View Full Version : pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
[cdm-description=photo]38400[/cdm-description]
Good God! Is that 4 CIMs per side for the drivetrain?
President 1502
24-01-2013, 17:37
I thought only 6 cim's were allowed this year.
klmx30302
24-01-2013, 17:37
Good God! Is that 4 CIMs per side for the drivetrain?
Looks like 3 CIMs per side, there is a 4th on one side resting above the frame, it doesn't look mounted to me, and are those versa wheels I see? Nice job, looks great!
z_beeblebrox
24-01-2013, 17:42
6 CIMs, 2 miniCIMs? Or extra CIM to confuse? Seems like the driver will be the power source for climbing? I'm no expert on mechanical matters, but maybe the pneumatic cylinder engages a power take-off. Is seems like shifters are unnecessary with so much power on the drive as you can be both fast and pushy.
Just a guess, so feel free to prove me wrong.
We'll miss you at the Phoenix Regional this year.
BitTwiddler
24-01-2013, 18:14
I wish I could coax our students to properly label the wires such as I see here. Nice job!
Blackphantom91
24-01-2013, 18:46
That's a pretty nifty drive-train you got there. Wonder how you are going to do the other activations. On the cool part you can just speed too wherever you want. Love the robot so far!
Looks like another stellar drivetrain for 610.
Intriguing #35 chain there. Even more intriguing is the massive smiley face.
nuggetsyl
24-01-2013, 19:12
This picture makes me happy my team is using talons.:-)
6 CIMs, 2 miniCIMs? Or extra CIM to confuse? Seems like the driver will be the power source for climbing? I'm no expert on mechanical matters, but maybe the pneumatic cylinder engages a power take-off. Is seems like shifters are unnecessary with so much power on the drive as you can be both fast and pushy.
Just a guess, so feel free to prove me wrong.
We'll miss you at the Phoenix Regional this year.
One of those gears in the drivetrain looks a little out of place. I would guess it's there for pto
AdamHeard
24-01-2013, 19:24
One of those gears in the drivetrain looks a little out of place. I would guess it's there for pto
Agreed, 6/8 "CIM" single speed w/ PTO.
Jim Wilks
24-01-2013, 19:29
Beautiful job so far!
Andrew Lawrence
24-01-2013, 20:50
Ooh...strong drivetrain. Me gusta. Me gusta mucho.
This thing looks like it's built for power. That PTO seems good with the 6 CIMs, but if it's not a PTO, that seems a little bit of overkill for a DT in a game where defense isn't going to be too common.
PayneTrain
24-01-2013, 20:58
This thing looks like it's built for power. That PTO seems good with the 6 CIMs, but if it's not a PTO, that seems a little bit of overkill for a DT in a game where defense isn't going to be too common.
I dunno, man. This is the most open field since 2007 (excluding 2009 for obvious reasons). I feel like this is a good year to gain an advantage with incredible drive trains, but I get that feeling just about every year.
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..:rolleyes:
nuggetsyl
24-01-2013, 21:42
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..:rolleyes:
No the robot is just happy that after build tonight its going to Tim Hortons.
Nick Lawrence
24-01-2013, 21:44
No the robot is just happy that after build tonight its going to Tim Hortons.
Where's the Chief Delphi "like" button?
Be right back, getting a large double double from the timmies around the corner.
-Nick
TheMadCADer
25-01-2013, 01:51
Where's the Chief Delphi "like" button?
Be right back, getting a large double double from the timmies around the corner.
-Nick
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
Looks good! Very elegant PTO setup.
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
I've got a tin of coffee in my pantry and shipping to Texas is only $10.35 via Canada Post. The offer is out there!
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
Michigan has Timmy's Of course, we drive South to go to Canada...;)
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
I'm in Texas too. The last time we flew out of Vancouver, we bought a big box of TimBits from the Tim Hortons in the Departure Lounge. My wife (from Toronto) and I debated auctioning them off, individually, during the flight since it would be a long time before many of the other passengers would be able to get their fix again. We ended up eating them all ourselves :D
Lil' Lavery
25-01-2013, 09:55
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close.
