2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!

[bardd]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint

Guess on!

[BigJ]

Initial guess: due to the commas and even numbers of numbers per grouping, maybe each pair of numbers is a character.

[Hallry]

Game Hint #3


31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397

Number 3!?!?

Seems like some kind of cypher to me...

[BigJ]

Number 3!?!?

Half-Life 3 confirmed for this year's FIRST game.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ekcrbe]

I was just about to start this thread, but I had to make sure they hadn't gone mad in the last one.

I haven't the cryptography skills of the rest of CD, and a simple Google search for the numbers doesn't seem to bring anything conclusive.

EDIT: Okay, first try. taking all of the 3s in the hint gives
3- -------3, ---3-----3--
---3-3---3-- -----33---
3- ---3-3-3-3--, 33-3-----3--
-3-------3-3-- ---3-3---3--

And the number of digits between successive 3s or breaks is:
1 7, 3-5-2
3-1-3-2 5-0-3
1 3-1-1-1-2, 0-1-5-2
1-7-1-2 3-1-3-2

And in that series:
2, 2
1-1 2
1-4, 4
4 1-1

I'm probably completely wrong, but I'm running with it.

[bardd]

Number 3!?!?

Since there was no official game hint before, I'm assuming this is part of the hint...
Three alliances maybe?

I'm assuming non of the numbers are coordinates, since a game hint in the past contains coordinates... Or these *are* coordinates and they're playing reverse psychology on us?

[rsisk]

Franks high school locker combination?

[mlantry]

Number 3!?!?

What could be the other 2

[Littleboy]

I'm gonna laugh when the GDC numbers the first official game hint #3.
Yep, they do read Chief Delphi.

[Fifthparallel]

Well, it wouldn't have anything to do with Base 3 encoding, possibly reversed, with something special at the end, right?

Gentlemen, whip out your scripting tools.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

They seem to be segments of Pi. Try running them through here and seeing what the places are, and then we might have a string of numbers that could translate to letters.

31__88 27 41 53,_62 23 41 41 53 26
00__34 28 02 08,_21 16 02 02 08 06
41 23 83 97 53 88__97 88 53 31 97

31__26 23 83 83 53 88,_33 23 41 41 53 26

93 27 64 26 23 83 97__99 53 23 97 93 97

It won't be directly translated into words, still.

[JChang]

http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

They seem to be segments of Pi.

Pi is related to circles,
Circular field?
Circular game piece?

[bardd]

I just realised some number sequences repeat themselves...
31 obviously
2383 appears three times, second row first number, third row second number (31 as a different number), fourth row first number.
5388 twice, second row first number, third row second number. Both two digits apart from a 2383.

First row last number seems to be identical to third row last number, apart from the first two digits (62 in the first and 33 in the second).

http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

They seem to be segments of Pi. Try running them through here and seeing what the places are, and then we might have a string of numbers that could translate to letters. Note that you may have to add one to each item because this does not include the three

I'm afraid only 31 and 88274153 were found by the website... But I think it may have somehing to do with it. Maybe each number represents a letter and 88274153 stands for "P"?

[Roger]

EDIT: Okay, first try. taking all of the 3s in the hint gives ...Didn't Data have this problem in an episode of ST:TNG? :)

The numbers do look familiar.

[cgmv123]

What could be the other 2

I think he's just messing with us. He knows how we'll react. Don't fall for it!

[BigJ]

Some possible analysis from my boss while I do actual work ;)

31 88 27 41 53,
62 23 41 41 53 26 41 23 83 97 53 88 97 88 53 31 97 31 26 23 83 83 53 88,
33 23 41 41 53 26 93 27 64 26 23 83 97 99 53 23 97 93 97

Pair Counts:

By number:
23 = 6
26 = 4
27 = 2
31 = 3
33 = 1
41 = 6
53 = 7
62 = 1
64 = 1
83 = 4
88 = 4
97 = 6
93 = 1
99 = 1

By frequency:
53 = 7 E
23 = 6 I
41 = 6 T
97 = 6
26 = 4
83 = 4
88 = 4
31 = 3
27 = 2
33 = 1
62 = 1
64 = 1
93 = 1
99 = 1

English Frequency list:
E T A O I N S H R D L C U M V F G Y P B V K J X Q Z

53 = E
41 = T
23 = I
31 = A
26 = N

A 88 27 T E,
62 I T T E N T I 83 97 E 88 97 88 E A 97 A N I 83 83 E 88,
33 I T T E N 93 27 64 N I 83 97 99 E I 97 93 97

[gyroscopeRaptor]

I just realised some number sequences repeat themselves...
31 obviously
2383 appears three times, second row first number, third row second number (31 as a different number), fourth row first number.
5388 twice, second row first number, third row second number. Both two digits apart from a 2383.

First row last number seems to be identical to third row last number, apart from the first two digits (62 in the first and 33 in the second).



I'm afraid only 31 and 88274153 were found by the website... But I think it may have somehing to do with it. Maybe each number represents a letter and 88274153 stands for "P"?

I've been going through each pair of two numbers. Nothing too conclusive yet.

[karomata]

Regarding the whole 3 alliances theory, there are about 10 FIRST Fields built, and many teams also have their own fields that they made. These fields are all 27x54 ft fields, and if there would be a 3rd alliance this year, FIRST would have had to restructure the formation of the field. It most likely would not be a rectangle like it has been in years past, therefore, it would not be the wisest move at all for FIRST to decide to change the shape of the field.

[MetalJacket]

The fact that thhis is labeled hint #number three seems to suggest both thee Rick Astley photo and the post about this hint were actual hints. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[Littleboy]

This is game hint #3. (or so they say)
The Rick Astley "hint" was taken at 3:00.

[AllenGregoryIV]

I find the kit dimensions (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts)more interesting.

AndyMark Drive Base Kit:
Size: 6" x 7" x 30"

Why is this not 38" long? It should be at least that big to fit a standard kit bot chassis rail? (I hoping this is just a typo and they didn't shrink the starting size to fit more robots, i.e. 3 alliances on the field)

Also the veteran kit stayed just about the same weight as last year.

[bardd]

I find the kit dimensions (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts)more interesting.



Why is this not 38" long? It should be at least that big to fit a standard kit bot chassis rail? (I hoping this is just a typo and they didn't shrink the starting size to fit more robots, i.e. 3 alliances on the field)

Also the veteran kit stayed just about the same weight as last year.

Interesting... change of chassis rules?

[karomata]

What could be the other 2

The Rick Astley Picture may have been a legit hint, and possibly another one was some vague statement once made on the blog that we missed...

[Conor Ryan]

Yellow Alliance.....

2 vs 2 vs 2.

Round game object.

Maybe a redux of Coopertition FIRST "Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down"

Lots of up and down motion

[Hallry]

Yellow Alliance.....

Just another set of bumpers that needs to be made and maintained...

[Andrew Lawrence]

Not sure if this is anything, but when translated from decimal to ASCII, the output is this:

 , 憞

ៜ ⧍



And it perfectly fits in the translator (no excess lettering or anything).

[karomata]

So the number 31 is repeated twice, so when searching it into a regular google search, one of the top links is this: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition31/index.html
This may refer to the game in some fashion because FIRST has been known to relate games to NASA missions and other accomplishments.

[DavisC]

also,
"31 is a centered triangular number, a centered pentagonal number and centered decagonal number."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/31_(number)

Triple Play over again?

[EOC]

In the rookie KOP only red and blue bumper material is provided. Indicating two alliances, not three.

[akoscielski3]

Some of them look like phone numbers... LETS START CALLING THEM ALL!

[Kimmeh]

Regarding the whole 3 alliances theory, there are about 10 FIRST Fields built, and many teams also have their own fields that they made. These fields are all 27x54 ft fields, and if there would be a 3rd alliance this year, FIRST would have had to restructure the formation of the field. It most likely would not be a rectangle like it has been in years past, therefore, it would not be the wisest move at all for FIRST to decide to change the shape of the field.

There's bound to be a transition as some point. There was one when we went from 2 x 2.

We can't use the argument that "That's how things are" when talking about the GDC.

Also, in regards to how a three minute match would influence overall event times, what if it's a three minute match and 3 x 3?*

*I have no numbers behind how that would influence match schedules. Nor do I want to do the math right now. Someone else is welcome to though.

[Hallry]

In the rookie KOP only red and blue bumper material is provided. Indicating two alliances, not three.

Well, that rules out three alliances. Next!

[MARS_James]

In the rookie KOP only red and blue bumper material is provided. Indicating two alliances, not three.

That or they didn't want to say another color thus showing their hand

[Hallry]

That or they didn't want to say another color thus showing their hand

Or maybe that's what the "Separate Item" in the Black Tote is...

[MARS_James]

Yellow Alliance.....



Just going to point out that in Ladder Logic (Which was 1v1v1) the third color was white

[sur]

Some possible analysis from my boss while I do actual work ;)

Using http://www.visca.com/regexdict/ to look for words matching those patterns gives this:

97 88 E A 97 (^(.).ea\1$): dread, treat
99 E I 97 93 97 (^.ei(.).\1$): nothing

If you don't force that last one to cover an entire word, it gives veining and semeiology.

[karomata]

There's bound to be a transition as some point. There was one when we went from 2 x 2.

We can't use the argument that "That's how things are" when talking about the GDC.

Also, in regards to how a three minute match would influence overall event times, what if it's a three minute match and 3 x 3?*

*I have no numbers behind how that would influence match schedules. Nor do I want to do the math right now. Someone else is welcome to though.

If the Rick Astley pic is a real hint, and matches are 3 minutes long, teams will have about 5 matches if it is 3 on 3 at championships. Just did some quick calculations based on last years schedual. The other problem with 3 on 3 on 3 is that it would not make for too great of a game, becuase as soon as you added like 148 or 1114 to one of the allainces, it unintentionally becomes 6 on 3.

