2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!

[rhinobot]

Could somebody please restate the current translation.

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

[ENIAC]

Could somebody please restate the current translation.

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

[pfreivald]

I would rather have Heidi Klum show up.

All of our robots will have to balance Heidi Klum clones at the end of the game for bonus points.

[IndySam]

All of our robots will have to balance Heidi Klum clones at the end of the game for bonus points.

sigh, forum rules dictate we keep this clean :(

[Bill_B]

Balance would be the operative word. Heidi is already stacked.

[ReapersRule]

I have definitely noticed the recurring "3" everywhere. What if this is a reference to the third FRC game, Tower Power?

"Contestants attempt to place as many of their soccer balls possible inside one of two goals. In each match, three-team alliances compete to place 12 balls of their team color inside either the high goal, worth 3 points, or in the low goal, worth one point per ball. The winner is the team that has the highest total point value of soccer balls within the two goals at the end of the two minute match. In the case of a tie, the team with more balls in the upper goal wins." (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Who/FIRST_History/FRC_Game_Summaries_Photos.pdf)


Now, our "translation" says:
A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT (GREAT may be TREAT)
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Now, due to the apparent rhyme scheme, great does make more sense than treat, as it rhymes with weight. So, we have a rose which has been kissed and a great singer. Right? Then, we have a dinner which was missed and something holding weight.

Unless, it is a rose kissed by a great singer and a missed dinner that is holding weight. Ok, I'm just making up random stuff now. But still, I feel like there may be something to the idea that maybe there are objects to be scored on different levels. Maybe? Possibly?

[mikeleslie]

OK, here's my guess"
A game with the following features:
A scoring "tower" with a (vision target for aiming or a light target for activation) which must be first "opened" for maximum benefit.

I like the idea of something other than balls to manipulate, so it'e either cubes or tetras (FIRST symbol branding)

Bot's holding each other up or carrying at the end....

The objects will no doubt have images of Seal and Heidi Klum,

[inkspell4]

Maybe we have to balance a ball on a cone painted like a seals nose.

http://www.calbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/seal_balancing_ball.jpg

And the robot has to throw a pie at somebody in the audiance

[dcarr]

From someone on my team:

Oh my goodness you guys it's obviously a love story gone awry. So there was this girl who liked the frontman in the band and they kissed and stuff but he didn't show up for dinner and she got fat by being depressed and eating too much ice cream. And robotics is somehow involved.

[Flimsor]

Here's my view of these hints and the games. I think each hint is just a specific part of the game or something like that (maybe the robot). I think that the Rick Astley hint is pointing to the end game, since the screenshot was taken at exactly 3 minutes, and if that's the length of the new game, it would be the end game. 3 is coming up a lot, so this must be extremely important. I think the pins have something to do with the layout of the field.

Someone looked into that picture's metadata and found the gps coordinates of where it was taken from. It was taken at SEE Science CenterI did some more looking into SEE Science Center. Relevant to the threes that are coming up a lot this year, there's a "Mill Number 3" right below it on Google Maps. Also, they just finished up the "Lego Millyard Project" featuring a model with over 3 million Lego bricks and, get this, it was sponsored by FIRST. Lego also turned 80 this year
http://www.see-sciencecenter.org/visitors/millyard-project.aspx

Keeping things relevant to how this clue may be entirely about the end game, two years ago, minibots were introduced for the game. The line "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" may be saying that it's them bringing back old game elements. The minibots were introduced as an integration of the other FIRST Leages, and some teams got FTC teams to build them a minibot. Maybe we've got more integration, but with FLL. FLL is also the third FIRST league. If the end game has to do with that, then 3 would definitely be very important, seeing as how the end game tends to be a game changer.

As to what they'll be doing, rolling comes up a lot here. That last hint was part of pi, and pi has a very close relation to circles. If you hit play at the 3 minute mark of the Rick Astley video, the next thing he says is "Never gonna let you down". Maybe you have to roll something up a steep hill (or something like that)? I'd like to hear more ideas on this.

As for that interesting find in the KOP about the size change of the robot, I think we may be seeing smaller robots, and a bigger alliance. FIRST is getting a ton of new teams from that agreement they made with YMCA last year. This many teams in FIRST would make the current setup of 3v3 matches taken even longer, and there may not be time in the schedule for that. Many others have also pointed out in this thread how last years field had an interesting driver station setup, that could have been FIRST testing out some of the changes. A smaller chassis would also put rookie teams at less of a disadvantage to teams who pre-designed chassis (and shared them publicly) and already know what their doing. They'd have to redesign, just like everyone else. To me, a 4v4 change-up just makes sense for this year.

Looking over all of this, i've just noticed something rather interesting, although it may have nothing to do with the game itself. We've got the 3 sided triangles/tetras (relevant to all the threes), rolling objects (such as spheres), and rectangular Lego bricks (FLL/maybe FTC). That's triangle, circle, square. It's the first logo. Maybe each portion of the game models part of the logo? That may be pretty far off, though.

I'm not entirely sure what the decoded version of the "3rd" hint means, but it probably ties into this somehow. Also, the pin layout on the Rick Astley picture probably means something, but i'm not sure what. It'll all make sense after we see the game.

[bardd]

To me, a 4v4 change-up just makes sense for this year.


Am I the only one terrified of the possibility of a 4-team alliance?

[ReapersRule]

Also, the pin layout on the Rick Astley picture probably means something, but i'm not sure what.


Am I the only one here to not have seen this picture? Does anyone have a link to it they would like to post?

[Botwoon]

OK, here's my guess"
A game with the following features:
A scoring "tower" with a (vision target for aiming or a light target for activation) which must be first "opened" for maximum benefit.

I like the idea of something other than balls to manipulate, so it'e either cubes or tetras (FIRST symbol branding)

Bot's holding each other up or carrying at the end....

The objects will no doubt have images of Seal and Heidi Klum,

Cubes and Tetras are out of style, it's obvious to me that these will be the game pieces (http://i.imgur.com/cJY7m.jpg)

[Christopher149]

Am I the only one here to not have seen this picture? Does anyone have a link to it they would like to post?

Here's the entire thread about it: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=109112

and here is the picture: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg

[connor.worley]

Am I the only one terrified of the possibility of a 4-team alliance?

No.

[pfreivald]

Cubes and Tetras are out of style, it's obvious to me that these will be the game pieces (http://i.imgur.com/cJY7m.jpg)

Don't be silly. Tetrahexaflexagons are clearly the game piece for 2013!

[rl1806]

Has anyone thought about the game hint referring to:
Axl Rose, KISS
Rick Astly

There was “A Dinner” in the Cold November Rain music video by Guns N’ Roses and Rick Astley sang the song Hold Me in Your Arms.
I don’t know enough about KISS to know how “Missed” relates.

The minibots were introduced as an integration of the other FIRST Leages, and some teams got FTC teams to build them a minibot. Maybe we've got more integration, but with FLL.
We might have to use an FLL minibot to pick up a record and place it on a turntable; to go with the music theme.

[Michael Corsetto]

Am I the only one terrified of the possibility of a 4-team alliance?

My thoughts...

http://i.imgur.com/J6b9j.png

-Mike

[BigJ]

My thoughts...

-snip-

-Mike

Seconded!

[DampRobot]

Am I the only one terrified of the possibility of a 4-team alliance?

Am I the only one who thinks that the alliance situation won't change?

[ttldomination]

Am I the only one who thinks that the alliance situation won't change?

No, you're not the only one. I took the hint as, "Don't worry guys, Alliances will still have three teams on them. Now figure out the rest of the game."

- Sunny G.

[Siri]

Am I the only one who thinks that the alliance situation won't change?Not at all. I think the discussion is one of those “never suppose...simply prepare for everything” issues -- better to consider as many such possible ramifications ahead of time. If nothing else, it's been an intriguing annual thought experiment (at least in my minimal mind).

[Gregor]

Maybe we have to balance a ball on a cone painted like a seals nose.

http://www.calbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/seal_balancing_ball.jpg

And the robot has to throw a pie at somebody in the audiance
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1203934#post1203934

:D

[ThirteenOfTwo]

So here's the big question:

Did Kerry Wentworth (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-the-frc-staff) attend the FRC Holiday Celebration?

That'd make the hint make a lot more sense.

A ROSE KISSED -- Seal
SINGER GREAT -- Seal Great / Great Seal (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/IMAGES/US_Seal_Reverse.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/National_Symbols/USA_Seal.html&h=359&w=360&sz=22&tbnid=WDTudWQ-rGV_GM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgreat%2Bseal%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=great+seal&usg=__buLmDDl2IK6nKvj4K9jxGNyxs3c=&docid=6EMvqIK03OmYtM&sa=X&ei=IVbeUKSzMMbl0QH0lYCQDQ&ved=0CEUQ9QEwAw&dur=1974)
A DINNER MISSED -- Kerry?
HOLDING WEIGHT -- Carry

Carrying the great seal, or carrying a pyramid. This would explain all of the miscellaneous threes, as well--harking back to Triple Play.

[PVCpirate]

Someone looked into that picture's metadata and found the gps coordinates of where it was taken from. It was taken at SEE Science CenterI did some more looking into SEE Science Center.

I don't expect you to know this, but as someone who lives in New Hampshire, the SEE Science Center is located in the same building as FIRST Headquarters. So, it makes much more sense that the picture was taken at FIRST Headquarters, and it doesn't tell us anything. I like the creativity though.

[Flimsor]

I don't expect you to know this, but as someone who lives in New Hampshire, the SEE Science Center is located in the same building as FIRST Headquarters. So, it makes much more sense that the picture was taken at FIRST Headquarters, and it doesn't tell us anything. I like the creativity though.

Darn. I thought I was on to something there.

[_untitled_]

Perhaps it is the seal holding weight?
The first hint would then mean that the seal would never give up the weight.

[orangemoore]

I think that this speculation is not as productive as it used to be. I think that continuing is time wasted. Unless some new Game hint is released I think we will have to wait for the Kickoff on the 5th.

[Kevin Selavko]

Ive got it, the game peices will be tesseracts!

[Excessum]

Ive got it, the game peices will be tesseracts!

Well that would be quite confusing for everyone

[dellagd]

I hope we do a triple play-esk game. That was my favorite of all games...

[Shifter]

Path1:
Based on the Dec 18 blog entry "Well, I’m looking at a game hint right now, and, wow! That is one nice game hint" the hint must be a physical something Frank could see from wherever he was on the afternoon of the 18th (anyone?). Running with the image of a seal holding the weight of a ball on it's nose so it can't eat and misses dinner... the misspell in usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint points to a painting or a play or a sculpture. Google's most popular image of a statue of a seal balancing is this one outside AT&T park in San Francisco (http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM92JR_Seal_Sculpture_San_Francisco_CA). Note that it is balancing a baseball.
Now the other part of the Dec 18 blog entry: "but we’re not quite ready to release it yet. We’ll be doing that on 12/21." Why would it matter what exact date the hint was released? I thought of E-bay and a listing that might expire by kick-off (what a clever place to hide the encryption code for the 2013 game manual...) but I don't think E-bay listings can be set to 2 week duration. However, I think Craigslist expiries can be set to two weeks. Wouldn't it be something if there were a Craigslist item for sale, where the listing was released on exactly December 21/12, in the arts category and in the San Francisco area... and if that something were a statue of a seal balancing a ball...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/art/3482870317.html

It seemed like such a good match but, after contacting the seller, it appears this is all just coincidence.

Path2:
Maybe a release date of Dec 21/12 coincided with something else. For instance, the release of a movie like Cirque Du Soleil's World's Away (http://www.worldsaway3d.com/). Maybe a bit of a stretch but then again, the balancing seal image, pi and the repeated reference to 3 as in three-ring circus?

Path3:
Going back to hint #3 and the rhyming couplet, the last line could be interpreted as bearing defined as "something that supports weight". So, in the art theme, a bear's dinner missed (http://www.wildwings.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_itemBuy.php?itemid=A216634092).

Sorry if this is all going from plausible to busted but I had to get it out of my head. Maybe this hint is all (or mostly) a red herring (seal's dinner?) like the fourth (red) thumbtack on the rick Astley photo.

[gabrielau23]

Am I the only one terrified of the possibility of a 4-team alliance?

No. If it became a 4 robot alliance...Oh. My. Goodness. It'd be pretty cool, though, to be honest with you. Make the field slightly bigger and I think it would work.

[pfreivald]

No. If it became a 4 robot alliance...Oh. My. Goodness. It'd be pretty cool, though, to be honest with you. Make the field slightly bigger and I think it would work.

...or the robots slightly smaller?

[Gregor]

I can't quite imagine what alliance selection would look like for 4v4.

Current 3v3 serpentine works fairly well because the first seed gets the advantage of first pick, but is somewhat disadvantaged by getting the last pick.

What order would the fourth robot be selected in?

[bardd]

No. If it became a 4 robot alliance...Oh. My. Goodness. It'd be pretty cool, though, to be honest with you. Make the field slightly bigger and I think it would work.