Kyler Hagler
25-01-2013, 10:12
Where did you get the air tank holder? On another note, great looking drive train!! Looks really clean.
Ian Curtis
25-01-2013, 12:41
Michigan has Timmy's Of course, we drive South to go to Canada...;)
Maine has them too. Here in Washington I have to drive up across the border to BC for an iced cap. If it wasn't for border patrol getting super suspicious of going through all that hassle for a beverage I'd do it more often. (The Canadians understand though)
Jhultink
25-01-2013, 12:45
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..:rolleyes:
I think it is just a battery tester :)
For a more relevant question... How is the new 2CAN working for you, and CANbus in general, so far in 2013?
Andrew Schreiber
25-01-2013, 14:51
For a more relevant question... How is the new 2CAN working for you, and CANbus in general, so far in 2013?
I'm not 610 but I can tell you that 79 hasn't had any problems with either the 2CAN or the CANbus in general this year. The only major problem we have is that our electrical team has a nasty habit of pull Jags off the bus that we still talk to and it introduces a stutter into the system. Despite our best efforts we have not been able to rectify this problem (the electrical team removing Jags, the stutter is fixed by not writing to that Jag).
Well, another Saturday in the books. Figured I'd post a quick response before a night-time Timmie's run...
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts)
It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance.
To answer some questions:
Yes, the smiley is covering something. We noticed one of the frisbee manipulating components got into the picture, and needed to be covered up.
The air tank holder is custom cut 1/4" lexan on our CNC router, again designed by Ryan Tam. It is basically four holes, as the tanks have a nice raised boss at each end that you can support them by.
As for CAN, it worked well for us last year, but we had a few hundred lines of code dedicated to CAN Error Recovery. Without it, we would have been dead in the water. We used the black serial adapter last year, and this is the first year we are using the 2CAN. It's still a bit early to give any meaningful feedback, as all we've done is some light open-loop driving.
Andrew Schreiber
26-01-2013, 21:14
Well, another Saturday in the books. Figured I'd post a quick response before a night-time Timmie's run...
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts)
It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance.
To answer some questions:
Yes, the smiley is covering something. We noticed one of the frisbee manipulating components got into the picture, and needed to be covered up.
The air tank holder is custom cut 1/4" lexan on our CNC router, again designed by Ryan Tam. It is basically four holes, as the tanks have a nice raised boss at each end that you can support them by.
As for CAN, it worked well for us last year, but we had a few hundred lines of code dedicated to CAN Error Recovery. Without it, we would have been dead in the water. We used the black serial adapter last year, and this is the first year we are using the 2CAN. It's still a bit early to give any meaningful feedback, as all we've done is some light open-loop driving.
Im interested in the CAN Error Recovery stuff. Could you elaborate?
Im interested in the CAN Error Recovery stuff. Could you elaborate?
We coded our robot in Java using the Command-based template.
Within each subsystem that used a Jaguar, we ensured that whenever we caught a CANTimeOutException, we called a subsystem-specific recovery method to re-initialize and verify the configurations of all Jags within that subsystem.
This ended up being a bit tricky for some sub-systems, as we switched Jaguar configurations depending on the task we were doing. i.e. the drivetrain could be in VBus, Position, or Speed mode at different times in the match. We had to keep track of these states, and restore them gracefully.
We had to handle the deadlock condition as well, because sometimes the error recovery would cause more CANTimeoutExceptions if the affected Jag wasn't ready to be re-initialized. Gracefully handling this condition without stopping your entire CAN communications bus was a bit tricky.
At worst we only wanted a single sub-system to "pause" just long enough to gracefully re-initialize the Jaguars after an exception. All the other sub-systems had to keep going as if nothing happened.
Is the perimeter of this thing really under 112 inches? It looks huge!
Is the perimeter of this thing really under 112 inches? It looks huge!
