View Full Version : Team 2359 - 30 pt Climb Prototype
blackwood
10-02-2013, 01:26
We were able to successfully climb for 30 points the last couple of days... Still some tweaking to do and need to moving it to our drive base, but it is looking good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDV86oKXZXw
Kevin Sevcik
10-02-2013, 01:37
I don't know that I'd score my robot climbing video with "Landslide". Seems like a bad suggestion. Plus I prefer the Dixie Chicks version anyways.
That looks like a heartstopping climb at the moment. Especially executed across the field. Hope you guys get it a bit further from a landslide in the final version. I'll be interested to see how much use you get out of those bar crawling wheels you have on there.
blackwood
10-02-2013, 01:46
Landslide probably wasn't the best of choices, my wife suggested "Climb Every Mountain" from The Sound of Music, but I seem to not have much music on my new computer, and Landslide was the first song that popped up on Pandora, so I went with it. Obviously concerned about how well they can control the robot climb from across the field, the control is a bit sensitive at the moment. Hoping to do some tweaks to make the climbing a bit more robust. The team felt the bar rolling might be helpful if we don't get centered before we climb. While not evident in this video, they work nice.
JohnSchneider
10-02-2013, 01:51
While not expecting you to divulge your full strategy, I am curious, Do you have a method for scoring colored disks from the inside of the pyramid?
Andrew Lawrence
10-02-2013, 01:56
I like the mechanism, but it seems to take an entire match to climb to the top, and I don't see a frisbee scoring mechanism on there. I think a lot of robots will be able to outscore 30 points on discs alone during the entire match.
sanddrag
10-02-2013, 01:56
While not the most polished final product, this is by far my favorite design so far this season, and perhaps even extending years back. You really have constructed quite the contraption here. It's very clear that a LOT of careful time and thought was put into this, with a very logical engineer-like approach. Congratulations on making the climb, and best of luck to you in the competition!
nicholsjj
10-02-2013, 02:28
This is a great way to go "landsliding" up the pyramid. I would suggest that you try to climb closer to the corner where you could put out a catch bar to prevent you from swinging out so far into the middle.
I like the mechanism, but it seems to take an entire match to climb to the top, and I don't see a frisbee scoring mechanism on there. I think a lot of robots will be able to outscore 30 points on discs alone during the entire match.
How many 24th seeded teams do you believe will be able to score 10 high level goals?
Andrew Lawrence
10-02-2013, 02:51
How many 24th seeded teams do you believe will be able to score 10 high level goals?
Including Autonomous, a decent amount.
If teams score 2 discs in the top hoop in auton, that's 12 points. 18 left. That requires 3 top discs in teleop and a 10 point hang. I think any last place team can do that.
nicholsjj
10-02-2013, 02:59
Including Autonomous, a decent amount.
If teams score 2 discs in the top hoop in auton, that's 12 points. 18 left. That requires 3 top discs in teleop and a 10 point hang. I think any last place team can do that.
Even though an average alliance couldn't do that in rebound rumble? I can see your point but I think 30 points can be hard to overcome by an "average team". Not trying to be pessimistic, but team's had a tough time scoring baskets last year in a shorter goal with a game element that was relatively easy to pick up. I also think team's are not factoring in the vision of the drivers when lining up to shoot this year will be a lot more limited. Especially if a team climbs the far side of the pyramid early.
nathannfm
10-02-2013, 03:01
Beautiful mechanical design, but I'm curious what the motor pictured here http://screencloud.net/v/x6pW is for? I see what the curved wood(?) part is for but why have it spin?
Lateral motion if you start the climb off center is the only thing I can think of...
If you tell me it's part of a Frisbee shooter this may be my most favorite robot ever but I doubt it cause that looks like a couple 100 to 1 BaneBots box :P
Andrew Lawrence
10-02-2013, 03:03
Even though an average alliance couldn't do that in rebound rumble? I can see your point but I think 30 points can be hard to overcome by an "average team". Not trying to be pessimistic, but team's had a tough time scoring baskets last year in a shorter goal with a game element that was relatively easy to pick up. I also think team's are not factoring in the vision of the drivers when lining up to shoot this year will be a lot more limited. Especially if a team climbs the far side of the pyramid early.