I truely think a 4-team alliance will be biting more than FIRST can chew. Strategizing will be a nightmare, as well as driving. It sounds like it would be cool, but in reality I believe it would be a huge mess and nothing more. Too much going on, for referees as well as the audience, and not to mention the drive teams.

Think of the children! And the coaches!

[Jon Stratis]

Think about a 4-team alliance for a minute. That means 4 teams qualifying from every regional, plus Rookie All-Star, Chairman's, and Engineering Inspiration. There are 58 regionals, plus two district championships, plus the hall of fame teams that get in, plus the Einstein teams from last year. And don't forget about the wild card spots... that means a higher percentage of the spots earned at each regional will actually be used than they have in previous years, as we'll eliminate some overlap.

I just don't see how FIRST can expand Champs enough to accomodate the extra 50+ teams a 4-team alliance format would entail. Even with a 3 team alliance, you get close to 400 qualification based spots at Champs!

[pfreivald]

I agree with all that's said... and remember the same things being said when they went from 2v2 to 3v3! :)

(I'm not saying it's going to happen, or even that I think it might... Just that it's definitely a possibility.)

[wilhitern1]

Think about a 4-team alliance for a minute.

That assumes that 4 teams carries over to eliminations. I'd say that was a big assumption...

Neal

[gabrielau23]

That assumes that 4 teams carries over to eliminations. I'd say that was a big assumption...

Neal

No. I think that a 4 team elimination would work just as well. Although it would make scouting a nightmare.

[Phyrxes]

Another consequence of four team alliances is the size of some regional events and number of teams that four team alliances would have in eliminations. Even if you assume a "largish" regional that has 60 teams would have half to 2/3 of the teams in the eliminations if you include those robots placed on standby as replacements, I agree scouting would be a nightmare.

[JJackson]

Also at Waterloo where there are only 30 teams signed up you couldnt have a 4 vs. 4 elimination bracket with 8 alliances.
If Waterloo does fill up and they went with 4 vs. 4 there would only be two teams not in eliminations

[Gregor]

Both the Waterloo and Western Canada regionals have 30 teams registered. Neither could support 4v4 eliminations with 8 alliances.

[orangemoore]

The 8 alliance elimination system could be downsized to just 4 alliances.

[gabrielau23]

Ah whoops. Traditionally our team only does Chesapeake and DC, so both of those are usually filled to 64. Wasn't aware that some only had 30.

[wilhitern1]

Although it would make scouting a nightmare.

If there's one thing that I love, it's a good scouting challenge!

Neal

[maddog175]

Back to the hint (#3): The hint poem can be anagrammed into: "rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos" - so that the hidden message is that there's a hidden message - and so is circular - and so relates to pi - or is just a red herring.

[ReapersRule]

Both the Waterloo and Western Canada regionals have 30 teams registered. Neither could support 4v4 eliminations with 8 alliances.

As someone has mentioned previously, who says the 4v4 would be continued into elimination matches? It could easily be 4v4 for qualifications then drop to 3v3 or even 2v2 for elimination matches. Dropping to 2v2 for eliminations would have the added advantage of lowering the number of teams which qualify for Championships.

[CLandrum3081]

2v2 would be so much less fun for alliance selections! :(

Seriously. The last ones are always so suspenseful...Well, except one off-season I was at this year. Only one of the teams had accurate scouting data and that alliance just crushed everyone else because the others picked robots that (no offense) just danced around the field the whole match. :rolleyes:

Point is, I would appreciate if FIRST would stick to 3v3. Yes, I realize with more regional competitions it makes filling up space for champs...interesting...but I think there are other ways FIRST can deal with this. I'll leave that for other threads, though.

How we came to this from a bunch of numbers in pi code amuses me so. :D

[Gregor]

As someone has mentioned previously, who says the 4v4 would be continued into elimination matches? It could easily be 4v4 for qualifications then drop to 3v3 or even 2v2 for elimination matches. Dropping to 2v2 for eliminations would have the added advantage of lowering the number of teams which qualify for Championships.

I doubt it would drop down to 2v2 again. The first and second alliances would have a ridiculous advantage over the lower seeded teams.

[Bryce Paputa]

I doubt it would drop down to 2v2 again. The first and second alliances would have a ridiculous advantage over the lower seeded teams.

What if the 8th seed picked first? Would that work?

[Richard Wallace]

What if the 8th seed picked first? Would that work?Only if FIRST wants teams to play qualifying matches with the goal of seeding eighth. I wouldn't want that.

[Peyton Yeung]

What if the 8th seed picked first? Would that work?

That would make a lot of teams not to be in the first 4 positions.

[dodar]

If FIRST moved to 4v4, why not just take the picking lineup that IRI uses?

[ReapersRule]

That would make a lot of teams not to be in the first 4 positions.

What if instead of picking the third alliance member in order, they did it one of 2 ways.

A) draw numbers from a hat to determine picking order, or
B) Choose in the order 1,8,2,7,3,6,4,5.

[ksafin]

http://i47.tinypic.com/sfb8ty.jpg

[connor.worley]

How do you send an extra team per regional to championships when it's already packed? Assuming it's 4 teams on the winning alliance.

[dodar]

How do you send an extra team per regional to championships when it's already packed? Assuming it's 4 teams on the winning alliance.

Thats saying that we dont have any kind of double winners at all. It would be good to know if someone could post how many spots were given away because teams had won more than 1 slot at CMP.

[Jon Stratis]

Thats saying that we dont have any kind of double winners at all. It would be good to know if someone could post how many spots were given away because teams had won more than 1 slot at CMP.

They're implementing "Wild Card (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Wild-Card-Slots-for-the-2013-FIRST-Championship)" spots this year. Based on my understanding, any team that wins a second slot at a second regional by winning a regional will give that spot to a team on the finalist alliance. As a result, we're probably going to see much greater utilization of earned spots than we've seen in the past. The only cases we won't see it is for teams that earn their second spot through award (Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration, Rookie All-Star), or who win two spots at a single regional.

Do the math though... There are 58 regionals, two districts, and pre-qualified teams (Original and Sustaining Teams, Hall of Fame Teams, Einstein teams).

Lets focus on those 58 regionals. If we assume 4 teams on the winning alliance, plus 3 teams earning their way through awards, thats over 400 spots FIRST has to make available. Add in the districts and pre-qualified teams, and you're guaranteed to have over 400 teams at Champs. FIRST would have to make some big changes to be able to support that many teams at Champs - there just isn't enough room.

[dodar]

They're implementing "Wild Card (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Wild-Card-Slots-for-the-2013-FIRST-Championship)" spots this year. Based on my understanding, any team that wins a second slot at a second regional by winning a regional will give that spot to a team on the finalist alliance. As a result, we're probably going to see much greater utilization of earned spots than we've seen in the past. The only cases we won't see it is for teams that earn their second spot through award (Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration, Rookie All-Star), or who win two spots at a single regional.

Do the math though... There are 58 regionals, two districts, and pre-qualified teams (Original and Sustaining Teams, Hall of Fame Teams, Einstein teams).

Lets focus on those 58 regionals. If we assume 4 teams on the winning alliance, plus 3 teams earning their way through awards, thats over 400 spots FIRST has to make available. Add in the districts and pre-qualified teams, and you're guaranteed to have over 400 teams at Champs. FIRST would have to make some big changes to be able to support that many teams at Champs - there just isn't enough room.

Exactly though, 58*7=406. So lets say 450 teams.I think there usually is something close to 50 open slots.

[IanW]

If FIRST moved to 4v4, why not just take the picking lineup that IRI uses?

The only reason that works is because IRI is stacked with excellent teams: whether you pick 1st or 8th, you can still pick an alliance with a good chance of winning. At your average regional, there is barely enough depth in the field of robots to have a competitive elimination tournament as is. Using a picking lineup like IRI would merely confer a massive advantage to the top few seeds.

[Kevin Thorp]

Seal's self-titled 1994 album did include his best selling song "Kiss from a Rose". FIRST tries to pick catchy phrases for their game titles. Another song on that album is Bring it On.

[Kevin Thorp]

Another thing to ponder: here's the Seal of New Hampshire. Note the ship under construction. Water game! I know you're all groaning, but FIRST can simulate a water game without using water. They simulated low gravity in Lunacy. On a side note, one of Dean Kamen's "toys" is a LARC-V (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQhonHTIk0) amphibious cargo vehicle.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Seal_of_New_Hampshire.svg

[ReapersRule]

Seal's self-titled 1994 album did include his best selling song "Kiss from a Rose". FIRST tries to pick catchy phrases for their game titles. Another song on that album is Bring it On.


I think we're going too far away from the hint. What have we had in previous years is immediately obvious after the game is released without much analysis

2008's coordinates and direction for the tortoise and the hare statue

2009's MOONfish and poem

2010's pic of a field part and the extra gate

2011's pic of the FIRST logo and (forgot the person's name) who sings Locomotion.


Every single one was extremely obvious after the game was released. After all of this analysis, it seems obvious to me that we are over analyzing, and far from what the hint intended.

[pandamonium]

What. if qual matches had 8 or 9 robots on the fielf and then finals went down to 3 v3. Sort of like the coop bridge not being used in finals last year

[smtoney]

Both the Waterloo and Western Canada regionals have 30 teams registered. Neither could support 4v4 eliminations with 8 alliances.

Who is to say that there will still be 8 alliances. That is not sacred. FTC this year went to only 4 elimination alliances at every event.

If FRC was going to 4v4 and went to 6 elimination alliances (giving 1 and 2 seed a bye) then the same number of teams would be participating in eliminations.

Not that I have any clue if FRC is going to be 3v3 or 4v4, just don't hold any thing as sacred never to be changed. (I'm not with an FRC team but I sure enjoy the hint thread)

Stan

[midway78224]

I look at this a different way i guess. All hints aside. If i look at pass games starting from 2011.

2011- Logomotion (2007 Rack 'n' Roll with a twist)
Instead of us lifting robots at the end of the match we have minibots for a end game.

2012- Rebound Rumble (2006 Aim High with a twist)
Instead of us having ramps near the scoring zone they were in the middle of the field.

2013- ???????? (2005 Triple Play with a twist maybe)
Any guess what this year game twist will be.

Just my guess though. All the 3's coming up in the hint and the past game trends; i think it might be a remake of Triple Play with a twist and if i remember correctly didn't they try a new field layout that year and ended up changing it back because it didn't work to well in the first week of regionals. I also remember that this was the first year they went from a 2v2 2004 to a 3v3 2005. Maybe another change.

[Siri]

I think we're going too far away from the hint. What have we had in previous years is immediately obvious after the game is released without much analysis

2008's coordinates and direction for the tortoise and the hare statue

2009's MOONfish and poem

2010's pic of a field part and the extra gate

2011's pic of the FIRST logo and (forgot the person's name) who sings Locomotion.


Every single one was extremely obvious after the game was released. After all of this analysis, it seems obvious to me that we are over analyzing, and far from what the hint intended.While I think you're correct that there's a bit of undue stretching going on (isn't there always?), those aren't entirely fair comparisons. Do you remember the most recent poem hint we've had?

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

...Can you [plural] even guess what game this is? Poems can be rough, and I'd argue that was easier (more useful information/cross-checking).
'09

[dodar]

While I think you're correct that there's a bit of undue stretching going on (isn't there always?), those aren't entirely fair comparisons. Do you remember the most recent poem hint we've had?

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

...Can you [plural] even guess what game this is? Poems can be rough, and I'd argue that was easier (more useful information/cross-checking).
'09

That is the 2009 game hint and my brother figured it out. You have to go to Google maps and literally go to where the clue says to and you can put it together about what Lunacy was.

[ReapersRule]

While I think you're correct that there's a bit of undue stretching going on (isn't there always?), those aren't entirely fair comparisons. Do you remember the most recent poem hint we've had?

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

...Can you [plural] even guess what game this is? Poems can be rough, and I'd argue that was easier (more useful information/cross-checking).
'09


This is the exact poem I was referring to from 2009. If you actually go to the locations on google maps (or don't, just read it and think about it) it is quite obvious what each line refers to.

"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount" Zamboni shop - low coefficient of friction, like ice

"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix" the u haul - and we connected to our trailers

"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka" - forgot what was there, but we had to pick up the empty cells.

"then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover" - if I need to explain this one, there will be epic facepalms.


It may have made no sense at the time, but it doesn't seem that complex now.

[alectronic]

"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka" - forgot what was there, but we had to pick up the empty cells.

IIRC, that was the location of the "moonrock" manufacturer, in MN

[Gadeer Zbedat]

2013 game hint ??

[maddog175]

Back to the hint (#3): All of the letters of the decoded poem can be anagrammed into: "rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos" - so that the hidden message is that there's a hidden message!? Note that it's circular - and so relates to pi.

