QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!!

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Posted by Andy Grady.

Other on team in limbo from in limbo sponsored by in limbo.

Posted on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST



Hi all, time again for the question of the week, enjoy...

Question 10/15/00: Do you think the main stage in florida should be set up in a different way. For instance should the seating arangements be changed, should a tent be put around it, etc....?

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Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 10/15/2000 8:06 AM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



: Hi all, time again for the question of the week, enjoy...

: Question 10/15/00: Do you think the main stage in florida should be set up in a different way. For instance should the seating arangements be changed, should a tent be put around it, etc....?

Considering the size that the main stage has to be, it would most likely be more trouble than it was worth to have the entire thing(stage, bleachers, etc.) enclosed in a VERY large tent...

Also, I know it has been brought up in the past of having a more 'stadium-style' seating arrangement for the main stage. At the same time, however, it has to be considered that in the interest of being able to continue the matches without damage to the robots in the event of less-than-perfect weather, it is important that the playing field area still be adequately covered. Because of this requirement, it would be very hard to set up a different style of seating arrangement where all spectators would be able to see.

What about this though....with the three fields that were in the smaller tent this year, what if they were to have the entry for the robots at one end of the tent rather than along a side, then have designated paths behind the bleachers from the entry point to an opening in the bleachers for a specific playing field. While I'm sure there would have to be a few traffic control problems with this setup, I'm envisioning that it would allow bleachers to be set up on both sides of the playing field, rather than one side being dedicated for team queuing like it was this past year...

Nate

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Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Other on team #459, , from University of Florida/Eastside High School and .

Posted on 10/15/2000 1:49 PM MST


In Reply to: Would it be nice? Yes...Is it possible? well.... posted by Nate Smith on 10/15/2000 8:06 AM MST:



Well, maybe, but then the smaller tents would have to be bigger. There was definitely more space on the side where the bleachers were than there was on the side set up for team queing. I doubt if there was enough room on that side for more bleachers.

What I think they should do, is instead of having indoor fields, just have covered fields/seating. I live in Florida, and the main problem people have outside is being in the sun. If instead of having indoor air conditioned fields, they could set up a normal field, with covered seating, so you wont be in the sun, you'd still be outside though, but that is easy to do, as long as you're not in the direct sunlight. Then, for the same amount of money as an air conditioned field, they could have a field with much more seating.

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Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 10/15/2000 1:57 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Would it be nice? Yes...Is it possible? well.... posted by Jason Rudolph on 10/15/2000 1:49 PM MST:



I think they're worried about wind getting under the canopy and taking the whole thing for a romp through several thousand customer's cars in the Epcot parking lot. That's why the tents have sides, IMHO.

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Posted by David Kelso.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #131, C.H.A.O.S.-, from Central High School and OSRAM SYLVANIA/ Fleet .

Posted on 10/15/2000 10:20 AM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



Something really needs to be done. I remember the chants last year during the playoffs 'move the cameras' 'we can't see'...and this was from the people right in front of the stage. The 'stand' for team photographers was a good improvement. But in reality, I thank NASA, NICK and GM. With out their video, I would not know what happened during most of the finals matches!!! (Of course those camera people were the ones in the way.)

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Posted by Meg Z..

Student on team #349, Robahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Co..

Posted on 10/15/2000 12:53 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by David Kelso on 10/15/2000 10:20 AM MST:



: Something really needs to be done. I remember the chants last year during the playoffs 'move the cameras' 'we can't see'...and this was from the people right in front of the stage

I was one of the many to be totally blocked by the 'official' camera people...The problem with their film is that, well, why watch it on the screen when you can watch it in real life, except that they're in front of you all the time so you have no options. The official camera people should be behind the field rather than in front of it, because otherwise they're nothing but a nuisance. We're there to watch and tape our robots playing, not camera people's behinds!!!

Meg :-)
349

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Posted by nick237.

