First Choice 2013

[Phyrxes]

If you log into the sample account at AndyMark's website (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm) you can see the costs associated with items in preparation for Monday. I know I saw the total number of points teams were given last year posted this fall but have lost track of the number, anybody have it handy?

Happy wishlist building this weekend everyone.

[Mk.32]

I think was a 100 last year, but unsure what it is this year.

100 looks reasonable for this year again.

[midway78224]

It was 100 credits. Depending on your list that may or may not be enough for what some teams what to get. Speaking for my team only it wouldn't be enough but if its only 100 credits we would have to redo our list that day. If i remember correct too some items last yr were only like 1 or 2 credits as this year it looks like the lowest is 4 or 5 credits. That could mean we may be getting more credits or just have to get only what is really needed.

[dcarr]

I sure wish they'd tell us the number of credits in advance, it would make things significantly easier.

[Gregor]

11 Talons for everyone!

[dcarr]

How many points are you all planning on saving for items that will be added post-kickoff?

[JohnChristensen]

Last year were there any parts added post-kickoff that could not be purchased elsewhere? I can't remember.

[dcarr]

Last year were there any parts added post-kickoff that could not be purchased elsewhere? I can't remember.

I remember purchasing a bunch of basketballs separately since there was a limit of 2 anyway (I believe I'm remembering that correctly).

I guess a related question is: last year were there any parts added post-kickoff that were a way better deal on FIRST Choice.

[Gregor]

FIRST Choice wasn't released until kickoff in previous years.

[dcarr]

FIRST Choice wasn't released until kickoff in previous years.

Wow my memory is foggy. In that case, what are people thinking in terms of how many credits to spend now vs. save? (would help if we knew how many we got :P)

[JohnChristensen]

Wow my memory is foggy. In that case, what are people thinking in terms of how many credits to spend now vs. save? (would help if we knew how many we got :P)

It appears mine is just as bad. I think a 67/33 split might be good for a starting point.

[dcarr]

Also: as far as everyone knows, is a PO (i.e. from Boeing Grant) in STIMS considered "paid" when it comes to receiving access to the FIRST Choice password?

[F22Rapture]

GTX 560s for 5 credits? WHAT :ahh:

OK then... :D

[CalTran]

Hmm...8 slot cRio for 9 credits...we might have to jump on this offer (And find some of our extra buses too)

[DampRobot]

Could someone do me a favor and post a screen shot of the pages with the credit numbers? I don't have the STIMS logon handy.

EDIT: Didn't see the AndyMark test account.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

I'm predicting Talons will be the first items gone, followed by the encoders (only 30ish), the Classmate, sidecar, batteries, and all sensors under 100 items.

Also interesting - only one Cypress board available! Who will be first to get it?

[Mark McLeod]

I laughed when I saw this one:

http://www.andymark.com/v/vspfiles/photos/fc13-023-0.jpg DB37 Flat Ribbon Cable Assembly (Assembled backwards!) (fc13-023) http://files.andymark.com/externallink1.gif (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/fc13-023.htm)

[jason701802]

Hmm... 2ft of 6AWG wire is valued the same as a Talon and a cRIO

[sanddrag]

If these "costs" are accurate and assuming we get 100 credits again, this may be the best FIRST season ever!

[F22Rapture]

Hmm... 2ft of 6AWG wire is valued the same as a Talon and a cRIO

Yes, most of the cheaper items are terrible values :/

Ethernet port saver = 6 credits = $10 = $1.60/credit

Talon = 9 credits = $60 = $6.67/credit

Scale that up to the cRIO and you get where this is going :)

All-in-all I can't recommend buying smaller parts with credits until after the game has been revealed.

[DonRotolo]

If these "costs" are accurate and assuming we get 100 credits again, this may be the best FIRST season ever!
It is entirely possible that the "costs" of the items are also just 'random' numbers, and the real values will not be posted until Go-Live. So a port saver might be 2 credits and a cRio chassis 25. I do not know, I am just speculating.

[dcarr]

It is entirely possible that the "costs" of the items are also just 'random' numbers, and the real values will not be posted until Go-Live. So a port saver might be 2 credits and a cRio chassis 25. I do not know, I am just speculating.

Well, that would certainly throw a wrench in everyone's list building. We'll find out soon enough.

[McGurky]

It is entirely possible that the "costs" of the items are also just 'random' numbers, and the real values will not be posted until Go-Live. So a port saver might be 2 credits and a cRio chassis 25. I do not know, I am just speculating.

If this is the case, what would be the purpose of even having numbers there?

[dcarr]

If this is the case, what would be the purpose of even having numbers there?

Well, the game hint this year is Rick Roll...

[McGurky]

Well, the game hint this year is Rick Roll...

Point taken.

I do recall the point values for many of those items being similar last year, which leads me to believe that they are the actual point values.

I however cannot answer why 2, one dollar rolls of Teflon tape is worth the same as 1 $500 C-Rio...

[dcarr]

I however cannot answer why 2, one dollar rolls of Teflon tape is worth the same as 1 $500 C-Rio...

Shhh keep it on the down-low, we don't want them realizing and raising the price :)

[F22Rapture]

Point taken.

I do recall the point values for many of those items being similar last year, which leads me to believe that they are the actual point values.

I however cannot answer why 2, one dollar rolls of Teflon tape is worth the same as 1 $500 C-Rio...

Teflon tape doesn't go out of date :)

Same reason $180 Nvidia graphics cards are selling for 5 points. Companies are dumping their old inventories. NI is already subsidizing the hardware so I doubt they make much (if any) profit off of the cRIOs anyway, few teams are likely to buy the 8-slot when the new model has so many benefits while costing 40% less, and they'd much rather not have to deal with the cost of storing unmovable units.

[dcarr]

Same reason $180 Nvidia graphics cards are selling for 5 points. Companies are dumping their old inventories. NI is already subsidizing the hardware so I doubt they make much (if any) profit off of the cRIOs anyway, few teams are likely to buy the 8-slot when the new model has so many benefits while costing 40% less, and they'd much rather not have to deal with the cost of storing unmovable units.

As soon as I saw it was the 8-slot cRIO, I figured that was the case. Do they even sell the 8-slot anymore? My impression was that only the 4-slot is actually for sale.

[ken.3038]

The team password is that available now or wait till Dec. 10?

[Peyton Yeung]

The team password is that available now or wait till Dec. 10?

That will be released on the 10th

[z_beeblebrox]

How does one sign into the sample account?

[dcarr]

How does one sign into the sample account?

Use Team 5000 and the listed password at the top of the page.

[slijin]

Got back confirmation from Andy Baker himself!

Samuel,

Thank you for the note.

Yes, each team will get 100 points tomorrow.
Yep, those are the prices, and they won't change in value.

Have a great week!

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

in response to the following questions:

Will the quantity of FIRSTChoice credits that each team will be allocated be 100 when the system is opened on the 10th of December?
Will the "pricing" (number of credits required to purchase) of every FIRSTChoice item with a listed "price" stay the same for all such items, or should we expect changes in pricing in the near future?

[dcarr]

Got back confirmation from Andy Baker himself!



in response to the following questions:

Wow! I emailed on Friday and the gentleman who responded refused to answer, saying it would be unfair to other teams.

[Teamcodeorange]

So, does ordering start at 12:00AM tonight?

[dcarr]

So, does ordering start at 12:00AM tonight?

My understanding was 12 noon tomorrow as stated on the page.

[Teamcodeorange]

My understanding was 12 noon tomorrow as stated on the page.

I missed that, thanks.

[slijin]

My understanding was 12 noon tomorrow as stated on the page.

As a clarification for anyone who uses CD for all their information instead of FIRST: that's 12PM noon, EST.

[Gary Dillard]

Is this new today? I don't remember seeing it before.
Your Team Starts with 100 FIRST Choice Credits for 2013 and will receive 100 MORE Credits at Kickoff

[Phyrxes]

I believe that is a new official statement as of this morning, everybody have their shopping list ready?

[bhsrobotics1671]

Is anyone seeing their password in TIMS yet?

