View Full Version : 1986 Team Titanium 2013 Reveal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKy-IKDq_6o
Technical Specs
Drivebase:
8-wheel (4 center 6" traction, 4 corner 4" omnis.) Modified AM-001 Shifters. Chain driven.
VEXPro wheels, omnis, bearings, hubs, sprockets, hex shafts. Custom chassis, .090 aluminum.
Motors:
Drivetrain - 4 CIMs
Shooter - 1 CIM + 1 Mini-CIM
Climb Hoist - 4 RS-550s
2 Servos
Pneumatics:
7 actuators - 2 shifters, 2 arm, 2 shooter position, 1 disc feed. 5 valves.
Shooter: Hybrid arc + linear booster, 2-6" Skyway kit wheels. Stacked magazine feed. 4 shot angles.
Aiming camera
Control Language: LabView
Weight: 114 lbs.
Performance Specs
High speed 13.5 fps, low speed 5.25 fps.
Floor feed: Spatula style lift, single disc or 2 discs simultaneously.
Slot feed: Middle slot, 2.5 seconds
Passes under pyramid in shooting configuration
4 disc shots: 2.2 seconds
4-disc set full cycle time: 17 seconds
Autonomous: 7 discs in top goal. Other modes 3 to 5 discs to accomodate partners or acquire center court discs.
Climbing: 10-point: 2 seconds. 20-point: 11 seconds. 30-point: 21 seconds.
We compete Week 1 in Hub City, Week 3 in Greater Kansas City, and Week 5 in Oklahoma City.
Congratulations to all FRC teams for completing your build and best of luck at your events!
swwrobotics
22-02-2013, 22:07
Nice! Amazing robot as always.
That's one HOT looking robot. When it was revealed all I could say was wow.
Jibri Wright
22-02-2013, 22:09
Man. Epic.... 0.o
Steven Donow
22-02-2013, 22:12
Love it. 1986 always produce one of my favorite robots year after year.
AllenGregoryIV
22-02-2013, 22:15
This amazing, to be able to do nearly everything in such a simple elegant design is just amazing. 21 sec 30 point climb is amazing.
Mark Sheridan
22-02-2013, 22:16
wow! that is a elegant design. The 30 point climber caught me by surprise.
You guys mind to tell the reason for the arm shiver before and after going to the corner to load?
You guys mind to tell the reason for the arm shiver before and after going to the corner to load?
The arm clears momentarily when the shooter shifts position.
s_forbes
22-02-2013, 22:32
Slick robot. With all of your robots you have a tenancy to reduce every component of the game into the simplest assembly of mechanisms, I love it!
holygrail
22-02-2013, 22:32
Awesome...just awesome. I feel lucky to have seen it in person. I was especially impressed to see that 30 point climb happen so fast. See you at the K.C. regional!
Alpha Beta
22-02-2013, 22:35
Awesome...just awesome. I feel lucky to have seen it in person. I was especially impressed to see that 30 point climb happen so fast. See you at the K.C. regional!
We should be well practiced by the time we get to KC. ;)
Drivencrazy
22-02-2013, 22:39
Looks good guys! I like the pick up arm for autonomous and sick climber too. Good work!
Great looking machine, for sure. The most revealing detail from the video: they didn't bother to put reflective tape around the 2-pt goal. Evidence of a mindset that accepts only tiptop performance.
mrwright
22-02-2013, 23:14
Awesome robot guys! We were so amazed to see this in person. We can't wait to see it in action in KC. Thanks again for helping our rookie team!
Alpha Beta
22-02-2013, 23:17
Awesome robot guys! We were so amazed to see this in person. We can't wait to see it in action in KC. Thanks again for helping our rookie team!
You guys were great to work with. Always a pleasure to help our rookie friends have a great first season. Wouldn't be surprised to see you playing on Saturday afternoon with the quality of ideas and workmanship you have already shown us.
omsahmad
22-02-2013, 23:31
Solid robot.
nuggetsyl
22-02-2013, 23:45
killer robot
That's one HOT looking robot. When it was revealed all I could say was wow.
