gears ratios for different gears.

[David Doerr]

Any ideas for using the 3-stage shifter for a WCD/direct driven center wheel? The lower housing hex standoffs look like they will interfere with putting a 16T #25 sprocket on the drive axle to power the front/rear wheels. Turning the gearbox sideways would work, but that eats up >2" of ground clearance, meaning at least 6" wheels would be required.

How about turning the gearbox upside-down so the CIMs are on the bottom?

[David Doerr]

As far as I've seen, to get a reasonably speedy robot, you need to use 6" wheels anyways. The ball shifter ratios really aren't built for direct driving 4" wheels.

What ratio would you want to have in order to drive 4" wheels?

[MichaelBick]

What ratio would you want to have in order to drive 4" wheels?

IIRC a 30T vex gear and a custom 54T gear make a nice 15-16 FPS(assuming no friction).

[AlecMataloni]

For anyone interested, a friend of mine made a consolidated zip folder with STEP files for every available vexpro product that was just released.

He's hosting it on his google drive: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx6dgMkncv-3QkJnc0FyZTdQSlE/edit

Beware: Google Drive has a download cap, so if someone were to mirror this, that would be appreciated.

[Joe G.]

What ratio would you want to have in order to drive 4" wheels?

Or, the new VEXpro 34t and 50t will cover the right C-C distance, and provide a theoretical 16.17 fps in high gear.

[scottandme]

How about turning the gearbox upside-down so the CIMs are on the bottom?

That's the orientation I was looking at.

With 5" wheels, the 60:24 3rd stage would give you speeds of 5.5 ft/s and 12.6 ft/s (probably ~4.5 and ~10.2 after accounting for 80% of theoretical). Current draw would be right under 40A at stall in low gear, which is ideal. Would have been near perfect for the 2012 game.

Playing with making aluminum plates to replace the housing, will be heavier but at least mounting will be easier.

[David Doerr]

That's the orientation I was looking at.

Now I see what you mean. None of the hex standoffs seem positioned optimally for driving the front/rear wheels on a WCD.

[dcarr]

Beware: Google Drive has a download cap, so if someone were to mirror this, that would be appreciated.

http://www.team3309.org/VexPRO_CAD.zip

[AlecMataloni]

http://www.team3309.org/VexPRO_CAD.zip

Thank you!

[Walter Deitzler]

Are going to be any assembly instruction videos (attaching the wheel to the hub, hub to sprocket) going up by any chance? I feel like it might be helpful to some teams decided whether or not to go with these or not, knowing how to put them together is great.

Overall, this is a GREAT thing, and I would like to thank IFI for it.

(I am almost happy that all of my CAD on the school computers went down, now I can redesign everything using these over winter break)

[ParkerF]

Are going to be any assembly instruction videos (attaching the wheel to the hub, hub to sprocket) going up by any chance? I feel like it might be helpful to some teams decided whether or not to go with these or not, knowing how to put them together is great.

Overall, this is a GREAT thing, and I would like to thank IFI for it.

(I am almost happy that all of my CAD on the school computers went down, now I can redesign everything using these over winter break)

The VersaHub (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/versahubs.htm) page has really good views of how everything works. The hub protrusions literally just fall into the matching recesses and you slap some bolts into it. It really is that easy.

[timytamy]

Curious about what kind of lead time/cut off you will have for international orders. Will you be able to ship to Aus before kickoff? If so when is the cut off date.

[Ricky Q.]

I am interested in the weight of the Ball shifter in it's different configurations. The website listed the weight at 2.5 lbs. Is that the 2 stage version with the mounting bracket? How much does it weigh when you add the third stage?

Thanks

Allison

The 2-Stage and 3-Stage weights listed on the product page are with everything but motors, including the pneumatic cylinder.

[Ricky Q.]

I hope if you order the optional gear kit along with the 3-stage shifter you get both the 60:24 and 64:20 gear sets - because that's what I did and that's what I wanted...

Yes, you will be getting both gear sets.

[Brandon Holley]

Can one of you comment on how much assembly is required for the ball shifter upon receipt of it?

-Brando

[ttldomination]

How are wedgetop and roughtop designed to be attached to the traction wheels? Drill some through holes and use rivets?

EDIT: BTW, I noticed that product 217-2712 was not listed in the "Specifications" section of this page: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gears/vexpro-gears.html

Bumping this question. I know many teams opt to use their own nitrile tread, whether its for functionality or aesthetics.

- Sunny G.

[Dave Campbell]

THANKS for this awesome resource! I have tears of joy in my eyes....
Students - let this be a lesson in business applications of engineering - Both VEX (IFI) and AndyMark are fantastic companies serving an exploding market. Your challenge is to figure out what is next and build your own excellent company.

[Paul Copioli]

Can one of you comment on how much assembly is required for the ball shifter upon receipt of it?


Brandon,

The main ball shift shaft, which contains the two ball shift gears, shift engagement balls, retaining ring, and shifting axle is all preassembled. The customer has to assemble the cluster shaft and two gears on the cluster shaft, insert the ball shift shaft with 2 bearings, and assemble the housings and motors. Additionally, the user has to assemble the 2 standoffs for the shifer and the pneumatic cylinder. If the user wants to use encoders, then that hardware must be assembled too.

The user does not have to deal with the ball shift mechanism as that will be pre-assembled.

Paul

[sdcantrell56]

Paul,

Would it be possible to buy just the shifter shaft and all the associated hardware without the two gears? We would love to do the ball shifting but would prefer different gear ratios and would just machine our own gears most likely from your other gear options.

[pfreivald]

I have a simple question, only necessary because our computer lab is closed and I don't have any CAD software on my classroom PC... (Not for lack of trying, mind...):

How wide are the mecanum wheels with/without hubs on them? We're in the process of upgrading our octocanum drive platform and are wondering how much redesign would be necessary for these wheels/hubs.

Thanks!

Patrick

[JVN]

I have a simple question, only necessary because our computer lab is closed and I don't have any CAD software on my classroom PC... (Not for lack of trying, mind...):

How wide are the mecanum wheels with/without hubs on them? We're in the process of upgrading our octocanum drive platform and are wondering how much redesign would be necessary for these wheels/hubs.