[lynca]

Is anyone seeing their password in TIMS yet?

I don't see ours yet.

I'm worried that our TIMS status is not officially paid, so we might not get a password until we are officially paid. So we might just have to wait out the sponsor payment cycle.

[waitwhat?]

Whenever someone sees that they have recieved your password, would you mind jsut posting a quick reply on here? Might help with some of the confusion, that is assuming they give the passwords out prior to noon...:confused:

[rees2001]

Is anyone seeing their password in TIMS yet?

I can't even get into TIMS right now. As of 8AM EST the code was not there.

Your team's Main and Alternate contacts will have access to your team's FIRST Choice password in your team's TIMS account around 12pm EST, December 10th. If this is an issue please contact frcteams@usfirst.org"

I sense TIMS is going to get overloaded "around" 12pm EST.

[slijin]

Is this new today? I don't remember seeing it before.

I don't remember seeing it before either. I got a followup email from Jerry Budd at 9:47AM with that notice in response to my email (which Andy had already replied to, as I mentioned above).

T minus 45.

[McGurky]

Whenever someone sees that they have recieved your password, would you mind jsut posting a quick reply on here? Might help with some of the confusion, that is assuming they give the passwords out prior to noon...:confused:

It looks like they will be giving out the passwords right at noon, as Andymark's First Choice site is already ready to log in to. I wish they could have done it the other way around, giving the passwords out early, and opening up to log in at 12:00 EST. This way it gives teams whose purchasers and main/alternate contacts are different people time to exchange the password prior to the system opening up.

Besides this, I am extremely happy with the overall process

[Gary Dillard]

I received an email last week from Kyrie Kowalik, Team Grants Coordinator at FIRST in regards to my question about our being able to order FIRST Choice and PDV parts today if we still show unpaid but have a PO for a grant in the system. I was told we will be all set to order the parts, so hopefully we'll all be OK. (we'll find out soon enough I guess)

[McGurky]

I received an email last week from Kyrie Kowalik, Team Grants Coordinator at FIRST in regards to my question about our being able to order FIRST Choice and PDV parts today if we still show unpaid but have a PO for a grant in the system. I was told we will be all set to order the parts, so hopefully we'll all be OK. (we'll find out soon enough I guess)

Make sure you team number is available to chose from in AndyMark. http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm

When I check, you look good to go from AndyMarks side, however is still possible that you may not get your password in TIMS.

[CalTran]

I'm still curious as to who's going to get the single Cypress IO module...

[smcmahon]

Weird... I don't see 2656 on that dropdown list? What does that mean for us?

[McGurky]

Weird... I don't see 2656 on that dropdown list? What does that mean for us?

Email or call 1-800-US1-TEAM, frcteams@usfirst.org immediately!

[smcmahon]

On it!

[Mark McLeod]

Password is posted on TIMS.

Doesn't work for me though.

[smcmahon]

Well, apparently our check didn't arrive at FIRST yet for the balance owed on our FRC bill for Pittsburgh. We mailed the check last Tuesday. They said they won't give us the password until the balance is paid off...

EDIT: Now they're claiming we DID pay, but the password hasn't been posted in TIMS. Of course, it sounds like people that do have the password aren't much better off right now.

[sanddrag]

Password is posted on TIMS.

Doesn't work for me though.Me Neither.

[AdamHeard]

Password is posted on TIMS.

Doesn't work for me though.

Me either!

[Joey Milia]

have the password but log in doesn't work

[Doug G]

Nope, no luck with us either... Something is amiss!

[rees2001]

Me either!

Same here!

[Meredith Novak]

Not working for 16 either.

[JohnBoucher]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Nemo]

My password also does not work.

[David Brinza]

Password does not work. Tried upper/lower case. Fail!

[CalTran]

Worked for me just fine? This is odd.

[waitwhat?]

not working for us either. Just got off the phone with FIRST and they said they would give me a call back...

[mrwright]

Our password worked and we just placed our order!

[McGurky]

Worked fine for us. This is interesting...

Have you guys contacted support through andymark or first? EDIT: I saw some of you have now.

[AdamHeard]

That's just awesome that some people are in, and pw's are working for some teams....

[Mr. Van]

I've called FIRST -

They're not sure what's wrong yet.

Right with you, Adam.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[mwibbels]

2122's order went through.

Hope that it starts working for you guys!

Mark

[razorgator]

Worked for 3612.

[MechEng83]

PW worked and parts ordered. Whew!
I copied and pasted directly from TIMS. Make sure you use the FIRST Choice Password, as there are other PDV codes on there too.

Good luck to everyone else.

[rees2001]

Worked for me just fine? This is odd.

Just spoke with FIRST Support, it is on AM end, check back in 10 minutes?

[scottandme]

Worked for me, in and out. First time I copied the code from TIMS it didn't take, second time it worked. Items are slowly reducing in quantity, so others are getting in.

[sanddrag]

I don't mean to be impatient, but this is very not cool, yet so typical. Aside from the fact that we're not getting a fair shot at the goods, some of us are sitting here at on the clock at work doing this, and we need to get on with our day. I love the concept, but so far am disappointed in the execution.

[Jared Russell]

Watching the stock of Talons drop in real time is pretty impressive.

[CalTran]

GOod luck to those teams, and it's really unfortunate that teams are having difficulty to get in to FIRST Choice, especially since it looks like some pretty high class teams are having difficulty.

[ehochstein]

3081 reporting in. Able to log in and select items for purchase.

[SteveGarward]

I was having trouble, but just got in. Keep trying?

[robodude03]

Also having issues with logging in... this is disappointing.

[smistthegreat]

Just from this sample size, it looks like every team that can't get in is numbered under 1000. Not sure if coincidence or not, but definitely curious.

[Jared Russell]

Just from this sample size, it looks like every team that can't get in is numbered under 1000. Not sure if coincidence or not, but definitely curious.

Username in one system is XXX, in the other it is 0XXX?

[Trying to Help]

1729 able to login and get items. We did get a payment "error occurred" during the checkout process but a quick reload did the job.

[Jared Russell]

Classmates sold out, under 100 Talons left. Hopefully teams are able to get in :(

[CalTran]

Classmates sold out, under 100 Talons left. Hopefully teams are able to get in :(

Down to ~50 now. Who got the Cypress IO Module? Hope everyone's gotten in now.

[AdamHeard]

We are able to get in and order what we wanted.

I hope other teams aren't seriously affected by this!

[Kevin Sevcik]

57 can't get in, according to our team lead. Which is REALLY annoying. I was hoping for some of those talons or a classmate. Or, you know, anything.

[scottandme]

Going to be slim pickings for the next 100 credits assuming they don't re-stock items. Classmate, encoders, and digital sidecar are all OOS. Talons will be in a few seconds.

Edit: Talons OOS at 12:18 PM EST

[Justin Montois]

Classmates sold out, under 100 Talons left. Hopefully teams are able to get in :(

Now Talons are gone. That was fast..

[ehochstein]

Talon is oos. Digital sidecar as well.

[shewejff]

As someone else mentioned, the password didn't work when I copied and pasted. I had to physically type it in. Go go go.

[bhsrobotics1671]

I was successful with no issues. Got my order submitted with other products as well and used some of our PDV

[CalTran]

Now Talons are gone. That was fast..

20 mins and they all left. Anyone remember how many they started out with? It'd be interesting to figure out how many Talons/minute were selected. IIRC it was a fairly high number

[Nemo]

After not working initially, mine started working about 10 minutes in.

[Wetzel]

I was able to get in fine, once I realized that one letter near the end was capitalized and the rest were lowercase.

talons, crio, sensors. :D

Wetzel

[Meredith Novak]

FRC 16 just got in a our order was placed okay.

[Mark McLeod]

20 mins and they all left. Anyone remember how many they started out with? It'd be interesting to figure out how many Talons/minute were selected. IIRC it was a fairly high number

478 to start with.

Guess I'll try logging in tomorrow :rolleyes:
Robot parts are overrated anyhow...

