Game Hint Hint

[Mark McLeod]

In today's FRC Blog: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-einstein-update-and-game-hint-status


Game Hint Status
I’ve seen speculation on the forums regarding when the game hint (or the ‘next’ game hint, whichever camp you’re in) will be released. Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow! That is one nice game hint. But we’re not quite ready to release it yet. We’ll be doing that on 12/21. Feel free to speculate, if you wish, as to why we’re releasing a game hint on the same day the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar ends, but please keep ‘coincidence’ as one of the explanations you consider.

[dcarr]

Oh man...a hint about a hint...this is too meta

[bardd]

Hintception...
Should be interesting. I hope I manage to get some sleep until then :D

[Brandon Zalinsky]

I think the cumulative mind-blowing that will happen due to this game hint on the 21st will end the world.

[Tottanka]

Definitely water game.

[Taylor]

(second?) Game hint hint meta teaser link here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY)ception

[dcarr]

Definitely water game.

Well, according to the film 2012 the world should start flooding on 12/21 making a water game inevitable.

[Jon Stratis]

Hmmm... It sounds like they don't actually have a game hint (maybe they don't even have a game!), and are betting that the world will actually end on Dec 21, thus relieving them of the obligation to provide a hint or a game.

Or the game might have something to do with the Long Count Calendar. Maybe something where you have to manipulate meshed gears of some sort to hit specific years in the calendar that correspond to big historical events, and doing so will release a game piece that can be used for something else.

[Nick Lawrence]

This (http://youtu.be/xSLlZh9yelk)seems appropriate.

-Nick

[karomata]

At least we now are sure that the Rick Astley picture was just a red herring, or rather FIRST just rick rolled everyone.

[mlantry]

this makes it 100% official if we all survive then it makes us worthy for a water

[CalTran]

And that's the day I get my wisdom teeth out...dang. Maybe the drugs will help my creativity ::rolleyes:: looks like Hallry was right about when the hint would be released (or the FRC figured his math sounded good) on when to do so

[pfreivald]

12/21 --> anagram of 2112.

No Cotton Eyed Joe, no Gagnam Style, no Call me Maybe, no Party in the USA.

All Rush, all the time.

\,,/ \,,/

[dellagd]

Dang! I was really looking forward to finding out what the hint would be. Guess we'll never find out :)

[Jay O'Donnell]

But then we won't be able to spend way too much time going over silly hints! :D

[MARS_James]

12/21 --> anagram of 2112.

No Cotton Eyed Joe, no Gagnam Style, no Call me Maybe, no Party in the USA.

All Rush, all the time.

\,,/ \,,/

This was awesome

But I think the fact that coincidence is specifically mentioned may actually be a hint. Perhaps luck (a synonym of coincidence) will play a bigger factor in this game (multiple scoring locations with random point values that we don't know until we score on them

[pandamonium]

The important part of this post is that they are mindful of these forums and that is a good sign.

[Jessica Boucher]

I already got my game hint in the mail. It's cool.

[JB987]

May be worth checking out some of the Mayan games (hopefully excluding loser consequences in some of the games)...just a couple of their games:

http://library.thinkquest.org/5891/games.htm

[Don Knight]

12 21 12 reverse images of preceding number - mirrors there will be mirrors :) and 45 game pieces or would it be 54???

[Jon Stratis]

The important part of this post is that they are mindful of these forums and that is a good sign.

This isn't the first time Frank has mentioned items he's seen on here. My favorite is http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-09-28-12 - Brain in a Vat!

You can trust that FIRST will always lurk in whatever online forums teams are using, although they'll never post. They'll leave communicating with teams to the approved official channels (rules, GDC Q&A, Blog, e-mail blasts, etc).

[FrankJ]

The hint is really very clear.... The veiled reference to the Mayan culture. Mayans reportedly did not use wheels on their machinery. They used sledges to get around. Liquid water is not very safe with open electronics. (UL would never approve.) It must be a snow game!!! :]

[Radical Pi]

Coincidence is obviously not an option, so since we only get the hint if the world ends, that must mean there's no endgame this year!