Thanks!

Patrick

Hi Patrick,
We're going to be posting individual part drawings with key dimensions in the coming weeks (we posted the STEP files to help people get started).

The Mecanum wheels are both about 2.3" wide. The widest point is roller-roller.

-John

[Walter Deitzler]

Are the screws for the VersaHubs included the the purchase? Or do we have to buy those separately?

[pfreivald]

Hi Patrick,
We're going to be posting individual part drawings with key dimensions in the coming weeks (we posted the STEP files to help people get started).

The Mecanum wheels are both about 2.3" wide. The widest point is roller-roller.

-John

Excellent, thank you.

[JVN]

Are the screws for the VersaHubs included the the purchase? Or do we have to buy those separately?

The mounting hardware is not included with the hub.

[JB]

John, are there any plans to provide an adapter for gates belt pulleys to the versahub system? I could see that being a very popular addition.

I am also very curious about this, I think a lot of teams are going to start using belts in the future and was wondering if there were plans to make any "versahub" styled pulleys. Would love some insight if possible.

[pfreivald]

I am also very curious about this, I think a lot of teams are going to start using belts in the future and was wondering if there were plans to make any "versahub" styled pulleys. Would love some insight if possible.

If you hex broach the Gates pulley, then all you need is a clip ring or a spacer and you're good to go, right? (It's possible -- always -- that I'm missing something...)

[JB]

If you hex broach the Gates pulley, then all you need is a clip ring or a spacer and you're good to go, right? (It's possible -- always -- that I'm missing something...)

Yes that should work... but it would be cool to have it lock in place the the gears do, just a thought. On a side note I absolutely love the entire product line and can't with to see these things in action.

[Chris is me]

Yes that should work... but it would be cool to have it lock in place the the gears do, just a thought. On a side note I absolutely love the entire product line and can't with to see these things in action.

I don't really get what this adapter would do. If you're going through a hex broached pulley, you already have a system to both transmit torque and pilot your sprocket. If you wanted to go dead axle, you'd have to mill VersaPockets yourself. I don't really see how you could add something to make it work.

Either way, you need to machine the Gates part, so pick your poison.

[Jared Russell]

Yeah, a 5mm pitch, 15mm wide GT2 pulley (say 30 tooth? something big enough to have a 1.125 bore and VersaKeys) that was injection molded out of glass-filled nylon would be a fantastic addition. See what you've done to me VexPro...now all I want is more!

[Timz3082]

The mounting hardware is not included with the hub.

Just wondering if a selection of #8 bolts will be available through vex pro? It would simplify the wondering process and cut on shipping costs!

I also just wanted to say, nice work! You can tell that the whole line has room for expansion, and the available products, well, are irresistible!

Great job guys, you will be a major player this year, and I expect to see VexPro items on all winning robots ;)

[JVN]

Just wondering if a selection of #8 bolts will be available through vex pro? It would simplify the wondering process and cut on shipping costs!

We have a few of those available already. :)
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vex/products/accessories/structure/screws-8-32.html

Every VEX Robotics Design System screw is 8-32.

[Akash Rastogi]

I was interested in the mecanum wheels for a personal project and was wondering what type of rubber is used for the rollers as well as the hardness. Is it a material someone can commonly find and use to cast a mold?

Thanks!

[M. Mellott]

Love the new product lines, especially the VersaPlanetary Gearboxes! Do these gearboxes require any grease/lubricant, and if so, is it already applied to the gearbox when we receive it? I didn't see this mentioned in the product description, so I wanted to be sure.

Many thanks and much success on this new venture!

[Ricky Q.]

Curious about what kind of lead time/cut off you will have for international orders. Will you be able to ship to Aus before kickoff? If so when is the cut off date.

We will be able to ship items before kickoff, but please keep in mind the extended shipping times for international orders.

Shoot me a PM or contact our sales team directly and we can work with you.

Best,
Ricky

[PAR_WIG1350]

Current draw would be right under 40A at stall in low gear, which is ideal. Would have been near perfect for the 2012 game.

Current draw at stall does not change based on the gearbox. That means the stall current is 133 Amps per CIM at 12 volts.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

About the VersaWheels:

Custom "W" tread pattern is specially designed to maximize traction on FRC carpet.

I'm interested to hear more about the reasoning and research behind this.

There has been a lot of talk on these forums about the interaction between tread shape and the carpet.

Given the weight and cost, I would love to use these.

[Andrew Lawrence]

I'm having problems with the .STEP file for the VersaWheel. It opens fine, except I keep getting the error telling me to 'check entities'. I'm using Solidworks 2013 on Windows 7 (run via Bootcamp on a Macbook). Everything else worked perfectly except the wheel. Is anyone else having this problem? If someone has successfully converted the .STEP file to a .sldprt file, I'd like to see if I can open that without error, since I haven't gotten far enough to the point where I can save as a .sldprt file.

Thanks!

[O'Sancheski]

I'm having problems with the .STEP file for the VersaWheel. It opens fine, except I keep getting the error telling me to 'check entities'. I'm using Solidworks 2013 on Windows 7 (run via Bootcamp on a Macbook). Everything else worked perfectly except the wheel. Is anyone else having this problem? If someone has successfully converted the .STEP file to a .sldprt file, I'd like to see if I can open that without error, since I haven't gotten far enough to the point where I can save as a .sldprt file.

Thanks!

When I downloaded the .step file it came with a separate folder labeled MAC OSX. I don't have a Mac so I couldn't tell you if that would solve the issue.

[Andrew Lawrence]

When I downloaded the .step file it came with a separate folder labeled MAC OSX. I don't have a Mac so I couldn't tell you if that would solve the issue.

I noticed that, and when I tried opening the attached .step file, Soludworks stopped responding before it even started parsing the file.

[O'Sancheski]

I noticed that, and when I tried opening the attached .step file, Soludworks stopped responding before it even started parsing the file.

Just try opening the regular .step file.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Just try opening the regular .step file.

Got it working thanks to Brandon Liatys. Thanks for the help, though.