Our perimeter measures out at 110".
The VersaWheels do funny things to the perspective.
Andrew Schreiber
26-01-2013, 22:06
We coded our robot in Java using the Command-based template.
Within each subsystem that used a Jaguar, we ensured that whenever we caught a CANTimeOutException, we called a subsystem-specific recovery method to re-initialize and verify the configurations of all Jags within that subsystem.
This ended up being a bit tricky for some sub-systems, as we switched Jaguar configurations depending on the task we were doing. i.e. the drivetrain could be in VBus, Position, or Speed mode at different times in the match. We had to keep track of these states, and restore them gracefully.
We had to handle the deadlock condition as well, because sometimes the error recovery would cause more CANTimeoutExceptions if the affected Jag wasn't ready to be re-initialized. Gracefully handling this condition without stopping your entire CAN communications bus was a bit tricky.
At worst we only wanted a single sub-system to "pause" just long enough to gracefully re-initialize the Jaguars after an exception. All the other sub-systems had to keep going as if nothing happened.
Interesting, maybe I'll have to chat with you guys in more depth post season about this. We use Iterative and C++ so your approach wouldn't work for us.
Nick Lawrence
26-01-2013, 23:09
Our perimeter measures out at 110".
The VersaWheels do funny things to the perspective.
This is especially true with 256's drivetrain.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=112141
-Nick
WileyB-J
26-01-2013, 23:13
Sweet multimeter.
Brandon Zalinsky
27-01-2013, 10:51
I dunno, man. This is the most open field since 2007 (excluding 2009 for obvious reasons). I feel like this is a good year to gain an advantage with incredible drive trains, but I get that feeling just about every year.
I agree with you here. With the lack of safe zones, teams that decide not to pursue shooting will have a very good opportunity to be a defense bot.
MichaelBick
27-01-2013, 11:19
I agree with you here. With the lack of safe zones, teams that decide not to pursue shooting will have a very good opportunity to be a defense bot.
I disagree. There is one rather large safe zone of each side of the field(the pyramid)
Jay O'Donnell
27-01-2013, 13:10
I disagree. There is one rather large safe zone of each side of the field(the pyramid)
While I agree with you that those are two major protected zones, this field can be considered more open because there is nothing in the middle of the field. I have a feeling that lots of teams will have to traverse the field to the feeding station, so defense in the middle of the field may be at a premium. I'd be interested to see a list of percentages on how much of each game's field is taken up by field elements or protected areas.
Abarth15
05-03-2013, 12:53
How do the horizontal tubes attach to your side plates? I see a bolt coming out but can't tell what that is anchored in.
Rob Stehlik
05-03-2013, 14:09
How do the horizontal tubes attach to your side plates? I see a bolt coming out but can't tell what that is anchored in.
We put three roll pins through the side plates that fit into the inside corners of the horizontal tubes. The fourth corner is used for a threaded rod to tie everything together. We started using this construction a few years ago, and it has served us well.
Abarth15
05-03-2013, 16:35
So the threaded rod crosses the entire chassis?
So the threaded rod crosses the entire chassis?
Yes! You can see it through the holes in the square tubes at the back of the robot.
Use one of the two bottom holes for the threaded rod. Gravity and the inside corner of the square tube will help everything line up. The oval cutouts aren't just to save weight, but also provide access into the tube to help align the threaded rod when assembling/disassembling.
This square tube + plate + roll pins + threaded rod assembly is one of my favourite "little-things" that our Design and Manufacturing sub-teams do.
So what was behind the smiley face?
akoscielski3
26-05-2013, 13:38
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close.
Tim Hortons > EVERYTHING
Kernaghan
29-05-2013, 10:24
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close.
Timmies put Krispy Kreme out of business where I come from :cool:
Tmaxxrox97
29-05-2013, 18:07
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts)
It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance.
Is there a CAD file of this drivetrain available? The floating encoders and mounts sound like a really cool idea and I would like to take a look at them if I could.