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

Posted on 10/15/2000 7:06 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Meg Z. on 10/15/2000 12:53 PM MST:



The last few games were a shambles, I for one was looking forward to viewing the finals free and clear of multi Butts parading across the front of the stage.
I feel that its important to televise the games to the world but not at the viewing expense of the teams that have paid for and been working a year for the privilege of seeing the finals uninterrupted.
If FIRST wants to have the media there to cover the games then the cameras should be placed on the back side of the stage, think of the view they would have with the Robots in the for ground and thousands of screaming team fans in the back ground ' wow what a sight '.
Cameras with telephoto lenses could be placed in the stands at the back and they could even mount a camera on a moving cable above the arena ( they do at football games ).
Next year if the view is blocked lets shout ' MOVE YOUR A** ' not ' WE CANT SEE '
nick


: : Something really needs to be done. I remember the chants last year during the playoffs 'move the cameras' 'we can't see'...and this was from the people right in front of the stage

: I was one of the many to be totally blocked by the 'official' camera people...The problem with their film is that, well, why watch it on the screen when you can watch it in real life, except that they're in front of you all the time so you have no options. The official camera people should be behind the field rather than in front of it, because otherwise they're nothing but a nuisance. We're there to watch and tape our robots playing, not camera people's behinds!!!

: Meg :-)
: 349

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Posted by Meg Z..

Student on team #349, Robahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Co..

Posted on 10/16/2000 5:32 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by nick237 on 10/15/2000 7:06 PM MST:




: Next year if the view is blocked lets shout ' MOVE YOUR A** ' not ' WE CANT SEE '

I will be right there shouting with you!
Meg :-)
349

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Posted by Andy Grady.

Other on team in limbo from in limbo sponsored by in limbo.

Posted on 10/15/2000 7:19 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



Yeah, its pretty bad when you were standing right in the front row, next to the stage and still couldn't see the robots because of the media people. Not fun, now imagine being a few rows back, when about a hundred people were in your way, along with the media people! Ok, I know i sound like a broken record, but there has to be a way to pull off stadium seating of some sort on the main stage, HELL WE ARE ENGINEERS, WE ARE PAID TO DO THIS!!! Any suggestions? =)
Peace out,
Andy Grady

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Posted by Mike Kulibaba.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater-Raynham Regional and Depuy, a Johnson and Johnson Company.

Posted on 10/15/2000 9:34 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



I know some of you or most of you aren't big into wrestling but maybe if we put the stage in the middle of the stadium and put chairs around it, it could solve some of the problem. Also elevate the stage a few feet so the camera people can stand on the floor at the bottom of the stage and they won't really be in anyone's way. you would still need a large stadium with seats on all 4 sides to get eveyone to be able to sit there and watch but just like at any event the lower seats are going to be better then the higher seats. We could also put a big screen above everything so people who were up high could see the game if they can't see it from their seats. I know it doesn't sound too logical but it's a thought... If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can expand on it clearly please do. I'm not too articulate.

Kuli

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Posted by David Kelly.

Student on team #234, Cyber Blue, from Perry Meridian H. S. and Rolls-Royce.

Posted on 10/16/2000 2:25 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: what about seating like that at a wreslting event posted by Mike Kulibaba on 10/15/2000 9:34 PM MST:



Good Idea

Having seating like a wrestling event would be awesome. There would hardly be a bad seat in the house. If you can't see you could just look over to the Titan Tron and watch the action. The camera crews wouldn't be in our way and so you could get better video footage and photos.

David Kelly
Team Captain
#234

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Posted by David Kelly.

Student on team #234, Cyber Blue, from Perry Meridian H. S. and Rolls-Royce.

Posted on 10/16/2000 2:26 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: what about seating like that at a wreslting event posted by Mike Kulibaba on 10/15/2000 9:34 PM MST:



Good Idea

Having seating like a wrestling event would be awesome. There would hardly be a bad seat in the house. If you can't see you could just look over to the Titan Tron and watch the action. The camera crews wouldn't be in our way and so you could get better video footage and photos.

David Kelly
Team Captain
#234

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Posted by Jessica Boucher.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.

Posted on 10/16/2000 12:59 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



Oh, geez, this was certainly a doozie of a question, you seem to have struck a chord among all of us...but reading all this is strange, because I come from a different perspective.

My official title was 'national student public relations assistant'. The job was offered up to all FIRST-students in one of the team updates; for numerous reasons I jumped at the chance. This meant that I was to volunteer as much time as possible during Nats in the media tent, instead of hanging out with my team. I was helping out about a dozen students with the same title making faxes, walking around guests, coordinating media events, signing out photo passes to teams, and watching the media platform. We were considered crew.