[NickCrispie]

What pressure is it designed to have if used with the 3/4" bore pancake pneumatic pistons?

[ttldomination]

Still wondering on how the Roughtop/Wedgetops will attach to these wheels..? I suppose it's a drill and rivet thing for now. :(

- Sunny G.

[Brandon Holley]

The user does not have to deal with the ball shift mechanism as that will be pre-assembled.

Paul

Thats awesome Paul. Thanks for the info.

-Brando

[JVN]

Still wondering on how the Roughtop/Wedgetops will attach to these wheels..? I suppose it's a drill and rivet thing for now. :(

- Sunny G.

While the traction wheels are designed to use their own tires (which, I think lots of people will be VERY happy with once they have the opportunity to play with them) you can easily attach traditional roughtop or wedgetop treads.

The method I used:
1. Assemble the wheel.
2. Cut the tread to length.
3. Hold the tread in place with a few zip ties or a belt.
4. Drill holes through the ends of the tread through the wheel rim using a small pilot bit.
5. Fasten the tread to the wheel using rivets, or self-tapping plastic screws.
6. Remove the zip-ties.

I am experimenting with some self-tapping screws that work REALLY well. While I would personally use the VEXpro traction tires, we will make sure there will be good options available for those who want to use their own tread.

-John

[AdamHeard]

While the traction wheels are designed to use their own tires (which, I think lots of people will be VERY happy with once they have the opportunity to play with them) you can easily attach traditional roughtop or wedgetop treads.

The method I used:
1. Assemble the wheel.
2. Cut the tread to length.
3. Hold the tread in place with a few zip ties or a belt.
4. Drill holes through the ends of the tread through the wheel rim using a small pilot bit.
5. Fasten the tread to the wheel using rivets, or self-tapping plastic screws.
6. Remove the zip-ties.

I am experimenting with some self-tapping screws that work REALLY well. While I would personally use the VEXpro traction tires, we will make sure there will be good options available for those who want to use their own tread.

-John

The tires are very exciting to me, I can't wait for the results of your traction tests!

[dag0620]

Just want to add in my excitement for this! Being from an electrical background I'm obviously more excited about the Jag's and Victor 888's, but still very awesome!

Thanks Vex and IFI!!!

[Redo91]

I am really excited to see the supply of gears available. There isn't anyone that I know of with such a large range of gears for the prices they have.

[ksafin]

Wow, this is mind blowing.

Huge thanks to IFI & Vex.

On another note, what say you all about the Mecanum wheels on VexPro? Significantly cheaper, so I'm wondering there's any tradeoff or if this is just a godsend.

[JVN]

On another note, what say you all about the Mecanum wheels on VexPro? Significantly cheaper, so I'm wondering there's any tradeoff or if this is just a godsend.

It's funny... we actually had this discussion during the pricing meeting.
"If we go with that price, will people think they're crappy? Should we just price them higher and make sure that people understand the quality level we're going for?"

We decided to go with the low price and hope that the community will understand that just because they're inexpensive, doesn't mean they're cheap.

-John

[ksafin]

It's funny... we actually had this discussion during the pricing meeting.
"If we go with that price, will people think they're crappy? Should we just price them higher and make sure that people understand the quality level we're going for?"

We decided to go with the low price and hope that the community will understand that just because they're inexpensive, doesn't mean they're cheap.

-John

Haha, interesting coincidence :)

Well, that's just phenomenal! We're a second year team with a tight budget but were giving a strong look at using mecanums this season (barring any circumstances that would make it a bad choice in the game this year) but the pricetag of over $400 was hefty one.

Glad to see some great quality wheels at an even greater quality price - can't wait to get our hands on some!

[pfreivald]

It's funny... we actually had this discussion during the pricing meeting.
"If we go with that price, will people think they're crappy? Should we just price them higher and make sure that people understand the quality level we're going for?"

We decided to go with the low price and hope that the community will understand that just because they're inexpensive, doesn't mean they're cheap.

-John

Great to hear! We're now re-designing our already re-designed octocanum drive to incorporate the IFI mecanum wheels. Expect an order next week! :)

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Hi Kevin,
It is tough to provide a load capacity on something like a wheel. I can tell you that these were designed with FRC applications in mind. They're built to be tough, and survive even the worst of what FRC teams will throw at them.

They're not built to be used as an all-terrain wheel-chair or something... they might work for that, but that isn't their designed usage.

Does that kind of answer your question? Is there a specific value you're interested in?

-John

Hi John,

I think others and you have fleshed out most of the ideas behind this, but I do still have a few questions about longevity of the mecanum wheels. Are the rollers molded directly to the axle? What material is that axle? I expect it will be able to handle normal driving conditions just fine but what about after 3 or 4 competitions...can rollers be replaced? More importantly, can an axle be replaced if it is bent? The body and spokes of the wheel does not concern me at all. We've had bent and bound rollers before but they were easily replaced.

Thanks for all the information you and the rest of the VexPro team are providing on these products!!

Kev

[JVN]

4. Yes, the hexes will all be aligned with the VersaKey pattern in a common configuration. Mounting multiple hubs on the same wheel will "just work."

-John

All,
I've been updated on this -- though this was our original intent, it proved cost prohibitive to do this. The hexes and VersaKeys will NOT be consistently aligned.

-John

[AdamHeard]

All,
I've been updated on this -- though this was our original intent, it proved cost prohibitive to do this. The hexes and VersaKeys will NOT be consistently aligned.

-John

IF this is the case, what is your recomended method for mounting a 4x2 traction wheel live axle. A single hub?

[thefro526]

All,
I've been updated on this -- though this was our original intent, it proved cost prohibitive to do this. The hexes and VersaKeys will NOT be consistently aligned.

-John

John, Now that the hexes and Versakeys will not be consistently aligned, how would you recommend doing the following:

http://content.vexrobotics.com/images/vexpro/VersaWheel4a.jpg

(Picture is of a gear being used on one side of a wheel, versakey on the other, just in case the photo gets removed/updated to reflect changes)

Would you replace one of the hex hubs with a bearing hubs and then rely on the gear's hex and VersaKeys to transmit Torque?

