Discs under the pyramid

[Radical Pi]

One of our team's members was talking about hiding discs under your pyramid, which would effectively stop the opposing alliance from getting at them. The only potential issue in the rules I can come up with is the blue box on G24:

C. “trapping” (pressing one or more DISCS against a FIELD element in an attempt to shield them).

That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, since it wouldn't be held against the element. Anyone have a different opinion?

[Jay O'Donnell]

Not sure about the rule, but it wouldn't necessarily be a fullproof strategy, assuming theres a robot on the opposing alliance under 30 inches.

[Sean M]

Seems entirely legal, in my opinion -- though I don't know why you'd go that far and not just score them, even if just dumping in the bottom goal. That being said, a short opponent robot could still try to avoid the pyramid and your robots and just push through and clear them out again.

[MetalJacket]

As long as your robot is not physically in contact with the discs you should be fine so long as you are only pushing 4 or less disks at a time under the goal. There are 3 problems I can see with this is that 1. the oposing alliance could just chose not to introduce any game pieces until one of their robots is ready for them thus preventing you from hoarding them (since hoarding yours would be pointless), 2. Why not just take them and score them yourself if you have them, the only alliance-specific game pieces are the colored ones for the pyramid goals, and 3. If you're not careful and build up a pile of more than four touching one another, it may be ruled that you are controlling mor than four if you push more under there.
-just my opinion of the rules/strategy

[Nuttyman54]

There are over 100 discs available to the teams. I don't think hoarding will be a particularly effective use of your time, especially since 45 of those discs are available to your opponents from their human player.

[Grim Tuesday]

<G24>:

ROBOTS may not actively control more than four (4) DISCS at any one time.

Violation: FOUL per extra DISC


Moving or positioning a DISC to gain advantage is considered “active control.”

Examples of “active control” include

A. “carrying” (holding DISCS in or on the ROBOT),

B. “herding” (intentionally pushing or impelling DISCS to a desired location or direction), and

C. “trapping” (pressing one or more DISCS against a FIELD element in an attempt to shield them).

Examples of DISC interaction that are not “active control” are

D. “bulldozing” (inadvertently coming in contact with DISCS that happen to be in the path of the ROBOT as it moves about the FIELD) and

E. “deflecting” (being hit by a propelled DISC that bounces or rolls off the ROBOT).

Emphasis mine.

[Gregor]

<G24>:



Emphasis mine.

Then do 4 at a time

[Grim Tuesday]

I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable (ie inaccessible by opponents) location.

[EricH]

I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable location.
If you have left contact with them, I fail to see how you are still controlling them. You are no longer herding them; you are leaving them in a location where you want them. You then go to get 4 more, leaving them undefended (other than the pyramid or loading zone and traffic around them, if that is where you leave them).

I shoot (impel--falls under herding) 4 discs into my top goal. By your interpretation, I can no longer pick up any discs, having 4 discs herded to where I want them. Under my interpretation, I can grab 4 more and impel them into my top goal... and 4 more... and 4 more, impel 1, grab 1, impel 3, climb my pyramid, impel the last 1.

[z_beeblebrox]

I don't think putting the discs under the pyramid 4 at a time would be legal, but I don't understand why anyone would want to put them there, especially since the discs can be "hoarded" in a goal where your opponent can't get them and you get points for them.

[Anupam Goli]

I'm thinking that G24 applies mainly to using some sort of corral to just block frisbees (more than 4) and take them to a place. The act of herding is what is being penalized, not the location you put the frisbees in, the act of herding being defined as intentionally pushing or impelling DISCS to the desired location.

But honestly, the other alliance has 45 frisbees in their feeder stations, and something like 6 start on the field at the start of the match? Unless everyone is a bad shot (and that may be something at regionals we may see often), then it's not worth it, and even then, when the other alliance notices these shenanigans, they'll just feed the robot with the feeder.

[bduddy]

I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable (ie inaccessible by opponents) location.That makes no sense at all - it would imply that once you have pushed 4 disks anywhere that could be "desirable", you would not be allowed to control any more disks for the rest of the game. I think the key phrase is "active control" - they count towards the limit while and only while you are actively controlling them, which may include herding or trapping but does not include just leaving them there.

[bluecraney]

with the 102 disks it would be a waist of time for you would need to gain acess to all 51 disks that were originally possessed by the opposing team in 2 min that would be you taking over 2 disks per sec and not letting them score even during the 15 sec auto period

[rich2202]

While it may be easy to bulldoze 4 DISCs at a time under your pyramid, I think you are better off figure out a way to pick up the DISCs and dumping them into the low goal. Once they are in the goal, they are out of play, and you get a point too.

Plus, when you are buldozing, you can't bulldoze into a pile you have already created under the pyramid, because then you would be controlling more than 4 DISCs.