Could human players score points with the fresbie?

[Bruno Inácio]

Hi,

I'm with a doubt about this: "Could human players score points with the fresbie?", I don't found anything about this possibility on the game rules and the game's video is not clearly. :(

So, Is this possible or not ? :confused:

Tks ::rtm::

Bruno

[dellagd]

Technically at any time throughout the match it's legal for the human player to score points, but its probably only possible in the last 30 seconds when they can throw the discs over the alliance wall.

[JesseK]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, except for the random pyramid disc, no. Frisbee physics will prevent human player scoring this year.

[NotaJoke]

While it may be legal (during the last 30 seconds,) it will be very difficult and will be very rare. The human players are very close to the alliance station wall, and the goals are more than 50 feet away.
There's also the possibility that no disks are left in the last 30 seconds...

[BrianT103]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, except for the random pyramid disc, no. Frisbee physics will prevent human player scoring this year.

I would have to say that's a very far-reaching and weak limb that you are going out on.

BT

[JesseK]

I would have to say that's a very far-reaching and weak limb that you are going out on.

BT

I know it is, and it's anecdotal. I've played a bit of disc golf, a bit of Rec Ultimate, and a couple of clique league games (WAFC). I have yet to see a hammer thrown by an experienced thrower that actually has enough finesse to squeak into the mid-goal. They hover too long and fall straight down.

Now, a forehand is more plausible than a hammer -- yet it's still a steep angle since it's an 8 foot wall. Plus I can't seem to remember a forehand ever being released higher than someone's waist. The Frisbee Physics paper at MIT (http://web.mit.edu/womens-ult/www/smite/frisbee_physics.pdf) shows that a hugely steep angle like what would have to be thrown is wildly non-linear, requiring precision launch angles to get the distance and the final height correct (for an upright disc).

[Squeakypig]

We have yet to have any human play tryouts, but our new hopeful took 10 shots from our human station and hit 5 into the 2 point goal. On average, I'd say he is 30%, he had a good night the other night. Definitely very plausible, hammer throw is the way to go, practice, practice, practice.

[sodizzle]

We almost have an entire practice field set up. We are only missing a pyramid, but we are not having an incredibly difficult time scoring the frisbees. I don't know how much the pyramid will affect the paths of the frisbees, but I think we will see much more scoring from human players than we did last year. I myself have actually scored s few as well.

[Qbot2640]

We have yet to have any human play tryouts, but our new hopeful took 10 shots from our human station and hit 5 into the 2 point goal. On average, I'd say he is 30%, he had a good night the other night. Definitely very plausible, hammer throw is the way to go, practice, practice, practice.

Our human player was having similar success in trials...I concur: practice^3.

[karomata]

I think that this year, matches are going to be won and lost by human player skills, especially at harder events like champs.

[ScottOliveira]

I think that this year, matches are going to be won and lost by human player skills, especially at harder events like champs.

I imagine that champs will be less likely to be decided by human player skill. Matches at regionals (especially qual matches) are more likely to be decided by human player skill, when there are very few robots that can score easily in any one match.

At the higher levels of competition, most discs will be scored by robots. There have been several teams who have already demonstrated it is possible to create very consistent 3-point scorers. I would be very surprised if any human player consistently achieved 50% accuracy on 3 pointers, which makes it difficult for them to compete with some of the bots at the higher levels of competition.

[dmitch]

While i don't think that the human player's scoring will account for a large part of points this year, it still may have a slight effect, and could even be a small selling point as teams pick their partners for the tournament matches. One of our seniors has found that after about 15 minutes of practice (he was already a fairly good frisbee thrower) he was able to get the discs within two or three feet of the chosen target every time, even when throwing over a simulated 8 foot wall (a sophomore on a chair holding his arms up). He is planning on doing this for at least a little bit every day, and we expect to see some pretty good results by the time competition rolls around.

[omalleyj]

The Lunacy year we had a very good human player who hit a number of last minute 'baskets' against moving targets, beyond half court, with a ball that could hardly be called aerodynamic, and a barrier in front of him. A couple of them were the winning difference (Thank you Brendan!).

So I have to agree with those advocating practice. Besides, what else are you going to do, just stand and watch if there are discs left? Didn't think so. So may as well be ready to take advantage of the moment.

The human race survived for a long time by throwing things at things that didn't want to be hit. :)

[Jay O'Donnell]

I'd say it's definitely possible, and will even change the outcome of some matches. Will it be as important as 2004 or 2009? No, not even close. But compared to the last three years, human players can have a much more major impact.