[Jared Russell]

20 mins and they all left. Anyone remember how many they started out with? It'd be interesting to figure out how many Talons/minute were selected. IIRC it was a fairly high number

Sitting on the page hitting F5 I was seeing >50 Talons per minute fly off the shelf by 12:10.

[agartner01]

I'm extremely happy the servers held up. 4174 order completed!

[dcarr]

I'm surprised that cRIOs didn't go out of stock (yet), they seem like one of the better $/credit values on there.

[Kevin Sevcik]

So...... Who wants to take odds on FIRST calling a mulligan on FIRST Choice, cancelling everyone's orders, and trying again next week?

[CalTran]

478 to start with.

Guess I'll try logging in tomorrow :rolleyes:

~26.5 Talons were sold per minute.

[BrendanRadabaug]

got ours in and ordered in under one minute. 12:01 exactly. :eek:

[sanddrag]

This was almost as intense as buying an HP Touchpad during the firesale.

Had 10 Talons and a Classmate in the cart, went to check out, only offered me one Talon, and no Classmate. Went back to add more Talons, it let me, went to check out, zero.

Looks like 20 video cards for me. :D

[Tom Line]

So...... Who wants to take odds on FIRST calling a mulligan on FIRST Choice, cancelling everyone's orders, and trying again next week?

Perhaps thats what the RickRoll hint meant..... ;)

Unbelievable prices - the cRio and Right Angle Drill were simply ridiculous. As much as I wanted to I couldn't justify the right angle drill - we already have one and I bet other teams need them more.

I restrained myself and only grabbed one cRIO too. 69 points left just in case game pieces pop up at a reasonable price.

Edit: Are they restocking? I just logged in and refreshed and 410 talons are showing as back in stock...I was able to add 10 to my cart without a problem.

Edit2: There's the FIRST choice I know and love - not getting any response now from the web page... perhaps everyone waited till 12:30 to log in.

[dcarr]

Perhaps thats what the RickRoll hint meant..... ;)

Unbelievable prices - the cRio and Right Angle Drill were simply ridiculous. As much as I wanted to I couldn't justify the right angle drill - we already have one and I bet other teams need them more.

I restrained myself and only grabbed one cRIO too. 69 points left just in case game pieces pop up at a reasonable price. Otherwise I'll see if our head mentor minds me using more points to buy us another 2 cRIOS!

Wasn't there a max of one cRIO?
Certainly a great deal - too bad the modules are ridiculously expensive from NI, and I can't find them elsewhere.

[Gary Dillard]

Hmmmmm...... mine worked fine. Did you copy from TIMS and paste it into FIRST Choice?

We got a cRIO, Classmate, Camera, 2 snow blower motors, 2 of each of the gearmotors, and a window lift assembly set. Looks like over $1000 worth of stuff.

[AllenGregoryIV]

It looks like they just restocked Talons if my display is correct. Qty 420 as of writing this.

[AdamHeard]

So...... Who wants to take odds on FIRST calling a mulligan on FIRST Choice, cancelling everyone's orders, and trying again next week?

I would be very surprised if they did this; Andymark would have to refund hundreds of credit card orders.

[lemiant]

Do my eyes deceive me, or have they added more talons?

[Wetzel]

Perhaps thats what the RickRoll hint meant..... ;)

Unbelievable prices - the cRio and Right Angle Drill were simply ridiculous. As much as I wanted to I couldn't justify the right angle drill - we already have one and I bet other teams need them more.

I restrained myself and only grabbed one cRIO too. 69 points left just in case game pieces pop up at a reasonable price. Otherwise I'll see if our head mentor minds me using more points to buy us another 2 cRIOS!
Limit 1 cRIO per team and don't forget you will get an additional 100 points at kickoff. We grabbed some of the sensors with lower quantities. You never know when having a pair of photo-switches will come in handy.


Wetzel

[Justin Montois]

I restrained myself and only grabbed one cRIO too...

We appreciate the restraint, but you were allowed only 1 ;)

[Gary Dillard]

20 mins and they all left. Anyone remember how many they started out with? It'd be interesting to figure out how many Talons/minute were selected. IIRC it was a fairly high number

There were 480 Talons at the start

[McGurky]

Talons back in stock....

classmates back in stock as well! go get em everyone!

And AndyMark has shipped out 1716's order already! Great turnaround over there!

[Ryan Morin]

Classmates are back in stock too.

[BrendanRadabaug]

Classmate netbooks are back 54 more right now

[lemiant]

There goes "will not restock". I wonder why? I feel bad for anyone who ordered during the temporary shortage.

[BrendanRadabaug]

Classmate netbooks are back 54 more right now

Dang it Ryan....

[Tom Line]

We appreciate the restraint, but you were allowed only 1 ;)

I noticed that as I was browsing more slowly now. I was in a bit of a hurry the first time through :D

[David Brinza]

When I placed our initial order, the Talons were sold out before I could checkout.

I just placed a second order: for 4 Talons. It was accepted!

BTW, I couldn't log-in until ~9:20a PT, just kept trying and trying...

[JohnBoucher]

That was disappointing at best.


Password did not work
Got booted off - lost cart


Smile, Smile, Smile

[Tom Line]

Limit 1 cRIO per team and don't forget you will get an additional 100 points at kickoff. We grabbed some of the sensors with lower quantities. You never know when having a pair of photo-switches will come in handy.


Wetzel

Wetzel, where did you read that we get another 100 points? I read through the info on Andy Mark's page here:

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-s/245.htm

I didn't see it there.

[MechEng83]

Just got a notice my team's order shipped. AndyMark is efficient on the hardware end!

[seg9585]

A spare cRio, another netbook, 3 Talons, the Window motor lift assembly set, 2 batteries, and a couple sensors. Did pretty good this year I think :D

Do we really get an additional 100 credits in kickoff day? Can someone confirm this?

[dcarr]

A spare cRio, another netbook, 3 Talons, the Window motor lift assembly set, 2 batteries, and a couple sensors. Did pretty good this year I think :D

Do we really get an additional 100 credits in kickoff day? Can someone confirm this?

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Opening-and-FRC-Manual-Apps

[Trying to Help]

Classmate netbooks are back 54 more right now

We got one on a second round of ordering too!

[Tom Line]

Batteries just came back in stock.

Someone's being sneaky over at AndyMark and metering things out =).

[AllenGregoryIV]

It looked like everything restocked batteries, classmates, talons, sidecars, etc. This could be very bad if that wasn't supposed to happen.

[Gary Dillard]

Wetzel, where did you read that we get another 100 points? I read through the info on Andy Mark's page here:

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-s/245.htm

I didn't see it there.

Also here, in addition to David's link on the FIRST page (third bullet in blue)

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm

[seg9585]

Thanks for the link.

Wow, registration is very valuable this year it appears! I guess there will be more items added that are game-specific.

Looking forward to "FIRST Choice Ordering Party: Round 2" at kickoff.

[sanddrag]

It looked like everything restocked batteries, classmates, talons, sidecars, etc. This could be very bad if that wasn't supposed to happen. So now I'm sitting here with 20 video cards and no more credits, and if I waited I could have a Classmate and some Talons? Oh well. I'm fine with it.

[JohnChristensen]

It seems people were have a problem with logging in, but did anyone have an issue with a very high shipping fee? The system tried to charge me $2,968.93 US for shipping to Duluth, MN.

[Nemo]

Regardless of this minor snafu, FIRST Choice is still a really good thing. It's definitely something that can be refined as time goes. Probably next year they should give us the log on info a couple of weeks early and then change everybody's credits from 0 to 100 when they want to go live.

At least TIMS didn't explode. That's what I figured would happen at 12:00 EST.

[team4384]

Too bad, our team payment is not complete (waiting for grant?) so we are not eligible for ordering today.

Happy shopping and good luck to you guys!

[Mark McLeod]

I finally got granted access at 12:25

Had to place two separate orders, because the Classmate stock went away then returned.

No real trouble, though the database did have an inorecct zip code for me and rejected my credit card. Took me a frantic moment or two to figure out what was wrong.

[Andy A.]

Batteries just came back in stock.