Agreed! Shades of HOT's '12 uber-arm! :)
Crazy. It was amazing at the Open House, but this reveal video just blew everything out of the water...#datclimb
Anupam Goli
23-02-2013, 00:33
I just have one thing to say:
Please don't think we took the arm idea from you.
It's eerily creepy, but that arm design is almost the exact same as our team's. It even works the exact same way. We won't have it at our week 1 event, but I'm glad to see that a team is out there with an arm that is similar in nature to ours and uses it effectively. I expected nothing less from 1986! I can't wait to watch you guys on the Hub City stream!
Meredith Novak
23-02-2013, 00:38
World class. See you at Hub City.
Nuttyman54
23-02-2013, 00:39
Very elegant and clean solution. I really hope to see you at champs.
...I don't know who's going to take the double win at Greater Kansas City this year, Bomb Squad or you guys...
Gabe Salas Jr.
23-02-2013, 00:45
Pretty neat robot - and totally surprised to not only see that it was a 3 tier climber, but a fast one too.
Great job - see you at Championships
Meredith Novak
23-02-2013, 00:47
...I don't know who's going to take the double win at Greater Kansas City this year, Bomb Squad or you guys...
It won't be Bomb Squad. Not competing there. ;)
The first thing I said when I saw this was "Wow!"
Awesome robot! I can't stop watching the video.
theawesome1730
23-02-2013, 00:50
It won't be Bomb Squad. Not competing there. ;)
NOOOOO! Still get to see you guys at Razorback though!
This simplicity of this robot is remarkable ! I was really impressed with your shooter accuracy last year at Ozark Mountain Brawl.
Titanium always has their own spin on unique designs. They have consistently been one of the best teams in FIRST, congrats on another great design !
EagleEngineer
23-02-2013, 01:46
see the reason why your team is awesome is because you score 42 points in auto.
I just have one thing to say:
Please don't think we took the arm idea from you.
And please don't think we took it from you. Once we found the discs were scoopable, it seemed like the thing to do.
Blackphantom91
23-02-2013, 02:22
Paradox thinking is what it is!:)
Anupam Goli
23-02-2013, 02:24
And please don't think we took it from you. Once we found the discs were scoopable, it seemed like the thing to do.
Haha, you're right. Before we settled on the arm idea, we were looking at ways of making a drop down intake, but with our robot's dimensions, it seemed like a complex geometry problem, so we just took a bit of inspiration from Team 67. I thought the arm idea was a unique way of picking up frisbees, but until i saw Titanium's video today, i was skeptical of its effectiveness and our team was thinking of scrapping it between our week 1 and week 3 competitions for a drop down intake. Glad to see you guys pulled it off so well!
Looks as good online as it did in person, yet another solid effort by 1986. See you at GKC, OKC, and hopefully Worlds.
Why does this thread not include more bowing???? Honestly the best robot I've seen so far. Elegant and simply amazing.
GearsOfFury
23-02-2013, 06:31
Truly outstanding in its simplicity. There *should* be more bowing! Not a knock against anyone, but this bot appears to be just as strong as 118 but far simpler - amazingly well done!
As far as comparisons go, it's not clear if it has the range of shootability that we see in the 118 video? In any case, thanks for sharing and great job!
Adam Freeman
23-02-2013, 06:44
Congratulations on another awesome machine!
I love this robot for obvious reasons...
But, I haven't seen any one mention that this is a very "1986-like" robot. It's like a combination of their 2011 and 2012 robots, built to shoot and climb.
Incredible design! I wish we would have built this robot instead of what we have.
Good luck this season.
see the reason why your team is awesome is because you score 42 points in auto.
We hope that is not the only reason. We have an amazing team of students working year-round to achieve some amazing things besides the robot.
As for scoring, our aspirations are 42 autonomous, 60 teleop, and 30 climb.
As far as comparisons go, it's not clear if it has the range of shootability that we see in the 118 video? In any case, thanks for sharing and great job!
