How far are people shooting?

[Geary]

I don't know if their is a thread for this already but I was wondering if we are shooting to short, when our shooter is flat it is shooting around 12-14 feet we are just trying to experiment with angles we did 10 and got to 15 feet. How far is the typical first team shooting if they are doing a shooter?

[nuggetsyl]

10 feet 8 3/4 inches give or take 1000th of an inch. Boy I hope the feild is build to spec?

[DjScribbles]

We were able to get 48feet or so with a relatively good accuracy (for a prototype). I'm holding onto hope for a full court shot, but it's still a stretch.

For the sake of sharing, we have a curved shooter wall with a ~7" wheel in the middle, and ~10.5" between the wheel tread and the curved wall, wired directly to a cim motor

[GilaMonsterAlex]

We were hitting the 3pt shot from 25ft, and I'm sure we could do 30-35ft.

Inline shooter - with 8.5" wheels.

[jwfoss]

FRC2168 is designing to shoot a few different distances less then 122".
FRC558 is going for a lot less distance than that right now.

Our question during prototyping: Why shoot farther then you need to?

[Negative 9]

Our prototype got around 10-15 ft as well, but we're waiting on some parts that should hopefully let us shoot from a lot farther.

[EricLeifermann]

FRC2168 is designing to shoot a few different distances less then 122".
FRC558 is going for a lot less distance than that right now.

Our question during prototyping: Why shoot farther then you need to?

So you don't have to drive as far to get discs from the feeder station, which will save time which will allow you to shoot more discs...

[billbo911]

...
Our question during prototyping: Why shoot farther then you need to?

This!

[matthewdenny]

Even more importantly, how accurate are people from various distances. I humanly can easily throw a frisbee 50 maybe 100 feet. I also might kneecap a referee with it.

[Nick Lawrence]

10 feet 8 3/4 inches give or take 1000th of an inch. Boy I hope the feild is build to spec?

Hahahhaa.


We're shooting from three hundred feet. Maybe they'll let us shoot from the queuing line?

-Nick

[ctccromer]

during our prototyping, when we tested just to see how far we could shoot it at the one (not adjustable) our shooter is set at, we shot about 40-45 feet

EDIT: and at a glance, the shooter angle seems to be about 35 or 40 degrees

[Kevin Sevcik]

So you don't have to drive as far to get discs from the feeder station, which will save time which will allow you to shoot more discs...Assuming no one's in your way or bumping you to throw off your aim, of course.

We're figuring we'll save more time and be more accurate if we back into the pyramid to set our range and aim, then fire from there. And pop forward to tag an opponent and draw a foul if they're trying to block us, of course.

[Kevin Selavko]

Hahahhaa.


We're shooting from three hundred feet. Maybe they'll let us shoot from the queuing line?

-Nick

You will have to shoot over the net, would be pretty impressive:p

[EricLeifermann]

Assuming no one's in your way or bumping you to throw off your aim, of course.

We're figuring we'll save more time and be more accurate if we back into the pyramid to set our range and aim, then fire from there. And pop forward to tag an opponent and draw a foul if they're trying to block us, of course.

Agreed, we have a similar plan, just at a different location on the pyramid.

Our shot is farther away from the goal so there is definitely the added variance in that, but I like our chances to be able to shoot more by not having to drive as far.

[SoccerTaco]

We're figuring we'll save more time and be more accurate if we back into the pyramid to set our range and aim, then fire from there. And pop forward to tag an opponent and draw a foul if they're trying to block us, of course.


If you pop forward solely to draw a foul, does 18-1 come into play here and negate the foul on the blocker?


Rule 18-1:
Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of FRC and are not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in assessment of a penalty on the target ALLIANCE .

[z_beeblebrox]

Yesterday, our prototype shooter (CIM and miniCIM directly driving 2 8" AM pneumatic wheels) was easily firing across our 30' practice room with little vertical drop.

Our team plans to be versatile with shooting positions, as we have our shooter on a tilting mount, but I expect we'll primarily be firing from the back of our pyramid and from the feeder station (if we can get adequate accuracy at such a long range)

[Nick Lawrence]

You will have to shoot over the net, would be pretty impressive:p

That curve.

-Nick

[philso]

Yesterday, our prototype shooter (CIM and miniCIM directly driving 2 8" AM pneumatic wheels) was easily firing across our 30' practice room with little vertical drop.