[Nemo]

This year there is no defined back end of the alliance station, right? Unless I'm missing a rule, the human player can back away from the wall to eliminate the need to throw the frisbee at a steep upward angle. That should make it easier to score.

[Tyler Olds]

I predict this year that more colored disks will land in the opponet alliance's pyramid goal then the team's alliance pyramid goal.

[Jay O'Donnell]

This year there is no defined back end of the alliance station, right? Unless I'm missing a rule, the human player can back away from the wall to eliminate the need to throw the frisbee at a steep upward angle. That should make it easier to score.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe you must stay on the carpet. (so it acts like a boundary)

[JohnYes869]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, except for the random pyramid disc, no. Frisbee physics will prevent human player scoring this year.
Team 869 has a few students including myself that are very into ultimate frisbee so we actually held tryouts for the position. Using a hammer throw style we were able to make about 4 frisbees in a goal the size and height of the second goal that was 50 feet away while throwing over a wall we made. This would happen on a good run. It is hard to do, but it is very possible.

[Pi3th0n]

One thing that will need to be considered is that if players start throwing hammers at the end of the match, there will be upside-down frisbees everywhere. Unless your robot is climbing, this could the last thirty seconds extremely difficult

[cmrnpizzo14]

Would it be illegal for the human player to bring something into the station to stand on? A 1 foot high wooden box to stand on could make a huge difference. I can't see any real problems with this, but I have a feeling that there is a rule against it somewhere....

[engunneer]

I am quite certain that would be illegal. What would prevent a team having students on stilts?

[StevenB]

Whoa! Too much speculation! Time to read the manual. ::rtm::


During the MATCH, TEAMS must be within their ALLIANCE STATION. Exceptions will be granted for inadvertent or inconsequential infractions and in cases concerning safety.
Violation: FOUL
The ALLIANCE STATION extends 10 ft. back from the ALLIANCE WALL, and spans the entire width of the wall. Look at the diagram in section 2.2.2.

Would it be illegal for the human player to bring something into the station to stand on? A 1 foot high wooden box to stand on could make a huge difference. I can't see any real problems with this, but I have a feeling that there is a rule against it somewhere....

The only equipment that may be brought in to the ALLIANCE STATION are as follows:
A) the OPERATOR CONSOLE,
B) non-powered signaling devices,
C) reasonable decorative items,
D) special clothing and/or equipment required due to a disability
E) devices used solely for the purpose of planning or tracking strategy...

Like previous years, special equipment for the human player is not allowed.

[JJackson]

We have been able to get Frisbees into the 3 point goal successfully with the pyramid where it goes(We've been throwing from 1-2' behind the feeder station). However, 2 point shots are much easier. I believe the human player will be able to make a great impact this year.

By the way human players could and did change the outcome of matches last year as well. Finals match 2 at QCR our human player got the regional winning basket.

[Grim Tuesday]

I predict this year that more colored disks will land in the opponet alliance's pyramid goal then the team's alliance pyramid goal.

G17
An ALLIANCE may not put DISCS in their opponents’ PYRAMID GOAL.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per DISC.

-The Manual

[EricLeifermann]

-The Manual

It will be unintentional. He isn't saying that HP's are just going to purposefully throw colored discs into the wrong pyramid goal.

[Tyler Olds]

I predict this year that more colored disks will land in the opponet alliance's pyramid goal then the team's alliance pyramid goal.

-
G17
An ALLIANCE may not put DISCS in their opponents’ PYRAMID GOAL.

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per DISC.

The Manual

Emphasis Mine

I said will land; this has nothing to do with the manual or a strategy. It is entirely plausible that disks thrown by a HP will land in the opponents pyramid goal while attempting to score on their own which would cause technical fouls.

[Michael Corsetto]

To those who speculate on this, you need to try it out yourself. Set up a mark on an outside wall and put a feeder station wall the appropriate distance away.

Keeping the blocking pyramid in mind, I think you will be surprised with how many shots you can make.

I can make maybe 30% 3pt shots, and I'm honestly not that great at frisbee, especially the hammer. But at the 54 ft mark, the frisbee flattens out very nicely to slide into the goal upside-down when using the hammer technique.

I know video or it didn't happen, but our HP is shooting 60% high goal.

In a game where I doubt 50% of discs will be used in all but the most competitive matches, it's going to be a busy 30 seconds for the HP...

Anyone want to hire this guy? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLbz0X_7waU) ;)

-Mike

[Justin Shelley]

I can see human players making shots in practice. In competition there will be added stress and then there's the question of whether or not any frisbees will be left to throw with? Also to teams that said they can score what percentage are you making at 2pt and 3pt