[Siri]

This is the exact poem I was referring to from 2009. If you actually go to the locations on google maps (or don't, just read it and think about it) it is quite obvious what each line refers to.

"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount" Zamboni shop - low coefficient of friction, like ice

"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix" the u haul - and we connected to our trailers

"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka" - forgot what was there, but we had to pick up the empty cells.

"then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover" - if I need to explain this one, there will be epic facepalms.


It may have made no sense at the time, but it doesn't seem that complex now.Yes, I figured it out then. What I'm saying is that is not "immediately obvious after the game is released without much analysis". You list it as an example along side things like the 2010 ball return CAD, but it isn't. Even after the game, you still have to do considerable work and stretching to back-discover what it's talking about.

This 2013 hint may well be the same way, except even stretchier because it has less information. If you weren't around for the 2009 hint, even if you knew Lunacy (which is why I asked "you [plural]"), you wouldn't be able to connect the poem to the game without serious research, and even then it's more difficult that things like realizing Little Eva sings "Locomotion". This 2013 version is like taking the 2009 poem, and replacing all the useful proper nouns with word riddles while removing the verbs.

The closest recent example is the 2008 GPS coordinates, but even that's obvious once you know what's there--2009 still isn't obvious even once you know, for instance, that Blip Toys is located at 15255 Minnetonka Blvd, Minnetonka, MN 55345.

[Foster]

My favorite JVN quote is:
To ANY Robowrangler students reading this thread: If any of you ask me about the game hint, at any time, you will be assigned 4 hours of shop cleaning duty during week 1. No exceptions.

Oh wait, cross-posted from the "inspire thread" sorry ...

... or not :rolleyes:

As a young person, I always wanted time to speed by.

As an older person, I want time to slow down so I can savor every day.

As a mentor, I want the time from the 26th of December to kickoff to pass in a hummingbird heartbeat ....

[gabrielau23]

My favorite JVN quote is:


Oh wait, cross-posted from the "inspire thread" sorry ...

... or not :rolleyes:

As a young person, I always wanted time to speed by.

As an older person, I want time to slow down so I can savor every day.

As a mentor, I want the time from the 26th of December to kickoff to pass in a hummingbird heartbeat ....

I'm young right now, and I want everything to just slooooooooooooooooooooow down. Everything's been going by so fast lately. And lolz at the 4 hours of shop work.

[Flimsor]

I think we're going too far away from the hint. What have we had in previous years is immediately obvious after the game is released without much analysis

I agree. I think we need to step back and look at this a little more simply. Each clue is probably just a generalization of an important part of the game. I'm thinkin' that the Rick Astley hint refers to the end game, and that the decoded version of the other hint is the actions that the robot has to go through to score a point (we'd have to figure that out though). 3 is something extremely important to the game, but we may not be able to figure that out until we've seen the game.


2013- ???????? (2005 Triple Play with a twist maybe)
Any guess what this year game twist will be.


I'm thinkin' that that's what's going to happen. I was looking through the animation of Triple Play and noticed that there was a pad that the human player had to stand on and if they got off to load a game piece the robot would turn off. My first thoughts were Kinect implementation. We haven't heard much of that this year, and we already know that they wanted to improve its function in the game, so it wouldn't have been a clue anyways. That may be part of the twist thought. I'm also thinking that they're will be a different field setup and a better end game.

[CalTran]

Return of the human player pad? XD




I'm thinkin' that that's what's going to happen. I was looking through the animation of Triple Play and noticed that there was a pad that the human player had to stand on and if they got off to load a game piece the robot would turn off. My first thoughts were Kinect implementation. We haven't heard much of that this year, and we already know that they wanted to improve its function in the game, so it wouldn't have been a clue anyways. That may be part of the twist thought. I'm also thinking that they're will be a different field setup and a better end game.

I thought it was earlier than 2006 that the human player pad was...because I was kidding when I said return of it. :rolleyes: I don't think the Kinect will be returning either because it's not in the rookie kit, and I doubt that Microsoft is up for donating another 3000 of them. I think barely 10% of teams ended up using the hybrid station, though some (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaOiaC0I8pY) more than others.

I've been saying it for a while too, I think Triple Play-esque is the way the GDC swung for this year. They're somewhat overdue for an unconventional object game. As far as the 4 robot alliances / 3 alliances, I just have to say one thing. No. Not happening.

[ksafin]

http://i45.tinypic.com/30jr8r7.jpg

Relevant?

Normal is lame anyway ;)

[jacobjacob16]

Team 3959 now has a forum. Please share this with your friends! Sign up today to start talking about anything FRC! Thanks!(:
http://frcforum.forumotion.com/

[Kevin Thorp]

... i think it might be a remake of Triple Play with a twist ...
Maybe this is the twist?
https://www.box.com/shared/static/piko0xaw7f3a1p02il2k.jpg

[Littleboy]

That could be a lot like a 3D Logomotion.

[gabrielau23]

Maybe this is the twist?
https://www.box.com/shared/static/piko0xaw7f3a1p02il2k.jpg

The middle piece would cause some problems. In Logomotion this was avoided because they were all tubes that could be grabbed, but I don't see this one as being easy to grab and hang. Then again, who said we had to hang? And the pieces don't have to be exactly like this.

[orangemoore]

Maybe the circle would be a sphere because that would go with the team of the 3D models

[Gregor]

The middle piece would cause some problems. In Logomotion this was avoided because they were all tubes that could be grabbed, but I don't see this one as being easy to grab and hang. Then again, who said we had to hang? And the pieces don't have to be exactly like this.

FTC teams are pretty good at grabbing cylinders.

[shreyasjoshihts]

Maybe this is the twist?
https://www.box.com/shared/static/piko0xaw7f3a1p02il2k.jpg

The first line in Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" is:

"There used to be a graying tower alone on the sea."

I wonder if this might refer to a tower in the middle of the playing field(sea) from which robots(seals) have to hang these game pieces(fish).

[Jon Stratis]

Maybe this is the twist?
https://www.box.com/shared/static/piko0xaw7f3a1p02il2k.jpg

Nw I'm going to have nightmares about trying to design a mechanism that can handle all 3 of those parts!

[CalTran]

Nw I'm going to have nightmares about trying to design a mechanism that can handle all 3 of those parts!

Just design something that will grab the material, not the entire part. Something that'll grab the PVC tube.

While I think that it'll be a Triple Play remake, I think this specific remake would be too close to Logomotion for the GDC to pick

[Robert Cawthon]

Nw I'm going to have nightmares about trying to design a mechanism that can handle all 3 of those parts!

Just a hook on an arm or a fork lift to go all the way through. :D

[Sean Raia]

Just a hook on an arm or a fork lift to go all the way through. :D

Perhaps an inflatable bag that can easily be filled/emptied with compressed air would suffice ;)

[DonRotolo]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT
Um, I have not seen this mentioned in this thread yet:

Submitted by Maddog on Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:17.

Having a little time on my hands, I used an online, iterative anagram solver, to rearrange the poem into this:

"rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos"

So, the hidden message is that there is a hidden message !?!?
(from here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint?page=1))

Is that as strange to you as it is to me?

[JJackson]

I could deal with those game pieces

[Gregor]

I like how the this thread has devolved into designing game piece manipulators for a non-existant game. :)

Don's post seems promising.

[gabrielau23]

Just a hook on an arm or a fork lift to go all the way through. :D

I think the main problem with that would be the potential for the piece to swing or twist around the PVC tube. Designing a manipulator for one piece, say, the cylinder, wouldn't be so hard, but designing a manipulator that could handle the pyramid and cylinder (the cube is the easiest) together might be a challenge because of the angled sides. Then again, I could conceivably see an arm reaching through it that could go up and down to slide the game on or off the arm. Lol we don't even know if that's going to be the game....

[gabrielau23]

I like how the this thread has devolved into designing game piece manipulators for a non-existant game. :)

Don's post seems promising.

Agreed. The anagram was pretty crazy. Could it be a coincidence? My heart says yes, my head says no. :ahh:

[Flimsor]

I like how the this thread has devolved into designing game piece manipulators for a non-existant game. :)

At least we're working on how to play the game for once, haha. Normally we'd just speculate, just to speculate. No one ever gets close enough to actually get any advantage and start coming up with ideas.

[Andrew Lawrence]

At least we're working on how to play the game for once, haha. Normally we'd just speculate, just to speculate. No one ever gets close enough to actually get any advantage and start coming up with ideas.

Play what game? Everyone's combined knowledge of the game so far is 0.

[Richard Wallace]

Is that as strange to you as it is to me?If you've ever mailed in your box tops and waited, impatiently, for several weeks until your secret decoder ring arrived -- only to discover that the secret message was a reminder to drink your Ovaltine -- well, a secret message telling you that there is a secret message does not seem strange at all. ;)

[AllieS4246]

After reading a wide array of threads, I've investigated the most common ideas. After doing so, I have determined that they all stop soon after the obvious. After, I soon conducted a simple web search with the game hit. After looking through 4 or so pages, many scripts from the Titanic movie came up. "A ROSE KISSED" would make sense pointing directly at the main character, Rose, and her on going romance. "A GREAT SINGER" is a bit harder to make a connection with, but the Titanic did have many great performers on board, and it could be pegging the performance of "My Heart will go On" made for the movie. "A DINNER MISSED" could be pointing at the scene in which the sinking ship disrupts a dinner party, and "HOLDING WEIGHT" refers to not only the sea holding the ship for many hours, but also the what is still on the ship today.

As far as 3 is referenced:
the movie came out in 1997, 3 years before 2000.
Jack was on the 3rd class.
Titanic was one of 3 White Star Line Ships of its class.
It picked up passengers from 3 major cities before going across the Atlantic.
It took 3 hours to go down.

Now, I personally think that the 3 in the hint is not of any if so little importance, after all it is the most common number in the world.

So with this what might the game be?
-Keep the ship from sinking.
-Try to reclaim "items" from a wreck.

These games wouldn't be in water, but how long have people said it was a water game? This is about as close as FIRST will ever get.

[Flimsor]

Play what game? Everyone's combined knowledge of the game so far is 0.

I meant coming up with a solution to a possible game. We're still nowhere near figuring this out.

[DonRotolo]

Agreed. The anagram was pretty crazy. Could it be a coincidence? My heart says yes, my head says no. :ahh:There are no coincidences, and especially none of this magnitude.

If you've ever mailed in your box tops and waited, impatiently, for several weeks until your secret decoder ring arrived -- only to discover that the secret message was a reminder to drink your Ovaltine -- well, a secret message telling you that there is a secret message does not seem strange at all. ;)Indeed. Perhaps that is what Frank meant when he wrote that it was a really good hint, in that it was very clever. Which it is, IMHO.

I meant coming up with a solution to a possible game. We're still nowhere near figuring this out....and we never will be, at least not until this coming Saturday. Game hints are fun for speculation, but they never actually tell us anything about the game. At least, they haven't yet.

[Siri]

Um, I have not seen this mentioned in this thread yet:

(from here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint?page=1))

Is that as strange to you as it is to me?Wow, incredibly. Unfortunately, following its advice (finding other rearrangements of the letters) is even more confusing. ::ouch:: If it's not a coincidence that it spells that message, is it a coincidence that it spells any of the other combinations?

There are 28,331 recognized words* in those 48 letters. I played with it (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=#) for maybe 15 minutes and found at least a half dozen well-articulated and absolutely terrifying games possibilities. In fact, I'd venture that there are literally thousands of ideas one could articulate with this collection of letters. How to sift through them...


*EDIT: To put this in perspective, this means that 1 in every 8 words included in the entire, unabridged Webster's dictionary [11th Ed. Collegiate] can be made from those 48 letters. (Maybe more, as it appears the anagram solver's database is smaller.)

More than 1 in every 8 words in the English language. ...Is it just me or is the room spinning?

[gabrielau23]

Wow, incredibly. Unfortunately, following its advice (finding other rearrangements of the letters) is even more confusing. ::ouch:: If it's not a coincidence that it spells that message, is it a coincidence that it spells any of the other combinations?

There are 28,331 recognized words* in those 48 letters. I played with it (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=#) for maybe 15 minutes and found at least a half dozen well-articulated and absolutely terrifying games possibilities. In fact, I'd venture that there are literally thousands of ideas one could articulate with this collection of letters. How to sift through them...


*EDIT: To put this in perspective, this means that 1 in every 8 words included in the entire, unabridged Webster's dictionary [11th Ed. Collegiate] can be made from those 48 letters. (Maybe more, as it appears the anagram solver's database is smaller.)

More than 1 in every 8 words in the English language. ...Is it just me or is the room spinning?

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Sorry, I don't really feel like going through 28831 words, lol. However, I don't think we actually need to. Probably just go through the ones where the first word actually makes sense.

[rhinobot]

Good job 500+ replies

13368

[rsisk]

Submitted by Maddog on Fri, 12/28/2012 - 18:17.

Having a little time on my hands, I used an online, iterative anagram solver, to rearrange the poem into this:

"rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos"

So, the hidden message is that there is a hidden message !?!?