I agree that many teams will fail at scoring a single point this season. However, I'm saying it's possible for any team to play a simple and smart strategy such as this one. But because of the teams who cannot play smart (and there always are some), this climber will be better than a lot of teams.
However, I still think a climbing-only robot can only go so far.
nicholsjj
10-02-2013, 03:08
I agree that many teams will fail at scoring a single point this season. However, I'm saying it's possible for any team to play a simple and smart strategy such as this one. But because of the teams who cannot play smart (and there always are some), this climber will be better than a lot of teams.
However, I still think a climbing-only robot can only go so far.
Definitely, I believe even a 6 point dumper in auton that can pick up off the floor with a 10 point hang could captain an alliance this year, but I think a 30 point climber with an 18 point auton is needed to win this year one with out the other is like sitting down to make a pb&j and realizing you forgot to buy bread.:o
teachsail
10-02-2013, 03:43
I think your climber is very impressive. You have prototyped a well engineered robot.
As far as strategy is concerned a robot that can consistently complete a 30 pt climb would make an excellent alliance partner. Three robots can not be shooting high goals simultaneously, and three robots dancing around the pyramid taking shots in turn while avoiding the opposition eats up the clock. An alliance of two good shooters and a 30 pt climber should be very competitive.
Ian Curtis
10-02-2013, 03:59
We were able to successfully climb for 30 points the last couple of days... Still some tweaking to do and need to moving it to our drive base, but it is looking good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDV86oKXZXw
Pass along my regards to the mentor intensely watching it climb, that intensity of expression is too rare.
I love the motion, way cool to watch!
I think a lot of robots will be able to outscore 30 points on discs alone during the entire match.
You wanna bet? :cool:
AllenGregoryIV
10-02-2013, 04:33
This is one of the best high wire acts I have seen things year. I can't wait for more climbers to be revealed.
Including Autonomous, a decent amount.
If teams score 2 discs in the top hoop in auton, that's 12 points. 18 left. That requires 3 top discs in teleop and a 10 point hang. I think any last place team can do that.
I think you are fatally optimistic.
I don't think there's ever been a season in which you could average out the last picked robot's performance and see them scoring 30+ points, or whatever ratio you want to use to account for differences in top scores.
Akash Rastogi
10-02-2013, 06:52
Great climber, do you guys have a method of stabilizing yourselves on the bars a bit more?
blackwood
10-02-2013, 08:28
Thanks for the many compliments. The kids have worked very hard thinking this thing out, and I believe they are just about there.
A couple of comments. The robot is not suppose to swing in the breeze like it did on the second bar, that was mainly operator error, (it did the right thing on the top bar) hopefully with some practice, some sensors, etc we will be less likely to let go too early and swing. Someone asked about the motor on the roller. This is to allow us to adjust the robot once we start climbing, just in case we haven't centered ourselves well enough for the top of the pyramid.
With respect to game strategy, and whether you can score more shooting vs. climbing, I'll leave that debate to someone else. The point of this video was to show off what our team has been able to accomplish. I'm not going to reveal what other things we have in the works, but suffice it to say, since the model you see in the video has 2x4s for "wheels" you are looking at a model not the robot.
Our team this year chose to make the end-game their priority, and I believe they have been successful in getting this accomplished. Something we haven't done that well at in our past.
Great Climber. You should be proud. This is what FIRST is all about. Determine your goals, engineer your solution, and make it work. This is an elegant design.
Plus I prefer the Dixie Chicks version anyways.
I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything this vehemently on Chief Delphi. :p It's all about Fleetwood Mac.
............Our team this year chose to make the end-game their priority, and I believe they have been successful in getting this accomplished. Something we haven't done that well at in our past.
If you finish off your robot as well as you have thought out your prototype, you will be a very popular team during alliance selections. Nice work!
All these climbers have so many different moving pieces. I can't wait for someone to post a climber with only one actuation.
All these climbers have so many different moving pieces. I can't wait for someone to post a climber with only one actuation.
We flip up the pyramid. Does that count?
Kevin Sevcik
10-02-2013, 12:59
I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything this vehemently on Chief Delphi. :p It's all about Fleetwood Mac.I'm only surprised it took to the second page for someone to disagree with me on this.We flip up the pyramid. Does that count?No, we're looking for LESS complicated here. Not more complicated and terrifying.