Now, I know people were complaining about the problem with the media crews. As far as I can remember, there were crews from ABC, NBC, Associated Press, Nick & CNN there. This is more media than we have ever had.

I urge you to remember that FIRST is a growing and changing association. This was the first time that so much media came, and as prepared as we were, noone was expecting the things that happened. We weren't expecting the Nick crews to be flooded so badly by kids that they couldn't do their job and had to be given Crew shirts so they would blend in. We weren't expecting the CNN crews wanting to do an interview in front of the FIRST flag, thus pushing teams away that wanted their picture taken 'right then and no other time but then' (even though we told them that they could wait 5-10 minutes or wait in line on the other side of the flag). We weren't expecting the ABC crews to have a case of 'wandering fever' and leave their tripods all over the place. But, we made the best with what we had.

My point; isn't the reason why FIRST has team forums and encourages feedback is to have the chance to find out what not to do and how to fix it? Yes, this season had more media than ever; yes, we tried a few different things to create a medium between media coverage and team viewing (hence the reason for the media platform and team photo passes). Yes, things weren't great, but they will get better.

Its give and take, people. The crowd sparks the attention and the attention creates larger crowds. And isn't more media what most of us really want? This was the first year of trying something new and I'm sorry viewing wasn't that great, but I believe that it will be handled by FIRST for next year, if not figured out already.

-Jess Boucher, #237

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Posted by nick237.

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

Posted on 10/16/2000 9:25 PM MST


In Reply to: A different perspective... posted by Jessica Boucher on 10/16/2000 12:59 PM MST:



Sorry Jess. I dont agree. The news media are there for us, we are not there for them, and if you think about it I dont recall hearing or seeing any footage from any news media this year about the FIRST competition on any T.V. station ever.
You have to remember that I work in the news media circle and know that some of the most obnoxious selfish people any where are camera men and news reporters. There is a simple matter of courtesy, and the camera people didn't give a 'hoot' if we the people could see or not see, and if the crowd had rioted then they would have reported a different news story???
Remember that if you need news coverage in a hurry then produce a dead body and they the media ) race out of the wood work.
When the Olympic games are being held do you see camera men standing under the pole vault or in the center of the hundred meters finals. courtesy Jess, courtesy



: Oh, geez, this was certainly a doozie of a question, you seem to have struck a chord among all of us...but reading all this is strange, because I come from a different perspective.

: My official title was 'national student public relations assistant'. The job was offered up to all FIRST-students in one of the team updates; for numerous reasons I jumped at the chance. This meant that I was to volunteer as much time as possible during Nats in the media tent, instead of hanging out with my team. I was helping out about a dozen students with the same title making faxes, walking around guests, coordinating media events, signing out photo passes to teams, and watching the media platform. We were considered crew.

: Now, I know people were complaining about the problem with the media crews. As far as I can remember, there were crews from ABC, NBC, Associated Press, Nick & CNN there. This is more media than we have ever had.

: I urge you to remember that FIRST is a growing and changing association. This was the first time that so much media came, and as prepared as we were, noone was expecting the things that happened. We weren't expecting the Nick crews to be flooded so badly by kids that they couldn't do their job and had to be given Crew shirts so they would blend in. We weren't expecting the CNN crews wanting to do an interview in front of the FIRST flag, thus pushing teams away that wanted their picture taken 'right then and no other time but then' (even though we told them that they could wait 5-10 minutes or wait in line on the other side of the flag). We weren't expecting the ABC crews to have a case of 'wandering fever' and leave their tripods all over the place. But, we made the best with what we had.

: My point; isn't the reason why FIRST has team forums and encourages feedback is to have the chance to find out what not to do and how to fix it? Yes, this season had more media than ever; yes, we tried a few different things to create a medium between media coverage and team viewing (hence the reason for the media platform and team photo passes). Yes, things weren't great, but they will get better.

: Its give and take, people. The crowd sparks the attention and the attention creates larger crowds. And isn't more media what most of us really want? This was the first year of trying something new and I'm sorry viewing wasn't that great, but I believe that it will be handled by FIRST for next year, if not figured out already.

: -Jess Boucher, #237

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Posted by Jessica Boucher.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.