How are your motors holding up? We were using an 8 inch AndyMark FIRST directly mounted on a mini-CIM shaft and got some good shots until the motor bearing gave out.

[4057programmer]

FIRST team 4057 has a prototype shooting accurately from 55 feet out at 60% power. It was at this time we realized the hazards of testing inside as we ramped up the power and put a dent in the duct system in the school. ::ouch::

[TheMadCADer]

If you pop forward solely to draw a foul, does 18-1 come into play here and negate the foul on the blocker?


Rule 18-1:
Strategies aimed solely at forcing the opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule are not in the spirit of FRC and are not allowed. Rule violations forced in this manner will not result in assessment of a penalty on the target ALLIANCE .

No, the rule regarding the feeder and pyramid safe zones specifically designates that it doesn't matter who initiates contact.

18-1 is intended to prevent things like loading discs into another robot so it has more than 4 or pushing an opposing robot into one of your own partners that is trying to climb, so that the opposing robot gets huge penalties.

[Wildcats1378]

Our shooter has been tested at 27 feet into the top goal consistently, but we've shot 50+ feet into someone's outstretched arms 7 feet in the air. Need some more testing
So far, some of the most important things We've learned is that:
There has to be a stable, stable back wall.
If it's a circular shooter, more compression tends to shoot it farther.
No skid tape helps a lot.

Our shooter was shooting like 10-15 feet, and it was a bit disappointing. We were about t give up, but we just moved the wheel in like 1/4 in, and it started FLINGING those things out to 40 feet or so.

[z_beeblebrox]

How are your motors holding up? We were using an 8 inch AndyMark FIRST directly mounted on a mini-CIM shaft and got some good shots until the motor bearing gave out.

So far they're ok as the motor is well supported, but we haven't run it much yet.

[Justin Shelley]

i believe our robot will be capable of shooting from feeder station but i fear a defensive robot will park infront of us nd block us. is that legal?

[DanielCH]

i believe our robot will be capable of shooting from feeder station but i fear a defensive robot will park infront of us nd block us. is that legal?

As long as they adhere to space restrictions, yes.

There is no rule against simply being in the way of a shooting robot, but there are plenty of rules you could break while doing so (pinning, etc). See section 3.2.6 "ROBOT-ROBOT Interaction" of the game manual for more information.

[Andrew Lawrence]

We're planning on scoring a little more than over 9000 from the goal. Give or take a little.

[CalTran]

Oh, y'know, we're attending Greater Kansas City, but plan on outscoring OP Robotics at their regionals...:)

[DonRotolo]

We shoot from about 60 feet away. But the frisbee doesn't go nearly that far :p
From 12 feet we're 100% easily, from 25 feet almost but not quite, we are seeing some curve at that point. They tell me 40 feet is not bad, but I have not seen it myself.

[Bochek]

We're shooting about 20ft dead straight, no wheels.

[DonRotolo]

We're shooting about 20ft dead straight, no wheels.No wheels? Care to elaborate? Sounds fascinating.

[MrForbes]

30ish feet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rafV51xbnOk

[Alan Anderson]

The first actual frisbee shots from the TechnoKats' frisbee shooter went about 20 feet into a mentor's hands. Consistently.

After tweaking some speeds and wheel placement, it'll regularly send frisbees the full length of the field, starting at about hip level and hitting the tarp behind the goals on a still-upward trajectory. Consistency suffers ever so slightly at that distance. I doubt that'll be the team's strategy during matches, but it's fun to see it working so well.

Whether it works that well on a driveable robot remains to be seen.

[dchartley]

We are going to go for the full court shot, probably at the larger target. Our Team developed a 3 wheel system using 2 wheels on the horizontal plane that are belted together and run direct drive off a single CIM and single wheel in the vertical plane that runs direct drive off another CIM. Top wheel is mounted slightly to left of center. Velocity is running over 30 fps and is flying flat and stable. Probably going to have to make some hefty guards for the fast spinning wheels in case of failure.

Doug

http://youtu.be/i4LRvcwTFEA

[DanielCH]

The first actual frisbee shots from the TechnoKats' frisbee shooter went about 20 feet into a mentor's hands. Consistently.

After tweaking some speeds and wheel placement, it'll regularly send frisbees the full length of the field, starting at about hip level and hitting the tarp behind the goals on a still-upward trajectory. Consistency suffers ever so slightly at that distance. I doubt that'll be the team's strategy during matches, but it's fun to see it working so well.