TonyRobertiello
10-02-2013, 22:09
While not expecting you to divulge your full strategy, I am curious, Do you have a method for scoring colored disks from the inside of the pyramid?
yes. whether it can be implemented in time is another story... :)
All these climbers have so many different moving pieces. I can't wait for someone to post a climber with only one actuation.We're working on that...
Including Autonomous, a decent amount.
If teams score 2 discs in the top hoop in auton, that's 12 points. 18 left. That requires 3 top discs in teleop and a 10 point hang. I think any last place team can do that.
I'm skewed by the regionals I've attended but at some events half of the robots chosen to be a 3rd alliance partner are incapable of scoring any game pieces effectively. They are primarily picked because of a strong drive train and usually just play defense, only scoring as a lap runner/bot on a bridge/bot behind the line/etc. when that year's game allows for it.
Just as an example, we were the 13th seed at Wisconsin last year (which was a relatively strong regional by OPR from what I remember). We did not get picked in alliance selection but came in as a substitute for the #1 alliance when a robot failed in the first quaterfinal match. I don't think we scored more than 24 points in a match by ourselves the entire regional, and had an OPR of 12.6 for the regional (which was very close in ranking to our actual qualification ranking, I believe around 15th for the event).
If you can consistently score 30 you're in line to be a lower seeded alliance captain at most events. Definitely a 1st round pick outside of the district systems.
To get back to this original thread, this climber is quite entertaining to watch. The rollers remind me of 330's bot in 2004, with the ability to crawl sideways on the bar to block opponents.
I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything this vehemently on Chief Delphi. :p It's all about Fleetwood Mac.
"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Karthik again."
Cool lookin' climb, guys.
Impressive, if a bit heart-stopping. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this up close at Kansas City.
runneals
11-02-2013, 01:20
Thanks for the many compliments. The kids have worked very hard thinking this thing out, and I believe they are just about there.
A couple of comments. The robot is not suppose to swing in the breeze like it did on the second bar, that was mainly operator error, (it did the right thing on the top bar) hopefully with some practice, some sensors, etc we will be less likely to let go too early and swing. Someone asked about the motor on the roller. This is to allow us to adjust the robot once we start climbing, just in case we haven't centered ourselves well enough for the top of the pyramid.
With respect to game strategy, and whether you can score more shooting vs. climbing, I'll leave that debate to someone else. The point of this video was to show off what our team has been able to accomplish. I'm not going to reveal what other things we have in the works, but suffice it to say, since the model you see in the video has 2x4s for "wheels" you are looking at a model not the robot.
Our team this year chose to make the end-game their priority, and I believe they have been successful in getting this accomplished. Something we haven't done that well at in our past.
Something that makes me smile about your video is how the robot is designed. I can tell that the mentors didn't help out much with the design, leaving the students to do most of the design. I have LOVED the concept of student-based learning ever since I started FLL in 06. While many teams use aluminum and have the mentors help with the design and machining of parts, it appears as if the students designed and built the robot themselves! When I think of FIRST, THIS is what I think of! :) Tell the kids to keep up the great work!
sanddrag
11-02-2013, 01:53
Something that makes me smile about your video is how the robot is designed. I can tell that the mentors didn't help out much with the design, leaving the students to do most of the design. I have LOVED the concept of student-based learning ever since I started FLL in 06. While many teams use aluminum and have the mentors help with the design and machining of parts, it appears as if the students designed and built the robot themselves! When I think of FIRST, THIS is what I think of! :) Tell the kids to keep up the great work!You must tell where you got that nifty pair of glasses that lets you see such revelations about another team without setting foot in their workshop. The dead horse has been beaten. We are not going to start the student vs. mentor built debate again. Teams will work however they please, and it's not your place to judge or interpret one way or another without getting to know them personally.
blackwood
19-02-2013, 01:59
Here is another video of our climb, after we had assembled it to the rolling robot. We were able to make it up in less than 2 minutes. No we don't have a dumper, but we may have one for autonomous...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYnjLxE4vmQ
The music was my wife's suggestion.
Keefe2471
19-02-2013, 02:58
I like this very original idea, and the music... Good Job and Good luck
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.