Our only regret with the video is that we did not show more shooting from other positions. We have multiple shot angles and can shoot from anywhere around, inside, or in front of the pyramid. We have a lofty shot that can score in the pyramid goal, but unless that success rate is 3/4 or better it is not worth doing. As for the full court shot, we have the range and accuracy, but chose not to pursue that loading scheme. Because it is so easily defended we do not consider it a viable strategy.
EagleEngineer
23-02-2013, 12:54
We hope that is not the only reason. We have an amazing team of students working year-round to achieve some amazing things besides the robot.
As for scoring, our aspirations are 42 autonomous, 60 teleop, and 30 climb.
ya i kinda realized that after i posted, the fastest 30 pt hang ive seen so far, amazing spatula pickup (i wish we thought of that), really nice shooting, and i love the 8 wheel drive. You guys are awesome on every level. :)
JohnChristensen
23-02-2013, 14:00
You guys built a very impressive robot once again this year. Congrats to you all! I'll be watching Hub City next weekend were I expect you will be playing in the finals. Best of luck this year.
1986titans
23-02-2013, 14:15
Looks great again this year. Looking forward to seeing it at GKC and OKC.
I saw in some of your weekly videos you guys were practicing vision tracking discs, presumably for autonomous. Have/are you guys doing so now? And do you have any interesting electrical/programming features that wouldn't come out in this video?
Alpha Beta
23-02-2013, 18:57
I saw in some of your weekly videos you guys were practicing vision tracking discs, presumably for autonomous. Have/are you guys doing so now? And do you have any interesting electrical/programming features that wouldn't come out in this video?
We have vision code ready to go. So far we haven't needed it. The Pyramid discs are so close to our starting position that they are impossible to miss and the humans haven't had any difficulty aiming the robot at the center of the far discs. Distance isn't a factor either considering Q&A #429.
Lots of little features like a servo finger that holds the 2nd disk back in a double load so we don't jam and two tilting tusks that give the robot a new angle to hang from when extending our Sky Hook. Limit switch on the sky hook so the driver knows it has made a solid connection with the next level before pulling off the spring loaded hooks below. The shooter has 4 different angles, and every time it moves the Sky Hook and Ground Feed Mechanism both move momentarily to avoid mechanical interference... The devil is in the details as they say.
We are planning to have our 42 point autonomous code and auto climbing sequence on a poster in our pit.
Akash Rastogi
23-02-2013, 19:28
Sick robot again guys. I can't wait until we see the final form of this robot once Championships rolls around. The way you guys iterate is just awesome.
Congrats and good luck!
Wayne TenBrink
23-02-2013, 23:56
Do you have any sort of gate at the back of the spatula to restrain the discs until the arm has reached the proper height for the discs to slide into the feed chute?
Very clean looking machine and very strong performer. I'm sure that a lot of work went into making it look so easy!
Anupam Goli
24-02-2013, 00:05
Do you have any sort of gate at the back of the spatula to restrain the discs until the arm has reached the proper height for the discs to slide into the feed chute?
Very clean looking machine and very strong performer. I'm sure that a lot of work went into making it look so easy!
It doesn't need a gate since it looks like the arm picks up the disc by sliding under it, instead of using a motor.
Wayne TenBrink
24-02-2013, 00:18
It doesn't need a gate since it looks like the arm picks up the disc by sliding under it, instead of using a motor.
We have a similar (but not nearly so elegant) "spatula" arm without a motor also, and we needed to put a servo driven "gate" at the back of it to keep the discs from falling out before the arm reached the proper height. I don't see any such thing on 1986's pickup.
Do you have any sort of gate at the back of the spatula to restrain the discs until the arm has reached the proper height for the discs to slide into the feed chute?
There is actually a little lip that keeps them in. When we pull the arm up, the disc "pops" over the lip into the hopper. Also when we pick up two discs, there is a servo that holds one disc from entering the hopper until the other disc has entered.
waialua359
24-02-2013, 00:48
This looks the most similar to ours of all the robots weve seen other than the 30 point climber, even the antenna that I bet most people didnt notice.
Great job!