Whether it works that well on a driveable robot remains to be seen.

If it's not confidential, would you mind explaining why that wouldn't be your primary strategy during a match?

45 shots into the 3 point goal, even at 75% accuracy, is over 100 points by my calculations -- you could single handedly outscore three top level climbers, even without points you could make in autonomous or climbing.

It seems quite ideal, assuming your motors can hold up against 45 shots in 120 seconds.

[MrForbes]

45 shots into the 3 point goal

I think 45 frisbees won't physically fit into the 3 point goal? :p

[MichaelBick]

If it's not confidential, would you mind explaining why that wouldn't be your primary strategy during a match?

45 shots into the 3 point goal, even at 75% accuracy, is over 100 points by my calculations -- you could single handedly outscore three top level climbers, even without points you could make in autonomous or climbing.

It seems quite ideal, assuming your motors can hold up against 45 shots in 120 seconds.

If somebody can do this while trying to shoot over an 84" tall robot 3 feet away I will be impressed. Remember it only takes 1 small pole in front of that shooter to mess up that strategy.

[JohnSchneider]

If somebody can do this while trying to shoot over an 84" tall robot 3 feet away I will be impressed. Remember it only takes 1 small pole in front of that shooter to mess up that strategy.

also to not that only 1/3 feeder slots is protected

[Andrew Lawrence]

also to not that only 1/3 feeder slots is protected

I believe 2/3 are protected, and 1/3 (the one next to your opponent's 1pt goal) is unprotected.

[DanielCH]

I think 45 frisbees won't physically fit into the 3 point goal? :p

How do you figure that? I'm not sure, but at this (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/2013_Game_Specific_Drawings.pdf)field drawing, page 69/146, it appears that the high goal has a bin that is 26 inches down, 54 inches across, and 22.5 inches deep below the gap for the goal.

That's 31,590^3 inches for Frisbee to fall into, and assuming a Frisbee is 11 inches long and wide, and 1.4 inches tall, one Frisbee is ~169^3 inches. 45*169^3=7,623^3 inches.

I could have easily made an error in my calculations, or interpretations of the field drawings, but it seems to me as if 45 Frisbees would fit into the high goal without much issue.

If somebody can do this while trying to shoot over an 84" tall robot 3 feet away I will be impressed. Remember it only takes 1 small pole in front of that shooter to mess up that strategy.

That's definitely something to take into consideration, and a strategy my team is considering employing as a backup tactic, but if you could either

1) Pop a few Frisbees off before a defender comes around, and then head off to your pyramid for protected shooting, or

2) In the event your opposing alliance has a combination of immobile/shooting only/climbing only robots, use this strategy.

[Andrew Lawrence]

We believe we will be making quick and accurate shots from around 36 feet away from the targets.

[DampRobot]

We are shooting into the goals. It isn't shooting far that counts. It's scoring points.

[MichaelBick]

1) Pop a few Frisbees off before a defender comes around, and then head off to your pyramid for protected shooting, or

2) In the event your opposing alliance has a combination of immobile/shooting only/climbing only robots, use this strategy.

I'd be worried about 1 because the first thing I think most alliances will do will be to send a defender to block the best scorer on the opposing alliance. It may very well turn into a battle of drivetrains where the best shooter from each alliance immediately races to the feeder station and another robot from each alliance races to block them.

[Bochek]

No wheels? Care to elaborate? Sounds fascinating.

We are using a belt. Surface speed of about 200 km/h (120mph).

[MrForbes]

How do you figure that? I'm not sure, but at this (http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2013/2013_Game_Specific_Drawings.pdf)field drawing, page 69/146, it appears that the high goal has a bin that is 26 inches down, 54 inches across, and 22.5 inches deep below the gap for the goal.

That's 31,590^3 inches for Frisbee to fall into, and assuming a Frisbee is 11 inches long and wide, and 1.4 inches tall, one Frisbee is ~169^3 inches. 45*169^3=7,623^3 inches.

I could have easily made an error in my calculations, or interpretations of the field drawings, but it seems to me as if 45 Frisbees would fit into the high goal without much issue.

It looks like you're right, thanks.

This idea is looking better and better.

[JB987]

If somebody can do this while trying to shoot over an 84" tall robot 3 feet away I will be impressed. Remember it only takes 1 small pole in front of that shooter to mess up that strategy.