[Andrew Lawrence]

Do you plan on releasing different sizes and widths for the VersaWheels?

[nahstobor]

When will the CAD model of the Single Speed, single reduction transmissions be available?

[JVN]

IF this is the case, what is your recomended method for mounting a 4x2 traction wheel live axle. A single hub?

A single hub is more than enough to transfer the torque. So I would recommend a single hub, and a hex bearing for piloting on the other side.

[JVN]

Do you plan on releasing different sizes and widths for the VersaWheels?

Not for this season. We made the VersaWheel in a very universal size which we thought teams would use -- for other sizes we have the traction wheels:
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/traction-wheels/traction-wheels.html

[JVN]

John, Now that the hexes and Versakeys will not be consistently aligned, how would you recommend doing the following:

http://content.vexrobotics.com/images/vexpro/VersaWheel4a.jpg

(Picture is of a gear being used on one side of a wheel, versakey on the other, just in case the photo gets removed/updated to reflect changes)

Would you replace one the hex hub with a bearing hub and the rely on the gear's hex and VersaKeys to transmit Torque?

Yes, that's exactly what I'd do. The single gear is more than enough to transmit the torque. You may just need a pilot on the other side, depending on the width of the wheel.

-John

[Aren_Hill]

Turns out a 1/2" hex bearing on the other side to pilot is more cost effective than another hub anyways.

[Paul Copioli]

IF this is the case, what is your recomended method for mounting a 4x2 traction wheel live axle. A single hub?

The hub designs are such that only one side needs a Versahub to transfer the torque. We initially intended that the hex would be timed to a certain VersaHub feature, but we quickly realized that we could not meet our pricing targets with such a requirement so we relaxed the requirement.

Our reasoning for relaxing the requirement was that since the full torque load could be taken by one hub, then a hex bearing can be used on the other side if you are worried about deflection. As it turns out, the bearing solution is less expensive for the customer anyway.

Paul

[AdamHeard]

The hub designs are such that only one side needs a Versahub to transfer the torque. We initially intended that the hex would be timed to a certain VersaHub feature, but we quickly realized that we could not meet our pricing targets with such a requirement so we relaxed the requirement.

Our reasoning for relaxing the requirement was that since the full torque load could be taken by one hub, then a hex bearing can be used on the other side if you are worried about deflection. As it turns out, the bearing solution is less expensive for the customer anyway.

Paul

Thanks. I wasn't worried about torque, but supporting the shaft on the other side. For some reason I thought the wheel bores were 1.25, not 1.125. What you and John suggest is a really clean solution, I like it.

[Jared Russell]

Thanks. I wasn't worried about torque, but supporting the shaft on the other side. For some reason I thought the wheel bores were 1.25, not 1.125. What you and John suggest is a really clean solution, I like it.

It's also a great use for the handful of seized hex bearings we have collected through the years.

[JVN]

A few people asked about whether we would sell the shifter shafts independently. The answer is "yes" and they're already live on the site (linked from the kit contents section of the Ball Shifter page).

Short Output Shaft (w/ gears) -- as used in the 3-stage gearbox.
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/ball-shifter/217-2793.html
Without gears... just the shaft:
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/ball-shifter/217-2791.html

Long Output Shaft (w/ gears) -- as used in the 2-stage gearbox.
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/ball-shifter/217-2792.html
Without gears... just the shaft:
http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/gearboxes/ball-shifter/217-2790.html

-John

[Donut]

All,
I've been updated on this -- though this was our original intent, it proved cost prohibitive to do this. The hexes and VersaKeys will NOT be consistently aligned.

-John

Does this apply to the 1/2" keyed hubs as well? I am assuming so but wanted to confirm anyway.

[JVN]

Does this apply to the 1/2" keyed hubs as well? I am assuming so but wanted to confirm anyway.

Yes, this applies to those.

[M. Mellott]

Bumping this post/question...

Love the new product lines, especially the VersaPlanetary Gearboxes! Do these gearboxes require any grease/lubricant, and if so, is it already applied to the gearbox when we receive it? I didn't see this mentioned in the product description, so I wanted to be sure.

Many thanks and much success on this new venture!

[Andy Baker]

We initially intended that the hex would be timed to a certain VersaHub feature, but we quickly realized that we could not meet our pricing targets with such a requirement so we relaxed the requirement.

Paul

For those folks who need this alignment requirement, the hubs at AndyMark meet this need. Previously, our hubs did not align with the holes, but they do now. I pulled 19 off of our shelf and put them on a Cross Hex Tube. These are in stock now:

http://files.andymark.com/am-0096-aligned.jpg

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[AllenGregoryIV]

JVN or Paul, can you explain how the VersaPlanetary motor connectors work? I've looked through the CAD and I see the set screw, the collar type thing with the slit and the place that it goes. My real question, "is the setscrew the only thing keeping the motor engaged?" I do like the access holes for the setscrew, and that you can swap motors with out removing the gearbox from the robot.

I'm excited to get VEXpro parts in.

[JVN]

I think others and you have fleshed out most of the ideas behind this, but I do still have a few questions about longevity of the mecanum wheels. Are the rollers molded directly to the axle? What material is that axle? I expect it will be able to handle normal driving conditions just fine but what about after 3 or 4 competitions...can rollers be replaced? More importantly, can an axle be replaced if it is bent? The body and spokes of the wheel does not concern me at all. We've had bent and bound rollers before but they were easily replaced.


Hi Kevin,
The axle is 5mm #45 steel. If you check out the CAD model, you can see how the axle is supported much further out than you might expect due to some creative design of the cast aluminum roller support; the bending moment on these axles is greatly reduced. We experimented with this geometry when designing the Mecanum Wheels for the VEX Robotics Design System, and liked it so much we carried it forward to the VEXpro line.

http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/images/Roller-Section.PNG

The rollers will be made from rubber co-molded onto a plastic shell. The shaft is knurled on each end and press-fit into two of these plastic shells. We will offer a replacement roller-assembly pack which includes some TBD quantity of roller-axle-bracket assemblies.

http://content.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/images/Spare-Roller-Assy.PNG

Yes, we expect it to handle 3-4 competitions "no problem." Yes, we will provide a mechanism to replace the rollers if you want fresh ones.