Alpha Beta
24-02-2013, 00:55
This looks the most similar to ours of all the robots weve seen other than the 30 point climber, even the antenna that I bet most people didnt notice.
Great job!
You've got to touch the pyramid with something in the starting configuration. ;)
theawesome1730
24-02-2013, 01:23
You've got to touch the pyramid with something in the starting configuration. ;)
My favorite part of our 2012 robot was the zip ties we had on our appendage to touch the key while we shot so our wheels didn't have to be on it.
Jawdropping reaction from over here.
This robot is super cool. I can't believe that it's 114 pounds, shoots 3 pointers, and climbs quickly to the third level. Nice job on it!
hmmm, what to say that hasn't been said......
Hope to see you in St Louis.
Would love to see better details of the climbing mechanism. Is it similar to LOGMOTION (Final Force)?
Good Luck
I like how you have integrated your "spatula" pickup arm into your climber. When you climb, the arm goes to a position that isn't shown at any other time. Is there another cylinder that is used for this, or a 3 position cylinder that I can't seem to find?
akoscielski3
25-02-2013, 12:23
Could you explain a little more how your picker upper works. You said earlier that it has a "lip", that the Frisbee "pops" over the lip and into the robot. How do you get it to "pop" over the lip? Is it the momentum of the Frisbee already going up when the arm stops? or is it something else?
Currently we don't have a picker upper, but at one point we did, it was too large for our robot (sticking outside of the 54inch cylinder). So I would like to add one back for later in the season, and looking at using something similar to this design for our robot if it works like we want.
If you could add pictures of video to the description of your picker upper that'd be great!
Thanks
-Aaron K
Alpha Beta
25-02-2013, 12:31
I like how you have integrated your "spatula" pickup arm into your climber. When you climb, the arm goes to a position that isn't shown at any other time. Is there another cylinder that is used for this, or a 3 position cylinder that I can't seem to find?
A servo extends two aluminum rods laterally to create a new stop position for the arm. The arm actuation then creates the tilt needed to extend the sky hook to the next rung. The stop is retracted as we go for the 3rd zone so the arm can come all the way down. It's a bit more crowded at the top. :rolleyes:
We do have a 4 position cylinder (2 cylinders of different sizes mated together) to create the 4 different shooting angles. You can see the short one behind the long one in the autonomous close-ups (1:17) in the video.
Alpha Beta
25-02-2013, 12:42
hmmm, what to say that hasn't been said......
Hope to see you in St Louis.
Would love to see better details of the climbing mechanism. Is it similar to LOGMOTION (Final Force)?
Good Luck
We couldn't find small enough Rollerblade wheels to run it like 2011. :yikes:
Similar in the sense that it is an elevator on a winch. 2011 we had a cascade rigging with a 2 stage drum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1201823&postcount=16). This one has a continuous rigging instead. We had to be a lot more careful about how the cable spools this time since we have two sides that need to stay level.
Here's a clip of some forward court shooting from varied positions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hSRw04uurk
In general we have placed little stock in long range shooting because it is so easily defended, and shot percentage suffers. We prefer positions which are not defendable.
Let's see here, fast and maneuverable drive-train, quick and accurate shooting, potential for full-court shots, floor pickup, 42 point autonomous, and fast (albeit potentially unstable) 30 point climb.
Yeah, GKC and OKC just got really, really interesting. Interesting in the regard of seeing how our robots interact with and against each other on the field of play.
Good luck this weekend at Hub City, and see you elsewhere.
Alpha Beta
25-02-2013, 19:40
Could you explain a little more how your picker upper works. You said earlier that it has a "lip", that the Frisbee "pops" over the lip and into the robot. How do you get it to "pop" over the lip? Is it the momentum of the Frisbee already going up when the arm stops? or is it something else?
Nothing but momentum. The arm stops and the Frisbee keeps going. Then gravity takes over and down the chute it goes.
“Everything should be as simple as it can be, but not simpler” ~Einstein~
Another good look at our floor loading from 48 to 60 seconds in this freshly released video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hSRw04uurk).
Jawdropping reaction from over here.