Someone's being sneaky over at AndyMark and metering things out =).

Either a lot of orders were somehow cancelled or otherwise got a little screwy, and previously ordered items got put back into stock or AM was sneaky and metered stuff out for whatever reason (help out teams that couldn't log in right away?).

Given the technical issues that habitually hound these sort of FIRST 'free for all' web events, I would assume that it was just another one of those hiccups.

[Mr. Van]

It looked like everything restocked batteries, classmates, talons, sidecars, etc. This could be very bad if that wasn't supposed to happen.

My guess is that the amazing people at AM realized that many teams were unable to get logged in and they restocked some of the items that had been sold out.

We got in late (9:30, and most of what we were looking for was gone, but upon a second attempt, the batteries, digital sidecar and some other stuff were restocked... Both orders seem to have gone through OK.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[Gary Dillard]

It seems people were have a problem with logging in, but did anyone have an issue with a very high shipping fee? The system tried to charge me $2,968.93 US for shipping to Duluth, MN.

Mine hung up trying to calculate shipping, and since it showed zero dollars it didn't ask for payment info. I ended up submitting it and emailing them to use my credit card on file.

[TD78]

I finally was able to log in after 15 minutes. Loaded my cart, but lost time logging in (oops), and the batteries and Talons I had went away. Got some other great stuff, but was a little disappointed to hear they were back in stock after placing my order. Maybe there will be some hanging around soon after Kickoff!

-Tom

[AdamHeard]

So now I'm sitting here with 20 video cards and no more credits, and if I waited I could have a Classmate and some Talons? Oh well. I'm fine with it.

lol..... Can I have one?

[Bob Steele]

Does anyone know how the extra $450 in credit will work if you chose to not take the kitbot?
It may be there somewhere but I missed it..

It wasn't included in the 100 points was it?

[dcarr]

Looks like 20 video cards for me. :D

With that many CUDA cores, you can probably crack the manual PDF before kickoff! :P

Disclaimer: that would be highly unethical. Just putting this here so people know I'm not crazy.

[bhsrobotics1671]

Does anyone know how the extra $450 in credit will work if you chose to not take the kitbot?
It may be there somewhere but I missed it..

It wasn't included in the 100 points was it?

There is a PDV voucher number in TIMS, same area that you got your FIRST Choice Password. You have to click a link at the bottom of the checkout page to show the field to enter your "Gift Certificate"

[ebmonon36]

Does anyone know how the extra $450 in credit will work if you chose to not take the kitbot?
It may be there somewhere but I missed it..

It wasn't included in the 100 points was it?

You should get another voucher code on TIMS according to the KOP website:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2013-kit-of-parts

Eric

[Kevin Sevcik]

Well drat. Put our order in and I skipped the Talons and classmate because of the reports on here that they weren't in stock. I'd rather have had a spare classmate than another battery, or a couple of Talons, but oh well. For the record, 57 couldn't log in until 12:30 EST.

[M. Mellott]

Thank you CD community!!

I was coming on here to go off on the whole system of having things ripped out my cart multiple times during checkout, and I read your posts that they were re-stocking! I got back in and got a Sidecar, right-angle drill, and 3 Talons!

Love this site even more than before! :D

[skimoose]

You should get another voucher code on TIMS according to the KOP website:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2013-kit-of-parts

Eric

Yup. Banebots, AndyMark, IFI, and Inventables PDV codes are in the same right side bar just below the FIRST Choice password.

FIRST Choice, PDVs, VEXpro launch... all I need for the holidays now is a game hint or two!

[David Brinza]

It seems people were have a problem with logging in, but did anyone have an issue with a very high shipping fee? The system tried to charge me $2,968.93 US for shipping to Duluth, MN.

I was once told that Duluth only has departing flights this time of year.;)

I hope this got resolved!!

[Gregor]

Managed to get 11 Talons.

[IndySam]

All done.
8 Talons
2 Pneumatic valves
Video Card
and some pneumatic fittings.

Overall very happy boy here at The Digital Goats.

[Teamcodeorange]

Well, 3476 was able to get on at 12:02 after I realized that you have to manually type in the password. We scored: 1 cRIO, 2 GTX 560s, 2 Classmates (to drive robots at our demos), 2 Axis Cameras, 2 Talons, multimeter, 2 solenoid valves, and a broken ribbon cable. A pretty good haul! Worth about $1,750, and we used up all of our credits. I kinda wish I got the angle drill though.

I think it's great that AndyMark does this year after year! Thank you! :D

Sorry to all the teams that couldn't get in. :(

[Mark McLeod]

My credits aren't adding up right.
Anyone else notice a discrepancy?

We show more credits than we're entitled to.
It seems to be due to the two orders I placed. The second order isn't being debited from the credits used, while the third order is credited properly.

Be careful with your subsequent orders, the credits may be invalid.

[JohnChristensen]

I was once told that Duluth only has departing flights this time of year.;)

I hope this got resolved!!

AndyMark was very helpful and everything is fine now.

On the other note, if this city gets anything less than 20 inches of snow in a day we still have school... ;) We got 8 inches yesterday, my street is not plowed, and the kids (and myself) are in school. <sarcasm> In Cali, however, I have heard if the sky even drops a trace of snow the world stops... ;) </sarcasm>

[Jared Russell]

My credits aren't adding up right.
Anyone else notice a discrepancy?

We show more credits than we're entitled to.
It seems to be due to the two orders I placed. The second order isn't being debited from the credits used, while the third order is credited properly.

Be careful with your subsequent orders, the credits may be invalid.

We might be having a similar issue. But in our case it looks like credits were charged but items (Talons) were not successfully ordered.

I'm sure the folks at AndyMark will get it straightened out, and hopefully we will be able to get the items we would like.

[Saberbot]

Are we locked out right now? The page says they are having problems and there's no box for the password.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Are we locked out right now? The page says they are having problems and there's no box for the password.

I see the same thing. I'm guessing it has something to do with the restocking since they explicitly said before that items wouldn't reappear once they were out of stock.

[maddoctor90]

First bullet on login page: http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-s/273.htm

"We are currently having issues, please email firstchoice@andymark.com, all orders are suspended for the time being."

[Cal578]

We were one of the 3-digit teams that couldn't login right away. I finally got in about 12:10, and placed two orders. The changing stock numbers prevented me from getting Talons (they appeared to be back in stock after my orders were done).

I'm also having an issue with credit counting. I ordered 84 credits worth, and the system shows I have 2 credits left. I sent an email, and Jerry Budd is already looking into it. They must be crazy busy, so I'm grateful for any attention we get.

[rees2001]

I have a bad feeling about this. It took what seemed like forever to get the password to work. Then I filled up my cart, got most of what I wanted, when to checkout and it booted me out. Restart chrome, bring up last session, 3 min's later, nothing. Start again, get the stuff I want (mostly) go to cart and now everything is doubled. Fix it, and the batteries disappear, out of stock, but the Talons showed back up? Took what I could get and didn't use all my credits. Figure a few extra for after kickoff couldn't hurt. I feel like we may be doing this all over again in a week.

[ParkerF]

We've been told that all of the items that appeared to be re-stocked weren't actually re-stocked. It seems their system began doing things that were not intended. If you placed an order for these 're-stocked' items, I would expect it to be null.

-Parker

[JohnBoucher]

Were they having a leading zero issue? Only 3 digit teams affected?

[dcarr]

Are we to assume that orders placed before the "re-stocks" started to happen are going to be okay? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[seg9585]

Regarding the shipping costs unable to calculate:

I called AndyMark, and was told that the "Window motor lift assembly set" was set as 999 lbs in their database. As a result, shipping costs couldn't be calculated (since my order was >1000 lbs).

After speaking to their friendly shipping department, my order was fixed with correct shipping costs (came out to ~$65 with the 2 batteries I ordered, and all the other things).

[Gary Dillard]

Regarding the shipping costs unable to calculate:

I called AndyMark, and was told that the "Window motor lift assembly set" was set as 999 lbs in their database. As a result, shipping costs couldn't be calculated (since my order was >1000 lbs).