Does that answer your question somewhat? I will have quantitative load ratings for you sometime in the coming weeks.

-John

[JVN]

Love the new product lines, especially the VersaPlanetary Gearboxes! Do these gearboxes require any grease/lubricant, and if so, is it already applied to the gearbox when we receive it?

Mike,
For our gearboxes with aluminum gears, the teflon infused ceramic coating greatly increases the wear resistance of the gears. That said, teams should probably apply a light coating of white lithium grease to ensure longevity. We know many of you will want to be able to use these items for many years, and this will help make that possible.

The VersaPlanetary gearboxes use high-strength hardened steel gears.

At this time, we are not planning to grease the gears before shipping.

-John

[billbo911]

John,
With the addition of all these great new gearing options, is it possible you might want to make a newer version of your "JVN-DesignCalc.xls" that is defaulted with the "Ball Shifter" specs?
I know I can work with the current version by dropping in the numbers, but having the default already have the basics in there would make things even better, IMHO.

[ksafin]

Hey, I have a quick inquiry about the Mecanum wheels..

I read on the description that they're optimized for the FRC carpet. This is good and all, but how do they fare on other surfaces, like concrete? We like to demo our robots in the courtyard of our school, which is concrete.

I'm just concerned that the rubber rollers may not fare too well, and I'd love to know before I put in my order.

Thanks!

[Paul Copioli]

JVN or Paul, can you explain how the VersaPlanetary motor connectors work? I've looked through the CAD and I see the set screw, the collar type thing with the slit and the place that it goes. My real question, "is the setscrew the only thing keeping the motor engaged?" I do like the access holes for the setscrew, and that you can swap motors with out removing the gearbox from the robot.

I'm excited to get VEXpro parts in.


Allen,

The motor connection that the VP uses is one of the more counter intuitive engineered items I have come across in my time as an engineer. This technology is used on industrial robotic gear boxes all over the world and is becoming the common adapter for high rigidity, low backlash applications.

There are two basic principles at work:

(1) The motor pilot is not used, but the shaft is actually used as the pilot.

(2) The set screw really isn't used as normal set screw (clamping on a rigid shaft). It is used as a clamping lever to squeeze the C-coupling into an ellipse.

The C-coupler (collar type thing with the slit) and the input collar (the thing the C-coupler fits into are precision machined for an exact slight clearance. In addition, you use a specific C-coupler based on the motor shaft diameter. There is a different coupler for 3mm, 1/8", 1/8" with knurl, and 5mm shafts all with the same OD so they fit in the input collar. The clamping screw is tightened (don't really need that much tightening torque) and turns the C-coupler into an ellipse which locks it in place with no backlash. I have accidentally hand tightened a coupler before and it still locks solid. It took me over 9 months of rigorous testing when I was at FANUC to approve this technology for use on our robots, but after the testing I was sold. easy for replacing bad motors, easy for replacing the gear sets, and no more press fitting gears on motor shafts.

Now for high end motors like industrial robots use, this next benefit really isn't a benefit, but for some of the less expensive, non-high tolerance motors we use in FRC, I have found that this next benefit is really helpful:

Since you do not have to completely clamp the motor face to the VP mounting face, any shaft runnout misalignment between the motor shaft and motor mounting face is completely mitigated by just hand tightening the mounting motor plate mounting screws. Since the screws only act to keep the motor case from spinning, they only need a little loctite and hand tightening.

We will have detailed diagrams on how this all works prior to kickoff.

Paul

[ksafin]

Was the question of belt sprockets w/ VersaHubs already addressed? We want to use belts this year, how would this work with VersaHubs?

[Aren_Hill]

Was the question of belt sprockets w/ VersaHubs already addressed? We want to use belts this year, how would this work with VersaHubs?

All of the CAD models are available, if I end up using pulleys with them for any reason I will just be machining the versahub pattern into my own pulleys. But I've got CNC access.

With a lathe you could bore out a pulley to fit over one of the versahub bosses and put a bolt pattern in it if you just have access to manual machines.

[JB987]

Was the question of belt sprockets w/ VersaHubs already addressed? We want to use belts this year, how would this work with VersaHubs?

If you are using a live axle and hex or key the sprocket depending on use of keyed shaft or hex shaft, you wouldn't have to worry about attaching the sprockets...a dead axle set up can be done but the alignment and placement of mounting holes needed to modify a sprocket can be challenging.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Does that answer your question somewhat? I will have quantitative load ratings for you sometime in the coming weeks.

-John

John,

Consider my questions answered! Thanks for all the detailed information. I did pick around the CAD file a little bit, but I wasn't quite sure what all was what. Now I just have to convince the team that mecanums aren't as bad as everyone says they are (you'd think our track record with them would be enough...but no) :D

[AllenGregoryIV]

Allen,

The motor connection that the VP uses is one of the more counter intuitive engineered items I have come across in my time as an engineer. This technology is used on industrial robotic gear boxes all over the world and is becoming the common adapter for high rigidity, low backlash applications.
...
Paul

Thanks for the explanation Paul, That's how I sort of thought it worked and I figured you guys knew something (a lot of things) I didn't. It seems like the perfect solution for FRC robots and it should make it so much easier for teams. My need for an arbor press in the pits just halved. The wheel bearings aren't press fits, right? I might be completely done with the arbor press if that's true.

[Paul Copioli]

Wheel bearings are not press fits. They are light transition fits, where if the bearing is at its largest and the wheel is at its smallest you may have to press it in by hand.

The tolerances are such that the worst case is a 0.0005" interference. The way the plastic geometry is designed will allow even this interference case to be hand pressed.

[Tristan Lall]

Since you do not have to completely clamp the motor face to the VP mounting face, any shaft runnout misalignment between the motor shaft and motor mounting face is completely mitigated by just hand tightening the mounting motor plate mounting screws. Since the screws only act to keep the motor case from spinning, they only need a little loctite and hand tightening.
Am I understanding correctly that the motor is essentially floating, and any shaft runout is taken up by the flexure of the motor shaft, the play in the bearing and the play in the spline?