Travis Hoffman
29-05-2013, 19:36
So what was behind the smiley face?
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
Mr. Lim's dance moves were so fantastic they couldn't possibly fit behind one tiny smiley face.
FIRST_Parent
29-05-2013, 23:36
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
Glad to see you made it home safe Mr. Hoffman. ;)
jamierose
30-05-2013, 13:20
Is there a CAD file of this drivetrain available? The floating encoders and mounts sound like a really cool idea and I would like to take a look at them if I could.
We will probably upload our CAD to www.frc-designs.com at some point in the future. I would do it now, but unfortunately, I, and many other members of our team, are currently writing exams, so we don't have much time to sort out our CAD and upload it. I'll explain a bit about how our encoders are mounted.
As you can see in the picture, our CIMs are pretty close together. We made a small plastic piece with our 3-axis CNC router that looks like a rectangle with a semi-circle cut out on either side of it. These portions of a circle are made to fit perfectly around a CIM. There was a hole in the middle of the piece for an encoder to fit through so we could screw it on. We then slid the piece in between the CIMs. The friction was enough to keep the plastic piece in place.
We then used our usual method to connect the encoder to the shaft. On 610 we use a technique we borrowed from 188, which is using surgical tubing to connect an encoder to a shaft. We simply slide the encoder into one end of the surgical tubing and the shaft into the other end. It works extremely well and we have never had issues with it.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask or message me! Hopefully we'll be able to get that CAD uploaded soon.
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
Who is Mr. Lim?
rwkling1
30-05-2013, 19:43
[cdm-description=photo]38400[/cdm-description]
That is probably some of the neatest wiring I've ever seen...
DampRobot
30-05-2013, 21:27
That is probably some of the neatest wiring I've ever seen...
I bet you've never seen 254's electronics board...
rwkling1
30-05-2013, 21:34
I bet you've never seen 254's electronics board...
I have not! I'll check it out sometime
Andrew Schreiber
31-05-2013, 08:42
I bet you've never seen 254's electronics board...
Wow... someone can't compliment a robot without you saying "but 254's is better"...
DampRobot
31-05-2013, 10:10
Wow... someone can't compliment a robot without you saying "but 254's is better"...
Fair enough. I'm being too harsh. 610 has a great looking electronics board, but 254 is notoriously picky about having straight wiring, etc., so I suggested that he take a look at their electronics bard. In any case, you sure cant argue with 610's results.
FIRST Robotics Canada did a series of webinars during build season this year, and we did a quick walk-through of our electronics board on one of them. The goal was to show younger teams what a completed board could look like, and how things generally are wired:
Part 1:
http://youtu.be/wRDkPfUYakM
Part 2:
http://youtu.be/BN2ih23KMMc
I think our boards are pretty effective and fairly neat, and there are a lot of little details our students do which make a big difference, but aren't particularly flashy. I won't claim that our boards are the prettiest, or the neatest, but they work pretty well, and are some of the most straightforward I've had to troubleshoot and service. I also think our electronics build process is something that most every team in FRC can duplicate, even low-resource teams.
We tend to focus on things like labelling every single wire at both ends, putting zip-tied strain-relieved disconnects at every motor, speed controller and sensor with standardized connectors/pinouts and pigtail lengths to make replacing components a lot easier. These are the types of time-consuming nitty-gritty things that won't win you a lot of fans or awards, but it'll win you a lot of matches.
As far as electrical board go, I know both my students and I are very proud of the work they've done, but if you're looking for truly inspirational electrical boards, you should definitely take a look at this thread:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111976
...
We tend to focus on things like labelling every single wire at both ends, putting zip-tied strain-relieved disconnects at every motor, speed controller and sensor with standardized connectors/pinouts and pigtail lengths to make replacing components a lot easier. These are the types of time-consuming nitty-gritty things that won't win you a lot of fans or awards, but it'll win you a lot of matches.
...
This is the kind of stuff judges look for in the Quality award.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.