[DavisC]

Or maybe that's what the "Separate Item" in the Black Tote is...

they say this: Separate Item-4" x 1" x 1"

I think that is too small for bumper fabric, unless it is a small sample

[Abrakadabra]

Let's get back to this:

Some possible analysis from my boss while I do actual work ;)

31 88 27 41 53,
62 23 41 41 53 26 41 23 83 97 53 88 97 88 53 31 97 31 26 23 83 83 53 88,
33 23 41 41 53 26 93 27 64 26 23 83 97 99 53 23 97 93 97

Pair Counts:

By number:
23 = 6
26 = 4
27 = 2
31 = 3
33 = 1
41 = 6
53 = 7
62 = 1
64 = 1
83 = 4
88 = 4
97 = 6
93 = 1
99 = 1

By frequency:
53 = 7 E
23 = 6 I
41 = 6 T
97 = 6
26 = 4
83 = 4
88 = 4
31 = 3
27 = 2
33 = 1
62 = 1
64 = 1
93 = 1
99 = 1

English Frequency list:
E T A O I N S H R D L C U M V F G Y P B V K J X Q Z

53 = E
41 = T
23 = I
31 = A
26 = N

A 88 27 T E,
62 I T T E N T I 83 97 E 88 97 88 E A 97 A N I 83 83 E 88,
33 I T T E N 93 27 64 N I 83 97 99 E I 97 93 97


Did all of you miss the almost complete decryption at the end of Josh's boss's analysis?


...
53 = E
41 = T
23 = I
31 = A
26 = N

A 88 27 T E,
62 I T T E N T I 83 97 E 88 97 88 E A 97 A N I 83 83 E 88,
33 I T T E N 93 27 64 N I 83 97 99 E I 97 93 97

This looks very promising!

[shepheal]

Speaking of 3, 3 is the most common number in the hint (23). The second most frequent is 2 (13).


WATER GAME

[BigJ]

Another update from my boss while I work :)

Here is the website:

http://www.blisstonia.com/software/WebDecrypto/index.php

If you replace the number pairs with letters, it allows you to treat this like a straight substitution cipher:

H GICA, LBCCAE CBFDAG DGAHD H EBFFAG, KBCCAE JIMEBFD NABDJD

But, the best solution to this still doesn't make much sense:

A RULE, KILLED LIFTER TREAT A DIFFER, WILLED HUNDIFT BEITHT

[karomata]

So the number 31 is repeated twice, so when searching it into a regular google search, one of the top links is this: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition31/index.html
This may refer to the game in some fashion because FIRST has been known to relate games to NASA missions and other accomplishments.

So thinking a bit more on this, what I am gaining from this theory, we may have a "safe zone" out in the middle of the field, or possibly there may be elements off the field that play a much larger role than in previous years. Still not sure though.

[Conor Ryan]

Just going to point out that in Ladder Logic (Which was 1v1v1) the third color was white

Logomotion had both White and Yellow Tubes...

[coalhot]

I have a feeling that there were two hints released today. The "official" hint, and the KOP information. The official hint is also probably a decoy to take suspicion off of the KOP info...

[dcarr]

Another update from my boss while I work :)

Rule and Lifter? Either quite a coincidence or we have something here...

[MARS_James]

as soon as you added like 148 or 1114 to one of the allainces, it unintentionally becomes 6 on 3.

How so?

[Hallry]

What could be the other 2

Since the title of the blog post is "Kit of Parts Info and an actual Game Hint", I don't think that the Rick Roll picture was a real hint.

Logomotion had both White and Yellow Tubes...

But the yellow was only used for the autonomous tubes, while the white were used for all of teleop. Remember, white is the third color in the F.I.R.S.T. logo.

[Thad House]

Did anyone notice that the KOP Site says the checklists for the KOP will come out 1/2/13 instead of 1/5/13 when kickoff is... Just something to think about.

[kalfuswi]

Went to the NASA page for the mission #31.Notice the launch date is today, the same day the hint was released....relation? As well, "Starry Night" is the background, possibly the game is space related?

[JesseK]

You guys are amateurs. Allow me to mentor you:

(Sector Name, X Y Z)
http://basilicus.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Coordinate_System

Now go, my minions.

(In all seriousness, did no one else key on the duplication of 341415326 in the same position of the sequence as an obvious coordinate system of some kind?)

[HumblePie]

Intrigued by the KOP dimensions, could be interesting if not a typo. We believe that the GDC works more than 1 year out, so I dug up this post from last year:

"On a slightly unrelated note, there has been a lot of speculation re: the return of minibots. Why not apply the "miniaturization" principle to the grown-up bot? The 38 x 28 footprint has been somewhat sacred lately, and it's possible that the GDC had issues with so many chassis designs being "recirculated" from Rack 'n Roll last year. The new CRio is smaller, why not the robots? A smaller footprint would force many teams to rethink their entire packaging scheme."

Smaller robots might make a 3 alliance match feasible, or are we missing the obvious witht the multi-colored push pins, and the GAME PIECES come in 3 colors (red/yellow/blue)?

[kalfuswi]

Smaller robots might make a 3 alliance match feasible, or are we missing the obvious witht the multi-colored push pins, and the GAME PIECES come in 3 colors (red/yellow/blue)?

Also notice there are 2 red ones, perhaps the red alliance could be larger than the blue or yellow, or if it's game pieces, perhaps red is worth more?

[Hallry]

Also notice there are 2 red ones, perhaps the red alliance could be larger than the blue or yellow

What would the point of that be?

Also, there is no indication that the Rick Roll picture is an official hint. Notice how the recent blog post today calls the new one an "actual Game Hint."

[kalfuswi]

maybe one alliance is supposed to defend something and the others have to cooperate to achieve it

[mlantry]

What would the point of that be?

Also, there is no indication that the Rick Roll picture is an official hint. Notice how the recent blog post today calls the new one an "actual Game Hint."

but the photo was taken exactly on minute three as pointed out earlier. also i love how were all from the same team arguing about it

[FRCTeam3293]

Remember to eat your Ovaltine!

Just had to throw that out for Christmas Story Fans!

[mklinker]

Could the key to the code be found within the Mayan calendar? 31 is a significant number in some forms of that calendar.

[Gil3075]

I think that every two digits represent a letter...

31 / 88 27 41 53, / 62 23 41 41 53 26
41 23 83 97 53 88 / 97 88 53 31 97
31 / 26 23 83 83 53 88, / 33 23 41 41 53 26
93 27 64 26 23 83 97 / 99 53 23 97 93 97

and it means that the whole thing is made of 14 different letters:

31 - probably A or I
88
27
41
53
62
23
26
83
97
33
93
64
99

5 of these must be aeiou, and additional 9 others

now what?

[HumblePie]

Also notice there are 2 red ones, perhaps the red alliance could be larger than the blue or yellow, or if it's game pieces, perhaps red is worth more?

They could have different point values, or maybe the red one causes some sort of penalty? I think the notion of a color sensor on board is interesting. Maybe a color sensor is in the "box to be named later"? Hmmmm....

[gyroscopeRaptor]

http://www.angio.net/pi/piquery

They seem to be segments of Pi. Try running them through here and seeing what the places are, and then we might have a string of numbers that could translate to letters.

31__88 27 41 53,_62 23 41 41 53 26
00__34 28 02 08,_21 16 02 02 08 06
41 23 83 97 53 88__97 88 53 31 97

31__26 23 83 83 53 88,_33 23 41 41 53 26

93 27 64 26 23 83 97__99 53 23 97 93 97

It won't be directly translated into words, still.

Replacing each couplet of Pi numberals with its position in pi, we get:
a robe, kibbed

binger greag

a dinner, mibbed

volding weigvg

31 41 59 26 53 58 97 93 23 84 62 64 33 83 27 95 02 88 41 97 16 93 99 37 51 05
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z

31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397

[kalfuswi]

I plugged it into an ASCII/Unicode converter and got nothing....trying hexadecimal values

[Roger]

31.88274153, 62.2341415326 = western Afghanistan
41.2383975388, 97.88533197 = mid-west northern China
31.262383835388, 33.2341415326 = off north coast of Sinai
93.276426238397, 99.5323979397 = Google found FRC Blog and CD :o

Well, it's further away than 42.349905,-71.076072 but who's up for a road trip? The first positions do sort of line up.

HumblePie: that is an interesting thought, shrinking the robot size down, if only a little. Maybe the typo's are a hint?

[Nate Laverdure]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

EDIT: This was simple substitution EXCEPT that '97' stands for both G and T. See discussion below.

[kalfuswi]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

How did you get this?

[Hallry]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

I wouldn't call Rick Astley 'great'...

[sur]

Replacing each couplet of Pi numberals with its position in pi, we get:
a robe, kibbed

binger greag

a dinner, mibbed

volding weigvg

If you replace 'b' with 'l', then you get

a role, killed
linger greag
a dinner, milled
volding weigvg

which seems to make more sense.

[HumblePie]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

I dunno....this reminds me more of MEATLOAF.....

[Jay1986]

If you guys really want to learn about the number 3, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvtbkz5HY_o

[Nate Laverdure]

How did you get this?
You have to assume '97' encodes to two different characters-- both 'G' and 'T'. Otherwise it's internally consistent.

[BigJ]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

While exciting, the final 3 pairs are 97, 93, 97. Are you using some other kind of cipher or another method altogether?

Edit: nevermind

Edit 2: I think Seal is a great singer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_from_a_Rose

[danopia]

Tried most of my usual ASCII tricks and didn't get very far, just random charactors. :/

[AlftanSr]

Just trying to throw fuel on the flame...here's the possible 2nd hint:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-einstein-update-and-game-hint-status

Maybe it is a coincidence that the hint was released today. The Aztecs had a Triple Alliance. However, the Aztec are not the Maya...

[SenorZ]

Coincidence, geometrically, means occupying the same space? So perhaps a stacking game... The THIRD stacking game ever???

I like the riddle cipher though!

[Sam390250]

Three atoms make up a water molecule. Clearly its a water game.