Posted on 10/17/2000 12:45 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: A different perspective... posted by nick237 on 10/16/2000 9:25 PM MST:



: Sorry Jess. I dont agree. The news media are there for us, we are not there for them, and if you think about it I dont recall hearing or seeing any footage from any news media this year about the FIRST competition on any T.V. station ever.

Ok, first of all, what I meant was that FIRST, like it or not, is a human-interest story. Because we are all there, doing something positive, the media came to see it. Their coverage, in turn, is seen by people that know nothing about FIRST, people that might find out more information and be future FIRST-a-holics like the rest of us. Plus, most (if not all) of the footage taken there was used either that day (therefore we wouldn't see it), or is being saved for something later.


: You have to remember that I work in the news media circle and know that some of the most obnoxious selfish people any where are camera men and news reporters. There is a simple matter of courtesy, and the camera people didn't give a 'hoot' if we the people could see or not see, and if the crowd had rioted then they would have reported a different news story???

Yes, I know you work in the media and I agree that they can be selfish and obnoxious, just as everyone else can be. And if they're so obnoxious, then they're not going to be curteous. But what happened happened, and though we didnt like it, that doesnt mean nothing's being done to fix it. I'm sure FIRST is working on something to alleviate the problems.

-Jess Boucher

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Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #246, Blue Light Special, from John D. O'Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 10/16/2000 1:39 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



How 'bout less the main stage.. and more all the stages?

As Andy and others know from our discussion at dinner the other night-- I say it was a nice try with the tents and indoor stages.. but I think so much was lost that Disney/FIRST should save the money and go back to the old ways of having everything outside...

Yes, I've sat in the blistering sun for hours.. I've sweat, I've burnt...
To me.. that's part of what makes it...

The inside was small.. dark.. teams were getting scooted around.. sit here, come in there, go out this way, don't hold that up, sit down..etc.. people were just hanging inside cause it was AC-ed and then teams couldn't get good spots to see or were being asked to sit when their teams were playing, etc... so much of the match excitement was lost.. and 3 fields going right there at once took attention away from each match..

If everything was back outside we could compromise to get the best of both worlds.. other than the Main Stage (Einstein).. the other stages could be lower so that people doing scouting/strategy can see easier without being waaaay up in the stands.. and the cover of the stages/fields could be extended as to shade the first few rows of ground seating so people could be there to be out of the sun...

this way-- more teams would stick outside and bring back the 'party atmosphere' that once existed.. outside if people are running around, dancing, cheering and having a blast, no one's complaining whereas it was often a problem inside...

As someone said at the team forum... there's just some 'feeling' about playing outside on the stage in front of everyone... some teams only had one shot if any to do that... if all the stages are back outside with the stands.. you get that feel all over again without having to worry about trying to get every team scheduled on Einstein...

I thought so much was lost having it all inside... if anything.. extend the pits more so more people can be in that airconditioning if that's peoples main concern..

it's Florida.. it's Disney.. it's suuuuppposed to be hot and sunny.. :-)

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 10/16/2000 3:35 PM MST


In Reply to: Bring it all back outside! posted by colleen on 10/16/2000 1:39 PM MST:



While I respect my fine colleague from New England, I respectfully disagree about the inside/outside issue.

In my opinion, FIRST should go the other way if anything, and put ALL the stages indoors, saving the main stage for the Finals only.

Yes, there could be improvements to the set up that they had indoors, but overall, I believe that the indoor arenas were a major step forward.

My two cents.

Joe J.

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Posted by Lora Knepper.

Other on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NASA, Mathsoft, Solidworks, Analog Devices.

Posted on 10/16/2000 7:05 PM MST


In Reply to: I rise in opposition... posted by Joe Johnson on 10/16/2000 3:35 PM MST:



: In my opinion, FIRST should go the other way if anything, and put ALL the stages indoors, saving the main stage for the Finals only.

*shudders*

There's a nightmare I hate to imagine! Those 3 indoor fields were a nightmare, and I didn't have to deal with the viewing side of things.

As a driver, having the 3 indoor fields (on which my previous team played on exclusively) was a pain to put lightly. There was so much noise from the other 2 fields, it was difficult to tell what sounds were for your match, and what were from others around you. Also, it made it near impossible to communicate with coaches, so forget talking to your alliance for on the fly strategy changes. Also the lighting was horrible at times, making some viewing difficult...