(And it works fine without a fancy spherical-race bearing, because the runout is so small?)

[smistthegreat]

When will the CAD model of the Single Speed, single reduction transmissions be available?

Bumping this question, because I haven't seen an answer to it yet. Apologies if it's been answered, but I couldn't find a response in this thread and the model isn't on the website.

[DonRotolo]

JVN & team:

For the ball shifter, the recommended Grayhill 63R encoders seem to be a bit expensive, about $65 or so. The US Digital encoders are half that. Why is the Grayhill encoder recommended?

If we choose the US Digital encoder, do you expect it to be 'easy' to mount to the shifter?

Concerning the 2-stage ball shifter with long output shaft, am I correct in assuming a (1/2") hex bearing might be needed to support the far end of the shaft, and that it is not included?

Thanks,
Don

[NobleActual]

One of the first things I thought.....hmmmm seems a lot like apple's video's!

Amazing products though, and awesome prices, it'll really be interesting this year to see what teams decide to build or buy. I think they'll be some tough choices!

[JVN]

JVN & team:

For the ball shifter, the recommended Grayhill 63R encoders seem to be a bit expensive, about $65 or so. The US Digital encoders are half that. Why is the Grayhill encoder recommended?

If we choose the US Digital encoder, do you expect it to be 'easy' to mount to the shifter?

Concerning the 2-stage ball shifter with long output shaft, am I correct in assuming a (1/2") hex bearing might be needed to support the far end of the shaft, and that it is not included?

Thanks,
Don

Hi Don,
We have provided mounting in the kit for both encoders. We don't prefer one or the other, but of the myriad of Grayhill encoders, that model is the one we recommend.

If you look on the shifter page you can see we have CAD files posted showing the shifter with each encoder type mounted (one CAD model with Grayhill, one with US Digital).

Concerning the long output shaft on the 3-stage:
It depends on the loading application. What do you intend?
That shaft is double supported by 1/2" bearings, so many applications would not require additional support.

-John

[DonRotolo]

Concerning the long output shaft on the 3-stage:
It depends on the loading application. What do you intend?
That shaft is double supported by 1/2" bearings, so many applications would not require additional support.
More hypothetical than anything. Perhaps a better wording would be "IF I wanted to support the far end of the shaft, would a half inch hex bearing be appropriate?"

Thanks for the other responses John, that's really helpful information.

[Gregor]

It mentions on ball shifter page that they provide mounting points for the US Digital and Greyhill encoders.

Can someone provide me a part number for the Greyhill encoders?

[DonRotolo]

Can someone provide me a part number for the Greyhill encoders?Scroll down to near the bottom of the page, they have a link to the Greyhill 63R series encoders.

Future Electronics (http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/electromechanical/switches/encoder-switches/Pages/1613116-63R256.aspx?IM=0) sells them, for example, but you can find them at a better price if you look. I think Digikey has them for about $10 less.

[Gregor]

Scroll down to near the bottom of the page, they have a link to the Greyhill 63R series encoders.

Future Electronics (http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/electromechanical/switches/encoder-switches/Pages/1613116-63R256.aspx?IM=0) sells them, for example, but you can find them at a better price of you look.

Thanks!

[cadandcookies]

You know what one of my favorite things is?

Sprocket size is laser engraved on each part

[mjgard]

When I try to use the PDV for VEXPro products is the cost for the products supposed to go to zero in the cart? When I go to checkout it shows full price for everything still and I thought this was supposed to be a PDV.

[BigJ]

When I try to use the PDV for VEXPro products is the cost for the products supposed to go to zero in the cart? When I go to checkout it shows full price for everything still and I thought this was supposed to be a PDV.

Are you ordering more than the PDV limit?

Your PDV can be used for the following:

Either (2) Victor 888 Motor Controllers, (2) Jaguar Motor Controllers or (1) of each
(1) 2-Wire Motor 393
(1) Motor Controller 29
(1) F-F 3-Wire Adapter

[mjgard]

No I just tried to order the 2 Victor 888 Controllers.

[Ricky Q.]

No I just tried to order the 2 Victor 888 Controllers.

Make sure you are on the PDV page:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdv-group.html

Let us know if it is still giving you trouble.

Best,
Ricky

[mjgard]

I am on the PDV page and I put the code in the box on the page and when I add the items to the cart it accepted the code, but everything was still full price and I continued through the checkout to see if it would change and up to the final point before paying everything still showed full price.

[Ricky Q.]

I am on the PDV page and I put the code in the box on the page and when I add the items to the cart it accepted the code, but everything was still full price and I continued through the checkout to see if it would change and up to the final point before paying everything still showed full price.

The Discount Amount should be showing up on the 'My Cart' page - which you can get to at top right.

If there are still issues, give our sales team a call at 903-453-0802 and we can get it straightened out.

Best,
Ricky

[josesantos]

I've noticed that the Single Speed Single Reduction Gearboxes no longer have weight listed under their specs. Was the previously listed weight of 1.26 lbs incorrect?

[cfair]

Is it possible to mount 2 sprockets (one on each side) to a versawheel AND a hex hub? Would that require two hex versahubs and two sprocket mount hubs? What length screws would be used? The purpose is to direct-drive a center wheel with a hex shaft and transfer torque to two other wheels with chains.

[Redo91]

cfair, go check out page 12 of this thread. That might answer the questions you have.

[JVN]

Is it possible to mount 2 sprockets (one on each side) to a versawheel AND a hex hub? Would that require two hex versahubs and two sprocket mount hubs? What length screws would be used? The purpose is to direct-drive a center wheel with a hex shaft and transfer torque to two other wheels with chains.

Yes, this would be possible.

[JVN]

I've noticed that the Single Speed Single Reduction Gearboxes no longer have weight listed under their specs. Was the previously listed weight of 1.26 lbs incorrect?

Yes, this weight was erroneous. We will be posting more details on this early next week.

-John

[team222badbrad]

This may have already been answered, but there are lots of posts to sort through...

Can teams who ordered VEXpro parts expect "delivery before kickoff"? :confused:

I'm getting anxious to check out the Ball Shifters... :D

[Andrew Lawrence]

How do you expect shipping to be during the build season?