Unless coincidence is actually an option. 12/21 is also the winter solstice...

[CalTran]

Perhaps this also means that the end game is worth EVEN MORE than it ever has been

[coalhot]

I think that if the world does not end, the game will have an endgame where the game never ends. Flawless logic...

[Mark McLeod]

, so since we only get the hint if the world ends, that must mean there's no endgame this year!

The end game this time is for keeps!

[Andrew Lawrence]

The hint that will destroy the world. THIS is what the Mayans predicted!

[brndn]

There is no hint... they're just banking on the world ending so they don't have to release anything. That, or yes, the hint itself will destroy the world.

[Samwaldo]

All this talk about "The End", i have a strong feeling that maybe this hint coming in a few days will tell us about the endgame

[Greg Young]

Of course, it could be a veiled reference to a coincidence detector. In order to score two robots have to do something at the same time. With coopertition points if the robots are on opposite alliances.

Or maybe not.

[joelg236]

This has to have something to do with "the end". Maybe at the end of the game all the robots are sucked into a large crater that emerges in the middle of the field, and all of the drivers need to drive their robots out before they are destroyed!

Or, a cool endgame. Either or.

[Phyrxes]

12/21 --> anagram of 2112.

No Cotton Eyed Joe, no Gagnam Style, no Call me Maybe, no Party in the USA.

All Rush, all the time.

\,,/ \,,/

I support this idea 100%, that and the look of confusion on hundreds of students faces at a regional would be priceless.

[|DELTA|]

Oh man...a hint about a hint...this is too meta

Yeah. i sense a subtle a Troll among us..

[AlecMataloni]

12/21 --> anagram of 2112.

No Cotton Eyed Joe, no Gagnam Style, no Call me Maybe, no Party in the USA.

All Rush, all the time.

\,,/ \,,/

If only this were the case. If I never hear Chantilly Lace or the Cha Cha Slide again, it'll be too soon. :)

I'm intrigued by the possibility of Mayan stadium sports, minus the whole sacrificing part.

[Richard Wallace]

May be worth checking out some of the Mayan games ...Based on some quick research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_rubber_balls), I recommend teams start designing manipulators to handle an eight inch diameter solid rubber ball weighing about three to four kilograms. Dropping the ball can have serious consequences ... :eek:

[coalhot]

I have a feeling that the Mayan aspect will have absolutely nothing to do with this years game.

[|DELTA|]

That would be very interesting. But I think that something like this is a bit to obvious. Anyone can look up Aztec culture and derive games playable by robots from it. Besides, we just had a ball game. I feel that the game is going to be some sort of stacking or arranging type of deal. Just a vibe, but....

[Austin2046]

Hmm, combining "never gonna give you up" with the end of the world i get that this years game will be... a robot version of keep away or kill the carrier...

game pieces in the center of the arena and alliances try to maintain control of them until the end of the match... because they're never gonna give them up, until the end of the world...

this does seem like a rather simple game though, and maybe not too spectator friendly.

[dag0620]

As to my thoughts on what this means, I'll keep to myself.

But I gotta say as the years go on, I enjoy the trolling by FIRST Staff, and it's been so good this year! A hint about a hint, I mean come on how could you get better than that?

Keep up the good work HQ, and keep our heads spinning in the crazy illogical fashion like always!

[dodar]

What the hint really means is that at the end of every match, a giant solar flare will destroy the field.

[Peyton Yeung]

What about field pieces that start together but drift apart? (Similar to the would falling apart)

Return of the hexagonal trailers/goals?

Peyton

[wasayanwer97]

Perhaps a normal period of play, and then some randomized, crazy event during the end game?

[dellagd]

All this talk about "The End", i have a strong feeling that maybe this hint coming in a few days will tell us about the endgame

Sounds good to me.

Gah. Thanks FIRST for making my next three days horrible with anticipation.