My team complained about the viewing, and I know that I'd have to agree with them on the times that I was out scouting or cheering for friends. I enjoyed sitting in the sun during the day, though maybe if they did add a bit to the pit tent for those that need to get out of the sun for a bit like Colleen said. In anycase I PLEA to FIRST to please bring Nationals outdoors again!!!

Just my 2 cents...

Lora

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Posted by Mike Kulibaba.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater-Raynham Regional and Depuy, a Johnson and Johnson Company.

Posted on 10/16/2000 7:52 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals Outdoors Again Please!! posted by Lora Knepper on 10/16/2000 7:05 PM MST:



I have to agree with Joe that I think the 3 arenas they had inside were a big step forward and it was a good trial and error period. But what if they make that tent wider on all sides and put seating on all 4 sides of each arena. If you have seating on all 4 sides it would allow for more people to watch the event and not be so crowded. But they would need alot of seats on each side. I don't know how many but I think it could work. but I enjoyed being inside, it was crowded and there wasn't enough seats but I liked it better.

Kuli Team 88

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Posted by Bill Beatty.

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

Posted on 10/18/2000 8:58 AM MST


In Reply to: I'm on Joe's side posted by Mike Kulibaba on 10/16/2000 7:52 PM MST:



How about moving the competition to a nearby indoor stadium. I would rather have a comfortable, good viewing arrangement at the expense of convenience for accessibility to the park. A pit tent and some auxiliary tents would be required, but all the viewing could be in the stadium or in air-conditioned tents with the semis and finals and awards in the stadium. Disney could apply their resources to the people moving problem instead of building a million dollar outdoor arena. The competition should take precedence over the park.

While we are on this subject, another suggestion is to have both semi-finals on the main stage. There is much dead time between matches and all of the final four should compete on the main stage. It would add very little, if any, time to the event.

Bill B

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Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 10/18/2000 6:03 PM MST


In Reply to: Here Is A Far Out Idea posted by Bill Beatty on 10/18/2000 8:58 AM MST:



This post is much longer than I had originally planned when starting to write it, but please bear with me...

As people have probably noticed in the past, I'm all in favor of keeping the competition on site at Disney, for various reasons. And while the first two years I was at nationals, I did enjoy the time spent out in the park, last year I worked so closely on the scouting system all weekend that the only time I was able to venture into the park outside of the wrap party was for a short time on Friday night, then Sunday, when my team hit Typhoon Lagoon. Even so, I think that it is in the best interest of all involved(us, FIRST, Disney, and all those who don't yet know about FIRST) to keep the competition where it is...now for the comments on Bill's post to explain why I think this...

: How about moving the competition to a nearby indoor stadium. I would rather have a comfortable, good viewing arrangement at the expense of convenience for accessibility to the park. A pit tent and some auxiliary tents would be required, but all the viewing could be in the stadium or in air-conditioned tents with the semis and finals and awards in the stadium.

The question is, how many places would allow the type of setup that Disney sets up out in their parking lot? If you consider all that is involved(some of which is not necessarily needed, such as the carpeting), from the tents themselves, to the audio/visual equipment, to the electrical supply and air conditioning equipment, as well as the security necessary to protect all this equipment at night as well as the weeks before the event while it is being set up, what other location would allow us(or in this case, Disney & FIRST) to take up such a large portion of their parking lot to set up this equipment weeks in advance?

: Disney could apply their resources to the people moving problem instead of building a million dollar outdoor arena.

Even with the massive number of busses that Disney operates on a daily basis, I see transporting us from Disney to an off site arena being a problem. One of the nice things about being on Disney property for both the lodging and the competition is the fact that if something was left behind in a hotel room, just hop on the next bus from EPCOT back to your hotel, get what you need, then hop on a bus back. If we were to move off site for the competition, the transportation schedule is almost guaranteed to not be nearly as convenient as it is now.

: The competition should take precedence over the park.