[Nate Laverdure]

31 41 59 26 53 58 97 93 23 84 62 64 33 83 27 95 02 88 41 97 16 93 99 37 51 05
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Aha, here's the reason for the 97 collision!

[who716]

Got my hopes up, when i google imaged search the numbers one photo came up but it turned out to be just a site that the hint was posted on

[JesseK]

Edit 2: I think Seal is a great singer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_from_a_Rose

Hard to tell: the riddle sounds like the rose received the kiss, rather than the rose did the kiss.

[kalfuswi]

I think Seal is a great singer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_from_a_Rose

"SINGER GREAT"......

.....He won an award for "Best Male Pop Vocal"

[GBilletdeaux930]

Triangles have 3 sides...

Tetras?

[cgmv123]

The pairs aren't element numbers as far as I can tell. Got nowhere.

[EOC]

If you google each of those numbers individually, most of them don't turn up anything... but 88274153 has quite a few hits!

88274153:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/silhouette-of-mature-woman-on-sailboat-royalty-free-image/88274153

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sterile/88274153/

http://www.pbase.com/image/88274153

It is alarming that each image is related to water.

[Jorge Ayala]

Well, as a proud Mexican I know a thing or two about this madness that involves the Mayan calendar. For the Mayans the number twenty was very important, indeed their numerical system is based in the number twenty (I case you didn't know Mayans still exist in the south of Mexico). The Mayans had two calendars, one of 260 days for ritual purposes and another of 365 days (they really were excellent astronomers, the calendar was pretty accurate for that time). The calendar of 365 days consisted of 18 months with 20 days each, the final five days of the year were considered as "unlucky days" and didn't figure in any month.

I hope this information helps someone his search for the meaning of the hint, and if that is not the case, at least you know something more about the Mayan culture :D

[ttldomination]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

Running with this (because it seems to be the most solid thing we have so far):

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT

Maybe someone with more of an literary mind-set might elaborate on how the ROSE portion is significant, but I think this is in reference to Rick Astley. ("Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down").

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Let's see, A DINNER, MISSED, perhaps this means that the robot will not be able to consume game pieces, ie intake pieces. HOLDING WEIGHT is interesting because it ties back into the Rick Astley song. Maybe this indicates that lifting/holding other teammates will grant you end-game points?

- Sunny G.

[mickztlin]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

EDIT: This was simple substitution EXCEPT that '97' stands for both G and T. See discussion below.

i looked it up its a titanic quote,

water game

[coalhot]

My theory: singing robots.

[BigJ]

I think we can confirm the pi-cipher

[karomata]

Running with this (because it seems to be the most solid thing we have so far):



Maybe someone with more of an literary mind-set might elaborate on how the ROSE portion is significant, but I think this is in reference to Rick Astley. ("Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down").



Let's see, A DINNER, MISSED, perhaps this means that the robot will not be able to consume game pieces, ie intake pieces. HOLDING WEIGHT is interesting because it ties back into the Rick Astley song. Maybe this indicates that lifting/holding other teammates will grant you end-game points?

- Sunny G.

This seems very plausable and realistic based on what FIRST has done in the past, and also goes with the whole arm game idea, which this would most likely be if robots cannot intake game pieces. I believe we are on to something, or else the GDC would have made a code that didn't work when trying to be processed the way this one was.

[Thad House]

Something interesting is that if you add all the numbers in 12/21/12 you get 3/3/3...

[BigJ]

As a previous poster pointed out:

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT

Seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(musician)) won 3 Grammys in '96 for the song "Kiss From a Rose". I refuse to believe this is a coincedence! :D

[JohnChristensen]

So I was looking at the KoP site. Veterans are getting two extra boxes with the KoP this year. The first one has a density of about 81.8 lbs/ft cubed. The second box has a density of about 76.0 lbs/ft cubed. These are heavy boxes.

Note: The rookies are also getting a box the same size as the veteran box two, however their's only weighs 3 lbs, not 10 lbs.

Anyone think these could be game elements?

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Yep, the rhyme Nate posted is the real translation. H and V, G and T, S and B both have the same set of digits.

Great work, guys!

[karomata]

I still believe that we need to look into the NASA website a bit more in depth. Mission 31 launched today, meaning that maybe the GDC worked with NASA when creating this hint. On the blog, it even says that this hint is really good. I would assume that what they mean by that is that it is a very interesting/complex hint. The website is:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition31/index.html
This is one of the first few links that you get on Google when you search 31, the only repeating isolated number in the chain of code. This might very well be worth looking into, because it is plausable that the GDC decided to to another NASA themed game, similar to Lunacy, and looking at it from a worldy aspect, NASA recently lost government funding, they could use some promotional events to help them sustain in the upcoming years, unless the world ends today.

This definantly could be a substancial lead in understanding the meaning of this hint.

[Justin Montois]

As a previous poster pointed out:



Seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(musician)) won 3 Grammys in '96 for the song "Kiss From a Rose". I refuse to believe this is a coincedence! :D

Interesting that though the Grammy was won in 1996, the song was released in the US in 1995. The FIRST game in 1995 was Ramp n' Roll, Similar to "Rick Roll" No?

EDIT: Overview of Ramp n' Roll:

In two minute matches, three robots race down a 30-foot
raceway, over a speed bump just wide enough for two to
pass through, to retrieve their 24” and 30” vinyl balls. To
score, they must carry the ball(s) back up the raceway
and push or shoot the ball over a nine-foot field goal
from either the playing floor or a raised platform area, all
the while trying to keep their opponents from scoring.
Teams may score more than once with each ball – the
smaller ball is worth two points and the larger ball is
worth three points.

2013 Game Name: Seal the Deal ;)

[Sean Raia]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

"Holding Weight" I believe, is the real hint here.
The second line corresponds to the first hint (Rick Astley)
The third line corresponds to the the second hint ("End of the world")

I still don't understand the Rose Kissed part.

[JohnChristensen]

I still believe that we need to look into the NASA website a bit more in depth. Mission 31 launched today, meaning that maybe the GDC worked with NASA when creating this hint. On the blog, it even says that this hint is really good. I would assume that what they mean by that is that it is a very interesting/complex hint. The website is:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition31/index.html
This is one of the first few links that you get on Google when you search 31, the only repeating isolated number in the chain of code. This might very well be worth looking into, because it is plausable that the GDC decided to to another NASA themed game, similar to Lunacy, and looking at it from a worldy aspect, NASA recently lost government funding, they could use some promotional events to help them sustain in the upcoming years, unless the world ends today.

This definantly could be a substancial lead in understanding the meaning of this hint.


I think I must be missing something. It appears to me that Mission 31 launched exactly one year ago today, not today. So 366 days between the dates.

EDIT: What if the "HOLDING WEIGHT" line refers to heavy game elements. Last year at championships, they had a guy from NASA speaking about the Curiosity mission. I forget his exact quote, but the way he said it and what he said made me immediately think it was a game hint. This is really out there, but what if the game is based on Mars and heavy Mars rocks (could be the two boxes in the KoP?). There have been '3' games between the last NASA game and now...

[goodsky]

I'll just toss my thoughts out here.

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT

all seems to refer to Seal to me.

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Seems to refer to a single something that I can't figure out. This would make the answer to the riddle "Seal X". Some short phrase or something. Does anyone else have any ideas along these lines?

[Culvan Van Li]

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Seems to refer to a single something that I can't figure out. This would make the answer to the riddle "Seal X". Some short phrase or something. Does anyone else have any ideas along these lines?

Missing a meal could be called "Fasting" or it could make you "tighten your belt".

Andy

[Bill_B]

Last year's FTC game involved holding weight - as high as they could - stacking game.

[Roger]

Got my hopes up, when i google imaged search the numbers one photo came up but it turned out to be just a site that the hint was posted onSorry... had nothing better to do. :o

"Kiss from a Rose" song lyrics:

There used to be a greying tower alone on the sea
You became the light on the dark side of me
Love remains a drug that's the high and not the pill
But did you know that when it snows
My eyes become large
And the light that you shine can't be seen?

[Chorus]
Baby, I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey
Ooo, the more I get of you, the stranger it feels, yeah
Now that your rose is in bloom
A light hits the gloom on the grey

...Lighthouses? When it snows == build season? IR lights?

Also was sung in the movie "Batman Forever" -- something about Dark Knights/Nights?

[coalhot]

A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT


How about this? You miss a dinner, yet you don't lose any weight. Sounds like something is being removed, yet it's not affecting/changing anything.

[MelodyPond]

Intrigued by the KOP dimensions, could be interesting if not a typo. We believe that the GDC works more than 1 year out, so I dug up this post from last year:

"On a slightly unrelated note, there has been a lot of speculation re: the return of minibots. Why not apply the "miniaturization" principle to the grown-up bot? The 38 x 28 footprint has been somewhat sacred lately, and it's possible that the GDC had issues with so many chassis designs being "recirculated" from Rack 'n Roll last year. The new CRio is smaller, why not the robots? A smaller footprint would force many teams to rethink their entire packaging scheme."

Smaller robots might make a 3 alliance match feasible, or are we missing the obvious witht the multi-colored push pins, and the GAME PIECES come in 3 colors (red/yellow/blue)?
Yellow was the color of the autonomous Logomotion tubes right? There were three different colored pins, and the third color was yellow. If the rumors are true that there may be 3 minute matches, then the rumors that there will be longer autonomous rounds could be explained by the third push pin. Right?

[rlowe61]

So the number 31 is repeated twice, so when searching it into a regular google search, one of the top links is this: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition31/index.html
This may refer to the game in some fashion because FIRST has been known to relate games to NASA missions and other accomplishments.

If you look at the link, during mission 31, they experimented with "Water".....Water Game

[CalTran]

For y'all, h2o is a bent molecule, easily converted to a triangular shape (clear "bond" thing between the hydrogen) there's your water game

[Sean Raia]

I dunno....this reminds me more of MEATLOAF.....

