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View Full Version : Kinect in Ultimate Ascent Operator Console

nydnh01
12-01-2013, 21:49
Reading the Getting Started With Microsoft Kinect for FRC 2013 from FIRST forge, it states: "2013 Kinect Usage Notes: Per the 2013 FRC Rules, use of a Microsoft Kinect device is a permitted as part of a team’s Operator Console. No Kinect and no Kinect Kiosk will be provided on the playing field. Teams are expected to coordinate with their alliance to arrange for any space they may need in the Alliance Station to operate the Kinect."

Can someone explain to me how would we be able to use the kinect at the Alliance Station?
F22Rapture
12-01-2013, 22:25
Frankly, I'm not sure why we would want to use one. Far more tempermental and less accurate than joysticks.
ToddF
12-01-2013, 22:27
Well, something I notice is that there don't seem to be any rules against using a kinect to operate your robot in a teleoperated fashion while in autonomous mode. Drivers just have to stand behind the line. Waving your arms around to drive your robot with a kinect seems perfectly legal.
nighterfighter
12-01-2013, 23:05
Well, something I notice is that there don't seem to be any rules against using a kinect to operate your robot in a teleoperated fashion while in autonomous mode. Drivers just have to stand behind the line. Waving your arms around to drive your robot with a kinect seems perfectly legal.

Isn't there a rule saying all special equipment must be unplugged until teleop starts?

On my phone at the moment, so I can't find the rule.
Kevin Selavko
12-01-2013, 23:08
I believe it is any devices held or worn by drivers.
G21
During AUTO, any control devices worn or held by the DRIVERS must be disconnected from the OPERATOR CONSOLE and not connected until TELEOP.
BigJ
12-01-2013, 23:33
Worth a Q&A but I'd interpret using a Kinect on your OPERATOR CONSOLE during AUTO to be against the spirit of the rules.

From the "Ultimate Ascent Summary" in the manual:

The match begins with a fifteen (15)-second Autonomous Period in which robots operate independently of driver inputs.

I mean, otherwise it would have technically been legal any year to make a custom control board with an array of ultrasonic sensors or something to control your robot from behind the line (I think) ;).

Also, not that it means much, but the fact that the period is called AUTO and not HYBRID is another telling sign.

Anyway, I think a team could use their time developing Kinect stuff to make a better autonomous mode, but it's probably a good question for the GDC.
Ekcrbe
12-01-2013, 23:37
Other than the system provided by the ARENA, no other form of wireless communications shall be used to communicate to, from, or within the OPERATOR CONSOLE.

Examples of prohibited wireless systems include, but are not limited to, active wireless network cards and Bluetooth devices. For the case of FRC, a motion sensing input device (e.g. Microsoft Kinect) is not considered wireless communication and is allowed.
Emphasis mine. The GDC went so far as to tell you it's legal.
nighterfighter
12-01-2013, 23:39
Emphasis mine. The GDC went so far as to tell you it's legal.

It is allowed.

The question is, can it be used during autonomous?
AlexD744
13-01-2013, 03:09
If it's plugged into your driver station, doesn't it not matter because the robot ignores inputs sent to from the driver station during autonomous. I mean, you could theoretically program a robot's response to joysticks in autonomous, but they would be ignored regardless. Correct? And if so, wouldn't it work the same way with the Kinect?
Greg McKaskle
13-01-2013, 07:32
If your team modifies the Kinect Server to send data via another protocol, even SmartDashboard, that seems to be allowed.

Greg McKaskle
Ekcrbe
13-01-2013, 12:40
It is allowed.

The question is, can it be used during autonomous?

Though not specifically stated in a rule, I think the intent is no.

...
The match begins with a fifteen (15)-second Autonomous Period in which robots operate independently of driver inputs.
...

...
AUTO: the first 15 seconds of the MATCH in which ROBOTS operate without direct DRIVER control.
...
Joe Ross
13-01-2013, 14:05
If it's plugged into your driver station, doesn't it not matter because the robot ignores inputs sent to from the driver station during autonomous. I mean, you could theoretically program a robot's response to joysticks in autonomous, but they would be ignored regardless. Correct? And if so, wouldn't it work the same way with the Kinect?

Did you test it this year and find it doesn't send data in Autonomous, or are you speculating? Remember that it did send data during Autonomous last year.
Gregor
13-01-2013, 14:09
Did you test it this year and find it doesn't send data in Autonomous, or are you speculating? Remember that it did send data during Autonomous last year.

It seems like his post is phrased as a question.
Bob Steele
16-01-2013, 17:54
I put this question in Q and A today

During Autonomous do the rules allow the use of a Kinect attached to the operator console to provide input to the robot?

We will see what they say
nighterfighter
17-01-2013, 11:35
The Q&A has responded to this question:

There are no Rules prohibiting this.



So yes, you can use the kinect during autonomous.