While I think that for just about all of us, even through the complaints we have about the setup of the competition at Disney, deep down enjoy it, the question still remains: is the fact that we are at Disney solely for us? Putting aside all the facts about what Disney provides for us directly in our hotel package and the setup at the arena, what about the publicity FIRST is getting thanks to its location? I became aware of this my very first year with the competition, when I decided to be our team's mascot(if anybody that was around in '98 remembers the tall guy wandering around in the long black robe & hood, that was me.) I was in full costume and headed over to the Liberty Inn @ EPCOT for lunch one day, and took the boat across the 'lake.' On the way, I got to talking with a few people sitting on the boat who asked me about the various buttons that i was wearing(somehow, they overlooked the fact that I was dressed like it was Halloween =) Anyway, they seemed genuinely interested in the competition, and said they might stop by on their way out of EPCOT for the day. Now, whether they did or not I can't tell you, but the exposure that FIRST gets by having the competition where they do is most likely greater than any of us imagine. Yes, we are the largest event Disney hosts, but how do our numbers compare to the thousands of other guests they have during the 3 days of the competition? Out of those thousands, how many actually take the initiative to stop in and see what is going on in the massive tents outside EPCOT? Of those that don't stop, how many see it in the event calendars that Disney hands out and make an effort to find out more information later? Or, how many are watching the news when they get back home and see footage of the competition and think, 'hey, so that's what that was...maybe I should see if there are any schools around here involved with that?'

With all that said, yes, I realize the heat can be a problem at times(I definitely know I realized that when I was in costume back in '98.) However, I don't feel that a move is the way to solve the problem, for many more reasons than just the convenient access to the park at the end of the day...

Nate

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 10/18/2000 6:36 PM MST


In Reply to: Competition @ EPCOT - For us or for others? & misc comments posted by Nate Smith on 10/18/2000 6:03 PM MST:



Nate & Bill,

You both make a lot of good points. I am really torn about this one.

I know that Disney is a big draw for a lot of kids that otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with a robotic competition.

But at the same time, Disney is a net negative for the participants who are serious about competing or for even a fan intent on watching the event.

As to where to host the event if not at Disney, I have stated often on this forum that I believe that there are easily 10 and perhaps as many as 50 cities in the USA with the facilities to host the FIRST Nationals without hardly breaking a sweat. Transportation, hotels, compition venue, etc. Believe me, all these issues are difficult but nowhere near impossible to solve.

To my way of thinking, the only issue is whether FIRST WANTS to stay in a parking lot at Disney not that it HAS to stay there.

This is for Dean, Woodie, David Brown & the FIRST Board to decide.

Joe J.

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Posted by Jessica Boucher.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.

Posted on 10/18/2000 7:41 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Joe Johnson on 10/18/2000 6:36 PM MST:



: To my way of thinking, the only issue is whether FIRST WANTS to stay in a parking lot at Disney not that it HAS to stay there.

: This is for Dean, Woodie, David Brown & the FIRST Board to decide.

I agree. Its FIRST's decision. Though I do like using the term of 'taking a parking lot and putting up a paradise', if you know what song I'm talking about. ::grin::

-Jess Boucher

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 10/18/2000 8:00 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Jessica Boucher on 10/18/2000 7:41 PM MST:



I doubt that Joni Mitchell would be pleased about the song she made famous being corrupted to become a song about a robot competition held at Walt Disney World.

While I am no tree hugger and I make no claim to understanding those who are, I suspect that neither technology nor Disney represent the ideals that Joni Mitchell was trying to address in that classic song about 'urban sprawl' (though that tag line hand not yet been invented -- perhaps by Al Gore?)

Ah well, I am amused even if Joni, Al & the Gang are not.

Joe J.

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Posted by Mike Kulibaba.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater-Raynham Regional and Depuy, a Johnson and Johnson Company.

Posted on 10/18/2000 11:20 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Joe Johnson on 10/18/2000 6:36 PM MST:



I agree with Joe and Jessica that this is FIRST's choice of what happens with the nationals, but Disney is a magical place where dreams come true. and Disney puts a whole bunch of money into it but also gets alot out of it.. they get a huge tax break by putting up a tent with A/C, stages, seats, etc. They get 25,000 people to buy tickets to go to their parks who wouldn't be there if the competition was held some where esle. I can't even begin to imagine how much money they make on all the water and soda and food that they sell to us and other people in the competition area. We all know the seating isn't the best and the weather can be bad to terrible at times, But maybe Disney and FIRST can fix that. I don't see FIRST changing the national competition to somewhere else anytime soon. I'd miss seeing those same people sing the National Anthem before the opening ceremonies, I'd miss seeing those doves fly off into the sky. I'd miss the show Disney puts on after the awards ceremony. I think if you get out of Disney you get out of the magical atmosphere that it brings. I don't think anyone else would have two guys who could hand paint pictures of Dean and Woody on stage. We'll see what happens, I think this is one of the most debatable questions. or maybe second behind which is better Coke or pepsi.