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT
It could be both Seal, and Meatloaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_Loaf).
I don't believe that's what they were going for, but maybe there is something in common between the two singers.

[Walter Deitzler]

How about this? You miss a dinner, yet you don't lose any weight. Sounds like something is being removed, yet it's not affecting/changing anything.

Well, with the fact that there seems to be a smaller chassis (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/kit-of-parts). This could mean that sized is removed from the robot allowance, yet it shouldn't subtract from the overall play of the game.

[LightSpeedIII]

So, a few of the team members here (myself included) have made a link between the line "A DINNER, MISSED".
If you go back on the FRC Blog, you will notice that they had a blog post about a dinner for the FRC staff, Frank lists those who attended in the post.
We figured that someone was missing from the list, thus "missed", so we looked into it and found out that the FRC staff has 19 people on it, the list contains 18 (including Frank, who posted it). So ChiefDelphi, the question is... Who is missing?

[danopia]

Seems to me like there's a smaller chassis but the weight limit isn't reduced?

[MelodyPond]

Intrigued by the KOP dimensions, could be interesting if not a typo. We believe that the GDC works more than 1 year out, so I dug up this post from last year:

"On a slightly unrelated note, there has been a lot of speculation re: the return of minibots. Why not apply the "miniaturization" principle to the grown-up bot? The 38 x 28 footprint has been somewhat sacred lately, and it's possible that the GDC had issues with so many chassis designs being "recirculated" from Rack 'n Roll last year. The new CRio is smaller, why not the robots? A smaller footprint would force many teams to rethink their entire packaging scheme."

Smaller robots might make a 3 alliance match feasible, or are we missing the obvious witht the multi-colored push pins, and the GAME PIECES come in 3 colors (red/yellow/blue)?


The yellow tubes in Logomotion were the autonomous tubes correct? If the rumors about a 3 minute match are true, then it's possible the third yellow push pin could indicate longer autonomous periods. Also wouldn't a longer (3 minute) match cause another issue on power conservation since batteries are already shot by the end of those 2:15 matches! Challenge accepted.

[Roger]

It could be both Seal, and Meatloaf.
I don't believe that's what they were going for, but maybe there is something in common between the two singers.Both bats! (Batman Forever and Bat out of Hell)

[karomata]

So, a few of the team members here (myself included) have made a link between the line "A DINNER, MISSED".
If you go back on the FRC Blog, you will notice that they had a blog post about a dinner for the FRC staff, Frank lists those who attended in the post.
We figured that someone was missing from the list, thus "missed", so we looked into it and found out that the FRC staff has 19 people on it, the list contains 18 (including Frank, who posted it). So ChiefDelphi, the question is... Who is missing?

Can you provide a link to this entry, I can't seem to find it...

[BigJ]

So, a few of the team members here (myself included) have made a link between the line "A DINNER, MISSED".
If you go back on the FRC Blog, you will notice that they had a blog post about a dinner for the FRC staff, Frank lists those who attended in the post.
We figured that someone was missing from the list, thus "missed", so we looked into it and found out that the FRC staff has 19 people on it, the list contains 18 (including Frank, who posted it). So ChiefDelphi, the question is... Who is missing?

Sounds like the "second clue" was the FRC staff list?

Edit: Where is your 19-person source from?

[Justin Montois]

How about this? You miss a dinner, yet you don't lose any weight. Sounds like something is being removed, yet it's not affecting/changing anything.

You might be onto something. The AM kitbot appears to be only 30" long. A dinner missed, holding weight may mean robots get smaller, weight allowance stays the same?

[AllenGregoryIV]

Another reason to believe that the size has changed is they have been very reluctant to post details about the new belt system. You would think FRC/AndyMark/Gates would want teams prepared for the change but we haven't seen anything at allow outside of the announcement that it will be belt and that teams will be able to do an all wheel powered 6 wheel drive. If they told us the belt lengths we could quickly learn that it was for a non-38" long chassis.

I'm guessing 28 x 28 robots.

[ChiefDJ]

TRY BINARY

[Justin Montois]

Sounds like the "second clue" was the FRC staff list?

Edit: Where is your 19-person source from?

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-the-frc-staff

Doesn't mention 19 People being on Staff or anyone missing...

[coalhot]

So, a few of the team members here (myself included) have made a link between the line "A DINNER, MISSED".
If you go back on the FRC Blog, you will notice that they had a blog post about a dinner for the FRC staff, Frank lists those who attended in the post.
We figured that someone was missing from the list, thus "missed", so we looked into it and found out that the FRC staff has 19 people on it, the list contains 18 (including Frank, who posted it). So ChiefDelphi, the question is... Who is missing?

You missed the part where he says Dean was there. It makes 19 then...

[ebmonon36]

Another reason to believe that the size has changed is they have been very reluctant to post details about the new belt system. You would think FRC/AndyMark/Gates would want teams prepared for the change but we haven't seen anything at allow outside of the announcement that it will be belt and that teams will be able to do an all wheel powered 6 wheel drive. If they told us the belt lengths we could quickly learn that it was for a non-38" long chassis.

I'm guessing 28 x 28 robots.

Which could go along with the Dinner missed = tightening your belt -> making it shorter.

[LightSpeedIII]

Can you provide a link to this entry, I can't seem to find it...

We got 19 staff members from here (http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/nlsep12/frc-highlights)

The blog post about the dinner can be found here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-the-frc-staff)

[CalTran]

Another reason to believe that the size has changed is they have been very reluctant to post details about the new belt system. You would think FRC/AndyMark/Gates would want teams prepared for the change but we haven't seen anything at allow outside of the announcement that it will be belt and that teams will be able to do an all wheel powered 6 wheel drive. If they told us the belt lengths we could quickly learn that it was for a non-38" long chassis.

I'm guessing 28 x 28 robots.

Does that mean 469 figured it out a full year before the hint was even released? I don't think they told anyone the sizing because that's too much of a hint.

[colin340]

Lighthouses? When it snows == build season? IR lights?



some lighthouses used a suspended weight to spin the lens

[Sean Raia]

We got 19 staff members from here (http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/nlsep12/frc-highlights)

The blog post about the dinner can be found here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-the-frc-staff)

I don't think Dean is part of the staff. The missing name is Frank's.

[coalhot]

I don't think Dean is part of the staff. The missing name is Frank's.

If you take the list of names and add Frank, it makes 18 though...

This is interesting though. Is it a coincidence, or a typo, or a hint?

[Dancin103]

Some of them look like phone numbers... LETS START CALLING THEM ALL!

Haha I'm trying to read all of this on my phone and well, I did dial one by accident. I got Louisiana.

[chmorroni]

Anyone else notice how they spelled "credits" as "creidts" on the FIRST Choice page on AndyMark?

http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-Public-Viewing-2013-s/411.htm

[coalhot]

Hint hint guys, try looking up the 17 FRC staff members listed (google searches, linkedin). There's some interesting stuff there...

[Roger]

If you take the list of names and add Frank...... mix up all the letters, shift forward one letter, add "BAT", you'll get a phrase that will be the password to the pre-kickoff game manual file!

[mdaniel462]

My speculation:

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Assuming that this is correct and considering that this hint is probably just a hint for the name of the game, which doesn't really reveal anything.

I bet that the name of the game is:

Seal Stand Strut

A ROSE, KISSED SINGER GREAT = Seal

A DINNER, MISSED ( if you miss a dinner, you STAND someone up)

HOLDING WEIGHT = Strut


This satisfies the need for literary consonance (Rebound Rumble, Rack 'n Roll, Zone Zeal, Diabolical Dynamics, Ladder Logic, Toroid Terror, Hexagon Havoc, Ramp 'n Roll, Rug Rage) as well as the implication to a water game or a new robot dance :P.

[Fifthparallel]

You are supposed to decode the list of numbers with a Base 18 or Base 20 number system, the same used on the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar mentioned in the Hint about a Hint.

So far, I have been unsuccessful. I believe that it may be encoded in Base 18 (the first letter in the list of names also correspond to the same) and then further encoded in Base 3 or incorporates it. As previously mentioned, The number of names in the list total to 18 when you add Frank's name.

So far, I have been using the Base64 and Binascii libraries in Python 3.3 to try encoding and decoding all of these. There is an online converter that takes numbers and converts them to different base-N configurations as well.

[bardd]

My guess is we'll need to light up towers by placing weight on them, the towers will have weight sensors on them and LEDs along the bottom (like the LEDs the bridges in 2012). The higher the weight on the sensors, the brighter the LEDs get. You get points in accordance to the brightness of your tower. There will be different levels, each causing the brightness to change more than those beneath it.

If I'm rong and that's not the game, DIBS on designing it!!!

[dcarr]

This satisfies the need for literary consonance (Rebound Rumble, Rack 'n Roll, Zone Zeal, Diabolical Dynamics, Ladder Logic, Toroid Terror, Hexagon Havoc, Ramp 'n Roll, Rug Rage) as well as the implication to a water game or a new robot dance :P.

It's also a serious tongue-twister

My guess is we'll need to light up towers by placing weight on them, the towers will have weight sensors on them and LEDs along the bottom (like the LEDs the bridges in 2012). The higher the weight on the sensors, the brighter the LEDs get. You get points in accordance to the brightness of your tower. There will be different levels, each causing the brightness to change more than those beneath it.

FIRST tries to design field elements that can easily be replicated by teams for a low cost. I think we can assume they'll keep that up. This sounds like it would be significantly more expensive.

[Robo Hamsters]

In the rookie KOP only red and blue bumper material is provided. Indicating two alliances, not three.

Except that the list is only showing the variations between rookie and vetran teams. Both kits could have yellow bumper material.

[coalhot]

Hint hint guys, try looking up the 17 FRC staff members listed (google searches, linkedin). There's some interesting stuff there...

I should preface this by saying that this may be a total red herring.

The line "A ROSE KISSED" may have something to do with one of the FRC staff that Frank posted in the list, Rose Kue (LinkedIN (http://www.linkedin.com/in/rosekue)).