[JVN]

This may have already been answered, but there are lots of posts to sort through...

Can teams who ordered VEXpro parts expect "delivery before kickoff"? :confused:

I'm getting anxious to check out the Ball Shifters... :D

In general, teams should NOT expect delivery before kickoff, though most items will begin shipping the first week in January.

[JVN]

How do you expect shipping to be during the build season?


During build season we will be fully in-stock on all items and any order placed before 3PM (central) will ship same day.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Just a heads up, we are live with JVN and Karthik right now to ask them some questions about the product. Listen in and chat with us at http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=98466&cmd=tc

[mjgard]

Does the PDV get us the items for free or for the $49/$59 price points? When I add them to my cart what should the price be?

[Ricky Q.]

Does the PDV get us the items for free or for the $49/$59 price points? When I add them to my cart what should the price be?

You get 2 total Victors and/or Jaguars for free along with (1) 2-Wire Motor 393, (1) Motor Controller 29 and (1) F-F 3-Wire Cable. If that is all you add to your cart the only charge should be a shipping charge.

You can add other items to the same order, but are responsible for their costs.

Details are at the top of this page: http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/pdv-group.html

Best,
Ricky

[billbo911]

While the traction wheels are designed to use their own tires (which, I think lots of people will be VERY happy with once they have the opportunity to play with them).......While I would personally use the VEXpro traction tires, we will make sure there will be good options available for those who want to use their own tread.

-John

OK, maybe I missed something, but where are the Traction Tires listed? I no longer see them on the VexPro (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/) site.

Whaaa happened?:confused:

[Joe G.]

OK, maybe I missed something, but where are the Traction Tires listed? I no longer see them on the VexPro (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/) site.

Whaaa happened?:confused:

The old style traction wheels appear to have been discontinued and replaced with these. (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/traction-wheels.html)

[ttldomination]

The old style traction wheels appear to have been discontinued and replaced with these. (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/traction-wheels.html)

Interesting, I wonder what spawned this decision.

- Sunny G.

[Ricky Q.]

We are disappointed to announce that VEXpro Traction Tires will not be available for the 2013 FRC Season.

Due to unforeseen manufacturing issues, we were unable to guarantee the quality level required for VEXpro Products and FRC applications. We decided that rather release a product that does not live up to our quality demands, we would postpone this item’s release.

VEXpro Traction Wheels (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/traction-wheels.html) will still be available. We recommend using Roughtop or Wedgetop tread with them.

Customers who have placed orders for VEXpro Traction Tires are being contacted individually. Contact us with any questions at support@vexrobotics.com or 903-453-0802.

Best,
Ricky

[Ricky Q.]

The old style traction wheels appear to have been discontinued and replaced with these. (http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/wheels-and-hubs/traction-wheels.html)

The old IFI Wheels were discontinued as part of the VEXpro Relaunch.

Best,
Ricky

[Redo91]

Are the IFI wheels discontinued or just not part of the VEXpro line? I ask because they can still be found through a search on the site.

[Ricky Q.]

Are the IFI wheels discontinued or just not part of the VEXpro line? I ask because they can still be found through a search on the site.

They are discontinued. The search has not fully cleared out of all the old IFI Robotics items yet.

Best,
Ricky

[pfreivald]

Are the mecanum wheels still good to go?

[Richard Wallace]

Due to unforeseen manufacturing issues, we were unable to guarantee the quality level required for VEXpro Products and FRC applications. We decided that rather release a product that does not live up to our quality demands, we would postpone this item’s release.This is what good suppliers do when they have a quality problem. They let their customers know about it right away.

I wish all of the suppliers I deal with would do this. Props to IFI/VEXPro.

How much will the overall diameter of a "four inch" Versawheel be changed, relative to that of a Traction Tire, when roughtop or wedgetop conveyor belting is used instead? The renderings appear to show the Traction Tire proud of the wheel by ~3/8", so I'm guessing that traditional treads will reduce the OD by ~1/4", is that about right?

[Ricky Q.]

Are the mecanum wheels still good to go?

Yes, all other products are still good to go.

The VEXpro elves will be very busy the first week of January getting orders shipped out to teams before kickoff.

Best,
Ricky

[pfreivald]

Yes, all other products are still good to go.

The VEXpro elves will be very busy the first week of January getting orders shipped out to teams before kickoff.

Best,
Ricky

Excellent! Thank you for the quick reply.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Are there plans to sell the ball shifter mounting bracket separately?

Thank You

[topgun]

What gear ring ratio do you recommend for the mounting the 775 into the VersaPlanetary gearbox with the intention of mating it into a gearbox with two CIM motors? The CIMs are rated at 5300 rpm no load rpm. The 775 18V are rated at 19600 no load rpms. The resutling ratio is 3.679. Do we go with a 3:1 gear ring or a 4:1 gear ring?

Really love the concept of not pressing on a pinion gear. That is the most stressful part of building the robot because one small slip and you are out 5 or more days waiting for a shipment of a new motor. Also, anything to make it easier for teams without a lot of equipment to use.

Thanks.

[Mk.32]

What gear ring ratio do you recommend for the mounting the 775 into the VersaPlanetary gearbox with the intention of mating it into a gearbox with two CIM motors? The CIMs are rated at 5300 rpm no load rpm. The 775 18V are rated at 19600 no load rpms. The resutling ratio is 3.679. Do we go with a 3:1 gear ring or a 4:1 gear ring?

Really love the concept of not pressing on a pinion gear. That is the most stressful part of building the robot because one small slip and you are out 5 or more days waiting for a shipment of a new motor. Also, anything to make it easier for teams without a lot of equipment to use.

Thanks.

The pinion thing is an annoying issue, but having an $30 Arbor Press + a few extra motors makes the process go a little smoother.

Also I asked this before but it seemed to have gotten buried, do you have any load tests on the VersaPlanetary? I know BB rates theirs at 35 ft-lbs.