Maybe they come still attached to the car

[rsisk]

I have a bad feeling about this. It took what seemed like forever to get the password to work. Then I filled up my cart, got most of what I wanted, when to checkout and it booted me out. Restart chrome, bring up last session, 3 min's later, nothing. Start again, get the stuff I want (mostly) go to cart and now everything is doubled. Fix it, and the batteries disappear, out of stock, but the Talons showed back up? Took what I could get and didn't use all my credits. Figure a few extra for after kickoff couldn't hurt. I feel like we may be doing this all over again in a week.

Interesting, something was making my CHROME browser crash this morning as well.

[dcarr]

Interesting, something was making my CHROME browser crash this morning as well.

Wow, I was experiencing major Chrome crashing as well and switched to Firefox. Never would have guessed that their site was doing it. Apparently Chrome's sandbox isn't perfect...

[BigJ]

Interesting, something was making my CHROME browser crash this morning as well.

Gmail was down for a time this morning and many Chrome users reported repeated crashing.

Apparently Chrome's sandbox isn't perfect...

People win lots of money for breaking Chrome's sandbox :) http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/googles-chrome-browser-on-friday/

[dcarr]

Gmail was down for a time this morning and many Chrome users reported repeated crashing.

Guess they're not at fault. Shucks. I was going to blame AndyMark for the fiscal cliff and the broken cord on my headphones too :P

[AlexD744]

Any word on when FIRST Choice will re-open and if there will be any re-stocking of items whether now or at kickoff? Our team experienced a lot of trouble as well. Also, is there any official confirmation that the password trouble was confined to <4 digit teams?

[maddoctor90]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue

[Nemo]

Any word on when FIRST Choice will re-open and if there will be any re-stocking of items whether now or at kickoff? Our team experienced a lot of trouble as well. Also, is there any official confirmation that the password trouble was confined to <4 digit teams?

I haven't received any email blasts. FRC Blog (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog) has a short blurb saying that it will be down until they fix the problems. The AndyMark website has the same message as before.

They are probably figuring out how to deal with the orders in excess of the actual physical inventory for the parts that got magically restocked. They won't be able to come up with any tidy solutions to go back and fix that, unfortunately.

[bhsrobotics1671]

I had no issues with Chrome, but I was also done at 12:06, so maybe there were things later causing issues.

[Ed Sparks]

Were they having a leading zero issue? Only 3 digit teams affected?

Not so ........ I couldn't get in for what seemed like an eternity (FRC-34). My order crashed twice at checkout, wound up missing what I really needed ...... a classmate(we're still using the origional issue classmate). Dang .......

Still love AndyMark ........ even though this kind of thing makes my hair turn gray.

[McGurky]

I had no issues with Chrome, but I was also done at 12:06, so maybe there were things later causing issues.

I had no issues with chrome, however a period from 11:45-11:59 EST I had no connection with gmail, and it appeared their servers where down. I was relying on it to get the password from our teams TIMS contact to order the parts. Thankfully it reloaded at 12:00 right on cue! (Only to be followed by magical disappearance of cart items and changing of information with the AndyMark cart)

[Ed Sparks]

Hmmmm ....... Inventables seems to be confused about me using a PDV this year.

[JB987]

Tried to go back into FIRST Choice and noticed that the Log-in part of the main page is missing...seems AndyMark shut things down to de-bugg?

[dcarr]

Tried to go back into FIRST Choice and noticed that the Log-in part of the main page is missing...seems AndyMark shut things down to de-bugg?

Yes indeed

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue-Part-II

[McGurky]

Yes indeed

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue-Part-II

I think FIRST and AM are going about this the right way. It is a tough call to make.

Thank You!

[WarehouseCrew]

Can anyone give me an idea of how many points items cost (eg. cRIO, Classmate, Talon, other "good" stuff) on the FIRST Choice?

I've tried both Chrome and IE and can see the items in FIRST Choice, but not their "costs." I was unable to log in today and would like to have a shopping list based upon the "cost" of the items.

Thanks.

[dcarr]

Can anyone give me an idea of how many points items cost (eg. cRIO, Classmate, Talon, other "good" stuff) on the FIRST Choice?

I've tried both Chrome and IE and can see the items in FIRST Choice, but not their "costs." I was unable to log in today and would like to have a shopping list based upon the "cost" of the items.

Thanks.

These are the items I know for sure:


Batteries - 10
Air tank - 6
cRIO - 9
Battery charger - 10
Compressor - 8
Sidecar - 10
Gyro - 7
Air pressure switch - 6
Air Regulator - 6
CIM - 8
Pressure gauge - 6
Lithin grease - 7
All graphics cards - 5
Classmate - 10


Did anyone save a copy of the page? I didn't think to do that.

[David Brinza]

It's a little more complicated than just telling the more senior teams who were locked-out for the first 20 minutes "too bad."

The items that went out-of-stock quickly (but magically appeared to be restocked), were high-value items targeted by teams who planned for what they would need. The log-in issue was not the fault of those with team number <1000.

Wiping the slate clean and starting over is probably not practical. But how else will all of the teams get equal opportunity to these items?

[WarehouseCrew]

Thanks.

When I sort FIRST Choice "Price: High to Low" is shows big ticket items like "assorted terminal bag" (FC13-139) and "ethernet cross over cable" (FC13-126) in the top 10 items displayed!

Still no points displayed. Can anyone see FIRST Choice points now (6 pm CST)? I will download Firefox if that is the solution.

I hope they have it fixed (and some remaining stock) tomorrow.

Thanks.

[CalTran]

Thanks.

When I sort FIRST Choice "Price: High to Low" is shows big ticket items like "assorted terminal bag" (FC13-139) and "ethernet cross over cable" (FC13-126) in the top 10 items displayed!

I don't think it sorts very well because the items don't technically have a numerical value. They, for purposes of FIRST Choice, have their prices set to $0.00.

[dcarr]

Thanks.

When I sort FIRST Choice "Price: High to Low" is shows big ticket items like "assorted terminal bag" (FC13-139) and "ethernet cross over cable" (FC13-126) in the top 10 items displayed!

Still no points displayed. Can anyone see FIRST Choice points now (6 pm CST)? I will download Firefox if that is the solution.

I hope they have it fixed (and some remaining stock) tomorrow.

Thanks.

I don't believe points will be visible until the login system is re-enabled tomorrow.

[Mark McLeod]

Can anyone give me an idea of how many points items cost (eg. cRIO, Classmate, Talon, other "good" stuff) on the FIRST Choice?


Here's a captured list from before FIRST Choice opened and another list from Tuesday afternoon, after 2nd opening day.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Here's a captured list.

Mark, I have no idea how you manage to have all the information all the time. Sometimes I think it's magic, Thank You.

[Mark McLeod]

Mark, I have no idea how you manage to have all the information all the time. Sometimes I think it's magic, Thank You.
My wife simply claims I spend too much time on the computer.

[CalTran]

Mark, I have no idea how you manage to have all the information all the time. Sometimes I think it's magic, Thank You.

This is beyond magic. I don't even know how to describe everything that he seems to know or find out about. I don't think we thank him enough for his vast encyclopedia of knowledge.

[WarehouseCrew]

What strategy would work best assuming some items are out of stock and others may run out of stock shortly after AndyMark comes back on line?

For example, it you want a high demand item (eg. cRio, Talon, etc.) would it make sense to pick a few items and check out (eg. before using all your credits) to insure that you get the items before they are out of stock?

It doesn't sound like gracious professionalism, but we came late to the party last year and didn't get any of the items we had wanted (eg. used up credits on items left over from initial rush). Tried to avoid that this year, but couldn't get logged in.

[maddoctor90]

I personally think that the whole FIRST Choice thing should be done differently. It does not seem very gracious and professional like to have all the teams fighting against each other to grab the best deal and leave the others teams who were to slow with nothing. There are many teams this year struggling to find the funds for their team that really could use these items more than the more veteran and well off teams. I feel like somehow FIRST should have requested that teams who feel like they are better off to wait a day before ordering to allow for teams that really need the items have the first go. The proposed idea may not work as well as I would like to think, but I feel like the FIRST community is better than this. At minimum, there should have been more quantity limits on items so the "better items" would have been spread out among the teams better.