This robot is super cool. I can't believe that it's 114 pounds,...
It wouldn't have been so heavy, but we added 11 pounds of steel brick to move the CG to the necessary location.
Ravage457
26-02-2013, 08:07
When I saw the video, I was like "THIS IS SICK" great lookin robot and good luck guys at Hub City Regional, hopefully i can see this year bot in person, hope you guys have an awesome season this year
This is really cool, are you vision tracking or are you using a photon cannon, or are you just shining a flashlight randomly in the background. If you are using vision how and in what capacity.
Thanks
Alpha Beta
26-02-2013, 13:40
This is really cool, are you vision tracking or are you using a photon cannon, or are you just shining a flashlight randomly in the background. If you are using vision how and in what capacity.
Thanks
See link below on vision tracking.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1239342&postcount=45
I'm not sure the camera is even on-board during that autonomous filming.
The photon cannon dancing around is 1987 doing some testing off to the side.
This is gorgeous. So many brilliant ideas--and knowing 1986 they'll only keep adding more! Tres cool.
It's eerily creepy, but that arm design is almost the exact same as our team's. It even works the exact same way. We won't have it at our week 1 event, but I'm glad to see that a team is out there with an arm that is similar in nature to ours and uses it effectively. I expected nothing less from 1986! I can't wait to watch you guys on the Hub City stream!It might not be too uncommon. We have a similar arm that won't functioning this way at our week 1 as we had to shift more weight to climbing. I think the 'scoopablity' of these disks really lends itself to similar devices.
When I saw the video, I was like "THIS IS SICK" great lookin robot and good luck guys at Hub City Regional, hopefully i can see this year bot in person, hope you guys have an awesome season this year
Thanks for the well wishes and good luck to you at Alamo and Lone Star. Would like to see your bot sometime. Too bad your not coming to Lubbock I have a feeling we could use a tenacious partner again. Hopefully we'll see you at Champs. Get those drive chains well adjusted!
brandonpugh
27-02-2013, 13:18
Awesome robot guys! We were so amazed to see this in person. We can't wait to see it in action in KC. Thanks again for helping our rookie team!
I quite agree, I like the arm in the front to pick up the frisebees. Hope to see your robot at worlds!
Ravage457
27-02-2013, 14:26
Thanks for the well wishes and good luck to you at Alamo and Lone Star. Would like to see your bot sometime. Too bad your not coming to Lubbock I have a feeling we could use a tenacious partner again. Hopefully we'll see you at Champs. Get those drive chains well adjusted!
LOL will do, and thanks for the well wish, good luck and have fun
Mastonevich
05-03-2013, 16:30
It is certainly an amazing robot.
Not sure how many have noticed, but hub city makes 4 in a row for 1986.
2011 Colorado
2012 KC
2012 St Louis
2013 Hub City
Cheers, to the streak continuing for them!
holygrail
05-03-2013, 19:52
It is certainly an amazing robot.
Not sure how many have noticed, but hub city makes 4 in a row for 1986.
2011 Colorado
2012 KC
2012 St Louis
2013 Hub City
Cheers, to the streak continuing for them!
I believe it is actually 6 in a row if you count Bomb Squad's offseaaon event and Cowtown Throwdown.
We have vision code ready to go. So far we haven't needed it. The Pyramid discs are so close to our starting position that they are impossible to miss and the humans haven't had any difficulty aiming the robot at the center of the far discs. Distance isn't a factor either considering Q&A #429.
Lots of little features like a servo finger that holds the 2nd disk back in a double load so we don't jam and two tilting tusks that give the robot a new angle to hang from when extending our Sky Hook. Limit switch on the sky hook so the driver knows it has made a solid connection with the next level before pulling off the spring loaded hooks below. The shooter has 4 different angles, and every time it moves the Sky Hook and Ground Feed Mechanism both move momentarily to avoid mechanical interference... The devil is in the details as they say.
We are planning to have our 42 point autonomous code and auto climbing sequence on a poster in our pit.
