BOM Rules?

[jds2001]

I've looked through the rulebook, and can't find an answer. While it's very clear that KoP items don't count towards our costing considerations on the BOM, do they need to be included at all? IOW, do I need to account for all the CIM motors, RSL, and whatnot? Or can I leave those out and simply list non-KoP items?

[vhcook]

In recent years, they have asked for KOP items to be included at 0 cost. I haven't seen anything specific this year, but between FIRST Choice and the base KOP, it would probably be helpful to the inspectors if you did include everything. When in doubt, Q&A...

[Dancin103]

I haven't seen anything specific either, but we have always included KOP items.

[FrankJ]

BOM typically include everything by definition. Regardless of cost.

From the bill of material read me tab

"Any item that was included in the Rookie KOP but not the Veteran KOP should be considered a KOP item and indicated on the BOM. Costs are to be recorded per Section 4.1.3 of The Robot, which can be found at http://frc-manual.usfirst.org."

Implication there is you include used KOP items on the bill of material.

There a few Q&A answers that also imply KOP items are to be on the KOP

[Squillo]

One more BOM question. I saw an answer in the Q&A that I believe answers this, but I just want to make sure-sure-sure, so I'm "asking the audience" as well.

KOP includes 1 of a certain kind of motor, but we are allowed to use up to, say, 4 on the robot. If we use 3 on the robot, are all 3 listed as KOP (zero cost) on the BOM, or only one gets a free ride, and we have to include cost for the other two?

And, if something (call it X) was available in First Choice this year, but we did not get it from First Choice this year (but still got one, from somewhere else or from a previous year) - i.e., used our First Choice credits on something else - can we still list X as KOP/zero cost?

[jds2001]

I saw in the Q&A that there are no quantity limits on the KoP items included in the BOM - for example, if you have 4 CIM motors (2 that you got this year and 2 last year), then ALL of those would be included under the KoP exemption.

As for items that were available through FIRST Choice that you got in another way, I'm not sure how to answer the question. Logically, since at least some teams had the ability to get them at zero cost and exempt them, it would make sense that ALL teams, however they acquired the identical items, would be able to exempt them even if FIRST Choice was out of stock or you simply chose to use your credits on something else. But if the items are different in any way, it'd be logical that you'd have to account for them.

However, I'm not sure if FIRST would call that "rules lawyering" or not, because I could also see a situation where a team with a large amount of financial resources would buy EVERY item in FIRST Choice out of team funds, and would have an unfair advantage over teams that didn't have the resources to do that (which is what the rule is designed to prevent IMO - to level the playing field, as it were).

[FrankJ]

In the past parts in addition to the items in addition to KOP numbers had to be had to be reported as paid for. I think the referenced Q&A was poorly answered.


To my way thinking the 2 of the 4 cims you report the price paid. It does not really matter if you are not getting close to the $4000.00 limit

[Cal578]

The previous posts mention Q&A's, but don't specify which, so I will. I think we're referring to Q469 (https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/469/what-price-do-we-put-in-our-bill-of-materials-for-the-left-window-motor-pn-262100-3040-that-is-the-kop-we-are-using-2-of-these-motors-from-other-kit-of-parts-from-previous-years):
Q. What price do we put in our Bill of Materials for the left window motor (PN 262100-3040) that is the KOP? We are using 2 of these motors from other Kit of Parts from previous years.
A. There is no quantity limit on Kit of Parts items in regards to the Cost Accounting Rules. If the item is a Kit of Parts item, it does not require an associated cost on the BOM.

In the past parts in addition to the items in addition to KOP numbers had to be had to be reported as paid for. I think the referenced Q&A was poorly answered.

To my way thinking the 2 of the 4 cims you report the price paid. It does not really matter if you are not getting close to the $4000.00 limit

I don't see what's poorly answered. In previous years, the BOM would include items in the KoP at zero cost only up to the quantity in the KoP, then full price for quantities over the KoP, except FirstChoice items were zero cost, but only for teams that actually acquired the items through FirstChoice. That was confusing, and unfair IMO.

This year, the rules are simpler and more fair (again IMO). Between that Q&A and the glossary definition of KoP, we include all items at zero cost. Simple and fair.

The glossary defines the KoP as Kit of Parts (KOP): the collection of items listed on any Kit of Parts Checklist, available in FIRST® Choice, or obtained
via a Product Donation Voucher (PDV)

[FrankJ]

This year we have seen number of Q&A answers changed. :) I am by no means saying my interpretation is the correct one.

With this interpretation, Most motors, all speed controllers would be listed as zero cost items since they appear somewhere on the KOP or First Choice.

Since some teams elected an Andymark Voucher rather than the base kit... Does that put the entire Andymark web site on the KOP? Are just the teams with the voucher?

Except for the teams approaching the $4000 dollar limit the point is really moot. More important would be to have an accurate clearly readable BOM since both zero cost & priced items are required.

[viveksridhar]

If we bought a second drivetrain kit from AndyMark (identical to the one in the KOP, as in the same belts and pulleys and everything) and we're using that one on a custom frame, do we need to include the price of the drivetrain parts? They're the same as the KOP, but the one on the robot was purchased separately (we used the actual KOP set on the prototype).

[vhcook]

If we bought a second drivetrain kit from AndyMark (identical to the one in the KOP, as in the same belts and pulleys and everything) and we're using that one on a custom frame, do we need to include the price of the drivetrain parts? They're the same as the KOP, but the one on the robot was purchased separately (we used the actual KOP set on the prototype).

If there was one drivetrain kit in the KOP and you have one drivetrain kit on your robot with identical parts (same part numbers, same quantity), you can claim it on your BOM as "the" KOP drivetrain kit. You're not required to track them by serial number. ;) If it didn't work that way, the paperwork would be pretty rough on folks who damage a part or find themselves in the "measure twice, cut once, measure again, sigh heavily, reorder" boat.

If you are using any alternate or additional parts (gearboxes, gears, extra metal, different tires, whatever), you'd have to claim them.

[FrankJ]

Here is another Q&A that seems somewhat in conflict about numbers with the one referenced earlier.

Q. Are the cost of items from previous years' kit of parts excluded from the BOM (ex. 8 slot cRIO), and are quantities taken from this years' kit of parts or from previous years' (ex. we received 1 jaguar in this year's KOP, but 2 in last year's KOP)? To rephrase, are items in any KOP exempt from cost?
2013-02-20 by FRC0930
A. Generally, no. However, the 2013 KOP includes 1 Jaguar and a voucher for 2 additional Jaguars (or Victors, depending on the Team's preference). The KOP also includes a cRIO (so, even if a cRIO wasn't delivered to a veteran team, it's still considered part of the KOP). For the purposes of FRC, and [R11] particularly, there is no distinction between the 4-slot and 8-slot cRIOs.

First choice accounting seems some what quirky since they do not all have numbers associated with them. I still wondering if since the circular saw is on First Choice, am I going to get away with using it on the Frisbee shooter. I have not figured out how to power yet.