[Patrick Flynn]

I think that a possible way to improve this process would be to split the stock of FIRST choice products into thirds or even more. Have the first third of teams be allowed into first choice at 10-am and then close at 11:50-am, the second set of items for the second third of teams would be open 12-1:50 and so on. After all the divisions of teams had received their allowed time, the store could open back up and everyone could pick over the left over items.
All the teams would initially have access to the same number of parts, and after the whole process you would still be allowed to chose an item that all of the teams from a different ordering block didn't want.

[CoachSally]

100 points are supposed to be awarded Dec. 10 with another 100 after Kick Off.

[Nemo]

I personally think that the whole FIRST Choice thing should be done differently. It does not seem very gracious and professional like to have all the teams fighting against each other to grab the best deal and leave the others teams who were to slow with nothing. There are many teams this year struggling to find the funds for their team that really could use these items more than the more veteran and well off teams. I feel like somehow FIRST should have requested that teams who feel like they are better off to wait a day before ordering to allow for teams that really need the items have the first go. The proposed idea may not work as well as I would like to think, but I feel like the FIRST community is better than this. At minimum, there should have been more quantity limits on items so the "better items" would have been spread out among the teams better.

A better solution would be to adjust all of the point values to more accurately reflect the relative value of each item. A lot of the more prosaic items would become attractive at 1-3 points. Make Talons (a $60 item that is guaranteed to be useful for absolutely any robot) cost more FIRST points until it's no longer an obvious choice. Then each team can decide if they want to pay a premium for parts that are guaranteed to be useful (notice that CIMs and batteries actually were priced in this way), or if they want to go after a higher potential value.

FIRST and AndyMark could collect some survey data in advance of next year's FIRST Choice to help them figure out what parts the teams are mostly likely to go after and how much they're worth to everybody.

[DonRotolo]

Perhaps everyone places a proposed order over a few days' time, and then the orders get filled at random, so it becomes more the luck of the draw for the high-demand items rather than who has the skill to log in and place an order fastest.

Anything high-demand might work this way, along with Nemo's idea to use price to help moderate demand. Low-demand/high-inventory stuff could be handled separately if necessary.

Dunno, there's just got to me a better way. I wonder if there's a community of thinkers smart enough to come up with one?? :rolleyes:

[Trying to Help]

I don't believe points will be visible until the login system is re-enabled tomorrow.

Has anyone else noticed that you can login now? I logged in to FIRST Choice, checked our remaining points balance, checked the orders status and *then* read the FRC Blog post about it opening up tomorrow.

Our points balance hasn't been corrected but I think I could still place an order tonight.

[Trying to Help]

For example, it you want a high demand item (eg. cRio, Talon, etc.) would it make sense to pick a few items and check out (eg. before using all your credits) to insure that you get the items before they are out of stock?


That is exactly what we did. We're one of those teams that struggled this fall with funding and we had specifically picked high value to us but lightweight parts for our initial order.

And I agree with everyone, there's got to be a better way of organizing this. At least rent some Rackspace or Amazon cloud time on both the usfirst.org and andymark.com sites for a couple hours! And surely there's some FIRST mentor somewhere that would be able to give some database design help.

[agartner01]

And I agree with everyone, there's got to be a better way of organizing this. At least rent some Rackspace or Amazon cloud time on both the usfirst.org and andymark.com sites for a couple hours! And surely there's some FIRST mentor somewhere that would be able to give some database design help.

Also, add a link to andymark from inside TIMES that automatically logs you in so we don't have to worry about the password, which I had to try several times until it would work.

[Steve Ketron]

Is the site still down. I see the team number/login but I am only able to select teams 4998 and 4999. I just wanted to know if this is an issue for me or are others seeing the same thing? time right now is Tuesday 7:41 am EST

[Wetzel]

Is the site still down. I see the team number/login but I am only able to select teams 4998 and 4999. I just wanted to know if this is an issue for me or are others seeing the same thing? time right now is Tuesday 7:41 am EST

From the FRC Blog: (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-FIRST-Choice-Issue-Part-II)
FIRST Choice will reopen at Noon EST, Tuesday, 12/11.

Wetzel

[Mark McLeod]

Done (the second time).

[IndySam]

Done (the second time).

Me too!

[Kevin Sevcik]

Ditto ditto. Reserving some points for the post kickoff rush, and maybe to sneak in one or two of those Igus turntable bearings when they come in stock on the 17th. On the off chance they'll be useful in the future.

[Siri]

Do we know what the post-kickoff FIRST Choice will look like? We're currently sitting with a bunch of our refunded credits, staring at a list of things we really don't need (in fact, need even less than most of the original KoP stuff...) Will the post-kickoff offerings be solely game-related, or might there be more electronics, etc?

On the bright side, at least log in worked this time and we didn't get repeatedly kicked off the system.

[Jon Stratis]

Done here as well. I didn't see any issues this time around.

[Trying to Help]

Kudos to the folks at AndyMark!

Our points for out-of-stock items are refunded, one of our orders has shipped and the remaining parts are listed as processing. I received an explanation email from Andy Baker at 11 o'clock last night. Even though things did go sideways yesterday, I have a feeling that they put in a tremendous amount of time and effort over the past 24 hours to make things better and start getting parts out to teams.

[Jared Russell]

Is there any possibility at all that the FIRST Choice inventory gets replenished? Thinking at this point we'll just save our credits and hope something valuable is available later.

[Wendy Holladay]

Is there any possibility at all that the FIRST Choice inventory gets replenished? Thinking at this point we'll just save our credits and hope something valuable is available later.

i agree, this hasn't been a very positive experience. i can understand running our of talons, i just bought them, but battery chargers? if items go this quickly, there should be some mechanism for restock.

[JB987]

Round 2...checkout messed up during shipping calculation as recalculating shipping clock got stuck and I had to call AndyMark. Hopefully we get the camera that was part of our re-order today after losing 2 Talons yesterday to glitch. FIRST Choice shows points deducted for camera but it isn't in invoice, it shows out of stock now too. Hoping Jerry grabbed one as he said he would do (when there were still over 50 as we talked) and added it to our shipment. It would sure make for a nice Christmas!

Edit: Just received confirmation email from Jerry that he was able to help with camera. Now if they can just make sure we don't get charged shipping for re-orders given that yesterday's order got shipped already...

[Gary Dillard]

Thinking at this point we'll just save our credits and hope something valuable is available later.

We're currently sitting with a bunch of our refunded credits, staring at a list of things we really don't need (in fact, need even less than most of the original KoP stuff...)

Yeah, you can only get $1000 worth of AndyMark gearmotors for free with 96 credits at this point. That's a real shame.

[robodude03]

Is there any possibility at all that the FIRST Choice inventory gets replenished? Thinking at this point we'll just save our credits and hope something valuable is available later.

This is the approach we are taking now. We are hoping that inventory will get replenished at this point and hope that measures will be taken to account for the teams that were effected by the login bug.

[Clinton Bolinger]

We have already received our FIRSTChoice shipment from yesterday.

AndyMark, great turn around time on shipping.

Also the Talons come with a Fan and fan mounting screws.

-Clinton-

[Jared Russell]

Yeah, you can only get $1000 worth of AndyMark gearmotors for free with 96 credits at this point. That's a real shame.

Not the point. Value in this case = getting something we otherwise would have purchased using money. We don't know if we will use AM gear motors in our design this year, and even if we do I doubt we will use $1000 worth. That's the genius of FIRST Choice (seriously) - teams will have different value functions, so let them choose what is most valuable to them in order to distribute limited resources in a close-to-optimal way.

Unfortunately a combination of uneven credits-to-dollars ratios, a lack of quantity limits, and the presence of a few near-universal high dollar items meant that in a lot of cases the value functions were aligned. This is why there was such a run on Talons, Classmates, Axis cameras, Right angle drills - all high dollar items that teams know they will have a high chance of being able to use in 2013 regardless of design.