So if you're not using vision targeting, I'd assume that you're using RPM and angle presets for your shots. However, you have a lot of shots to choose from, and I'd think you guys would start running out of buttons to put presets on, unless you have a different way of selecting them.
So if you're not using vision targeting, I'd assume that you're using RPM and angle presets for your shots. However, you have a lot of shots to choose from, and I'd think you guys would start running out of buttons to put presets on, unless you have a different way of selecting them.
He was referring to vision tracking of the floor discs in autonomous.
A little early in the season to detail our shooting methods, let's just say it is not as complex as you might think. We have several shots, but many have shared settings. As for buttons, there are ways to get more discrete inputs to the DS I/O module than the actual number of inputs it has. If you are not familiar with that we could show you.
He was referring to vision tracking of the floor discs in autonomous.
A little early in the season to detail our shooting methods, let's just say it is not as complex as you might think. We have several shots, but many have shared settings. As for buttons, there are ways to get more discrete inputs to the DS I/O module than the actual number of inputs it has. If you are not familiar with that we could show you.
Yeah, definitely not expecting you to go too much into detail about your shooting methods when you have two regionals (both where we're potential alliance partners and/or competitors) and championships to get through.
I knew you could add more DS I/O buttons, but I was talking about Joystick/Gamepad, but that is an interesting approach. I guess one could put the lesser used presets in the DS I/O or even on the dashboard dashboard as an enum to select values, or an array of buttons.
I knew you could add more DS I/O buttons, but I was talking about Joystick/Gamepad, but that is an interesting approach. I guess one could put the lesser used presets in the DS I/O or even on the dashboard dashboard as an enum to select values, or an array of buttons.
We prefer to use a separate button box for most functions, so that we can design our own intuitive layout and controls. Only the platform driving functions are on the joystick. I was referring to the number of inputs possible with a button box module such as the Cypress.
We prefer to use a separate button box for most functions, so that we can design our own intuitive layout and controls. Only the platform driving functions are on the joystick. I was referring to the number of inputs possible with a button box module such as the Cypress.
That makes more sense now.
Ok, that might be a good candidate for a project over the summer.
Mastonevich
05-03-2013, 21:48
I believe it is actually 6 in a row if you count Bomb Squad's offseaaon event and Cowtown Throwdown.
If you include off-seasons in the streak, one would have to do it from the start in the 2011 off season since the streak started in 2011. I think you only mentioned the 2012 off season. :)
Either way, great team, great robots, and I am wholeheartedly looking forward to seeing them in action at GKC.
Hopefully for them, the streak continues as I have nothing but respect.
Here's some match video from Hub City. This is Semi-Final 1-1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfXP3yKdm0c
Akash Rastogi
06-03-2013, 00:47
Finally have a match video from Hub City uploaded. This is Semi-Final 1-1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfXP3yKdm0c
That. Is freaking sweet.
pwnageNick
06-03-2013, 01:03
What's the reason for the bumpers being slanted in relation to the robot?
Great robot and video,
-Nick
Finally have a match video from Hub City uploaded. This is Semi-Final 1-1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfXP3yKdm0c
I counted 94 points: 42 auto, 42 teleop, & 10 hang. Nice.
I counted 94 points: 42 auto, 42 teleop, & 10 hang. Nice.
Thats what I counted too. I am also curious as to why the bumpers are slanted?
Thats what I counted too. I am also curious as to why the bumpers are slanted?
The back is higher to protect the robot while climbing. The motion we use swings it into the horizontal pyramid bars as it passes them.
Alpha Beta
06-03-2013, 08:38
I counted 94 points: 42 auto, 42 teleop, & 10 hang. Nice.
We can do better. :D
Mastonevich
06-03-2013, 09:13
We can do better. :D
It seems like you would have a chance to get the middle disks in auton and possibly shoot them also.
hey how do you guys push your frisbees out of the hopper? any special piece on the piston or just the rod pushing it in? thanks
It seems like you would have a chance to get the middle disks in auton and possibly shoot them also.
There's more discs out there? :rolleyes: Hmmm......
hey how do you guys push your frisbees out of the hopper? any special piece on the piston or just the rod pushing it in? thanks
Just the rod end. I was going to make a joke about the time of night you were up thinking about this, until I saw your time zone. Aloha.