Unfortunately there is no protection on the re-entrant clue eventually causing us to blow our stack

[Siri]

Unfortunately there is no protection on the re-entrant clue eventually causing us to blow our stackExactly. Honestly, while all 28,331 words do not make sense, there are literally thousands that do.

For instance, even after picking 2 words from among the longest sensible options, say, "disintegration" and "wearisomeness", :P there are still almost four thousand (well, 3,816) words left. And that's using two options that could well be a half dozen letters longer each than any of the words in the actual clue. Even two of the maximum length: "meaninglessness" and "interrogatories" ;) still leave over a thousand additional words in the remaining 18 letters.

[mrmummert]

Ever see the CIA recrutiers at Championship? I remember them being at Atlanta
in 2006. Maybe they have you all doing this to show the CIA (and maybe the NSA) you guys might be able to break code (or write it)...laughs....better
hope its not actually written in Navaho or need a enigma machine for this.
But the good side of this is that all this speculation gets ideas and the old grey matter going for the up coming season and thats a good thing. Sorta sports
for the mind warm up.

[Bill_B]

I thought of anagrams very early in the hint cycle. Rick astley didn't give much. Nor did his song's title. Even tossing "pi" into it didn't improve things.

Don has struck something of a phrase lode. Did you consider the G/T duality of the original code, Don? Of course, trying it in your anagram won't help making a more "sensible" version without going back through the iteration. You just have to start again with a differing number of Gs and Ts to see what pops out.

All the numerical stats given by others about words since then are curious, but no one is offering any alternate phrases to bemuse us. Wearisomeness might have as a meaning something like half-a-thousand messages in futile speculation. Here's hoping the game, when revealed, will be neither wearisome nor cause disintegrations of any significant sort.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

I think that anagrams are futile. The GDC wants the hints to be crackable, and I don't think they expect us to find one of 28,000 possible answers. Haven't we done enough already to crack any possible codes, and we can move on to the words themselves?

[DonRotolo]

Don has struck something of a phrase lode. Did you consider the G/T duality of the original code, Don? Of course, trying it in your anagram ...
Much as I would like to take credit, it wasn't my anagram. I found it as a response to Frank's blog on hint #3, I linked to it in my post.

Hmmm, maybe there is another anagram in there? Not 28k words though (thanks Siri) but who knows cares?

[vinnie]

The GDC wants the hints to be crackable, and I don't think they expect us to find one of 28,000 possible answers.
Like it's been said before, I'm sure someone here has already deciphered the meaning of the hint, but no one knows who got the answer correct until kickoff. Although I would imagine that the GDC would use a different game if the models on the last page were actually the game pieces :D
I love reading this thread and I can't wait to see what you all come up with when we actually get to the competition!

[ElectricVeteran]

Have been reading for an couple of days andhad a thought. What if the poem is like the name or synonimous (I spell horribly) to the name. Just since the first two lines point to the name Seal, it would make sense the last two line would do the same.
The Rick Astley pick, vague as it may be, might actually be somhow contected to the game.
Has anyone else starting to in threes?

[Foster]

Ok kids, step away from the letters and go back to the original decode.

Seals. Balls. We thought that it would be Seals balancing balls, but no It's our robots balancing on balls!!

Just found this clip from CMU about robots on top of balls. (http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/31/techcrunch-makers-bossa-nova-robotics-mobi/) Now it all makes sense, the smaller frames, the new flexi parts, new gyro components!!!

Even better than the water game, it's a BALL game!!!

[IisMathwizard]

Wow... a balancing game would be quite a challenge... but isn't that what makes FRC fun?

I have a few concerns however:

If we do have a game where robots balance on top of balls, doesn't that sound dangerous to not only the robots but to teams attempting to retrieve their robots at the end of the match?

Is the cRIO update speed fast enough to allow for tele-operation and balancing (separate task I would imagine)?


I would think the danger part would definitely be the part to rule out this possibility.. However, I do think it would be a ball balancing game. Last year was a shooter.. so you know how this trend normally goes.. Arm game, but this year, the arm balances balls. Or maybe we use the arm to get the balls somewhere that requires balancing the balls atop it.

I hope the game masters are getting a good chuckle at this thread because it is almost torturous for me.

[Orion.DeYoe]

As a robot inspector, I am looking at the clue slightly differently. What if the clue was telling us more about the robot and less about the game? Every year lots of teams have “issues” with bumpers and understanding that what they call their robot’s “frame” and what FIRST calls the “FRAME PERIMETER” is not necessarily the same thing. Sometime back, I think in one of Bill’s blogs, teams were told that FIRST will be taking a hard look at the bumper rules this year to try to alleviate some of the confusion and frustration observed by both teams and inspectors. Maybe that was clue #1? Next we have also been told that the KitBot chassis will be a different this year. Couple that with the published box dimensions that (if you take as fact and not a typo) could lead one to conclude the KitBot chassis may be smaller this year. Let’s call that clue #2. Then the established clue #3 seems to refer to the singer Seal, missing something (i.e. “sliming down”), yet maintaining weight. This leads me to think that this year the bumpers must completely “seal” the robot (no gaps, no minimum bumper lengths, etc.). Also, I speculate that the robot must fit within the sizing box WITH bumpers attached. The sizing box may or may not be changed to accommodate a new robot dimension but the sizing box will include some sort of built in gauge or measurement system to check for bumper zone violations. The robot weight will remain at approximately 140 lbs (120 lbs + bumpers). I wouldn’t be surprised if the robots will still be sized 28”x38” but that will include the bumpers and the weight limit will be increased to 140 lbs but still won’t include the weight of the battery.

Wow. I must say this is really well thought through. I think you may have it.
The robots do get a bit large when you put bumpers on them. The bumpers end up being about 3.5-3.75 inches thick (.75 in plywood + 2.5 in + Fabric + Fasteners) on a side. This adds up to 7-7.5 inches per axis of frame dimension. So if the size limit is 38 in x 28 in and you subtract 7-7.5 in well that gives you a 30 in x 20 in frame which, coincidentally, fits within the AndyMark frame kit nicely.
Like I said, I would bet that you have it (assuming we're not missing something in the KOP list). I can't say I'm happy about it though, I really liked the size. Like other people have said, the large dimensions are what make FRC challenging and fun.

[IndySam]

Wow. I must say this is really well thought through. I think you may have it.
The robots do get a bit large when you put bumpers on them. The bumpers end up being about 3.5-3.75 inches thick (.75 in plywood + 2.5 in + Fabric + Fasteners) on a side. This adds up to 7-7.5 inches per axis of frame dimension. So if the size limit is 38 in x 28 in and you subtract 7-7.5 in well that gives you a 30 in x 20 in frame which, coincidentally, fits within the AndyMark frame kit nicely.
Like I said, I would bet that you have it (assuming we're not missing something in the KOP list). I can't say I'm happy about it though, I really liked the size. Like other people have said, the large dimensions are what make FRC challenging and fun.

But if we would be using the same sizing box would mushroom bots be allowed? That would only make the frame smaller not the robot. We would still have the same sized robots.

[nathan_hui]

My guess is that if the GDC is shrinking the frame down so that the bumpers fit in the sizing cage, the cage probably won't change. That said, it probably means that the GDC is doing away with Frame Perimeter distinction and flat out stating "The robot, bumpers included, must fit in a x by y by z box at the beginning of the match. Period."

[Ernst]

Wouldn't it defeat the purpose of the bumpers if a mushroom bot is allowed? If the robot frame perimeter can extend as far as the bumpers, collisions would still occur between metal frames instead of pool noodles, rendering the bumpers nearly useless. They'd just be squishy reminders of team numbers.

[nathan_hui]

Likewise, manipulators sticking out of robots don't contact bumpers, and probably cause more damage than the frame sticking out.

[ElectricVeteran]

I've been reading for a few DAYS now and I have what I think might be an original thought on this thread (I see an original idea about every other post). Maybe the clue is the name of or synonymous to the name of the game. Hear me out. The first line points towards a single word "Seal" (that's if we are on the right track). Maybe the next two lines refer to another word/name. I think the answer is somewhere on Frank's blog post from after the Christmas dinner. Any thoughts? Oh. I also think the size change is going to happen. Might just be for the belt drive system but the frame in that kit shank.

[Andrew Lawrence]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Manual password, anyone?




*Please note I do not endorse trying to open the manual before kickoff, I'm just implying it could be something that doesn't have to do with the game itself*

[coalhot]

Manual password, anyone?




*Please note I do not endorse trying to open the manual before kickoff, I'm just implying it could be something that doesn't have to do with the game itself*

Would be interesting, though I doubt FIRST would give out the password as a hint...

[Kevin Thorp]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the robots will still be sized 28”x38” but that will include the bumpers and the weight limit will be increased to 140 lbs but still won’t include the weight of the battery.

I would expect a weight reduction if the size is reduced. 140 lbs. is a lot of weight to pick off the floor multiple times a day. There's a proper way to lift, but I'm sure we've all seen kids in a hurry, doing dumb things to their spinal columns.

[Steven Donow]

I would expect a weight reduction if the size is reduced. 140 lbs. is a lot of weight to pick off the floor multiple times a day. There's a proper way to lift, but I'm sure we've all seen kids in a hurry, doing dumb things to their spinal columns.

I would assume the number 140 was chosen because in past years, the overall weight of the robot was restricted to 120 lbs of robot+20 lbs per set of bumper. This would just simply be combining the weights of the two components, if, for the purposes of robot sizing, bumpers are technically part of the "robot"(as defined in past years' manuals)

[ENIAC]

When does the encrypted manual get released?

[Andrew Lawrence]

When does the encrypted manual get released?

Tomorrow.

[inkspell4]

I would assume the number 140 was chosen because in past years, the overall weight of the robot was restricted to 120 lbs of robot+20 lbs per set of bumper. This would just simply be combining the weights of the two components, if, for the purposes of robot sizing, bumpers are technically part of the "robot"(as defined in past years' manuals)

You could always use the handle things that are available on andymark to lift the robot

[cmrnpizzo14]

I think we are getting clogged up with game ideas that are not possible.......

I made a new thread for all people wanting to take a turn as the GDC
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1206297#post1206297

Have at it!

[joelg236]

I'm sorry if this has been posted before (I just don't have the time to sift through 500 replies :p)

I think there might be a pattern going on with the length of the numbers. It occurred to me that it is certainly possible that the number mean absolutely nothing, to distract us from what the hint means. So,

The length of the numbers are as follows:
2 8, 12
12 10
2 12, 12
14 12
If you find the sum of each line, you get
22
22
26
26
This is obviously a pattern of sorts. What is means, I am still in the process of figuring that out. But just some food for thought.

[Troger]

Other than these hints i have found some patterns in the FRC Game history. Take a look:
In the past 10 years the games have alternated in themes. Sports, Science, Sports, Science... look:
2012-Rebound Rumble: Sports (Basketball)
2011-Logomotion: Science (elevation challenge)
2010-Break Away:Sports (Soccer)
2009- Lunancy: Science (elevating challenge)
2008-FIRST Overdrive: Sports (relay race/track similarities)
2007- Rack 'N' Roll: Science (elevation challenge similar to 2011)
2006-Aim High: Sports (Basketball)
2005-Triple Play; Science (elevated score)
2004-FIRST FRENZY;Raising The Bar; Sports (Volleyball)
2003-Stack Attack: Science (stack things high)

SO i would expect we would have to get something scored in a high up goal, maybe on that was 3' high perhaps. and possibly circular.

[nathan_hui]

http://www.andymark.com/category-s/419.htm

Just saw this about the 2012 drive base kit... Did that say 36 inch x 36 inch? This may be what it always says but it just didnt seem right to me.
That's true. The kit has to be modified in order to be FIRST legal. All the channels come as 36" sections, two of which you cut to make the long or wide configurations.

[meaubry]

I'd go with the following take off from what others have alluded to -

A ROSE, KISSED = a song Kissed by a Rose that was sung by the singer Seal - and seals like to balance on a big ball, while balancing another ball on the tip of their noses, but - the initial song lyric does speak of a Tower, also.

SINGER GREAT = Elvis, the King of Rock and “ROLL”, something that can be done with a ball, “rolling balls”, as well as, balancing balls.

A DINNER, MISSED = slang term for Stood Up, as in something that might need to be accomplished during the game, ie: “stand something up”.

HOLDING WEIGHT = to maintain/balance ones weight could refer to another teeter totter device or placement of weights in order to “achieve a balance”.

not exactly sure what it all means when put together though, what fun ...

[maddog175]

I think that anagrams are futile. The GDC wants the hints to be crackable, and I don't think they expect us to find one of 28,000 possible answers. Haven't we done enough already to crack any possible codes, and we can move on to the words themselves?