Kuli Team 88

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Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Other on team #459, , from University of Florida/Eastside High School and .

Posted on 10/19/2000 5:41 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Mike Kulibaba on 10/18/2000 11:20 PM MST:



: I think this is one of the most debatable questions. or maybe second behind which is better Coke or pepsi.

: Kuli Team 88

Don't you mean which is better coke or dew???????

Jason

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Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 10/19/2000 6:32 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Joe Johnson on 10/18/2000 6:36 PM MST:



: Nate & Bill,

: You both make a lot of good points. I am really torn about this one.

: I know that Disney is a big draw for a lot of kids that otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with a robotic competition.

I really believe this is the main reason FIRST stays there.

: But at the same time, Disney is a net negative for the participants who are serious about competing or for even a fan intent on watching the event.

Amen to that.

: As to where to host the event if not at Disney, I have stated often on this forum that I believe that there are easily 10 and perhaps as many as 50 cities in the USA with the facilities to host the FIRST Nationals without hardly breaking a sweat. Transportation, hotels, compition venue, etc. Believe me, all these issues are difficult but nowhere near impossible to solve.

Exactly true. Orlando's only plus is cheap airfare from everywhere. But then again, that's a plus for Chicago, too.

: To my way of thinking, the only issue is whether FIRST WANTS to stay in a parking lot at Disney not that it HAS to stay there.

Wants to, I'm sure.

: This is for Dean, Woodie, David Brown & the FIRST Board to decide.

: Joe J.

They can't have any input on this decision? Organizations like that eventually fail, and none of us wants that. There are alternatives, and they need to revisit what they are doing occasionally, as we all do. To have a vibrant, dynamic program, no change should be excluded, and nothing should be taken for granted.

As for Disney, I am a member of the loyal opposition. I'm repeating myself here, but the Orange County Convention Center is a mile or two from Disney's entrance, is a huge building that could hold the whole competion. As a plus, proximity to Disney (and OTHER fun places like KSC) is still there.

Sam

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Posted by Bill Beatty.

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

Posted on 10/20/2000 8:50 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 10/19/2000 6:32 PM MST:



Orange County Convention Center? I figured there was some facility close by.

Move 20,000 people? Donald Duck soup for Disney. They are doing it now from the hotels to the arena.

Loss of passerby interest? You are kidding yourself. Most of the few curiosity seekers have to be lost because of the poor venue.

The park is an attraction to the students? Of course, and to us adults also. The massive Disney transportation system could keep it close.

I am in favor of keeping it at Disney, but the open air stadium has got to go. It seems to me something like the OCCC that Sam suggests is a doable and super solution! The Best of Both Worlds.

Bill B

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Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Other on team #459, , from University of Florida/Eastside High School and .

Posted on 10/22/2000 11:42 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Disney is a mixed bag posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 10/19/2000 6:32 PM MST:



Well, you're right about the size, and location of the orange county convention center. However, I don't know if FIRST could get the convention center for a number of reasons. Disney gives FIRST that whole
venue to use, because they can, and they still make a bunch of money from the whole event from people staying in their hotels, going to the parks, and on concessions.

In contrast, the OCCC makes all their money by conventions renting out their space to use, I DOUBT that they would just give up the amount of space that FIRST needs for Nationals. Also, they wouldn't make any money off hotels, etc. Only from concessions, and that would not be enough. Another thing is that since it is such a large facility, it is almost always being used to some extent, which would add to the problem of getting the facility for at least a week.

Jason

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Posted by Andy Grady.

Other on team in limbo from in limbo sponsored by in limbo.