[Paul Copioli]

topgun,

Actually, the RS775-18V when being used at 12V only has about a 13,000 RPM free speed. The free speed is proportional to driving voltage so 12/18*19,600 is ~ 13,000. Comparing that to the 5310 RPM of the CIM motor, you get 2.44:1. Matching at free speed is not necessary (as a matter of fact, I never match at free speed) as the robot never really operates at free speed. For general drive train use, 3:1 is the proper ratio to use for the RS-775. However, I have used as high as 4:1 before to try to match speeds at operating conditions.

Think of it this way, at free speed the faster motor will try to drive the slower motor so the slower motor will act as a generator (a load) on the smaller motor. Don't worry, though, as soon as some load gets on the system, the lower power motor will slow down much faster and the speeds will be matched. Dr. Joe Johnson posted about this several years ago. I printed out that post and still have it for reference as he explains it much better than I explain it.

So the short answer is use 3:1.

Mk.32,

I have conducted all of the testing on the VersaPlanetary Gearboxes and have made my final load rating conclusions. I am currently putting it in a format more useable for FRC teams. Included in the ratings will be rated continuous torque, Max Torque, overhung load equations (aka force on the shaft), and recommended motor / gear ratio combination ratings.

However, I will share some of the data here. Please note that something will break at the Maximum tourque rating:

All ratings are based on the output torque and the gear stage at the output.

3:1, 4:1, 5:1 gear stage maximum output load rating with 1/2" Hex Shaft = 160 N-m [~120ft-lb]
The failure mode is the actual Hex Ultimate stress failure.

10:1 gear stage maximum output load rating with 1/2" Hex Shaft = 100 N-m [~74ft-lb]
The failure mode is the carrier plate stress crack originating from the mating internal spline connection. The 10:1 stage carrier pins are very close to the internal spline. This could not be avoided, but the 10:1 is above our estimated maximum Torque.

So if you are using a 50:1 double reduction gearbox, then I suggest you put the 5:1 stage on the output.

For those of you doing the math yourselves, the 100:1 gearbox with a RS775 has an output stall torque of around 58 ft-lb so it is below the max torque rating of the gearbox.

We will have a ratings table for our recommended combinations and potential failure modes for motor / ratio combinations up to 1000:1.

Paul

[AllenGregoryIV]

Paul,

If you were to use the versaplanetary with the CIM motor output shaft into another gearbox, for example the 7:1 single speed gearbox. Then the torque rating of the final gearbox would be more important correct.

For example could you use a 700:1 reduction by having a 100:1 versaplanetary into a 7:1 single speed to drive an arm. I'm thinking of an application similar to the hip joint gearbox on 148's 2011 Raptor.

[Paul Copioli]

Allen,

The rating of the VersaPlanetary only really cares about what output it sees. Your question pertains to the output torque rating of the single speed gearbox, which I am not on the hook for calculating (well, at least not yet).

The problem with your specific example is the torque rating of the 8mm aluminum output shaft and 2mm keyway combination. The load rating for the VP 8mm shaft option will be significantly lower than the 1/2" hex rating. Those numbers will be on our web site soon.

Paul

[Madison]

I have a brief question that isn't really relevant given the delay in availability of the traction tires.

On the recent EWCP podcast, John talked a bit about trying different tread profiles and how he was surprised by the effectiveness of the 'W' pattern that's available on the VersaWheel. Why, then, do the traction tires available for the traction wheels have a different pattern and can you say which performs better than the other?

[billbo911]

I have a brief question that isn't really relevant given the delay in availability of the traction tires.

On the recent EWCP podcast, John talked a bit about trying different tread profiles and how he was surprised by the effectiveness of the 'W' pattern that's available on the VersaWheel. Why, then, do the traction tires available for the traction wheels have a different pattern and can you say which performs better than the other?

I believe the traction tires are not available this year.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1202918&postcount=226

"Manufacturing issues". Hmmm, maybe a tread pattern redesign could be added. :D

[billbo911]

I ordered a pair of the Ball Shifters today, but immediately received an e-mail informing me "Your order is On Hold due to extended lead time... "

So, does anyone have an idea how long it will be before they are actually shipped?

[Paul Copioli]

billbo911,

All orders will received prior to January 2nd will be shipped prior to FRC Kickoff. This does not mean you will receive the order before kickoff, but it will ship from our Greenville, Tx warehouse before FRC Kickoff.

Our facility has been closed since December 25th through January 1st, so we will be shipping out all VEXpro orders the first week of January.

Paul

[billbo911]

billbo911,

All orders will received prior to January 2nd will be shipped prior to FRC Kickoff. This does not mean you will receive the order before kickoff, but it will ship from our Greenville, Tx warehouse before FRC Kickoff.

Our facility has been closed since December 25th through January 1st, so we will be shipping out all VEXpro orders the first week of January.

Paul

Thanks Paul!
I was hoping that might be the case.
Now I just need to be patient, not one of my stronger traits.

[tim-tim]

Yeah, a 5mm pitch, 15mm wide GT2 pulley (say 30 tooth? something big enough to have a 1.125 bore and VersaKeys) that was injection molded out of glass-filled nylon would be a fantastic addition. See what you've done to me VexPro...now all I want is more!

I couldn't agree more. Maybe an entire line up of them...

[MichaelBick]

I couldn't agree more. Maybe an entire line up of them...

9mm wide would be nice too for all the non drive applications

[DampRobot]

9mm wide would be nice too for all the non drive applications

There's no problem using 9mm pulleys in the drive, given you do the math, and take a look at what worked in the past. 971 ran 9mm, 24 (or so) GT2 pulleys with 3.5" diameter, 2" wide wheels and a traction limited low gear. As far as I know, they never had any issues ratcheting. There are plenty of other threads discussing this, but the horsepower ratings Gates gives are conservative for FRC applications.

[JB987]

High Rollers' drive train has been rolling with PowerGrip GT 9mm for 6 years without any problems. We love em!

[R.C.]

High Rollers' drive train has been rolling with PowerGrip GT 9mm for 6 years without any problems. We love em!

Joe,

What size pulley's have you ran?

-RC

[R.C.]

High Rollers' drive train has been rolling with PowerGrip GT 9mm for 6 years without any problems. We love em!

Joe,

What size pulley's have you ran?

-RC