Just resolved some access issues (or I might have jumped in sooner). The post on the FRC Blog Hint #3 page was mine (anagram: "rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos"). It was a fun little exercise. Given that it uses all of the letters from the poem, with reasonable phrasing, it could very well mean something. I like that it's "circular" (relates to pi). And, anagrams HAVE been used in the past (e.g. to get "drive straight, turn left", a few years back).

Hopefully, it'll all be clear in a few days.

Of course, the clues also point to a water game (as they always do, it seems): Dew (water) kisses a rose. Wayne Wade (water reference) recorded "I Kissed a Rose" in the 70s. An anchor (water!) is a holding weight.

[ENIAC]

Just resolved some access issues (or I might have jumped in sooner). The post on the FRC Blog Hint #3 page was mine (anagram: "rearrange letters, showing message hiding inside, kiddos"). It was a fun little exercise. Given that it uses all of the letters from the poem, with reasonable phrasing, it could very well mean something. I like that it's "circular" (relates to pi). And, anagrams HAVE been used in the past (e.g. to get "drive straight, turn left", a few years back).

Hopefully, it'll all be clear in a few days.

Of course, the clues also point to a water game (as they always do, it seems): Dew (water) kisses a rose. Wayne Wade (water reference) recorded "I Kissed a Rose" in the 70s. An anchor (water!) is a holding weight.

!!

Wayne Wade (water reference) recorded "I Kissed a Rose" in the 70s.

We have assumed that Seal was the singer referenced, but this song fits the words better. The rose is the object being kissed, rather than the other way around.

Then again, who knows.

[Kevin Thorp]

A DINNER, MISSED = slang term for Stood Up, as in something that might need to be accomplished during the game, ie: “stand something up”.

I think you're on to something there. What about 4" DWV pipe for the game pieces? It's cheap & sturdy, and since it's designed to carry water, that could be the GDC's inside joke. It would be a challenging task to stand them up on end. Even more challenging to stack them! FTC used smaller pipes a couple years ago.
https://www.box.com/shared/static/n3s0dea7tcl0nbswlc25.jpg
Edit: I inserted our 2011 robot for scale.

[Kevin Thorp]

Wayne Wade (water reference) recorded "I Kissed a Rose" in the 70s.

Wayne = wane = "to decrease in size, extent, or degree"
Wade = weighed

Decrease weight?

[Walter Deitzler]

Wayne = wane = "to decrease in size, extent, or degree"
Wade = weighed

Decrease weight?

But I thought the weight was being held! :eek:

Edit:: As in the weight allotment is going to stay the same (my interpretation of this hint)

[Maniix3]

- The official clue seems to have a connection to Pi, and the photograph is of a singer named Rick Astley who had a hit song in 1987 title “I’m never going to give you up.”
- Ironically(?) this song became number one on the charts on March 14th (3/14)
- March 14th is also known as “Pi Day” (3.14…..)
So my best guess is the game pieces this year will be “Pie” shaped and we may be required to pick up as many pieces as we can and need to retain them. My though on the later is that we might have to defend the pieces from being removed or “de-scored” (“Never going to give you up”) by an opposing alliance.

This is the guess from members of our team. What do you think?

[Botwoon]

I think you're on to something there. What about 4" DWV pipe for the game pieces? It's cheap & sturdy, and since it's designed to carry water, that could be the GDC's inside joke. It would be a challenging task to stand them up on end. Even more challenging to stack them! FTC used smaller pipes a couple years ago.
https://www.box.com/shared/static/n3s0dea7tcl0nbswlc25.jpg
Edit: I inserted our 2011 robot for scale.

And the pipes are filled with water for weight.

Gentlemen, we have our water game.

[dellagd]

I still hold firm on the whatever the game is, there will just be a clear cube of water hanging in some corner of the field, and the GDC will say that its a water game.

Also, Im expecting the game video to go something like this:

The standard FIRST logo appears on the screen. "Hello, and welcome to the 2013 FIRST Robotics competition season..." All of a sudden rolling waves appear on the screen and then the announcer says "and this year's game: "Pool Power".... Suddenly the screen turns black and you think you've lost your Kickoff feed until you hear the words "Just Kidding!"

[ttldomination]

The standard FIRST logo appears on the screen. "Hello, and welcome to the 2013 FIRST Robotics competition season..." All of a sudden rolling waves appear on the screen and then the announcer says "and this year's game: "Pool Power".... Suddenly the screen turns black and you think you've lost your Kickoff feed until you hear the words "Just Kidding!"

I'd expect that more if the kickoff was on April 1st every year.

- Sunny G.

[tosTITOs]

A Dinner missed - A dumb waiter misses dinner.
Holding weight- A dumb-waiter is a set of pulleys that lower food up and down multiple levels of a building.

This game is going to involve a pulley system.

[JJackson]

I still hold firm on the whatever the game is, there will just be a clear cube of water hanging in some corner of the field, and the GDC will say that its a water game.

Or they put water between the driver station glass and send bubbles through it

[Shifter]

Wow, incredibly. Unfortunately, following its advice (finding other rearrangements of the letters) is even more confusing. ::ouch:: If it's not a coincidence that it spells that message, is it a coincidence that it spells any of the other combinations?

There are 28,331 recognized words* in those 48 letters. I played with it (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=#) for maybe 15 minutes and found at least a half dozen well-articulated and absolutely terrifying games possibilities. In fact, I'd venture that there are literally thousands of ideas one could articulate with this collection of letters. How to sift through them...


*EDIT: To put this in perspective, this means that 1 in every 8 words included in the entire, unabridged Webster's dictionary [11th Ed. Collegiate] can be made from those 48 letters. (Maybe more, as it appears the anagram solver's database is smaller.)

More than 1 in every 8 words in the English language. ...Is it just me or is the room spinning?

"SONG HINT IS RED HERRING,
END GAME'S SIDE GOAL IS DIKE WATERS"

fits (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=song+hint+is+red+herring+end+games+side+goal +is+dike+waters)

[dellagd]

"SONG HINT IS RED HERRING,
END GAME'S SIDE GOAL IS DIKE WATERS"

fits (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=song+hint+is+red+herring+end+games+side+goal +is+dike+waters)

Why did we even go into the anagrams... Oh geez...

[ENIAC]

I noticed on the KOP website that the checklist is supposed to be released today. Any idea when that's coming?

ALSO:

On the game manual website, this file (http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item9999991356551911.pdf) was posted in the team updates section.
The url: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item9999991356551911.pdf

It was created on 12/27/2012 at 10:33:09 PM.

There's a lot of threes in there.

[dellagd]

I noticed on the KOP website that the checklist is supposed to be released today. Any idea when that's coming?

Im excited to see that...

[joelg236]

On the game manual website, this file (http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item9999991356551911.pdf) was posted in the team updates section.
The url: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item9999991356551911.pdf

It was created on 12/27/2012 at 10:33:09 PM.

There's a lot of threes in there.

What are those supposed to be? They both appear to be 2 page blank documents with page numbers on the bottom...

[ENIAC]

What are those supposed to be? They both appear to be 2 page blank documents with page numbers on the bottom...

I imagine it to be a test page, and it could be nothing more. It just seemed like a piece of info not in the thread yet.

[Robert Cawthon]

"SONG HINT IS RED HERRING,
END GAME'S SIDE GOAL IS DIKE WATERS"

fits (http://boulter.com/anagram/?letters=A+ROSE%2C+KISSED+SINGER+GREAT+A+DINNER%2C +MISSED+HOLDING+WEIGHT&words=song+hint+is+red+herring+end+games+side+goal +is+dike+waters)

I am impressed with your self controll not to mention "Water Game!" after your anagram. (The implication is good enough.)

[Jon Stratis]

The file is linked from the Team Updates page:
http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/Updates/0

It looks like it was uploaded for one of two possible reasons: As a stand-in that will be updated later when updates are made, or as a test to make sure the system was working as expected prior to kickoff.

[ENIAC]

Here is the file (http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item31356551911.pdf) that is currently standing in for the game manual. A similar situation.

URL: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/upload/pdfs/Item31356551911.pdf

Edit: Created at 1/1/2013 6:08:22 PM

[ThomasClark]

The anagram idea may or may not hold some merit. Here are several possibilities:

NOG
A SHARK RESIDES IN WATER
SEEMS LEGIT
I'D GO DESIGN IN HD


RING, HITLER, RING.
HE DOES DRESSES.
IS A WATER GAME.
NO KIDDING.

[Kevin Thorp]

It's frustrating to see those 2 blank pages! They should at least have a picture of Rick Astley in there.
http://ohmuzika.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/rick-astley.jpg

[John Sabath]

They're probably just test pages. After looking at the raw PDF data I found this signature:

/URI (http://www.tcpdf.org)>> /H /I>>
endobj
24 0 obj
<< /Title (þÿ F I R S T R o b o t i c s C o m p e t i t i o n) /Author (þÿ F I R S T) /Subject (þÿ F I R S T R o b o t i c s C o m p e t i t i o n) /Keywords (þÿ T C P D F , P D F , e x a m p l e , t e s t , g u i d e T C P D F) /Creator (þÿ F I R S T R o b o t i c C o m p e t i t i o n) /Producer (þÿ T C P D F 5 . 9 . 1 2 8 \( h t t p : / / w w w . t c p d f . o r g \)) /CreationDate (D:20121227223309-05'00') /ModDate (D:20121227223309-05'00')

"TCPDF is a FLOSS PHP class for generating PDF documents."

[johnmaguire2013]

Do we know when the actual game manual (encrypted of course) will be posted yet? I saw somewhere that it was today but only can find the blank manual and the decryption test.

[Bus10121]

Has anyone tried solving the number sequences by say letters and a word generator, possibly creating a sentence. Only comparison I am thinking of is Morse code. Any help would be great insight. Also what was Hint 2 if the numbers were Hint 3

[ENIAC]

Do we know when the actual game manual (encrypted of course) will be posted yet? I saw somewhere that it was today but only can find the blank manual and the decryption test.

Same for the KOP checklists...

[Steven Donow]

Same for the KOP checklists...

It'll probably be posted sometime later today; recent blog posts seem to come later in the evening, so I'd say we can definitely expect it to come later today.

[Bus10121]

Has anybody made any headway with game hint 3 and also what was game hint 2 if anybody knows.

[GrimmReaper]

No official posts yet, but the checklist and manual are both up - BOTH encrypted until kickoff...

Manual available here:
http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/2013FRCGameManual-Encrypted.pdf

Checklist links here:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts

[Anthony Galea]

No official posts yet, but the checklist and manual are both up - BOTH encrypted until kickoff...

Manual available here:
http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/2013FRCGameManual-Encrypted.pdf

Checklist links here:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts

in the url of the encrypted game manual, there is a three followed by a #.
Another game hint?

[Vanz]

I myself personally don't enjoy the idea of a third alliance as it could possibly cause the playing field to be altered. Also people are ruling out the third alliance because the bumper material wasn't mentioned in the kit but lets not forget that the special box is 4" X 1" X 1" and could possibly be rolled up or folded bumper fabric

[coldfusion1279]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

EDIT: This was simple substitution EXCEPT that '97' stands for both G and T. See discussion below.

Why would T and G be represented by the same number except to draw attention to them? T97 is a Volkswagen model called the Tatra. It's a pretty well buried hint, but I am willing to believe in the rebirth of the tetra! G97 represents a variety of things including a certificate of fitness, CNC codes, and wind turbine. Everyone else can have fun with that one, my contribution is complete.

[dellagd]

Why would T and G be represented by the same number except to draw attention to them? T97 is a Volkswagen model called the Tatra. It's a pretty well buried hint, but I am willing to believe in the rebirth of the tetra! G97 represents a variety of things including a certificate of fitness, CNC codes, and wind turbine. Everyone else can have fun with that one, my contribution is complete.

If so, this really was a good hint! Hats off to the GDC!

Personally, I prefer the picture hints, but hey, this is cool too!

[Travis Hoffman]

Why would T and G be represented by the same number except to draw attention to them? T97 is a Volkswagen model called the Tatra. It's a pretty well buried hint, but I am willing to believe in the rebirth of the tetra! G97 represents a variety of things including a certificate of fitness, CNC codes, and wind turbine. Everyone else can have fun with that one, my contribution is complete.

G97 is the rule that will require the robot to use copious amounts of neon-colored zip ties to ensure that it is indeed physically touching the loading zone (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35257&highlight=2005+zip+tie+loading+zone) when acquiring each Volkswagen Tatra game piece. #ignorethis #pointlessrulesfrom2005 #yesiusedhashtagsonacdpost

[gyroscopeRaptor]

T and G are the same because of the Pi cipher (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203757&postcount=55) the GDC used.

There's no connection to a Volkswagen or an old rule.

[Igors20]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint

Guess on!

Why can't someone just give a legitimate hint with no secrets.:deadhorse:

[ENIAC]

T and G are the same because of the Pi cipher (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203757&postcount=55) the GDC used.

There's no connection to a Volkswagen or an old rule.

