Does 54" include bumpers?

[4AngryNutjobs]

Our team was wondering about the width of the robot and we were wondering if the bumpers would be included when they put us in the 54" cylinder. Its rule G23 in the FRC Manual.

[bluecraney]

I was wondering this my self but it seems the bumpers don't count as "part of the robot" so it don't have to be in area and weight requirements if i am wroung please correct me

[Basel A]

R5: For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations, the items listed below are not included in the weight assessment:

A. the ROBOT battery and its associated half of the Anderson cable quick connect/disconnect pair (including no more than 12 in. of cable per leg, the associated cable lugs, connecting bolts, and insulation) and

B. BUMPERS (including BUMPER covers, if appropriate).

Emphasis mine. 54" diameter cylinder isn't exactly volume, but I would interpret the rule as saying that bumpers don't count toward the 54". This is a question for the Q&A, though.

[aechmtwash11]

Since this rule is in the Game manual and not the Robot manual, I would interpret it as including the bumpers. Why, because game rules are primary enforced by the referees who don't see the robots without bumpers. I have seen the inspection people make sure your robot can't extend mechanisms outside this dimension, but once again this rule is meant for game play not inspections.

But once again this is just my interpretation.

[plnyyanks]

Well, consider R3:
PLAYING CONFIGURATION horizontal dimensions may never exceed a 54 in. diameter vertical cylinder (see G23)
And the definition of PLAYING CONFIGURATION:
PLAYING CONFIGURATION: The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing the game (i.e. after the MATCH has started, and the ROBOT has deployed mechanisms, moved away from the starting location, and/or interacted with the field, GAME PIECES, or other ROBOTS). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the course of a single MATCH.

These lead me to believe that bumpers are included in the 54" (even though G23 doesn't mention bumpers anywhere). And since this specifies the robot's condition during a match, when bumpers are mandatory, I'd guess they're included. Either way, this is a great question for the Q&A

[Teched3]

Our team was wondering about the width of the robot and we were wondering if the bumpers would be included when they put us in the 54" cylinder. Its rule G23 in the FRC Manual.

Definitely a question for the GDC. There is ambiguity in R05 where one paragraph refers to weight and volume, and the next only weight with reference to bumper excusion.
:) :)

[ttldomination]

Emphasis mine. 54" diameter cylinder isn't exactly volume, but I would interpret the rule as saying that bumpers don't count toward the 54". This is a question for the Q&A, though.

I mean, this seems clear enough...

Not sure why others are trying to lawyer the rules further, but I suppose the GDC will settle all.

- Sunny G.

[Bill_B]

Two possibilities:
1. bumpers part of the 54" limit.
2. not

difference between case 1 and 2 is about 3" (or less) of extra extension outside frame perimeter for some mechanism. Glad and scared to see this degree of precision design during week 0. :D

I think you should make your machine work and then worry about the 54". BTW are you going to make a hoop for testing this?

[Joe Johnson]

Has this been definitively answered one way or the other?

I could really use 3" right now...

Joe J

[Chinmay]

Unfortunately you wont get the 3 inches. It has been answered, and the bumpers count towards the limit.

[Littleboy]

It is answered in Q&A 44. Yes, they do count.
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/44/does-the-54-diameter-cylinder-include-the-bumpers-or-not-r05-ambiguous

[Joe Johnson]

Clear answer. I can wish for another one but I will take clarity anyday.

Thanks.

Joe J.