This may explain all the musical-related hits we've been getting...:eek:

EDIT: She's a music major.

[Donut]

I'm not so sure on the initial part of the riddle, but "HOLDING WEIGHT" could just refer to the withholding allowance changing. Of course that may be a bit too literal for the GDC...

[billbo911]

Which could go along with the Dinner missed = tightening your belt -> making it shorter.

Or, "Dinner missed = tightening your belt ->" could be referring to the drive base which is in the KOP. It is a belt drive system.
Maybe belt drive will be mandatory this year just like the hard wheels were required for Lunacy.

Although, missing dinner sounds more like a "refueling station", also from Lunacy. Not "refueling" could also prevent certain actions during the game.

[bardd]

FIRST tries to design field elements that can easily be replicated by teams for a low cost. I think we can assume they'll keep that up. This sounds like it would be significantly more expensive.

I disagree. Building such a tower shouldn't be more expensive/hard than building a large table. Granted, teams won't be able to replicate the sensors, but they also probably couldn't replicate the sensors on the basket in 2012 or those on the ball return rail in 2010.


Maybe belt drive will be mandatory this year just like the hard wheels were required for Lunacy.

I don't hink so... I'm fairly sure Frank pointed out at some point that you'd still be able to purchase chains. Why would he say that if chains are illegal?
(working on a quote)

[CalTran]

Or, "Dinner missed = tightening your belt ->" could be referring to the drive base which is in the KOP. It is a belt drive system.
Maybe belt drive will be mandatory this year just like the hard wheels were required for Lunacy.

Although, missing dinner sounds more like a "refueling station", also from Lunacy. Not "refueling" could also prevent certain actions during the game.

If a belt drive was mandatory than they wouldn't have let veterans opt out of the kit bot.

I'm stool skeptical on the translation produced...

[billbo911]

If a belt drive was mandatory than they wouldn't have let veterans opt out of the kit bot.

I'm stool skeptical on the translation produced...

Really?? Shouldn't veteran teams know not to purchase all their materials prior to Kickoff? Shouldn't they be able to build belt drives even after Kickoff?

[Anthony Galea]

The people here are saying things about Seal, so maybe we are replaying Zone Zeal...

[Kevin Thorp]

Check out this cute seal, kissing a ball, standing on his 2 flippers, like a balancing iBot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBOT).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RCwN4ePYNhY/SEl0EoI-kCI/AAAAAAAAAPw/Xewe-7cxyMY/s320/water%2Bworld%2Bpic%2Bof%2Bseal%2Bstanding%2Bon%2B fins%2Band%2Bbalancing%2Bball%2B26A_edited_edited% 2B2.jpg

[Sean Raia]

Check out this cute seal, kissing a ball, standing on his 2 flippers, like a balancing iBot.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RCwN4ePYNhY/SEl0EoI-kCI/AAAAAAAAAPw/Xewe-7cxyMY/s320/water%2Bworld%2Bpic%2Bof%2Bseal%2Bstanding%2Bon%2B fins%2Band%2Bbalancing%2Bball%2B26A_edited_edited% 2B2.jpg

I wouldn't say he was kissing the ball, but I like the literal interpretation of Seal.
I think there's more to work with here.

Perhaps the game piece is a ball that "missed dinner" and has holes in it.

[dk5sm5luigi]

Going a different route, if you assume it is in decimal and convert that to ASCII you get:

 , 憞
ៜ ⧍
 飼, 趞
禽 ꚅ

Put that through Google Translate you get:


? , Dun
ៜ ⧍
? Feeding, Qi
Poultry ꚅ

[Grim Tuesday]

So we looked up the seal song and at the the minute mark the words are "if I should fall along the way baby"

In combination with the Rick astley 3 mins this is very interesting. "never gonna let you down"

[CalTran]

Really?? Shouldn't veteran teams know not to purchase all their materials prior to Kickoff? Shouldn't they be able to build belt drives even after Kickoff?

It's not such buying material before kick off but is the fact many veteran teams prototype drives before season. And the voucher allows for buying material that doesn't help with belt drive. Meaning we would have another one of the "we have to buy belts and count it on our BOM whereas other teams didn't" sort of deal

[Clinton Bolinger]

KoP Sizes:

All Teams (including Rookies):
Tote 1 - 18" x 27" x 13" - 48 lbs - Standard Totes we have been getting
Box 1 - 6.5" x 6.5" x 3" - 6 lbs - ???Maybe the BaneBot Motor Box???
Box 2 - 10" x 6.5" x 3.5" - 10 lbs - Battery 1 Box (but weight should be 13 lbs)
Separate Item - 4" x 1" x 1" - 0.5 lbs - ???

Rookie Kit:
Tote 2 - 18" x 27" x 13" - 40 lbs - (2012 Rookie Kit (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2013-rookie-veteran-variation))
Box 3 - 10" x 6.5" x 3.5" - 10 lbs - Battery 2 Box (but weight should be 13 lbs)

AndyMark Drive Base:
Box 4 - 6" x 7" x 30" - 24 lbs - Very interesting because it can not fit the standard C-Channel from previous KoPs (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0202.htm)

Enjoy!

-Clinton-

[billbo911]

It's not such buying material before kick off but is the fact many veteran teams prototype drives before season. And the voucher allows for buying material that doesn't help with belt drive. Meaning we would have another one of the "we have to buy belts and count it on our BOM whereas other teams didn't" sort of deal

The same issue occurred with Lunacy and every team that bought wheels prior to Kickoff. Why couldn't that approach apply this year?

[Brandon_L]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Somebody please verify!!

EDIT: This was simple substitution EXCEPT that '97' stands for both G and T. See discussion below.

Went through the entire thread, I have yet to see how you got this...

EDIT: Just kidding!

[billbo911]

KoP Sizes:.....
AndyMark Drive Base:
Box 4 - 6" x 7" x 30" - 24 lbs - Very interesting because it can not fit the standard C-Channel from previous KoPs (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0202.htm)

Enjoy!

-Clinton-

Note the "30"" max dimension on the KOP drive base. Typo or legit? Smaller drive bases possibly? I know I'm not the first to mention this.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Note the "30"" max dimension on the KOP drive base. Typo or legit? Smaller drive bases possibly? I know I'm not the first to mention this.

Unless the new Belt drive base is design slightly different. Maybe has belt tensioners built into the front and back rails. Instead of 1" c-channels maybe they are 3.5" pieces.

-Clinton-

[rsegrest]

Went to the NASA page for the mission #31.Notice the launch date is today, the same day the hint was released....relation? As well, "Starry Night" is the background, possibly the game is space related?

Ok, maybe someone has already posted this but...here goes....

Hint 1 - Rick Astley chorus - 'Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down'

Today - Expedition 31 launched and if you notice the 1st video listed is 'Science of the sphere: Yo-Yos in Space'

Yo-yos go up and down and are round...

Thoughts?

::safety::

[CalTran]

The same issue occurred with Lunacy and every team that bought wheels prior to Kickoff. Why couldn't that approach apply this year?

I wasn't on a team that year but 4 lunacy wheels were provided in the kit, right?

[Chris is me]

I wasn't on a team that year but 4 lunacy wheels were provided in the kit, right?

Yes. What he's saying though is that it's not uncommon for FIRST to punish teams who pre-purchase materials expecting to use them in the upcoming season.

As for the hint, I have no idea. 31 is the max IV in Pokemon. Must be a Pokemon game.

[runneals]

The fact that thhis is labeled hint #number three seems to suggest both thee Rick Astley photo and the post about this hint were actual hints. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

And there was a 3 day difference b/w the post about this hint and this hint...

[Kevin Thorp]

In the past have there been problems with the size & weight of the robots? They've grown over the years, when you add the bumper and battery weight. Maybe FIRST has serious concerns about safety and transportation issues so they've "downsized" for 2013.

This parallels the downsizing of American cars to help meet the new more stringent CAFE standards and lower carbon footprint. Automotive companies and suppliers are a big part of FRC.

This move would also reduce the veteran team advantage of pulling an old chassis design off the shelf & reusing it in the new game.

[billbo911]

I wasn't on a team that year but 4 lunacy wheels were provided in the kit, right?

Yes they were, and fortunately, they were available for purchase from AndyMark (http://www.andymark.biz). Because, if you dropped one onto a concrete floor, you quickly found out how easy it was to crack one.

http://billbo911.smugmug.com/Other/Experimental/i-Ddf2NKw/0/L/_MG_7101-L.jpg

[Sean Raia]

So we have "Seal", and then tightening your belt. Which has turned into a discussion about belt drives, which turned into a discussion about lunacy wheels.

It might just be me, but I think this thread took a wrong turn somewhere.

[Walter Deitzler]

As for the hint, I have no idea. 31 is the max IV in Pokemon. Must be a Pokemon game.

And then alliance selections would be like "Team xxxx, I choose you!"

[coalhot]

And then alliance selections would be like "Team xxxx, I choose you!"

This would be awesome. I vote for this to be the hint! :D

[dellagd]

This move would also reduce the veteran team advantage of pulling an old chassis design off the shelf & reusing it in the new game.

+1 for that

Still, I hope they keep the same size, though with the drive base kit, that is seeming pretty impossible right now...

[yarden.saa]

Note the "30"" max dimension on the KOP drive base. Typo or legit? Smaller drive bases possibly? I know I'm not the first to mention this.

Frank's earliest blog post about the evolution of the KoP cause me to think it is a typo

If your team decides to receive the 2013 KOP Drive System, you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012, and with enough material to drive all six wheels. The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction. The estimated final drive speed is about 10 feet per second.

Thanks to our partnership with AndyMark and with a donation from Gates, we are switching from chains to belts to drive the wheels. The KOP Drive System has been designed to be set up as either a six wheel drive “long” robot, or a four wheel drive “wide” robot.