At the same time, they did choose to use a pi cipher. They could have used some other number just as easily (phi, e, avogadro's, etc). So I wouldn't discount it straightaway.

[coldfusion1279]

But I want the tetras back...

[mocibot]

Maybe the numbers from the hint are coordinates for some polygons, that coincidence with each other? Random guess here. Or maybe the set of numbers before the coma is the location of a shape and the other three numbers describe it somehow?

Also, from the FRC Blogged - Information for 2013 - the What, When, Where & How thread
Looks like LabView has a robot simulator inside of it this year... Interesting.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/screensteps_live/images/Wpilib/88414/3/rendered/862C4EA5-9DF1-4716-B736-CD518183DCEA_display.png?AWSAccessKeyId=19JMR1FABX NXQR79AGG2&Expires=1357251756&Signature=25E8bo8h3ocVk09SOldTUxWgWSk%3D
Maybe a hint about what the field will be?

[CalTran]

That just looks like some old field elements/simple field elements

[ehochstein]

Maybe the numbers from the hint are coordinates for some polygons, that coincidence with each other? Random guess here. Or maybe the set of numbers before the coma is the location of a shape and the other three numbers describe it somehow?

Also, from the FRC Blogged - Information for 2013 - the What, When, Where & How thread

Maybe a hint about what the field will be?

I was trying to avoid from posting that here :) but if you go look in more detail in the instructions on how to install LabView there are files recently opened for rectangular image captures, 2013 Game Simulator and a second image of from the perspective of the robot's camera via the driver's station of the same thing.

*edit* Scratch that - 1718 tricked us :) http://www.fightingpi.org/Resources/Controls/Beta/2013_Beta/10-29-12_Day_7.shtml

[Brandon_L]

My prediction: We will be capping 3 goals.

[Johnny_5]

So on the "Information for 2013" section it lists the Kinect SDK to download. However, the Kinect is not listed on the Rookie/Veteran KoP table.

Does this mean that everyone is getting a new Kinect?



Also, it says the official bridge is the DAP-1522 Rev B. I take it we will all be getting new bridges too?

[ehochstein]

So on the "Information for 2013" section it lists the Kinect SDK to download. However, the Kinect is not listed on the Rookie/Veteran KoP table.

Does this mean that everyone is getting a new Kinect?



Also, it says the official bridge is the DAP-1522 Rev B. I take it we will all be getting new bridges too?

I've asked myself the same question multiple times... I think the only way we'll find out is through Kickoff. Everything else will just be speculation :/

[ENIAC]

My prediction: We will be capping 3 goals.

This makes a little sense. The capping from the tetras, the threes that have been showing up.

Maybe combined with the height stuff from stack attack:

Each alliance has three platforms with a stacking base. The sides are divided somehow. Each side attempts to stack up as many <insert game piece> as possible, and if a stack has a special game piece on top at the end, it's worth more, like the ubertube from 2011 (but capping). Would make for interesting strategies, like capping the opposing sides ubertetra (or what have you) with a non-uber piece to reduce their points, or somesuch.

[apalrd]

stack attack

Nope.

Stack Attack very very very quickly devolved into a game of destroying the opposing alliances stacks and becoming king of the hill, at all costs. Wedges were legal as long as you didn't actively lift them. Flipping was common. Destruction was great. It's kinda like battlebots from the point of view of the boxes, and a giant mess from the point of view of everyone else.

A match video of Stack Attack, courtesy of Andy Baker. 111 will win the championship by sitting on the ramp for the entire match. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwl31zoAPI)

[Kevin Thorp]

It's been 5 years since the game used giant balls (FIRST Overdrive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_Overdrive)).

I wonder if the End Game might involve lifting a large ball up high (8'?) and holding it there, similar to a seal balancing a ball? If that's too easy, maybe we have to climb on a platform first, but can't start until the last 15 seconds, like the minibot launching in LogoMotion.

That would be a great visual; 4 to 6 robots quickly climbing on platforms, then giant balls being hoisted up high!

[rocknthehawk]

Tupperware tossdown.

[ENIAC]

Nope.

Stack Attack very very very quickly devolved into a game of destroying the opposing alliances stacks and becoming king of the hill, at all costs. Wedges were legal as long as you didn't actively lift them. Flipping was common. Destruction was great. It's kinda like battlebots from the point of view of the boxes, and a giant mess from the point of view of everyone else.

A match video of Stack Attack, courtesy of Andy Baker. 111 will win the championship by sitting on the ramp for the entire match. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwl31zoAPI)

I did know that part. We used Stack Attack as our week-in-a-day. I meant with the stacking height stuff as intended. But, as is obvious, just throwing it out there.

[DanielDTech]

Here's some food for thought... I would think that someone had already thought of this, but I haven't seen a reply on it so here goes:
I'm working off of the "Pi cipher" because it seems very legitimate to me. I mean come on, it rhymes. It can't be a coincidence...

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT

Seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_from_a_Rose) inevitably relates, with his Grammy for being a great singer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Male_Pop_Vocal_Performance) and his seemingly relevant song about a rose and a kiss.

I thought of the different definitions of "seal", and I made a crazy connection with the Navy Seals. The Navy Seals' emblem, by the way, has an ANCHOR in it, which could be considered a HOLDING WEIGHT.

http://api.ning.com/files/IOB6W960ZMfzEleRsVtTMYECYAxeMsRtj1bUev8L4VCS6mvAVG wih6zsUoArjGR9myE0-BFnlcPVvVzQI2LCiRVOpOR1s7J8/US_Navy_SEALs_insignia.png

The only thing I can't connect here is the A DINNER, MISSED part.

Maybe I'm stretching it a bit now, but this all seems to connect. And I don't think I have to state the obvious game type that this would point to... :P We'll be swimming with the fishes! (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1p20WdeXKKs/TESwgj8jtdI/AAAAAAAAJbo/wFdIFHIwp7Q/s1600/Ocean1.jpg)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And something unrelated... I stumbled upon this newspaper (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2194&dat=19550926&id=iOYxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JuMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3805,2314606) that has "seal" mentioned in various different places around the "Dinner Missed" article, like right above what appears to be an emblem containing an anchor in it, next to the article about shark-bitten survivors and the one about the swimmer who planned on plunging into the English channel.. Ain't that funny?

[dodar]

Here's some food for thought... I would think that someone had already thought of this, but I haven't seen a reply on it so here goes:
I'm working off of the "Pi cipher" because it seems very legitimate to me. I mean come on, it rhymes. It can't be a coincidence...

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT

Seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_from_a_Rose) inevitably relates, with his Grammy for being a great singer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Male_Pop_Vocal_Performance) and his seemingly relevant song about a rose and a kiss.

I thought of the different definitions of "seal", and I made a crazy connection with the Navy Seals. The Navy Seals' emblem, by the way, has an ANCHOR in it, which could be considered a HOLDING WEIGHT.




And where does the Navy operate? It all comes back to one simple answer, Water Game!

[ratdude747]

Also, it says the official bridge is the DAP-1522 Rev B. I take it we will all be getting new bridges too?

You bet.

IIRC it was in a blog post somewhere as part of the mitigations regarding the Einstein incident.

[DanielDTech]

I'd like to quickly bring your attention back to this hint (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg). I know an altered image when I see one. The red pin on the bottom left was definitely not in the original photo. It is a perfect circle, and it lacks the luminosity that the other pins have. If FIRST took the time to make this pin red, it must be for a reason. So, I second what someone said about the fact that there are three different colored pins, possibly suggesting 3 alliances, or maybe this could mean something totally different. But it certainly means something.

[John Sabath]

I'd like to quickly bring your attention back to this hint (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg). I know an altered image when I see one. The red pin on the bottom left was definitely not in the original photo. It is a perfect circle, and it lacks the luminosity that the other pins have. If FIRST took the time to make this pin red, it must be for a reason. So, I second what someone said about the fact that there are three different colored pins, possibly suggesting 3 alliances, or maybe this could mean something totally different. But it certainly means something.

Or it's just a flat push pin.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Livinginthepast/NiH/IMG_0416.jpg

[DanielDTech]

Or it's just a flat push pin.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/Livinginthepast/NiH/IMG_0416.jpg

A flat push pin wouldn't create that heavy dark shadow on the bottom left quadrant of the pin, and wouldn't look so flat, as they are actually rounded. But if I'm wrong and it is a flat pin, why the difference?? :confused:

And either way... It looks very phony.

[DanielDTech]

I'd like to quickly bring your attention back to this hint (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg). I know an altered image when I see one. The red pin on the bottom left was definitely not in the original photo. It is a perfect circle, and it lacks the luminosity that the other pins have. If FIRST took the time to make this pin red, it must be for a reason. So, I second what someone said about the fact that there are three different colored pins, possibly suggesting 3 alliances, or maybe this could mean something totally different. But it certainly means something.

Spot the phony!
http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/spotthephonyy.jpg

[orangemoore]

If you look closely they are actually normal thumb tacks.
http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg


Here is an example:
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&authuser=0&biw=1241&bih=567&tbs=isz:l&tbm=isch&tbnid=D5KY6TMA2Wd8HM:&imgrefurl=http://www.psdgraphics.com/psd-icons/thumbtacks/&docid=vncWJBPiggw4vM&imgurl=http://www.psdgraphics.com/file/thumbtack-isolated.jpg&w=2250&h=3000&ei=FyXlUNGhNMbg2QWpp4GoBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=247&vpy=199&dur=3&hovh=260&hovw=194&tx=102&ty=257&sig=118215881069683087415&page=1&tbnh=146&tbnw=106&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0,i:118

[Sean Raia]

Spot the phony!
http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/spotthephonyy.jpg

Looks like a flat pushpin with a matte finish... it does not appear to be Photoshopped.
Case closed?

[John Sabath]

Looks like a flat pushpin with a matte finish... it does not appear to be Photoshopped.
Case closed?

Agreed. I'm thinking a matte pushpin with a beveled edge.

[Flimsor]

The only thing I can't connect here is the A DINNER, MISSED part.

Well, I don't know that this guess at the clue actually has anything to do with what the game will be, but I've figured out how the dinner missed fits in. Eagles catch their prey by diving to the surface of the water and grabbing it with their talons. Rather than prey, this eagle is holding an anchor, and if he's busy holding an anchor, he won't be able to grab food, and will miss his dinner. I'm thinking it's a bit of a stretch since I don't see how this could be a game, but no one ever knows.

Also, I'm pretty darn sure we're all getting new Kinects since I remember hear a lot of FIRST people wanting to improve how it was used in the game, and a lot of people agreed that it was basically useless. Just look at this at world champs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaOiaC0I8pY

[ENIAC]

hint (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedImages/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/Inside%20GDC%20Game%20Lab.jpg).

I noticed also that on that linked URL, the favicon is different from the standard FIRST favicon. Is that showing up for anyone else?

[ReapersRule]

I noticed also that on that linked URL, the favicon is different from the standard FIRST favicon. Is that showing up for anyone else?



I hadn't noticed that before, but now that you mention it, I do. I checked, the FIRST logo is there for the main website, the blog, the game manual and documents... but not this. Not sure if it is significant in any way, but it is different.

Of course, we are assuming the picture is a hint, and not just the GDC messing with us...

[Jibri Wright]

Just to tell you guys, the Navy Seals now sponsor FIRST. Dean Kamen did have a meeting with them back in 2012 and have struck an agreement with them. Look it up on Youtube, i saw a video of most of the speech there. I will post a link later. I don't think the Navy Seal thing may be too far off.

[dellagd]

I hadn't noticed that before, but now that you mention it, I do. I checked, the FIRST logo is there for the main website, the blog, the game manual and documents... but not this. Not sure if it is significant in any way, but it is different.

Of course, we are assuming the picture is a hint, and not just the GDC messing with us...

Browsers (sorry, at least Firefox) always just compress down a jpg image and stick it in the favicon spot. At least Im just seeing a compressed Rick in the icon spot.

[nuggetsyl]

I am going with the guess we are going to see traffic cones with something balanced on top

[dbartels]

Team 1522 - The Defenders of the Multiverse - is thinking that the Rick Astley photo is not a rick roll. As mentioned above "3" is meaningful and the three colored push pins signify 3 alliances - red, yellow & blue. The position of the pins corresponds to starting positions or driver stations. The forth red pin which seems different is likely a hybrid bot controlled by the red alliance with the Kinect.

This bot will never be given up, let down and the red alliance is never gonna run around and desert it.

DINNER MISSED - missing out on points b/c you're defending the red hybrid bot - HOLDING WEIGHT

Think about this while watching the video (coincidently 3:33 long)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[Kevin Thorp]

I am going with the guess we are going to see traffic cones with something balanced on top

Coincidentally, here's a cute safety animation created by the FEDS (Team 201): http://youtu.be/Z-j-UAeZ7rM

[BAM]

Just to tell you guys, the Navy Seals now sponsor FIRST. Dean Kamen did have a meeting with them back in 2012 and have struck an agreement with them. Look it up on Youtube, i saw a video of most of the speech there. I will post a link later. I don't think the Navy Seal thing may be too far off.