Also, Im SURE they wont post it at 12 am beginning of the 21st like I would like, that would not fit with the Trolling pattern.

[Sean Raia]

They are not ready to release the game hint until the "end of the world"?
Combine this with the "Never gonna give you up" hint...

That's whats standing out for me.

[GCentola]

They are not ready to release the game hint until the "end of the world"?



That's whats standing out for me. :P

[Taylor]

Seriously - when competition rolls around, the Mayan 'prediction' will be a distant memory. The 2013 game will not include that at all.

[Donut]

What the hint really means is that at the end of every match, a giant solar flare will destroy the field.

...another year with Einstein communication issues :rolleyes: ...

[wilhitern1]

May be worth checking out some of the Mayan games ...

Pok-a-tok would really shorten the tournament. And (possible) leave a lot of robot parts strewn about...

Neal

[khussein]

it's a water game.

[Hadi379]

Maybe theres a relationship between the mesoamerican numerals and the scoring system for this years game. If you follow link, notice the Hieroglyphics on the right. Maybe each configuration of bar and dot represents how the game pieces can be configured, which would then give you the appropriate point value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_Long_Count_calendar#Mesoamerican_nume rals


Alot of people have speculated a stacking game, and this kind of supports that theory as well.

[Gary Dillard]

You have to put your team number on your bumpers in Meso-American Numbers (4" Stroke X 3/4" wide, of course)

[Gary Dillard]

Also, they are releasing this game hint on the day(21) that corresponds to the number of the game (this will be the 21st game).
Just an interesting tidbit

Close - it will actually be the 22nd game

[Danny Blau]

With all this talk of 'The End' and making predictions:

what about a stop the clock early end game like in 2001, except this time you have to tell the field personnel before the start of the match how much time you need for the end game. That would really be interesting for the scouting/strategy people.

Danny

[BigJ]

Close - it will actually be the 22nd game

Not if you start counting at 0. :cool:

[Sean Raia]

Close - it will actually be the 22nd game

Ah wow, don't know why I didn't see that.

I agree though, that we should certainly drop the Mayan/End of the world theme. I doubt FIRST would use that silly, misinterpreted prediction as part of a worldwide robotics competition theme.

I think focusing on WHY they released a hint about a hint, and what's in the wording of the hint, is at least on the right track.

[coalhot]

Water Game! (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2414.htm?utm_source=Dec+19+Product+Release&utm_campaign=Dec+19&utm_medium=socialshare)

[DMetalKong]

...another year with Einstein communication issues :rolleyes: ...

Just to sidetrack a bit, more important than the Game Hint Hint was the update on solutions that are being implemented after the issues with Einstein last semester. This specifically stood out to me:


C. The Driver Station and Robot now support a Test mode to help facilitate teams testing robot functions
prior to and between matches. This new mode can be used to actuate individual outputs or whole
subsystems of the robot.

D. A new Robot Builder tool will be released to aid teams in constructing their robot code around the
subsystems of the robot, then test each of these subsystems using the SmartDashboard.


There are a bunch of other improvements, but these alone stand out as huge positives that are coming out of the investigation that will be of major benefit to teams.

[Richard Wallace]

Water Game! (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2414.htm?utm_source=Dec+19+Product+Release&utm_campaign=Dec+19&utm_medium=socialshare)The 6WD fish on that shirt will not pass inspection -- bumper rules. Sorry.

Or ... just maybe ... revised bumper rules? Could it happen? :rolleyes:

[Walter Deitzler]

Lets think about the other hint for a second.

Rick Astley at 3:00 in the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video. We speculate that this might just mean more autonomous period, an extra 30 seconds of it.

But with the end of the world (12/21) being tied to this hint, we have interpreted something new about the end game.

Maybe the hint means a longer endgame, an extra 30 seconds to do whatever the endgame task is. This could mean a more difficult or complex endgame.

Thoughts?

[Saberbot]

Lets think about the other hint for a second.