Here's a couple of new autonomous modes, ready to compliment some talented potential partners on Newton.
http://youtu.be/xPhYjVwXnWc
joelg236
20-04-2013, 15:35
Here's a couple of new autonomous modes, ready to compliment some talented potential partners on Newton.
http://youtu.be/xPhYjVwXnWc
What's different about the center auto?
Here's a couple of new autonomous modes, ready to compliment some talented potential partners on Newton.
http://youtu.be/xPhYjVwXnWc
Looking great with those autonomous modes!
Though, I do have to ask why your RSL Light goes solid in both of those.
What's different about the center auto?
2nd set is from the front of the pyramid rather than the back, to accommodate a center-line auto partner that shoots their 2nd set from the back-center.
Looking great with those autonomous modes!
Though, I do have to ask why your RSL Light goes solid in both of those.
I believe solid-on RSL means autonomous mode enabled.
I believe solid-on RSL means autonomous mode enabled.
Watching Oklahoma matches, your RSL was still blinking during autonomous, as was every other robot's in autonomous. (At least in the finals)
Perhaps only practice mode autonomous.
Perhaps only practice mode autonomous.
Either that, or it's your camera, because watching your reveal video it does the same thing.
It just seemed odd to me.
No camera. Check here: http://wpilib.screenstepslive.com/s/3120/m/8559/l/101397-light-codes-on-control-system-components
Here's a couple of new autonomous modes, ready to compliment some talented potential partners on Newton.
http://youtu.be/xPhYjVwXnWc
Lovely center line, it looks like both of your autos should implement nicely with ours... ;) Can't wait to see you guys in a couple days!
Abhishek R
22-04-2013, 23:36
Wow, extremely impressive centerline. STL has their fears growing exponentially.
I am curious about the process of creating a practice bot. I have read a few threads about it, but I am looking for a first hand testimonial from a team that has similar shop capability to us, such as 1986.
Do you mind sharing any tips on how to ensure that both bots are created equally?
Or more specifically:
How do you ensure small modifications that are made post design and creation are done equivalently to both bots?
Keefe2471
23-04-2013, 00:41
In my experience, Practice Bots don't need to be equivalent in every way. Our practice bot ends up being our spare parts for the regionals that we take part in, so the functional parts of the robot have to be exact and if possible are fabricated alongside the real robots parts. The parts of the robot that are especially difficult to modularize (like the frame or wiring) usually suffers in comparison to our real robot. Practice bots give ever team a huge edge on the competition and I would recommend them highly. To insure accuracy in the practice bot "CADing" the robot before and after you build the robot is a must. I would recommend building the two robots side by side like 1986 recommends below me. Our team splits into sub teams and each team builds one version of their subsystem and then another, with V1 going on the practice robot after they finish fabricating and mounting the final version of the subsystem.
Just my 2 cents
I am curious about the process of creating a practice bot. I have read a few threads about it, but I am looking for a first hand testimonial from a team that has similar shop capability to us, such as 1986.
Do you mind sharing any tips on how to ensure that both bots are created equally?
Or more specifically:
How do you ensure small modifications that are made post design and creation are done equivalently to both bots?
That is a fairly large topic but I can offer some thoughts. Our philosophy is that a practice bot is a big investment, and for it to have its full benefit and value, it must be essentially identical. Its purpose is to train drivers on the subtleties and fine points of operating the robot, and differences matter. You cannot know which small difference may turn out to be important, or how small differences might be affecting your practice in ways you don't discern. The whole benefit of making a PB diminishes rapidly if it does not accurately represent the comp. bot. Its other purpose is to give you a platform to make design changes or additions later in the season. Small differences, especially the ones you didn't remember, can cause modifications to not fit or work as planned or tested. It is VERY easy to allow a PB to slip in terms of quality or features or schedule when you are tired and under deadline pressure. We try hard to be vigilant in keeping it on track so that it has its full value when we need it. A PB that takes 2-3 weeks to finish or update after ship day has lost much of its value. That is the time it is most needed to prepare for competition. A PB that is missing a capability or has a difference that the drivers must accommodate has also lost much of its value.