If this is true, our Navy Seal guess seems plausible. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UBWqTd77k9E/TPIHxt6zD9I/AAAAAAAAAVM/fR4VNOQlZr8/s1600/mythbusters_plausible_spray.png) We can all agree that the first two lines refers to the artist Seal, and his hit song "Kiss from a Rose". But the meaning of the second two lines is posing to be more of a challenge. I think this Navy Seal idea makes logical sense both in the context of the riddle and in the context of FIRST politics.

Also, I think the Pi cypher is very important. The Raspberry Pi (http://www.raspberrypi.org/) has been gaining popularity over the past several months, and I think FIRST recognizes this. The KOP mentions a "Separate Idem" thats 4" x 1" x 1", and I think this could be the Pi.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Also, I think the Pi cypher is very important. The Raspberry Pi (http://www.raspberrypi.org/) has been gaining popularity over the past several months, and I think FIRST recognizes this. The KOP mentions a "Separate Idem" thats 4" x 1" x 1", and I think this could be the Pi.

If the box is 4x1x1", the Raspberry Pi (which is 3.37x2.2x.82") couldn't possibly fit inside of it.

[ahartnet]

A few thoughts

1) in regards to this being hint #1. I remember last year they outright gave us a hint saying that the kinect was going to be important to this years game. Maybe not in those words exactly.

2) 4" x 1" x 1" sounds like it could be a smaller kinect?

[MechEng83]

If the box is 4x1x1", the Raspberry Pi (which is 3.37x2.2x.82") couldn't possibly fit inside of it.

Unless it's bigger on the inside.... :D

[Andrew Lawrence]

2) 4" x 1" x 1" sounds like it could be a smaller kinect?

Do they make those? If they do, it could be for vision tracking purposes instead of robot control purposes.

[kauvick]

:)

[nathan_hui]

As far as I'm aware of, there isn't a smaller kinect. And the normal container for the kinect is not 4 x 1 x 1.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Unless it's bigger on the inside.... :D

In which case we all better be ready for a really, really good game (It shall be called: Wibbly Wobbly Gamey Wamey stuff.)

[ahartnet]

Do they make those?

No, I'm pretty sure they don't. Also, I thought the kinect was something like a foot long, but only an inch deep/wide. Looking up the dimensions show it's actually 11"x3"x3" leaving me to believe that it's not a reduced set of kinect features.

I just wanted to do some pure speculations.

Also, I think with the lyrics "never gonna let you down" and the "holding weight" portion of the puzzle...we'll need some strong robots.

[Nick Lawrence]

2) 4" x 1" x 1" sounds like it could be a smaller kinect?

I normally don't post in these, but I seem to remember that this box was the RSL last year.

-Nick

[ENIAC]

What I see possibly happening is Kinect data being processed onboard the robot by a RasPi, if our suppositions turn out to be correct.

[EricPalmatier]

Interesting. Perhaps the RSL this year is a 4 color 1" diameter light pole. its square cross section would be 4X1X1. the top light could be Orange, with the bottom three lights indicating alliance color and other important game specific information. Allen-Bradley does have lights on the market like this. Similar lights can be seen on those automated check out systems common in grocery stores. just an idea.

[Johnny_5]

Maybe the game is oriented around the seal idea. Since the Navy is involved in FRC this year, and the lyrics reference a seal and "a dinner missed" (holding weight). And Rick Astley sings "Never gonna let you down".... maybe this is a helicopter game?


Just some speculation....

[JB987]

Anybody ever see footage of the team related task the Seals struggle with while undergoing hellish training on the beach? Teams of 8 or so have to pick up big, heavy log and carry/hold it for a real long time...makes you wonder, huh?

[Gir_450]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here but I think we'll all figure out what this hint means sometime soon. xD

[inkspell4]

Why are you all saying that the navy is involved?

[Racer26]

Nope.

Stack Attack very very very quickly devolved into a game of destroying the opposing alliances stacks and becoming king of the hill, at all costs. Wedges were legal as long as you didn't actively lift them. Flipping was common. Destruction was great. It's kinda like battlebots from the point of view of the boxes, and a giant mess from the point of view of everyone else.

A match video of Stack Attack, courtesy of Andy Baker. 111 will win the championship by sitting on the ramp for the entire match. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwl31zoAPI)

FUN FACTS ABOUT STACK ATTACK:

2003 was 1114's rookie year.
1114 was one of the only teams that actually built a working stackerbot. I can't help but wonder if this experience of missing the game analysis helped drive them to become the powerhouse they are today.
StangPS was WAY ahead of its time. Most teams still today lack a system as powerful as StangPS was, back when we had the BASICStamp 2sx's which only gave 26 bytes of user variable memory IIRC.

[DanielDTech]

Why are you all saying that the navy is involved?

Go on page 40

[Kevin Thorp]

Anybody ever see footage of the team related task the Seals struggle with while undergoing hellish training on the beach? Teams of 8 or so have to pick up big, heavy log and carry/hold it for a real long time...makes you wonder, huh?

Wow... That would be a new twist. Two (or more) robots having to work together to carry long heavy game element.

[malanis]

so, a teammate of mine, who for 2 years now have guessed the correct game piece (tubes, and balls[though he wasnt thinking basket]) seems to think it will be tetras, not from any hints, just from a hunch i guess. and there seems to be talk about them coming back in this thread. also, a tetra is a fish. water game.

[IisMathwizard]

I wonder if the Game lab issues the game hint each year so we can come up with some weird and wacky new game ideas for them to tone down for next year's game.... huh... i wonder...

[John Sabath]

Wow... That would be a new twist. Two (or more) robots having to work together to carry long heavy game element.

I like it!

I wonder if the Game lab issues the game hint each year so we can come up with some weird and wacky new game ideas for them to tone down for next year's game.... huh... i wonder...

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Kevin Thorp]

With multiple robots all working together, just think what they could accomplish!

http://cdn-static.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeek/files/styles/article_main_wide_image/public/images/278785.jpg

[Ernst]

With multiple robots all working together, just think what they could accomplish!

So maybe we'll be allowed to use alcohol to fuel the robots this year?

[JB987]

So maybe we'll be allowed to use alcohol to fuel the robots this year?

How about using alcohol to fuel the mentors???

[dellagd]

I wonder if the Game lab issues the game hint each year so we can come up with some weird and wacky new game ideas for them to tone down for next year's game.... huh... i wonder...

Im fairly certain thats the ONLY reason they release the Hint.

[Bill_B]

In which case we all better be ready for a really, really good game (It shall be called: Wibbly Wobbly Gamey Wamey stuff.)

If that's the case, I'm not letting anyone borrow my screwdriver!

[vinnie]

I really hope that there isn't an essential task that must be completed by two or more robots on the same alliance. A lot of robots aren't very strong or can't do certain things and I wouldn't want to rely on alliance partners to do some kind of critical task. I'm totally in favor of having cooperation be a part of the game, but I don't want it to hurt a good team paired with weak alliance partners. I thought coopertition was fine because the chances of none of the opposite alliance robots not being able to balance was extremely unlikely.

[Patrick Chiang]

I really hope that there isn't an essential task that must be completed by two or more robots on the same alliance. A lot of robots aren't very strong or can't do certain things and I wouldn't want to rely on alliance partners to do some kind of critical task. I'm totally in favor of having cooperation be a part of the game, but I don't want it to hurt a good team paired with weak alliance partners. I thought coopertition was fine because the chances of none of the opposite alliance robots not being able to balance was extremely unlikely.

Agreed (except for maybe endgame). Too much cooperation elements can overcomplicate the game unless they increase the game time and build season length.

[Steven Sigley]

Just stringing together a lot of thoughts here of my own.

Seal the Deal

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Well a good way to miss dinner is to snack on some chips. Down that same alley, in poker, chips have weight. Back to the videos referencing cylindrical objects placed on circular objects, perhaps the robots move chips onto card-like objects.

There could be 3 values of chips like the pushpins on the rick astley photo, and by choosing him, the game hint people can reference a joker card just for fun.

Long story short, robots stack chips on cards, and maybe there's an element of chance helping rookie teams stand a chance against veterans.

Your game is poker.

[dellagd]

I dont know how, but in a dream Woodie Flowers accidentally showed me a letter titled "FRC 2013 Game: Space Race". Unfortunately I didnt open it as I didnt want to spoil the kickoff for me :)

Space relating to the curiosity landing?

I dont know how, but I felt COMPELLED to post it! :ahh:

[DanielDTech]

Let me continue speculating on the game hint... I know some already touched on the significance of the number 3 based on:

- the second game hint was labeled hint #3
- pi starts with 3, and pi was used to translate the numbers
- "Never Gonna Give You Up" is 3 minutes and 33 seconds long
- The Rick Astley Picture is held up by 3 different colored pins (if their intentions weren't to make it specifically 3 different colors and wanted to maintain correspondence to FIRST's color scheme, one of the red pins would be white)

But here are two things that I didn't see anyone mention that emphasizes on the importance of the number 3 here...
1)The picture of Rick Astley occurs EXACTLY 3 minutes into the music video it was taken from. (http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/3 minute rick rolled copy.jpg)?
2) Is it just a coincidence that the only pin that is different on that image is the 3rd one whether you count them as if reading lines, or if you count them like quadrants of a unit circle ***pi***?

Now, I'll recite what someone previously said about FIRST's game trends:
2011 resembled 2007
2012 resembled 2006
If 2013 will follow this pattern and resemble 2005, then the 3's are easily and obviously related to tetras.

But other than that and the unlikely possibility of having 3 alliances, any thoughts on why 3 would be so important, and how it may relate to the other game hint?

[Squillo]

Something I noticed. Go to the page for downloading the game manual. Right click on the image that says "Game Manual" (the box with rounded corners and the arrow that says "More"). If you click "Save link as..." the default file name is "3.htm".

I think "3" is the critical hint here. There are just too many "3"s for this to be a coincidence. Maybe 3 alliances (2v2v2), 3 minute game, or something involving 3. I'm thinking something like Tic tac toe?

(Now in the interest of full disclosure, the link for the admin manual is "2.htm" so maybe it IS a coincidence. Hmmm....)

[dellagd]

Let me continue speculating on the game hint... I know some already touched on the significance of the number 3 based on:

- the second game hint was labeled hint #3
- pi starts with 3, and pi was used to translate the numbers
- "Never Gonna Give You Up" is 3 minutes and 33 seconds long
- The Rick Astley Picture is held up by 3 different colored pins (if their intentions weren't to make it specifically 3 different colors and wanted to maintain correspondence to FIRST's color scheme, one of the red pins would be white)

But here are two things that I didn't see anyone mention that emphasizes on the importance of the number 3 here...
1)The picture of Rick Astley occurs EXACTLY 3 minutes into the music video it was taken from. (http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/3 minute rick rolled copy.jpg)?
2) Is it just a coincidence that the only pin that is different on that image is the 3rd one whether you count them as if reading lines, or if you count them like quadrants of a unit circle ***pi***?

Now, I'll recite what someone previously said about FIRST's game trends:
2011 resembled 2007
2012 resembled 2006
If 2013 will follow this pattern and resemble 2005, then the 3's are easily and obviously related to tetras.

But other than that and the unlikely possibility of having 3 alliances, any thoughts on why 3 would be so important, and how it may relate to the other game hint?

The fact that the screenshot was three minutes into the video was said many many many times. And yes, that IS very key I believe!

My favorite game was 2005!!!!!! PLEASE!! (At least I wont have to wait much longer :) )

[midway78224]

Let me continue speculating on the game hint... I know some already touched on the significance of the number 3 based on:

- the second game hint was labeled hint #3
- pi starts with 3, and pi was used to translate the numbers
- "Never Gonna Give You Up" is 3 minutes and 33 seconds long
- The Rick Astley Picture is held up by 3 different colored pins (if their intentions weren't to make it specifically 3 different colors and wanted to maintain correspondence to FIRST's color scheme, one of the red pins would be white)

But here are two things that I didn't see anyone mention that emphasizes on the importance of the number 3 here...
1)The picture of Rick Astley occurs EXACTLY 3 minutes into the music video it was taken from. (http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/3 minute rick rolled copy.jpg)?
2) Is it just a coincidence that the only pin that is different on that image is the 3rd one whether you count them as if reading lines, or if you count them like quadrants of a unit circle ***pi***?

Now, I'll recite what someone previously said about FIRST's game trends:
2011 resembled 2007
2012 resembled 2006
If 2013 will follow this pattern and resemble 2005, then the 3's are easily and obviously related to tetras.

But other than that and the unlikely possibility of having 3 alliances, any thoughts on why 3 would be so important, and how it may relate to the other game hint?

Yes i was the one who posted this. I though of the 2005 game and it had 3 goals in a red zone 3 goals in the middle and 3 goals in a blue zone. Maybe three different scoring areas. I pretty sure some people have mention this in having 3 scoring zones or obstacles. We will have to wait in see in about 33 hrs.