Rick Astley at 3:00 in the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video. We speculate that this might just mean more autonomous period, an extra 30 seconds of it.

But with the end of the world (12/21) being tied to this hint, we have interpreted something new about the end game.

Maybe the hint means a longer endgame, an extra 30 seconds to do whatever the endgame task is. This could mean a more difficult or complex endgame.

Thoughts?

What about an Auto/Hybrid endgame? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember a game where it has been done before.
It would be neat if there was one thing that varied that required one team on the alliance to use the kinect. I can see this being very exciting to watch, except for matches/events with teams with low programming skills.

Edit/Expansion:

This caught my eye while re-reading the blog post:
Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow! That is one nice game hint. But we’re not quite ready to release it yet. We’ll be doing that on 12/21.
What if there were an element on the field that released part way through the match? I am imagining something similar to the 2004 ball release, but on a timer that activated it words the end of the match. It would be really cool to see the field change right before an autonomous endgame, and it would certainly present a large challenge.

[SarahBeth]

Water Game! (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2414.htm?utm_source=Dec+19+Product+Release&utm_campaign=Dec+19&utm_medium=socialshare)

LOL, that shirt is fantastic. I need it.

[Ultimatum]

Lets think about the other hint for a second.

Rick Astley at 3:00 in the "Never Gonna Give You Up" video. We speculate that this might just mean more autonomous period, an extra 30 seconds of it.

But with the end of the world (12/21) being tied to this hint, we have interpreted something new about the end game.

Maybe the hint means a longer endgame, an extra 30 seconds to do whatever the endgame task is. This could mean a more difficult or complex endgame.

Thoughts?

What if the endgame IS the autonomous period? :ahh:

15 seconds of autonomous in the beginning, 2 minutes of match play, and then another 15 seconds of autonomous at the end. That would be a way to implement the Kinect, as the advantages seem numerous in being able to control what you do on the fly. It would also raise the question of whether you perform the endgame during tele-op and sit there for the second autonomous, or trust your autonomous code to do it for you, allowing you to use those last precious seconds of user control.

[joelg236]

What if the endgame IS the autonomous period? :ahh:

15 seconds of autonomous in the beginning, 2 minutes of match play, and then another 15 seconds of autonomous at the end. That would be a way to implement the Kinect, as the advantages seem numerous in being able to control what you do on the fly. It would also raise the question of whether you perform the endgame during tele-op and sit there for the second autonomous, or trust your autonomous code to do it for you, allowing you to use those last precious seconds of user control.

I think you might have just cracked the secret. Seriously. (http://i.imgur.com/V5nQn.gif)

It also coordinates with the theories about a 3:00 game from the rick-roll hint.

[Saberbot]

What about an Auto/Hybrid endgame? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember a game where it has been done before.
It would be neat if there was one thing that varied that required one team on the alliance to use the kinect. I can see this being very exciting to watch, except for matches/events with teams with low programming skills.

Edit/Expansion:

This caught my eye while re-reading the blog post:

What if there were an element on the field that released part way through the match? I am imagining something similar to the 2004 ball release, but on a timer that activated it words the end of the match. It would be really cool to see the field change right before an autonomous endgame, and it would certainly present a large challenge.
Bump from a couple hours ago... :rolleyes:

[joelg236]

What about an Auto/Hybrid endgame? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember a game where it has been done before.
It would be neat if there was one thing that varied that required one team on the alliance to use the kinect. I can see this being very exciting to watch, except for matches/events with teams with low programming skills.

Edit/Expansion:

This caught my eye while re-reading the blog post:

What if there were an element on the field that released part way through the match? I am imagining something similar to the 2004 ball release, but on a timer that activated it words the end of the match. It would be really cool to see the field change right before an autonomous endgame, and it would certainly present a large challenge.

Bump from a couple hours ago... :rolleyes:

Well there you go, didn't catch that. :rolleyes: This feels very right, and would be really cool to see what we could do with it. If this ends up being true, credit goes to you. ;)

[pfreivald]

A longer game would surprise me, if only because FIRST events have a tendency to run over time as it is...