We believe this is a positive change for a number of reasons. The belt system is between 1.5 and 2 pounds lighter than a chain drive system. Belts have also been shown through FRC-specific testing to be a more efficient system than chain drives. The assembly time for the KOP Drive System should also be reduced, since you no longer have to break chain or assemble master links. Chain may provide greater flexibility in design, but we believe, for the stated overall goal for the KOP Drive System, a belt system comes out on top.

He described the drivebase very specifcly so, I can assume there is no change in the dimensions because, this drive base can be wide or long as in previous years...

[Walter Deitzler]

Frank's earliest blog post about the evolution of the KoP cause me to think it is a typo



He described the drivebase very specifcly so I can assume there is no change in the dimensions because we this drive base can be wide or long as in previous years...
I would agree that it probably won't be 28x28, as he states that it can be either long or wide, but he does not mention dimensions staying the same. it could be a 30x20.

[dellagd]

If your team decides to receive the 2013 KOP Drive System, you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012, and with enough material to drive all six wheels. The 2013 gearbox is a ToughBox Mini with 10.71:1 reduction. The estimated final drive speed is about 10 feet per second.

Thanks to our partnership with AndyMark and with a donation from Gates, we are switching from chains to belts to drive the wheels. The KOP Drive System has been designed to be set up as either a six wheel drive “long” robot, or a four wheel drive “wide” robot.

We believe this is a positive change for a number of reasons. The belt system is between 1.5 and 2 pounds lighter than a chain drive system. Belts have also been shown through FRC-specific testing to be a more efficient system than chain drives. The assembly time for the KOP Drive System should also be reduced, since you no longer have to break chain or assemble master links. Chain may provide greater flexibility in design, but we believe, for the stated overall goal for the KOP Drive System, a belt system comes out on top.

Actually, this makes me think the opposite.

He dances around saying the dimensions, using "similar" and then emphasizing how the wheels are the same. Makes me think he was trying not to give it away.

[yarden.saa]

I would agree that it probably won't be 28x28, as he states that it can be either long or wide, but he does not mention dimensions staying the same. it could be a 30x20.

The difference between FRC and FTC is the size of the robots, 20*30 is almost FTC robot

[jvriezen]

The game will involve lowering something (a minibot of sorts ?) in a manner similar to the lowering of Curiosity to the surface. The 4"x1"x1" item is some spool of high strength tether for lowering that didn't make it in time to get packaged in KOP box.

Either that, or I'm wrong.

[dellagd]

The difference between FRC and FTC is the size of the robots, 20*30 is almost FTC robot

Right. It just wouldnt feel the same to me. One of the coolest parts of FRC is the robots are pretty life size.

[apples000]

I think that the part about dinner missed may have to do with the list of names. After the list of names in the blog post, it says "I think they have a larger purpose."

[dellagd]

All people are there for the FRC staff. I know this for a FACT.

Would you care to elaborate then? :P

[om23]

Since it says game hint #3, and this is the second game hint. So there has to be something special with the 3. In the first hint there were 3 different colored pins holding up the picture and the screen shot from the music video comes from 33 seconds into the video,and the video is 3 minutes and 33 seconds long. 3 has a lot to do with the 2013 game.

[JosephC]

The playing field will be a Rectangle with 3 sizes; length, width, and depth.

So it's obviously a water game.

[CalTran]

I just noticed the commas in the number strings.

[dellagd]

I high ranking source told us so; They don't wish to have their identity disclosed.

I always suspected the lower numbered teams to have a mole in the staff...

[karomata]

So we have "Seal", and then tightening your belt. Which has turned into a discussion about belt drives, which turned into a discussion about lunacy wheels.

It might just be me, but I think this thread took a wrong turn somewhere.

I agree

[billbo911]

So we have "Seal", and then tightening your belt. Which has turned into a discussion about belt drives, which turned into a discussion about lunacy wheels.

It might just be me, but I think this thread took a wrong turn somewhere.

I agree

Please, feel free to get us back on track then. What are your thoughts about these hints?

[Johnbot]

Please, feel free to get us back on track then. What are your thoughts about these hints?

Three...

Three minute matches?

Or maybe, just maybe, three alliance game?

[MelodyPond]

Three...

Three minute matches?

Or maybe, just maybe, three alliance game?
Three minute matches could be a change! Also, those 3 different colored push-pins don't necessarily mean a three alliance game, because the third color was Yellow, and in the past when challenges have been 3 alliances, the color was white. But in Logomotion, the yellow tubes were used for autonomous. So maybe there will be a longer autonomous mode, and that's why matches will be 3 minutes. Also, if matches are 3 minutes, what are we going to do about battery life? At the end of 2:15 matches, those batteries were already shot!

[karomata]

Please, feel free to get us back on track then. What are your thoughts about these hints?

I strongly believe we were on the right track with the poem riddle-ish thing. That was defiantly getting us somewhere. We are also forgetting that we have already had 2 hints, which we are not sure of what they were. I think one was the Rick Astley picture, and I also believe that it means that matches will be 3 minutes long. I have no idea what the other one would be though.

We also have to approach this sanely, the GDC is not gonna give us a hint that could potentially tell us that its and arm game, or that the field has a bump, or that the end game requires us to lift our allied robots. The hints usually give us small details or are so complicated that we will never figure it out. They usually tell us things that do not effect the game itself, but more subtle things. Things like matches are 3 minutes long, and the name has something to do with this riddle. Its not impossible that the GDC would give us a powerful hint, I just don't see it being too likely.

Thoughts?

[ekovacs]

Triangles have 3 sides...

Tetras?

I will second this, I would also like to have to work with tetras.

[Clinton Bolinger]

I strongly believe we were on the right track with the poem riddle-ish thing. That was defiantly getting us somewhere. We are also forgetting that we have already had 2 hints, which we are not sure of what they were. I think one was the Rick Astley picture, and I also believe that it means that matches will be 3 minutes long. I have no idea what the other one would be though.

We also have to approach this sanely, the GDC is not gonna give us a hint that could potentially tell us that its and arm game, or that the field has a bump, or that the end game requires us to lift our allied robots. The hints usually give us small details or are so complicated that we will never figure it out. They usually tell us things that do not effect the game itself, but more subtle things. Things like matches are 3 minutes long, and the name has something to do with this riddle. Its not impossible that the GDC would give us a powerful hint, I just don't see it being too likely.

Thoughts?

2010, People guessed that the game piece was going to be a Soccer Ball.

Read: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79453

Page 3 first reference of a soccer ball.

-Clinton-

[runneals]

Here's a map (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=200673753845898270814.0004d163367a69da25b8 5&msa=0&ll=31.353637,33.398438&spn=121.901522,275.273438) of the first 3 coordinates... haven't found the 4th...

[G Fawkes]

My son confirms the clue is;
A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

He says each pair of numbers represent a letter of a cryptogram. The only unusual thing is 97 represents both a G and a T.

[Redo91]

If the G and T have the same number value, could it be that instead of "great", the word is "treat"?

[Littleboy]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINTER TREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

The game piece will be sinter.

[om23]

This might be a wild tangent, but I'm guessing the 2013 game has something to do with rails (railways/railroads).
Why? Well "88274153" leads you to this: http://books.google.com/books?id=M7kvAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA473&lpg=PA473&dq=31+88274153&source=bl&ots=cYRFuAaLUN&sig=OokN9r97-UKxo2Hp1BZ2AgVj3pM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=98rUUPCaGqi30QGlu4DACA&ved=0CGkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=31%2088274153&f=false

The table's title says Australian Railways.
Another set of numbers "088274153" leads you to Adelaide, Australia. The Wikipedia page states they have a really good rail system.

Numerous number sets lead you to phone numbers, Indian phone numbers. There were some from Tamil Nadu (southern state) and another from Gujarat (western state). I couldn't really explain this other than India has a well connected railway system.

Some of the number sets ("332341415326") were FedEx tracking numbers that are no longer valid. Maybe they were moved by rail?

Its a random guess, the numbers could mean anything.

[Bryce Paputa]

look at the url, http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint


hmm...

[Gregor]

look at the url, http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-kit-of-arts-info-and-an-actual-game-hint


hmm...

Incorrect link, but I think I can guess what you are trying to link to.

What are you implying?

[Bryce Paputa]

it says kit of arts, not kit of parts.

[G Fawkes]

If the G and T have the same number value, could it be that instead of "great", the word is "treat"?

Good Point - Singer Treat is a possibility

Sinter seems less likely given that the powder metallurgy term is not widely known.

[Gregor]

it says kit of arts, not kit of parts.

I see.

Using art you can draw water.

Water game?

[karomata]

it says kit of arts, not kit of parts.

Probably just a typo or something, lets not make mountains out of mole hills, before we get off track again.

[Gregor]

My mentor has figured it out

"Seal" will "miss dinner (of fish)" because it's "holding (this) weight."

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/28737_10200256594241648_1839312992_n.jpg

[pfreivald]

Larger (or more) alliances, smaller robots, and longer games would, IMO, go well together.

...but I hope they don't make the robots much smaller. The spectacle of FIRST is tied to its scale.

[Chris_Elston]

GPS Coordinates of some sort?

Link to GPS (https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=31.262383835388,+33.2341415326&daddr=%2B31%C2%B0+29'+20.57%22,+%2B62%C2%B0+15'+45 .59%22&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sll=31.489047,62.262664&sspn=1.555129,3.175049&gl=us&mra=ls&t=m&z=5)

[auk]

"A ROSE, KISSED/SINGER GREAT" is Seal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yivLt9cTaio). What about "A DINNER, MISSED/HOLDING WEIGHT"?

[Kevin Selavko]

What if the main robot is 30 by 28 with a mini-bot attached to the front?

[pfreivald]

What if the main robot is 30 by 28 with a mini-bot attached to the front?

What if the main bot is the minibot, and it has to launch a full-sized FRC bot up the pole?

[gyroscopeRaptor]

The third and fourth lines could be referring to a First Frenzy-style cap. "Seal" would then refer to blocking it off.