[Peyton Yeung]

Not the point. Value in this case = getting something we otherwise would have purchased using money. We don't know if we will use AM gear motors in our design this year, and even if we do I doubt we will use $1000 worth. That's the genius of FIRST Choice (seriously) - teams will have different value functions, so let them choose what is most valuable to them in order to distribute limited resources in a close-to-optimal way.

Unfortunately a combination of uneven credits-to-dollars ratios, a lack of quantity limits, and the presence of a few near-universal high dollar items meant that in a lot of cases the value functions were aligned. This is why there was such a run on Talons, Classmates, Axis cameras, Right angle drills - all high dollar items that teams know they will have a high chance of being able to use in 2013 regardless of design.

I feel this way too. We were hoping to get a classmate and maybe a few talons if we could but due to log in issues got in late and everything was already gone. This kinda hurts when I read the posts that people were able to log in on time and get multiple talons and classmates.

[maddoctor90]

Before FIRST Choice you would not have gotten anything more than what is still available to you right now on FIRST Choice. No motor controllers, Classmate PCs, cRIOs, Axis Cameras, drills, or a load of other things unless you were a rookie. We are still going to get a kit of parts at kickoff. With all of the items in the virtual kit and the physical kit we will get at the kickoff teams will have far more than they have ever received in the past. All that said, the system didn't work the way it was supposed to and the items on FIRST Choice were not distributed fairly. I am sure FIRST will look into making this a better experience in the future. Please look for ways of making the most out of the situation instead of complaining about it. It still is an improvement from past years no matter what you get from FIRST Choice.

[CalTran]

Also the Talons come with a Fan and fan mounting screws.

-Clinton-

Do they really now? Huh. We ordered some (read: purchased) and they didn't come with fans nor mounting screws. We're not too affected by this, as we have a plethora of Victor fans lying around.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Do they really now? Huh. We ordered some (read: purchased) and they didn't come with fans nor mounting screws. We're not too affected by this, as we have a plethora of Victor fans lying around.

This could could be a new addition since the release of the VexPro product line. We also purchased some Talons (in September) and we did not receive any Fan hardware.

Maybe someone from AndyMark can expand on this or note on the Talon product page (http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm) if all Talons will come with Fan hardware.

Also it looks like AndyMark is sold out of Talons all together. I'm curious if they will be back in stock of Kickoff.

-Clinton-

[Tom Line]

This could could be a new addition since the release of the VexPro product line. We also purchased some Talons (in September) and we did not receive any Fan hardware.

Maybe someone from AndyMark can expand on this or note on the Talon product page (http://www.andymark.com/Talon-p/am-2195.htm) if all Talons will come with Fan hardware.

Also it looks like AndyMark is sold out of Talons all together. I'm curious if they will be back in stock of Kickoff.

-Clinton-

I spoke with Mike a while ago and Talons purchased from Andy Mark are not supposed to come with fans (our retail order did not come with fans). However, they may have changed the package just for FIRST choice.

[Tom Line]

Before FIRST Choice you would not have gotten anything more than what is still available to you right now on FIRST Choice. No motor controllers, Classmate PCs, cRIOs, Axis Cameras, drills, or a load of other things unless you were a rookie. We are still going to get a kit of parts at kickoff. With all of the items in the virtual kit and the physical kit we will get at the kickoff teams will have far more than they have ever received in the past. All that said, the system didn't work the way it was supposed to and the items on FIRST Choice were not distributed fairly. I am sure FIRST will look into making this a better experience in the future. Please look for ways of making the most out of the situation instead of complaining about it. It still is an improvement from past years no matter what you get from FIRST Choice.

I would argue that veteran teams get substantially less "stuff" than they used to. However, I would also say that veteran teams who actually got what they wanted from FIRST Choice probably got a much better value than they used to, since (hypothetically) they were ordering things they'll use for the season, whereas in the past before they neutered the kit of parts, veteran teams got a lot of stuff that just sat on the shelf gathering dust. (How many linear slide parts and pillow blocks do we really need....).

All in all, I agree the new system will be an improvement when it works correctly and fairly for all teams. I bet we see a big improvement next year.

[Siri]

Before FIRST Choice you would not have gotten anything more than what is still available to you right now on FIRST Choice. No motor controllers, Classmate PCs, cRIOs, Axis Cameras, drills, or a load of other things unless you were a rookie. We are still going to get a kit of parts at kickoff. With all of the items in the virtual kit and the physical kit we will get at the kickoff teams will have far more than they have ever received in the past.Honestly, in addition needing to spend the extra money*, one of my issues with this in terms of KOP is that it has handicapped our final robot design by hundreds of dollars. We regularly design to our limit (in terms of the $3500 cap as well as time, energy and coffee), and this doesn't seem right. Why is a team that didn't get stuck in a glitch allowed to write off, say $660 in free Talons, when a team that didn't want that many but got kicked off/couldn't log in, not only has to pay for them but also has to make their final robot $550 cheaper? Aside from simply feeling cheated out of the system we were promised and having no use for $1000 worth of gearmotors or anything else now available [what Jared said], this just doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, I believe both the FIRST Choice procedures and rule R13 [2012] could use a change (though obviously I push for the former more). Even if it was changed to focus on those truly in need or some other fundamental change, it has to be better than the system simply failing.

*I can't imagine how difficult this is on teams that simply can't afford alternatives. I'm dreading the impact it could have, but something tells me we'll be donating more parts than usual this season.

[Chris is me]

I always interpreted the KoP rule as "you're allowed to use up to the amount of the parts present in the KoP for 'free' in terms of the BOM." Since Talons were not restricted in FIRST Choice, wouldn't they be free in the BOM anyway?

[maddoctor90]

I always interpreted the KoP rule as "you're allowed to use up to the amount of the parts present in the KoP for 'free' in terms of the BOM." Since Talons were not restricted in FIRST Choice, wouldn't they be free in the BOM anyway?

No they technically wouldn't.
From the Q&A:
"Rule R13C allows exclusion from total cost of "items ever distributed to the team via FIRST Choice". May a team exclude the cost of an item listed in FIRST Choice but which was not available for distribution due to limited quantities in stock?"
Answer: No

Link: https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/425/rule-r13c-allows-exclusion-from-total-cost-of-items-ever-distributed-to-the-team-via-first-choice-may-a-team-exclude-the-cost-of-an-item-listed-in-first-choice-but-which-was-not-available-for-distr

[sanddrag]

The BOM rules must be changed to count fair market value of everything on the robot, regardless of how you obtained it. (And perhaps raise the limit a bit, and declare fair market values for KOP items that cannot be purchased from vendors). It's the only logical way. This is a robotics competition, not a book-cooking competition.

[McGurky]

Teams adversely affected by the Inventory management problems should contact frcparts@usfirst.org.


Good afternoon,

There was an issue with FIRST Choice inventory management yesterday that allowed teams to place orders for parts that were no longer available.

If you believe you were adversely affected by this issue (i.e. you ordered an item that you thought was in stock, but later learned that the part was not in stock, and thus missed out on ordering other parts you would have ordered had you had accurate inventory data), please contact us at frcparts@usfirst.org.

Meanwhile, as stated in an earlier blog post, the credits spent on these items have been returned to your account.

We’re so sorry for this issue and for the frustration it may have caused.

Kate

[slijin]

Is there any possibility at all that the FIRST Choice inventory gets replenished? Thinking at this point we'll just save our credits and hope something valuable is available later.

I hate to bear bad news, but:

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 8:13 AM, Jerry Budd <jerry@andymark.com> wrote:

Correct. According to rules, when an item goes out of stock it remains out of stock for this year.

Jerry Budd
AndyMark Inc.
Robot Controls Engineer



On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Samuel Lijin wrote:

Hi Jerry,

Does that mean there is absolutely no possibility that FIRST Choice will be restocked in the future?