Unless of course, you had more than six robots per game.

[Saberbot]

A longer game would surprise me, if only because FIRST events have a tendency to run over time as it is...

Unless of course, you had more than six robots per game.

Good Point.
If a large regional has 120 matches, adding 15 seconds to each match adds one half hour to the tournament. I can imagine that being squeezed in, but it would be a stretch.

[brndn]

What if the endgame IS the autonomous period? :ahh:
That would be cool...
Unless of course, you had more than six robots per game.
So would that...
It would be really cool to see the field change right before an autonomous endgame
And this too...

I think no matter what, the game will be something different and something challenging. And Rick Astley will perform in St. Louis, of course. ;)

[dellagd]

I think you might have just cracked the secret. Seriously. (http://i.imgur.com/V5nQn.gif)

It also coordinates with the theories about a 3:00 game from the rick-roll hint.

I may just be crazy (Its been a long day) but doesnt that make 2:30 seconds and not 3:00?

[Ultimatum]

I may just be crazy (Its been a long day) but doesnt that make 2:30 seconds and not 3:00?

As mentioned previously, adding 15 seconds would mess with regional times. Adding a whole 45 would give regional planners nightmares. 3:00 matches just don't seem plausible. Of course, the GDC might disagree...

[joelg236]

What if they just changed teleop to 2:00, and two 15 second autonomous modes? There are a ton of different ways they could make two auton modes feasible. (maybe not entertaining, but you know what I mean)

[dellagd]

What if they just changed teleop to 2:00, and two 15 second autonomous modes? There are a ton of different ways they could make two auton modes feasible. (maybe not entertaining, but you know what I mean)

+1 for auton mode.

I, as a programmer, always strive to have the entire robot operate with as little driver input as possible. Those pesky humans....

[gyroscopeRaptor]

I can see it now.

January 5th, after waiting through long speeches the FIRST community is anxious to see the next challenge. The GDC, Dean, Woodie, and all the guys walk up to the large black curtain that takes up the stage. Thousands of students take in a deep breath.
"And now, for this year's game..."
The curtain falls, and an all too familiar drum plays. The world hears a man say a few fateful words that they will remember for the next year. It isn't the game name, it's, "We're no strangers to love..." Thousands of groans are heard worldwide... but then, we look at the stage. Strangely for a music event, it's carpeted... and 27 by 54 feet!
After the song plays through the second verse, we start to notice something more; Rick's standing on an island on the game that slowly rose up as the field fills with water. Cue game video.

I stand by my prediction for this year's kickoff.

[Shifter]

I’ve seen speculation on the forums regarding when the game hint (or the ‘next’ game hint, whichever camp you’re in) will be released. Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow! That is one nice game hint. But we’re not quite ready to release it yet. We’ll be doing that on 12/21. Feel free to speculate, if you wish, as to why we’re releasing a game hint on the same day the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar ends, but please keep ‘coincidence’ as one of the explanations you consider.

Not to read too much into each little word but...

1. I think the key from the hint hint is the one word in quotes. A definition for coincide:

a : to occupy the same place in space or time
b : to occupy exactly corresponding or equivalent positions on a scale or in a series

2. "That is one nice game hint" = complimentary

This idea of coinciding, concurring, synchronizing, pairing, mirroring, complimenting, and agreeing has been seen most recently in this season's FLL mission "SIMILARITY RECOGNITION AND COOPERATION: Robot aligns your pointer with the other team’s pointer".

3. Note the unusual punctuation in "Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow!". See the truth table for an AND gate (http://www.circuitstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2-Input-AND-Gate-Truth-Table.jpg). Adding to that the reference to "12/21" points to two 2-input AND gates.


This all leads me to believe that, at the end of this year's 3-minute FRC game, the robots from each 4-member alliance may need to "coincide" as in a coincidence circuit (http://www.dictionaryofengineering.com/definition/coincidence-circuit.html). The two pairs of robots initially tethered together will either need to both remain attached (www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-009.htm) throughout the match OR both detach by match end.

