Retro-reflective tape?

[Ido_Wolf]

Are the vision targets supposed to be included in the kit for 2013?

[engunneer]

you can get it from andymark - see this thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1208023

[nathan_hui]

Are the vision targets supposed to be included in the kit for 2013?
No, but the tape from Andymark will suffice at first. You will want to get the actual tape in the end from 3M - the reflection characteristics may not match the AndyMark supplied tape.

[JohnBoucher]

No, but the tape from Andymark will suffice at first. You will want to get the actual tape in the end from 3M - the reflection characteristics may not match the AndyMark supplied tape.

The AndyMark tape is not the same?
AndyMark (http://www.andymark.com/FIRST-Choice-p/fc13-144.htm)

[nathan_hui]

The tape specc'ed in the Game Manual is 3M 8830 Silver Marking Film. AndyMark has Reflexite GP020. Not exactly the same, so you could use it at first (same genre of material), but I'd imagine you'd want to test that your system against the stuff that is used in competition.

[Joe Ross]

The tape specc'ed in the Game Manual is 3M 8830 Silver Marking Film. AndyMark has Reflexite GP020. Not exactly the same, so you could use it at first (same genre of material), but I'd imagine you'd want to test that your system against the stuff that is used in competition.

AndyMark sells the Reflixite. AndyMark through First Choice also has the 3M tape.

[nathan_hui]

You are right. I stand corrected.

[Joe Ross]

The 27 feet on First Choice looks to be enough for a high goal and a middle goal. Has anyone found another distributor?

[WizenedEE]

The 27 feet on First Choice looks to be enough for a high goal and a middle goal. Has anyone found another distributor?

I'm going to echo this question. Our team quickly used up all of our FIRST choice credits before everything was gone and then realized we needed the tape. We are now trying to get the tape off of a local team, but it would be nicer if we could buy it from somewhere. The 3M site is impossible to navigate, but has anyone found a source?

[adciv]

http://www.ironhorsesafety.com/ has it. Be warned, it's $590/roll and I don't know if they sell it in less than that.

[Nate Laverdure]

Maybe http://www.metlon.com/ordering-info/8830.htm

[rm -rf /]

I'm going to echo this question. Our team quickly used up all of our FIRST choice credits before everything was gone and then realized we needed the tape. We are now trying to get the tape off of a local team, but it would be nicer if we could buy it from somewhere. The 3M site is impossible to navigate, but has anyone found a source?

It's not clear to me what 3M/FIRST were thinking when they spec'd this. They might as well be using unicorn tail or griffin flight feathers - they'd be easier to find.

It would have been good if 3M could have made this available through their web store, or seeded some distributors with the product.

I don't really understand why it's only available for credits and not cash at Andy Mark.

[MechEng83]

It's not clear to me what 3M/FIRST were thinking when they spec'd this. They might as well be using unicorn tail or griffin flight feathers - they'd be easier to find.

It would have been good if 3M could have made this available through their web store, or seeded some distributors with the product.

I don't really understand why it's only available for credits and not cash at Andy Mark.

QFT

I'm trying to find this too and having as good of luck as anyone else.

[CalTran]

I don't really understand why it's only available for credits and not cash at Andy Mark.

IIRC, most of the AM FIRST Choice stuff is donated.

[Joe Ross]

I sent an email to AndyMark saying we'd buy 50 feet, if they carried it. Maybe if enough people offer to buy some, AndyMark will buy a case.

[rm -rf /]

IIRC, most of the AM FIRST Choice stuff is donated.

Fair enough, but that it's not available elsewhere is a problem and has the potential to tarnish the image of FIRST.

Lots of teams are calling companies that, in all likelhood they will never do business with again, demanding immediate and urgent attention as they try to buy product(s) that are non-stock, have a 14 day lead and are generally unavailable.

I'm not sure that FRC should be inflicting this on 3M distributors.

[ChuckDickerson]

I sent an email to AndyMark saying we'd buy 50 feet, if they carried it. Maybe if enough people offer to buy some, AndyMark will buy a case.

I emailed Andy the same thing today.