[cglrcng]

This is the exact poem I was referring to from 2009. If you actually go to the locations on google maps (or don't, just read it and think about it) it is quite obvious what each line refers to.

"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount" Zamboni shop - low coefficient of friction, like ice

"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix" the u haul - and we connected to our trailers

"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka" - forgot what was there, but we had to pick up the empty cells.

"then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover" - if I need to explain this one, there will be epic facepalms.


It may have made no sense at the time, but it doesn't seem that complex now.

I have to say, cannot contain myself any further, but have been lurking through and reading this thread nearly non stop since Wed. night (took time out to go to a Mentors Meeting/Dinner in a restaurant w/ wifey tonight - Thurs. though, and discussed the thread instead part of the time). Takes a while when you follow most links of course. Only hit 1 Trojan (Be careful of the old MFG. site for the Jaguars tech info straight from the VexBot site to the old makers of the Jag's. there's a JS.Trojan.Exploit there upon opening the page link...MS Security Essentials cleand it immed., no harm, no foul...Oh, and only 1 actual non-expected RickRolling LOL).

Way back when Win XP was about to be released to the public, before the release, Microsoft hosted a worldwide game (a real world game much like what this particular clue release has caused in this thread), and the game took weeks, people all over the world cooperated together to solve the puzzle together....(I work in the IT & computer repair/consulting field, and I work for myself, am big multi-tasker very Type A Idiot, and I could play the game while I worked and still produce fully, think FRC build season 24 hrs a day)...But that game ("Loki" you nearly killed me)...I played that game nearly 24 hrs. a day for the few weeks or months it ran and I still have every clue & post link in neat lil' folders archived on a BU HD and some great memories (I actually was a Second Place Winner and won a Zune Player from Microsoft that I gave to my middle son).

I would have been proud to have had any/ & many of you along for the ride as many of you have gone down so many roads and are on the right track I think in many places, some I think are waaaaay off base as I very well may be also.

Luckily for me, there is only less than a day and a few more hours and the whole puzzle will be revealed as far as what the clues mean.

Kudos to those that decrypted the poem, right on through to the actual poster of approx. the (Partial) of Pi....Though If I read one more reference to "water game" (though I did have to laugh about the T-Shirt at AndyMark a page or 2 ago), and am also as terrified of the scouting aspect of 4v4 or the even worse thought of 3v3v3...Yikes!

I have seen some suggest and discuss their feelings (most being Mentors of course), about how build season over extending, etc.

Sry, had to lay a foundation...Here are my guesses. Bear w/ me and my book here a few minutes...Remember I read from page 1 of the thread to the post somewhere in page 30 or so before posting once. But the quoted post above hit where I was before I hit page 24. (Methinks Frank is a very bright man, I wouldn't even be surprised to know that either Frank and/or a few on the Game Development Team also met "LOKI" along the way also).

1. The Pic of Rick. Rickrolled? HS Jr. Student son (Programmer, Driver, all around everything if it needs doing), and I were discussing the RICKPIC last night, and my Teacher Mentor Wifey says "What's Rickrolled?" We educated her very quickly. Now (my real ?)...How in the world did she make it to late 40something teaching / & researching the web like she does without ever getting Rickrolled? I need to really find out that secret (I live on the web, I research solutions to hardware/software & other problems for a living, any idea how many times I have been Rickrolled myself since 2004? Care to even guess? Think of the digits in Pi, then add a Raspberri or 2...LOL).

Or, is the RICKPIC a VERY GOOD hint? A real promise by Frank to post the pic previously to the actual posting? I looked back through his postings & I saw no proof (if you did see a previous promise to post that pic in another of his previous blog posts, please post back a link for me).

So it leads me to also think that pic has a ton of meaning, that particular frame of the vid is exactly minute 3:00 into the actual vid (any on youtube, same song, and that song can/could have many of the game element and/or title meanings all over it), then there is the "rose" window up to the right, rectangle field, the choice of pushpin colors & positions, (a light hits the gloom on the gray...Never mind that is Game Clue #3 after decryption of the poem, and I digress), but there are elements inside the pic I saw that could relate to parts of the decrypted poem easily. I'll see later if the RICKPIC has anything at all to do w/ this game later, I SURELY HOPE?! </;-)

2. The teaser clues in Frank's Dec. 18 Post and his use of 2 words/phrases hit me odly (Mesoamerican Long Count..., & not Myan Long Count...), and ‘coincidence’ ....which was anything but when on 12/21/12 a portion of what seemed like a series of #'s as "easy as pie" (but wasn't, still WOW), was served up as The Promised Clue - or "Game Clue #3" (Along w/ certain info for those interested in the KOP•Size: 6" x 7" x 30"). Very interesting stuff.



3. The title of "GAME CLUE #3" is a clue in it's own right. (3's as almost everyone knows so far, will go far)...No "coincidence" that 12/21/12=3+3+3 caused a ton of consternation, nervous energy, guessing & excitement. Personally after looking at what the bracket sheets looked like for when it was 3v3v3 back when (before my time for sure), it was a mess or appeared that way, though they got through it....I personally think 3vs3 is safe for now (I guess we'll see together in less than 36 hrs, eh?)

4. Cryptography really isn't my thing (and the ones who like cryptography here), seemed to have safely and logically deduced & reduced, and decrypted & massaged the game clue cipher into a reasonable poem result; Work explained very well & easily trusted.

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT (Though the last comma was misplaced originally in a few
of the posts). The one pointing that out and the ones
that immediately followed it turned on an instant light in
my head.(!) ("My eyes become large and the light that you
shine can be seen").

5. Straight to YouTube (Sokay, I love that Seal Song anyway and had been whistling it since the first mention of "Kiss From A Rose" by Seal), you know that tape in your brain that keeps looping until another song or piece of music replaces it (please do not deny it, humor me....I CANNOT REALLY BE ALONE IN THIS!!!) LOL Watched the vid a time or 2, off to download the Lyrics IMMEDIATELY...Hmm, they were not discussed in any of the posts so far in this thread.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/seal/kissfromarose.html

6. Then I began reading them and it felt (read it as you hear it), just like "Build Season" & beyond (I believe many of us during competition will really miss the "witholding weight" fellow FIRST FRC Members). But, I think based on the amount of Dinners we do miss between Saturday 1/5 & that Bag & Tag day after mid February arrives, and all that happens like a blurrrrr between those 2 points and beyond (it is time we find time to have a REAL sit down & eat at home "Dinner" or 2).

Then again looking back to last year and how different colored lights reflected differently from that ("A light hits the gloom on the gray"), gray reflective tape that was used on the backboards last year, and how neat that looked through the Camera as a target in reverse contrast...Either red, or blue, or green on a black background....So the song could mean many things to many different people.

Or it (the poem), could explain elements of the game, or the Game Title....We'll see. But, I do personally think we are going back to Bag It, Tag It, Run what ya brung, and fix it (only) if you have to during the few hrs. you have onsite at competitions (No arriving w/ that 25~35 lbs. of reserved & refined extra practiced witholding weight in the form of major fabricated pcs. or what you saw that worked real well in that YouTube vid last week).

SRY All, My book is done....Fading into the wallpaper to finish the thread....."My power, my pleasure, my pain, FRCeeeeeeee"

OK, I'd rather believe that we all make it to the Championships, Seal comes and performs a set or 2 incl. "Kiss From A Rose" for all of Mentors like Wil & the Peas did for the kids, and FIRST throws in a sit down dinner. Hey, I didn't start all this...Frank did.;)

Cg

[cglrcng]

I love that quote.

[cglrcng]

Agreed. The anagram was pretty crazy. Could it be a coincidence? My heart says yes, my head says no. :ahh:

I'm no mathematician, but....

The odds of that cipher ending up in that 48 letter poem, and then "accidentally" like "koinkydink" also being an anagram using all 48 of those letters without a spare letter given that there are 29 non-vowels like 3 G's among others....Astronomical I'd think (though I'll bet someone will be along very soon who actually could list exactly what the odds would be).....Reversed from the anagram to the poem easily done, as it does not have to make quite as much sense. The anagram certainly did.

It is certainly easier to reverse engineer than to invent...But it isn't anywhere near as much fun!

[pfreivald]

The fun part about the "3" guess is that the number is so ubiquitous it's almost guaranteed to come up at least once in the game, giving people a sense of warm-fuzzy validation on their predictive abilities. :)

[cglrcng]

Um, I have not seen this mentioned in this thread yet:

(from here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint?page=1))

Is that as strange to you as it is to me?

HI, TO SEE LOGIN, MANAGERS RISKD SEEING GREAT NERDS DID WISH

Takes a bit of time (which I was running out of quickly), and I was short just one lousy "E", but as to the possibilities, more than I originally thought given the time going into the process...The poem gave many more possible words than I figured on to begin with.

Yes, it is very STRANGE!

[Johnny_5]

What if there actually is 3 game hints? It would make sense that the Rick Astley screen grab was hint #2. But was there something before or after that?

[DanielDTech]

What if there actually is 3 game hints? It would make sense that the Rick Astley screen grab was hint #2. But was there something before or after that?

Now that I think about it, there was that "typo" in the URL of the second game hint and KOP:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint

*kit-of-ARTS*

Web developers often make the mistake of making a typo in the URL and don't care to check them or fix them because its pretty insignificant. But with all the connections to some type of art that we've seen like Rick Astley, Seal, and maybe even the robot movie that Jack Black (who covered Kiss From a Rose) is starring in this year (the movie is based on a book by Daniel Wilson, a "roboticist"), maybe it's actually not a typo, and that's Hint #2.

[MechEng83]

I think it's wrong to direct the number "3" to tetras, despite everyone's desire to find patterns in game design progressions. The prefix tetra- actually means 4, anyway.

[Gregor]

I think it's wrong to direct the number "3" to tetras, despite everyone's desire to find patterns in game design progressions. The prefix tetra- actually means 4, anyway.

I believe people are referencing Triple Play, which had tetras as game pieces.

[ToddF]

A ROSE, KISSED SINGER GREAT = Seal

A DINNER, MISSED = Fast

HOLDING WEIGHT = Rope

This image,
http://wap2p.com/sdbeta_images/uploaded/spotthephonyy.jpg
is of three push pins, red, yellow and blue, plus a single red tack.

It's a tack. Attack.

The song lyric is "lift you up" and "let you down".

I do a lot of kayak fishing at the Hampton Roads bridge tunnel. I see Navy SEALS training quite often. When they attack, the technique they use is fast roping.

This year's game will have three teams, yellow, blue and red. It will involve ascending or descending a rope in a controlled manner. The red team will either be attacking the yellow and blue teams, or will be attacked by them.

Has there ever been a game where the game element is rope?

How likely is it that a three CIM motor gearbox is necessary to act as a winch to either lift or lower the weight of a FIRST robot in a reasonable amount of time?

[Kevin Thorp]

Re: ToddF's idea: I found this cool "Seal Fast Rope" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQk2Uz6jnw4

I wonder if we'll have to climb some type of structure then deploy mini-bots by "fast rope"? Maybe they'll be a little more capable than in 2011 because they'll be controlled by Rasberry Pi computers?

[Shifter]

There is a different kind of kiss of a Rose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ma7p3EM9F0) that I don't think has been mentioned yet. A backdrop significant to this year's game?!

Just throwing it out there.

[Kevin Thorp]

There is a different kind of kiss of a Rose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ma7p3EM9F0) that I don't think has been mentioned yet. A backdrop significant to this year's game?!

Just throwing it out there.
Reminds me of our rookie year...
http://griid.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/titanic-sinking.jpg

[Cal578]

I don't think the lower left pin (in the Rick Astley photo) is a tack, nor is it photoshopped. It's a push pin, just like the upper left, but aimed straight at the camera so we don't see any of the side. The vague shadow below is because the light source is above.

So, I think that's a red herring. Let's focus on the rest of the hint(s).

I still haven't seen a really satisfactory explanation of "A dinner, missed".

[jdunston94]

I dont know how, but in a dream Woodie Flowers accidentally showed me a letter titled "FRC 2013 Game: Space Race". Unfortunately I didnt open it as I didnt want to spoil the kickoff for me :)

Space relating to the curiosity landing?

I dont know how, but I felt COMPELLED to post it! :ahh:

I know most of you will think im crazy, but id love a chance to drive on regolith!as i was not part of lunacy!

[apalrd]

I know most of you will think im crazy, but id love a chance to drive on regolith!as i was not part of lunacy!

no, you don't want that. seriously.

I picked a random video from 2009 from 254's fantastic collection of robot videos on their youTube channel. This is a semi-final elims match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rpgf9jdVNM

Do you have any idea what's happening in that match?

Pinning. Lots of it. Totally legal in 2009. And the robots would clump together trying to pin each other, and the human players would score a lot more than the robots. And that was about it.