[Whippet]

What if the main bot is the minibot, and it has to launch a full-sized FRC bot up the pole?

... And the main robot needs to be made from tetrix parts!

[Travis Hoffman]

... And the main robot needs to be made from tetrix parts!

The only FRC-legal motors this year will be Tetrix motors.

[Kevin Thorp]

The difference between FRC and FTC is the size of the robots, 20*30 is almost FTC robot

FTC 'bots must fit within an 18" cube at game start, so their volume can be no greater than 5,832 cubic inches.

For FRC, if the "long" dimension is now 30" and you keep the same aspect ratios, the short dimension becomes 22" and the height becomes 47". That's 31,020 cubic inches, over 5 times the volume of an FTC bot.

[Tom Line]

Holding weight may refer to the sport of holding weights with arms extended horizontally. There's even a guiness record for it.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-7000/longest-duration-holding-weight-outstretched-arms/

[ttldomination]

My mentor has figured it out

"Seal" will "miss dinner (of fish)" because it's "holding (this) weight."

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/28737_10200256594241648_1839312992_n.jpg

Now, this is interesting. A bit of a stretch, but definitely a stretch in the "FRC Direction."

But we're thinking of the wrong definition of seal? Seal has many definitions, and many other people associated with it.

- Sunny G.

[dellagd]

FTC 'bots must fit within an 18" cube at game start, so their volume can be no greater than 5,832 cubic inches.

For FRC, if the "long" dimension is now 30" and you keep the same aspect ratios, the short dimension becomes 22" and the height becomes 47". That's 31,020 cubic inches, over 5 times the volume of an FTC bot.

Please, no... The most obvious defference between FTC and FRC is the robot size. If you needed to use a smaller robot, then you should go to FTC...

[maddoctor90]

The only FRC-legal motors this year will be Tetrix motors.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

[Twest3259]

Okay so It's Game hint number three. "The power of three" is an episode of doctor who and Chibnall's(writer of the episode) brief from showrunner Steven Moffat was to "live with the Doctor — The Man Who Came to Dinner, Doctor Who style. The man who came to dinner is a three act comedy in which a man falls and injures his hip on the way to dinner set in the weeks leading to christmas. He slips on ice which reminds me of lunacy.

I take from this that the game pieces will be cubic, and the game will take inspiration from Space.

[jtechau]

Please, no... The most obvious defference between FTC and FRC is the robot size. If you needed to use a smaller robot, then you should go to FTC...

Size may be the most obvious difference between FRC and FTC robots, but it's certainly not the most important difference.

I, for one, would be happy to see a modest change to the size/weight limits this year - even if it's just for this one year. There's a rather fixed mindset in FRC when it comes to size and weight, and I'd love to see the GDC shake that up a bit. Besides the mindset changes this would force on veteran robot designers, also think about the possible changes to the game itself that would be possible with modestly smaller robots.

Hmm, lighter robots would float more easily - water game? ;)

[wilhitern1]

they say this: Separate Item-4" x 1" x 1"

I think that is too small for bumper fabric, unless it is a small sample

Anyone got a clue how long that remote is in the andymark list...

Neal

[Radical Pi]

Anyone got a clue how long that remote is in the andymark list...

Neal

Approx Size: 7.6" x 2.03" x 1.35" (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-004.htm)

[Gary.C]

I strongly believe we were on the right track with the poem riddle-ish thing. That was defiantly getting us somewhere. We are also forgetting that we have already had 2 hints, which we are not sure of what they were. I think one was the Rick Astley picture, and I also believe that it means that matches will be 3 minutes long. I have no idea what the other one would be though.

We also have to approach this sanely, the GDC is not gonna give us a hint that could potentially tell us that its and arm game, or that the field has a bump, or that the end game requires us to lift our allied robots. The hints usually give us small details or are so complicated that we will never figure it out. They usually tell us things that do not effect the game itself, but more subtle things. Things like matches are 3 minutes long, and the name has something to do with this riddle. Its not impossible that the GDC would give us a powerful hint, I just don't see it being too likely.

Thoughts?

Keep hustling cuz

[CrazyHorse]

Smaller FRC bots......
This is what the Mayans were referring to....
My world is ending....

[Christopher149]

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT


When I first read "A DINNER, MISSED" my first thought was that a longer competition day to longer matches means that everyone misses dinner.

[Twest3259]

The power of three = cubes

The game pieces this year will be cubes.

[CrazyHorse]

When I first read "A DINNER, MISSED" my first thought was that a longer competition day to longer matches means that everyone misses dinner.

Everyone missing dinner because of robots... Oh, the memories of build season. :)

On a more "related" note:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/09dadf4b4fb912f7e3535c6ddcad8981/tumblr_mfe65wfJXt1rv11vmo1_500.png

"#nevergunnagiveyouup"
"#nevergunnaletyoudown"
Coincidence?

[JohnChristensen]

The separate item, size 4" x 1" x 1", is most likely the Allen-Bradley Signal Light. Last year, the kickoffs were sent those lights separately from everyone's KoP. The size matches the box well if I remember correctly.

[IndySam]

AndyMark didn't invest in molding and manufacturing these wheels (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2256.htm) just because they thought they could sell a few.

I can almost guarantee these are the KOP wheels which would lend credence to the smaller bot ideas. Also the FIRST Choice hold back suggests that FIRST is changing things up a bit and want teams to be able to get extra chassis parts and wheels.

BTW I have worked at AndyMark in the past but my current job makes that impossible and I have zero inside information on this.

[|DELTA|]

Hmmm. I still think stacking, but with a variable weight to size ratio...

[coalhot]

AndyMark didn't invest in molding and manufacturing these wheels (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2256.htm) just because they thought they could sell a few.

I can almost guarantee these are the KOP wheels which would lend credence to the smaller bot ideas. Also the FIRST Choice hold back suggests that FIRST is changing things up a bit and want teams to be able to get extra chassis parts and wheels.

BTW I have worked at AndyMark in the past but my current job makes that impossible and I have zero inside information on this.

If that's the case, I'm wondering if the release of the wheel was one of the three "hints". Also, the picture of that wheel when it was released was the wheel on a sand dune, wonder if that has anything to do with anything as well...

EDIT: Frank's post of the kit frame being 6 wheel lends to this, since the wheels are smaller. I'm wondering what sort of overhaul the kitbot got. It could be nothing, but it really could be interesting. I think the biggest thing is the 30" andymark box. It's either a typo or a rule change...

[CrazyHorse]

AndyMark didn't invest in molding and manufacturing these wheels (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2256.htm) just because they thought they could sell a few.

I can almost guarantee these are the KOP wheels which would lend credence to the smaller bot ideas. Also the FIRST Choice hold back suggests that FIRST is changing things up a bit and want teams to be able to get extra chassis parts and wheels.

BTW I have worked at AndyMark in the past but my current job makes that impossible and I have zero inside information on this.

Does anyone else think that this would support the statement, "you will receive an AndyMark C-Base chassis system similar to the last few years. It will again be a six wheel drive robot, with similar wheels to 2012" Since the wheels look quite a bit like the wheels from last year?

[Dad1279]

AndyMark didn't invest in molding and manufacturing these wheels (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2256.htm) just because they thought they could sell a few.......

Andymark released Plaction wheels in 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68566&highlight=plaction just before Lunacy game in 2009

Hundreds of teams use 4" wheels on 38x28" robots, and the 4" high traction wheels are just a smaller version of the 6" high traction wheels released last year.

[ChuckDickerson]

As a robot inspector, I am looking at the clue slightly differently. What if the clue was telling us more about the robot and less about the game? Every year lots of teams have “issues” with bumpers and understanding that what they call their robot’s “frame” and what FIRST calls the “FRAME PERIMETER” is not necessarily the same thing. Sometime back, I think in one of Bill’s blogs, teams were told that FIRST will be taking a hard look at the bumper rules this year to try to alleviate some of the confusion and frustration observed by both teams and inspectors. Maybe that was clue #1? Next we have also been told that the KitBot chassis will be a different this year. Couple that with the published box dimensions that (if you take as fact and not a typo) could lead one to conclude the KitBot chassis may be smaller this year. Let’s call that clue #2. Then the established clue #3 seems to refer to the singer Seal, missing something (i.e. “sliming down”), yet maintaining weight. This leads me to think that this year the bumpers must completely “seal” the robot (no gaps, no minimum bumper lengths, etc.). Also, I speculate that the robot must fit within the sizing box WITH bumpers attached. The sizing box may or may not be changed to accommodate a new robot dimension but the sizing box will include some sort of built in gauge or measurement system to check for bumper zone violations. The robot weight will remain at approximately 140 lbs (120 lbs + bumpers). I wouldn’t be surprised if the robots will still be sized 28”x38” but that will include the bumpers and the weight limit will be increased to 140 lbs but still won’t include the weight of the battery.

[sebflippers]

EDIT: Frank's post of the kit frame being 6 wheel lends to this, since the wheels are smaller. I'm wondering what sort of overhaul the kitbot got. It could be nothing, but it really could be interesting. I think the biggest thing is the 30" andymark box. It's either a typo or a rule change...

From FRC blog comment section:

KOP drive base
Submitted by Ian on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 17:22.

On the KOP dimensions page, it says that the AndyMark Drive Base Kit is only 30" long. Is this a typo?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Typo?
Submitted by Frank Merrick on Fri, 12/21/2012 - 17:24.

There are no typos I'm aware of on the KoP dimensions page.

[coalhot]

Wow, I didn't see that. This is a rule change then?

[bitty]

Mini bot's are coming back :D

[coalhot]

Mini bot's are coming back :D

But but but but but but...

[Richard Wallace]

Every circle is similar (http://www.math.com/school/subject1/lessons/S1U2L4GL.html) to every other circle.

Rectangles with the same ratio of side lengths (38/28, 19/14, 28.5/21, etc.) are also similar.