We also called 3M today and found our distributor. We called the distributor and asked about 4". They said 4" is an "uncommon" non-stock item but they could order it. Minimum order qty = 1 case of 3 rolls, 100m per roll, >$500 per roll, >$1500 for the case of 3 rolls. :eek: We asked if they had any 2" in stock that we could "double up". Nope. We asked if there was any other way to get a small (~10 yard) piece of 4" wide. They said they had some 8" wide in stock and could cut it down the middle for us. We asked how much. $250 :eek: We asked what other size they had in stock remotely close to 4". They said they had some 3 1/4". We asked how much for a 10 yard long piece of the 3 1/4" would be. ~$75 + shipping. Supposedly it's on its way. Hopefully 3 1/4" wide will be "close enough" for our vision tracking programming team to handle.

Here's where we ordered the 3 1/4": http://www.safetyeffects.com/

[rm -rf /]

The kind folks out at Safety Effects (http://www.safetyeffects.com/t-contact.aspx) have 8" 8830 which they, because they realize there are many teams looking for it and it's hard to find, are willing to split (to 4") and sell in 10 yard increments. The cut will not be absoutely perfect, but better than you can do with scissors (should be much better than you need for targeting).

Give them a call and mention that you're with an FRC team and they'll know what you're talking about.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Fair enough, but that it's not available elsewhere is a problem and has the potential to tarnish the image of FIRST.

Lots of teams are calling companies that, in all likelhood they will never do business with again, demanding immediate and urgent attention as they try to buy product(s) that are non-stock, have a 14 day lead and are generally unavailable.

I'm not sure that FRC should be inflicting this on 3M distributors.

Could (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41257) be (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80041) worse (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71036).

[CalTran]

Could (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41257) be (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80041) worse (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71036).

After reading through some of these threads, I'm thinking that perhaps FIRST should be my form of "inside trading"...;)

Anyhow, has anyone ever done testing to see just how different retroreflective tape is brand to brand?

[Joe Ross]

I received an email back from AndyMark that they will carry the Retro-Reflective tape, and will put it on the website once they have it in stock.

[rm -rf /]

I received an email back from AndyMark that they will carry the Retro-Reflective tape, and will put it on the website once they have it in stock.

If they have an inside contact at 3M that may work. What I've heard from the 3M distributors is that their lead time is at least 3-4 weeks for the 8830 tape.

The 8830 is a really fancy tape, it's even flame retardant, but that's what's spec'd for competition.

There are many "similar" tapes that are available, but how similar?

[Andy Baker]

I sent an email to AndyMark saying we'd buy 50 feet, if they carried it. Maybe if enough people offer to buy some, AndyMark will buy a case.

We ordered a couple of cases this past Thursday, expecting the demand. We will have this stuff in stock at the beginning of February (but we are trying to get it shipped sooner). We will sell it in 20 or 40 feet lengths. I think that one end of the field takes about 41 feet.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[sranton]

The kind folks out at Safety Effects (http://www.safetyeffects.com/t-contact.aspx) have 8" 8830 which they, because they realize there are many teams looking for it and it's hard to find, are willing to split (to 4") and sell in 10 yard increments. The cut will not be absoutely perfect, but better than you can do with scissors (should be much better than you need for targeting).

Give them a call and mention that you're with an FRC team and they'll know what you're talking about.

I just got off the phone with Doug at Safety Effects pertaining to this (thanks to Jim for doing the leg work!). Our 20 yards of 4" strip (cut from 8" as noted) will be shipping today or tomorrow. Should be more than enough to make all of our vision targets for testing. Doug is happy to field calls from FRC teams to get all of us this material, and I told him to expect some phone calls. Give him a call at 800-929-3975 (FYI, they are located in Kentucky).

[MechEng83]

We ordered a couple of cases this past Thursday, expecting the demand. We will have this stuff in stock at the beginning of February (but we are trying to get it shipped sooner). We will sell it in 20 or 40 feet lengths. I think that one end of the field takes about 41 feet.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

Yay!

[Andy Baker]

We ordered a couple of cases this past Thursday, expecting the demand. We will have this stuff in stock at the beginning of February (but we are trying to get it shipped sooner). We will sell it in 20 or 40 feet lengths. I think that one end of the field takes about 41 feet.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

We used our time machine and our teleporter and got some in today. Since this stuff is expensive, we are selling them in 21.5 foot lengths. Also, according to my FTA co-workers, they believe that 41 feet is needed on each end of a full field.

Here is the link on the AM site. (http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2465.htm)

Sincerely,
Andy