Even a cheap, very lightweight pvc pole or two fixed at 10-12" apart and 60" high can shut down a long shooter extremely well while still giving a bot full field access. Installed for inspection, the "apparatus" could be used (or not) depending on the opponents faced in each upcoming match. Any marginally offensive robot or defensive robot should at least consider the option.

[wireties]

Even a cheap, very lightweight pvc pole or two fixed at 10-12" apart and 60" high can shut down a long shooter extremely well while still giving a bot full field access. Installed for inspection, the "apparatus" could be used (or not) depending on the opponents faced in each upcoming match. Any marginally offensive robot or defensive robot should at least consider the option.

great idea!

we can throw the discs almost 40' with a 1-wheeld shooter prototype but our 2-wheeled prototype (that uses motors we can use on the robot) sucks - so far

[TheMadCADer]

I believe 2/3 are protected, and 1/3 (the one next to your opponent's 1pt goal) is unprotected.

But that doesn't matter, because you can put your 45 discs at any of the three stations in any configuration as you please (see Q&A).

[darkember]

I have a feeling that we are going to see a lot of full court shooters so im gonna also agree on the stock for 84" tall defense robots to be really high.

[TheOtherGuy]

We've finally gotten our hopper-to-shooter prototype up and running and are moving full-swing on to CADding the sheet-metal version. We fired it up today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCHPkhigkks

Linear shooter, mini-CIM on first wheel, CIM on second, with AM pneumatic wheels. Estimated 30-40 foot travel at about 40%/60% on the two wheels, respectively, at 15-20 degrees. Definitely looking optimistic at this point! Thanks to all the teams that posted success with the paint buckets, can't beat $3 essential robot parts :rolleyes:

[lynca]

We are going for the back of the pyramid , we would like to make shots consistently from 13' to 25' straight line distance from the 3-goal.

[TheCrayButton]

We are going to go for the full court shot, probably at the larger target. Our Team developed a 3 wheel system using 2 wheels on the horizontal plane that are belted together and run direct drive off a single CIM and single wheel in the vertical plane that runs direct drive off another CIM. Top wheel is mounted slightly to left of center. Velocity is running over 30 fps and is flying flat and stable. Probably going to have to make some hefty guards for the fast spinning wheels in case of failure.

Doug

http://youtu.be/i4LRvcwTFEA

WOW! That is a great shooter! Very interesting design. I never thought of mounting the well above the frisbee before!

My team is shooting consistently at 60ft away. We are planning on shooting full court, but we don't have to if we are blocked.

VIDEO:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzIkee13KB0&feature=player_profilepage

[capnslow]

We're shooting full court, I don't know what our max range is though. Our shooter is a very different design and is powered by two (2) PG71 motors.

[vic burg]

Wow, I'm impressed! With our (4622's) first shooter we get maybe 8-9 feet at peak with 50% power and around 6 feet if it's 100% or 25% power which is really random but we're working on it and other shooter designs. We know the main issue with our shooter is the track it follows (the piece that helps to guide) is not at the right curve so once we get that fixed we'll probably be shooting further. Height is only around 5 feet, though.

[1502]

We are shooting from anywhere on the field. We can shoot full court with about 80% accuracy with a speed of about 54 feet per second at around a 10 degree angle. Variable angle shooter allows for up close shooting. Mecanum drive. Current projected weight is 100 lbs. I'd post a video if I had one. I will asap! :cool:

[JohnFogarty]

Yeah, we have a shooter capable of longer than full court shots. We'll be able to change our shooter's angle for different distances as well. at 80% accuracy without speed control. Imagine what it will be with speed control. (;

[Siri]

We made a full court 3-pointer on Sunday (yes, yes, video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niYh2uhER-E&t=37s)) and went a miraculous 4 for 8 from the feeder station today. Unfortunately no video of that yet, but if we can't replicate it for the camera tomorrow it won't much matter that it happened today.

Generally though, we still intend to shoot from the back of the pyramid through the rungs (we ended the night hitting 12 in a row, and will occasionally miss 1 in 20). We can also hit from a few other places touching the pyramid. It's an arc shooter (<90deg) with a direct drive mini-CIM and a white HiGrip or a custom bike tread on a plaction wheel (we've had success with both--still deciding). 1/2+" compression, in and around a 20deg angle, depending on exactly how we feed into the wheel.