Posted on 10/16/2000 9:27 PM MST


In Reply to: Bring it all back outside! posted by colleen on 10/16/2000 1:39 PM MST:



Now don't get me wrong, im definately a sunshine person, but i have come up with this equation from my experiences...Florida + Heat + Sunshine + Strategy = Bad news...Im sorry, but my mind was made up the moment I got sun poisoning in 98 when i spent the whole day out in the sun doing strategy, I don't like that outdoor stage. Sure I love the party atmosphere, and all that, but im sorry id rather be inside a cool tent watching matches in a stadium view rather than out in that hot sun again feeling like total crap! Also, ive always said that the feeling of competition inside a gym or arena is much more electrifying than being outside in Florida. Something about all the people, in one small place, yelling and cheering still gives me chills. If they could accomplish bringing this feeling to Nats, it would be perfect.
peace,
Andy Grady

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Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #246, Blue Light Special, from John D. O'Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 10/16/2000 9:47 PM MST


In Reply to: I love the sun, but...... posted by Andy Grady on 10/16/2000 9:27 PM MST:



I thought once like Kuli and Dr.J that the inside-ness was a step forward.. but then started thinking about what some many people are missing out on and i really really really would make the move that we take it back outside and just add more shaded areas for those of you who get sun-stroke..

let's put it this way.. I've been on stage in the gym in NH, the one in Jersey, and UTC Meadows, on the old Florida set-up and the one last year...

And Andy man, I hate to disagree.. but NOTHING compares to the experience of driving on Einstein, NOTHING.. no gyms.. no gold medal matches.. and even the matches on the outdoor field were so much better compared to the ones indoor.. it makes your team feel in the spotlight.. like a star.. no matter how the match goes.. it's just cool... and the crowd was always livier and happier it seemed.. and plus, as Lora pointed out.. inside was just crazy for trying to communicate with your team or the other teams.. I actually got hit in the ankle by a robot and slit my ankle open because of inability to communicate and the bad setup of the lighting.. we asked them to let us on the field to grab our robot during practice.. and they did but because of the glare the couldn't judge where we were standing and hit me right in the ankle with the corner of their robot, not good.. but they couldn't hear their coach saying to stop either...

Basically.. the experience out side is great, I really really think.. and I HAVE sat in the sun all day doing strategy.. but if you take care of yourself, wear sunscreen, and drink lots of water, you'll be fine.. like i said.. extend the pit, add more shaded seating, and extend the top of the stage to shade the front rows for ideal strategy viewing...

It can be the best of both worlds.. and not mention save a heck of a lot of cash for setting up that AC.. can we say SCHOLARSHIP MONEY?! or maybe reduced registration fees??

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Posted by Raul.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 10/17/2000 6:40 PM MST


In Reply to: Bring it all back outside! posted by colleen on 10/16/2000 1:39 PM MST:



How about 3 separate tents indoors with seating on 2 or 3 sides just like a big regional? Haven't I heard dozens of people say how much more 'intimate' the regionals are?

What if we get our way and the national is broken up into 4 divisions? Then, 4 separate stages (3 indoor + Einstein) would make sense!

My two cents.

Raul

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Posted by Justin.

Other on team Blue Lightning Alumni Association from RWU sponsored by FIRST-A-holics Anonymous.

Posted on 10/16/2000 11:06 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



Hello Everyone,

Just in case this debate isn't intersting enough I just thought I'd stir it up a little. Everyone keeps talking about how to change the areana, get stages into A/C and about the scorching sun. Well...why not remove the sun from the equation...if we launch a really big shade into space, oh wait sorry...seriously though if we change the venue to someplace like hmmm I dunno the Carolinas (still warm enough in april to be out side there but not get killed by extreme heat.) There may be other venues as well Cali for example? I don't know. Just a thought ;-)

-Justin

P.S. I'm actually in favor of a very large outdoor setup @ Disney ;)

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Posted by Matt Leese.

Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Rochester Institute of Technology.

Posted on 10/17/2000 5:19 AM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



Number one reason to be inside:

Pasty and pale engineers and college students do not deal well with being out in the big blue room.

Matt

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Posted by Tom.

Other on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and NYPRO.

Posted on 10/18/2000 9:57 PM MST


In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 10/15/2000 7:35 AM MST:



the main stage can stay outside, but please just have stadium steating!!!! You can't see anything from the ground seats and the stadium seat were to far away it was hard to see. Maybe have an open tent with stadium seating on all sides. Just a thought.

Tom