Alliances get bonus points for maintaining their two-robot tether throughout the entire match. Extra bonus points are awarded to both alliances if, at the end buzzer, one robot from the red alliance is tethered to one robot from the blue alliance.

Either that or a robot tug of war.

[279 EMPIE]

I’ve seen speculation on the forums regarding when the game hint (or the ‘next’ game hint, whichever camp you’re in) will be released. Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow! That is one nice game hint. But we’re not quite ready to release it yet. We’ll be doing that on 12/21. Feel free to speculate, if you wish, as to why we’re releasing a game hint on the same day the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar ends, but please keep ‘coincidence’ as one of the explanations you consider.

Not to read too much into each little word but...

1. I think the key from the hint hint is the one word in quotes. A definition for coincide:

a : to occupy the same place in space or time
b : to occupy exactly corresponding or equivalent positions on a scale or in a series

2. "That is one nice game hint" = complimentary

This idea of coinciding, concurring, synchronizing, pairing, mirroring, complimenting, and agreeing has been seen most recently in this season's FLL mission "SIMILARITY RECOGNITION AND COOPERATION: Robot aligns your pointer with the other team’s pointer".

3. Note the unusual punctuation in "Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow!". See the truth table for an AND gate (http://www.circuitstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2-Input-AND-Gate-Truth-Table.jpg). Adding to that the reference to "12/21" points to two 2-input AND gates.


This all leads me to believe that, at the end of this year's 3-minute FRC game, the robots from each 4-member alliance may need to "coincide" as in a coincidence circuit (http://www.dictionaryofengineering.com/definition/coincidence-circuit.html). The two pairs of robots initially tethered together will either need to both remain attached (www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-009.htm) throughout the match OR both detach by match end.

Alliances get bonus points for maintaining their two-robot tether throughout the entire match. Extra bonus points are awarded to both alliances if, at the end buzzer, one robot from the red alliance is tethered to one robot from the blue alliance.

Either that or a robot tug of war.

You have to remember though, There was something said about using the Kinect again this year. i cant remember what was actually said :(

[Fireball9199]

And that's the day I get my wisdom teeth out...dang. Maybe the drugs will help my creativity ::rolleyes:: looks like Hallry was right about when the hint would be released (or the FRC figured his math sounded good) on when to do so

coincidentally, I had mine taken out this morning instead of the day before kickoff, and I can still feel it, but I can think pretty straight right now. and getting it done now is much better than getting during build season. I hope it goes well for you!

[dellagd]

You have to remember though, There was something said about using the Kinect again this year. i cant remember what was actually said :(

The words were something about using the kinect this year and then "So dont throw out your kinects"

Probably said (I think they were) in the FRC Behind the design videos, which, by the way, are VERY interesting.

[BleakRNS]

The words were something about using the kinect this year and then "So dont throw out your kinects"

Probably said (I think they were) in the FRC Behind the design videos, which, by the way, are VERY interesting.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEptkEapiyo&t=7m15s)'s Bill Miller talking about the Kinect in the FRC Live sessions from Championship last year. I think this is the video you were referencing.

[ekovacs]

And that's the day I get my wisdom teeth out...dang. Maybe the drugs will help my creativity :: looks like Hallry was right about when the hint would be released (or the FRC figured his math sounded good) on when to do so
coincidentally, I had mine taken out this morning instead of the day before kickoff, and I can still feel it, but I can think pretty straight right now. and getting it done now is much better than getting during build season. I hope it goes well for you!

That's funny, I just got mine taken out last friday.

[dellagd]

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEptkEapiyo&t=7m15s)'s Bill Miller talking about the Kinect in the FRC Live sessions from Championship last year. I think this is the video you were referencing.

Yes, those are the videos. Watch them anyone who is curious about how the GDC works.

[SenorZ]

'coincidence' --> to coincide --> to agree

end of the world... world is round

Ring game?