Samuel Lijin

[Andy Baker]

I hate to bear bad news, but:

This has been a policy since we started FIRST Choice. Here is a FAQ posted on the AM website (http://www.andymark.com/v/FIRSTChoiceFAQ.html):

"What happens if a part is out of stock when I try to place my order?
When logging into the FIRST Choice Ordering section of the AndyMark webpage, the number of items still in stock at the moment the webpage loads is shown for each part. If there are no more available at this time it will show 'OUT OF STOCK'. Since many teams are placing their orders at the same time, someone else might have reserved the last part, by placing their order, while you are still checking out. In this case, the item will automatically be removed from your cart. Please be sure to place your order quickly, and double check your order after it has been placed. If this does happen you will still be able to log in again and order something else! Once a FIRST Choice item is out of stock, it will be out of stock for the remainder of the FIRST Choice ordering period."

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[Peyton Yeung]

I think one thing people are wondering is if FIRST Choice will offer a variety of new parts from FIRST Choice after kickoff and if they should save the credits they have left over to add to the 100 they'll get in January.

To be short is there a new set of different parts that'll be released after kickoff or just game specific pieces?

Peyton

[Tom Line]

I think one thing people are wondering is if FIRST Choice will offer a variety of new parts from FIRST Choice after kickoff and if they should save the credits they have left over to add to the 100 they'll get in January.

To be short is there a new set of different parts that'll be released after kickoff or just game specific pieces?

Peyton

We're (my team) is assuming that the only reason we're getting another 100 points at kickoff is specially to buy those game-related parts that aren't released yet.

It's a logical assumption.....

[CalTran]

Got in for a second order; ordered one (1) new compressor, four (4) Clippard plastic volume tanks, and three (3) 24v Solenoid kits. Order seems to have processed fine. Our team now has three (3) FIRST Choice points left. And no, we do not want a backwards DB37 ribbon cable.

[McGurky]

Got in for a second order; ordered one (1) new compressor, four (4) Clippard plastic volume tanks, and three (3) 24v Solenoid kits. Order seems to have processed fine. Our team now has three (3) FIRST Choice points left. And no, we do not want a backwards DB37 ribbon cable.

Are aware that it is fairly simple to fix the cable to no longer be "backwards"?

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2012_Assets/DB37%20Ribbon%20Cable%20Assembly%20-%20Rework%20Instructions.pdf

[F22Rapture]

Are aware that it is fairly simple to fix the cable to no longer be "backwards"?

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2012_Assets/DB37%20Ribbon%20Cable%20Assembly%20-%20Rework%20Instructions.pdf

Or you could just use the equivalent non-ribbon cable, which IIRC is also on FIRST Choice.

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-096.htm

[Littleboy]

Exactly why are they made backwards? What is the purpose of that?

[BigJ]

Exactly why are they made backwards? What is the purpose of that?

It was an error in manufacturing, all ribbon cables we got last(?) season had to be repaired after teams opened the kits of parts.

Or you could just use the equivalent non-ribbon cable, which IIRC is also on FIRST Choice.

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-096.htm

A lot of teams prefer the ribbon solution as it takes up a lot less vertical space, and if the big stiff connector gets hit hard enough from the side I bet some pins are gonna get bent/broken ::safety::

[jason701802]

What happened to the team 5000 login (i.e. the viewing only account)? Is there another way to keep track of stock for those who don't have a login yet or just don't have access to it? There's a non-login page (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-s/411.htm) to see whats avaliable, but it doesn't show stock beyond in/out of stock.

[Mark McLeod]

Or you could just use the equivalent non-ribbon cable, which IIRC is also on FIRST Choice.

I think his point is that he has 3 credits remaining and chose not to order the only item available for that number of credits.

Is there another way to keep track of stock for those who don't have a login yet or just don't have access to it?
Can't help you long term, but here's today's remaining stock.

[IndySam]

These Fluke meters have been offered for three years and I can't for the life of me understand why teams don't snap them up. These are $200 meters and I think most teams would benefit from getting one.

Also those Festo valves are a high value item and even if you don't use them you can always trade them to another team for something you could.

[Jon Stratis]

Agreed, those meters are great. We got one last year, and were thinking of getting another one this year... until we found out one of our sponsors was "retiring" some and would donate them instead of throwing them away :D

[Mark McLeod]

Anyone using the PDV's yet?
Bimba (http://www.bimba.com/FIRST-Form-Open/) seems to be open for the free 3 cylinder order, too.

Statement of interest on the Banebot site (http://banebots.com/c/FIRST):
The RS-390, RS-395, RS-540, RS-545, RS-550, and RS-775 motors listed on this page are legal for FIRST use.
Should we believe them?

[FrankJ]

Got the meter. Also got the cable. It is going to be an intelligence test for the electrical crew. Which plug do you reverse? Or do you be safe & do both of them to be sure you got the right one?

[Jon Stratis]

Anyone using the PDV's yet?
Bimba seems to be open for the free order, too.

Statement of interest on the Banebot site (http://banebots.com/c/FIRST):

Should we believe them?

I hope so... otherwise we'll run into quite a few problems at inspection from teams that saw that and didn't bother to verify with the rulebook!

[Siri]

I hope so... otherwise we'll run into quite a few problems at inspection from teams that saw that and didn't bother to verify with the rulebook!I bet there are a good number of teams <points to self> that want to get a jump on Banebots infamous shipping times by ordering now. The PDV code is already on TIMS, so if FIRST changes its mind they're likely to end up with even more unhappy customers on the hands.


On that note though, I'd like to thank FIRST for everything they're doing to compensate for FIRST Choice. I'm disappointed (I'm sure they are too) that it came to this, but my, are they trying to make up for it. I'm impressed. I'm also afraid to think about how much the compensation offer is costing them.

[jason701802]

These Fluke meters have been offered for three years and I can't for the life of me understand why teams don't snap them up. These are $200 meters and I think most teams would benefit from getting one.

Also those Festo valves are a high value item and even if you don't use them you can always trade them to another team for something you could.

The Fluke is possible to find for ~$115 (interesting coincidence) and pretty easy to find for ~$135. We got one each of the last two years and we would have gotten a lot more (to replace the freebee Harbor Freight multimeter used in our physics classes) if they weren't limited to one per team. I can't imagine most teams would need more than two and if they're trying to get stuff to resell, the graphics cards have a greater $/credit ratio.

[Gregor]

Is anyone else having issues with First Choice? Our password in TIMS isn't working to log on. We had no issues with this on December 10th. I'm in the process of writing an email to frcteams@usfirst.org

[Mark McLeod]

I had no trouble.

[IndySam]

I had no trouble either.

[Dad1279]

Ours worked fine also. I almost used pdv password by accident, sure you are using the correct AndyMark code?

[mklinker]

I too am experiencing login difficulties at FIRST Choice. My password and username are accepted but I cannot "accept" the agreement....I am sent back to the login screen.

[kpbot]

I know this is stupid of me, but I am with a rookie team and did not know what FIRST Choice was until today at kickoff. :( Now it seems pretty much everything that would be extremely helpful for us is out of stock. Does that mean its out of stock permanently? If so, what is left that we should most definitely get? Thanks so much.

[Gregor]

I know this is stupid of me, but I am with a rookie team and did not know what FIRST Choice was until today at kickoff. :( Now it seems pretty much everything that would be extremely helpful for us is out of stock. Does that mean its out of stock permanently? If so, what is left that we should most definitely get? Thanks so much.

First Choice stock will not be replenished.

[themedic97]

I remember purchasing a bunch of basketballs separately since there was a limit of 2 anyway (I believe I'm remembering that correctly).

I guess a related question is: last year were there any parts added post-kickoff that were a way better deal on FIRST Choice.

Well we tore through our basketballs last year and got more from FIRSTCHOICE for an ok price but the discs this year are standard and can be bought at a dollar store if you continually break them.

[Racer26]

Well we tore through our basketballs last year and got more from FIRSTCHOICE for an ok price but the discs this year are standard and can be bought at a dollar store if you continually break them.

The DISCs are not standard. They are slightly different from "regulation" Frisbees. Differences might not matter, depending on your design, but ensure that you test with the official game piece, or you might have a bad time.