We build both bots essentially side by side, keeping all design aspects identical. We fabricate all parts together in two sets. Almost any fabrication step is much more efficiently done at the same time. Some of the comp. bot parts are diverted to paint while the PB parts go right to assembly. We keep the PB 2-3 days ahead of the comp bot, so that details can be worked out and practiced or small improvements made before we do them again on the comp bot. We do allow control wiring quality to suffer some on the PB, as long as it does not effect functionality. (This year even wiring was important to keep the weight and center of gravity identical for climbing behavior.) If we make a major or minor design change or improvement, we do it twice. We are vigilant about keeping both bots in sync. A small list of "we'll change the practice bot later" can quickly become a large list of differences that matter but never get done. You just develop a mindset that everything you do, you do twice, even the changes and corrections. It is easy to think of the practice bot as inferior or less important, but when you are preparing for competition, you want it to function just as well and be just as reliable as the comp. bot.
Around the beginning of week 5 our focus shifts from keeping the practice bot ahead, to getting the comp bot finished, so we shift our efforts. By that time the practice bot is complete enough that it can be finished quickly when needed, and it becomes important to finish comp. bot details for testing and bagging. After bagging it is very tempting to let down and rest, but we try to remember the build season is not over until the practice bot is finished, and that it is needed ASAP, so we keep going.
I guess to answer your question, there is no secret to knowing HOW to create two bots equally. Everyone knows how to make two things the same. The much harder part is remaining convinced that it is worthwhile to do, when you are tired and stressed and behind schedule.
A couple other thoughts about taking the step of building a practice bot. Don't do it unless you feel you have the manpower and resources to pull it off. It could jeopardize the quality and on-time completion of your comp. bot if it diverts resources you can't really afford. Or, if attempted but not finished, it can be a waste of money, parts, and effort that yields no benefit.
On the other hand, don't be afraid to try it when you feel you're ready. Building two identical bots does NOT take twice the time and effort of building one (it does, however, take twice the money.) There are many efficiencies to making multiple parts at the same time and doing assembly steps twice at the same time. Steps can be quickly repeated and are usually easier the second time. Young members can help much more when they have an example to copy. The first time we built a practice bot, I remember looking back and thinking that it was significantly less than twice the work of building one bot.
Make no mistake, it is a lot of extra work in a process that is already hard to finish in the time available. But when you are ready, it is certainly a pivotal step in taking your team to the next level of competition.
Banderoonies
23-04-2013, 07:54
I am curious about the process of creating a practice bot. I have read a few threads about it, but I am looking for a first hand testimonial from a team that has similar shop capability to us, such as 1986.
Do you mind sharing any tips on how to ensure that both bots are created equally?
Or more specifically:
How do you ensure small modifications that are made post design and creation are done equivalently to both bots?
195 creates a "twin bot" each season. When the CAD design generates the prints everything is then manufactured in the shop by the students three times. Once for the competition twin, once for the practice twin and usually a spare.
As soon as the competition Bot is assembled, there is no rest for the weary, the students begin to assemble the twin bot EXACTLY THE SAME as the original. That is why we call it a "twin".
Minor design or mechanical modifications do happen occasionally, but primarily the twin bot helps with the fine tuning of programming and of course drive practice. When a modification is made, it is kept on a list and changes made to the competition bot just prior to rolling out on the field. But these are usually minor (moving the battery, changing wheel, etc). Major design modifications are not possible given the time constraints at competitions.
In summary, I would say that building the twin has proven to be very successful. The learning process continues for much longer. I will caution you though, get ready for additional fund raising, because it is expensive to build two!
Looking forward to meeting you all!
Sandra Brino
Mentor FIRST team 195
That is a fairly large topic but I can offer some thoughts...
Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I imagine this will be a topic for our team this offseason and want to be at least somewhat prepared for it.
As always, I will be cheering you on at Championships. Good luck!
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