Mathematically, there is no contradiction in Frank Merrick's statements. :)

[coalhot]

Every circle is similar (http://www.math.com/school/subject1/lessons/S1U2L4GL.html) to every other circle.

Rectangles with the same ratio of side lengths (38/28, 19/14, 28.5/21, etc.) are also similar.

Mathematically, there is no contradiction in Frank Merrick's statements. :)

Sorry if I misread something, but all that Frank said is that there was no mistake made on the page. We assumed that the KOP frame dimensions may have been a mistake, since it was different from last year, and 8 isn't too far from 0 on the keyboard. That being said, it seems as if it's a rule change, unless the longer parts of the frame are hidden somewhere else. You can never rule out the sneaky GDC. ;)

[jee7s]

Has anyone else noticed that the new long AndyMark NanoTube rail is only 31" long? and the short is 20" long?

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-0689.htm
http://www.andymark.com/NanoTube-p/am-0809.htm

Oh...and that's a 6 wheel drive in the "long" configuration and a 4 wheel drive in the "wide" configuration. I know this doesn't fit the kitbot box dimensions, but the kit bot design could be based off of these designs.

I can't say I've been all that attentive to AndyMark parts releases, but the documentation is dated June 2012. Please correct me if this part series has been out for longer than that.

If I'm not mistaken and these indeed were released in June 2012, then I guess we should have seen a smaller chassis coming a long time ago.

[CrazyHorse]

Sorry if I misread something, but all that Frank said is that there was no mistake made on the page. We assumed that the KOP frame dimensions may have been a mistake, since it was different from last year, and 8 isn't too far from 0 on the keyboard. That being said, it seems as if it's a rule change, unless the longer parts of the frame are hidden somewhere else. You can never rule out the sneaky GDC. ;)

I think he was replying to my message about what Frank said. Haha :)

[JJackson]

Keeping with the idea of three, could we see three differently shaped game pieces? Maybe tetras, track balls and rubber-maid containers.

[jee7s]

Replying to my own post...I forgot to account for the 8" of wheels in those designs, so they are indeed 28"x38"

But, I suppose that begs the question that others have alluded to: What about the designs that are already out there for 28"x38". Sure, teams could be required to redesign, but there is an economy to FRC. What about the suppliers that have based designs on (and hence produced parts for) that footprint? Are they all just out of luck if the dimensions are changing?

Or, prehaps the dimensions aren't changing, but the kit bot is different. A 30" long dimension plus 8" of wheels is closer to the 38" we are used to. It just means that the kit bot frame doesn't "wrap" the wheels as it has in the past.

...As always with the hints, we are all merely speculating.

[CalTran]

Or, prehaps the dimensions aren't changing, but the kit bot is different. A 30" long dimension plus 8" of wheels is closer to the 38" we are used to. It just means that the kit bot frame doesn't "wrap" the wheels as it has in the past.

...what?

[jee7s]

I was merely suggesting that others may be reading too much into the dimension of the "kit bot" (AndyMark Drive Base Kit) that comes with the kit of parts. Just because the longest dimension part in that chassis is 30" does not mean that the maximum length of the robot is 30" or anything less than 38". Using that same c-channel frame, one can construct a robot with a 38" outer dimension using frame parts that are 30" long.

[coalhot]

Replying to my own post...I forgot to account for the 8" of wheels in those designs, so they are indeed 28"x38"

But, I suppose that begs the question that others have alluded to: What about the designs that are already out there for 28"x38". Sure, teams could be required to redesign, but there is an economy to FRC. What about the suppliers that have based designs on (and hence produced parts for) that footprint? Are they all just out of luck if the dimension are changing?

Or, prehaps the dimensions aren't changing, but the kit bot is different. A 30" long dimension plus 8" of wheels is closer to the 38" we are used to. It just means that the kit bot frame doesn't "wrap" the wheels as it has in the past.

...As always with the hints, we are all merely speculating.

This is all speculation. The only solid hints are the KOP sizings.

This is interesting though, if you think about it. None of the boxes seem to include the game piece, and from my experience, the veteran KOP is about half to 3/4 full. which means the game piece is either small, or inflatable (or not included with the kit).

That being said, we've had balls in the game for 4 out of the last 5 years. I have a feeling that this game piece is not going to be a traditional round ball. It may be some other ball though. Also, with all the "3" hinting, something is going to be radically different. It's about time too...

[coalhot]

I was merely suggesting that others may be reading too much into the dimension of the "kit bot" (AndyMark Drive Base Kit) that comes with the kit of parts. Just because the longest dimension part in that chassis is 30" does not mean that the maximum length of the robot is 30" or anything less than 38". Using that same c-channel frame, one can construct a robot with a 38" outer dimension using frame parts that are 30" long.

While that may be true, there are downsides of using multiple pieces of c-channel to span a distance. Two are rigidity and mounting space. If i'm not mistaken, AndyMark used to ship 4 pieces of 38" C-channel, and let teams cut it down. Why wouldn't they do the same if there wasn't some sort of change?

EDIT: AndyMark sells C-Channel in 35" lengths. That makes me think that they had to fabricate a part especially for this KOP, a special part.

[Ekcrbe]

Two problems I see with the protruding-wheel theory are:


I don't think the kitbot will have 8" wheels, meaning the max reasonable long dimension is ~35" (30" + ~2.5" each way from a 6" wheel)
Losing or moving the front and rear bars on the kitbot doesn't seem like an intelligent move to make, given that the kitbot is intended to be a plain base to work off of, and not specialized to a specific design.

[ehochstein]

Another question about the KoP... We've heard a lot about the Kinect being in the game this year... I do not see a mention of it being in the rookie KoP though. Can anyone confirm/deny?

[jee7s]

Hey, I may be wrong here. I agree that there are complications with protruding wheels. But, AndyMark does in fact make a general chassis (albeit pricier and more complicated than the "kit bot") using their NanoTube products that have protruding wheels. And those can be built off of to make a specialized chassis.

To me, it just seemed like there was no dissent to the idea that the allowed dimensions of the robot were changing. I wanted to present an argument that given all of the evidence we have, the assumptions being made here may not in fact bear out. ...Or they may bear out and we may be playing with smaller robots. We'll see on January 5.

[coalhot]

Hey, I may be wrong here. I agree that there are complications with protruding wheels. But, AndyMark does in fact make a general chassis (albeit pricier and more complicated than the "kit bot") using their NanoTube products that have protruding wheels. And those can be built off of to make a specialized chassis.

To me, it just seemed like there was no dissent to the idea that the allowed dimensions of the robot were changing. I wanted to present an argument that given all of the evidence we have, the assumptions being made here may not in fact bear out. ...Or they may bear out and we may be playing with smaller robots. We'll see on January 5.

I think AndyMark breaking from the traditional KOP Kitbot is enough change to warrant us talking of it as a hit. I may be completely mistaken though...

[Brandon_L]

...what?

Example ('scuse the paint):
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qkla2w.png

I wouldn't trust that on my robot, bent wheels/axles due to impact don't seem like fun.

[coalhot]

Example ('scuse the paint):
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qkla2w.png

I wouldn't trust that on my robot, bent wheels/axles due to impact don't seem like fun.

Quick question, how does the bumper cover the extended wheel, and how do you prevent someone from ramming whatever bumper you have over those wheels into the wheels? seems like more of an issue than anything...

Edit: did't see the last line. But still, the question stands.

[CalTran]

That's what I thought. I don't think the KoP bot is going to that. The idea of the KitBot is something that rookies can easily compete with and I'd hate to imagine what would happen to that design the minute it gets t-boned.

Back to the game hint:
Any other revelations about what the string of numbers means?

[Kevin Selavko]

Another question about the KoP... We've heard a lot about the Kinect being in the game this year... I do not see a mention of it being in the rookie KoP though. Can anyone confirm/deny?

Perhaps we will all get a new one in case any were broken/lost.

[pfreivald]

I wouldn't trust that on my robot, bent wheels/axles due to impact don't seem like fun.

You whipper-snappers don't remember the before-bumper days, when we all had steel frames and prayed they'd hold up...

[karomata]

I get the strange feeling that we have gone off topic a bit much, I feel like we were on the right track with the poem riddle thing, but now were just pulling things out of the blue.

[coalhot]

31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397

and

A ROSE, KISSED
SINGER GREAT
A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT

Let's go people! Figure it out!

[hunterteam3476]

We got 19 staff members from here (http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/nlsep12/frc-highlights)

The blog post about the dinner can be found here (http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-the-frc-staff)

did you notice one of the staff members are named ROSE :ahh:

[coalhot]

did you notice one of the staff members are named ROSE :ahh:

I should preface this by saying that this may be a total red herring.

The line "A ROSE KISSED" may have something to do with one of the FRC staff that Frank posted in the list, Rose Kue (LinkedIN (http://www.linkedin.com/in/rosekue)).

This may explain all the musical-related hits we've been getting...:eek:

EDIT: She's a music major.

I believe I called that, sir. :D

[Char22]

A Rose, Kissed could refer to the song "Kiss from a Rose" by Seal, who is a well known singer in australia. He is also a Judge/coach on the voice australia. In the first line of this song he mentions a tower alone in the sea, which could poke at the idea of a game played on water. The HOLDING WEIGHT aspect may say that the alliances would work together to transport things to and from the tower to gain points within the allotted time.
Im still working on what A DINNER, MISSED might mean...

[porterma64]

Did anyone consider factoring the numbers?

[BobbyVanNess]

31 88274153, 622341415326

412383975388 9788533197

31 262383835388, 332341415326

93276426238397 995323979397
Could that 31 be the 31" of the new long dimension? A 31" inch c channel on andymark was mentioned. Just a thought

[ehochstein]

I appears that either everyone or no one will be reciving a Kinect this year. There is no variation between Rookie and Veteran kits for the Kinect. Is it resonable to assume that both rookies and veterans alike will be recieving an additional Kinect?

Source: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/2013-rookie-veteran-variation

[Char22]

Thats what I thought of too XD