2013 MAR Standings [Archive]

DELurker

17-03-2013, 09:24

Your list has some serious issues with the SCH event. You only put in points for qualification matches. The data for draft, elimination, and awards is all missing. For example, 341 earned 70 points at SCH, not 20.

Yep, the list was missing selection results for Springside. But, let's face it, nobody important was there ... :p

I fixed it and added a few more tweaks.

AGPapa

17-03-2013, 09:51

Awesome, thanks. But I have another question. Under team 709 you have zero points and zero events. However, both Spyder and TBA say that they competed at SCH. TBA says they went 5-7; but, Spyder says that they went 0-1. I am guessing that they got red-carded during their first match, can anyone who was at SCH confirm?

EDIT: Sorry to be so nit-picky about this, but it seems like you gave the District EI award winners an auto-bid to MAR Champs. I was under the impression that only the District CA winners received this auto-bid. The EI winners are invited to compete for the MAR EI award, but their robot doesn't auto-qualify to compete. The MAR supplemental rules http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/2013-supplemental-rules/ make no mention of the EI award under the "Qualifying and Registering to Compete at the Region Championship" section. Although, this document is not the most reliable, as it refers to there being 50 spots for championship and 60 spots for championship in the same paragraph.

Foster

17-03-2013, 10:50

709 didn't have the best of weekends. They had robot issues and did not get a working robot / inspected robot until their last match of the day. They played but lost. The FIRST site has them DQ'ed for all the matches except for that one.

Had they been inspected and on the field, they would have been 5-7. (Or better since they would have contributed points to their alliance!!)

They got a standing ovation when they did appear. It takes a lot of desire to hang in there working on a robot right up to the last second.

DELurker

17-03-2013, 14:02

Awesome, thanks. But I have another question. Under team 709 you have zero points and zero events. However, both Spyder and TBA say that they competed at SCH. TBA says they went 5-7; but, Spyder says that they went 0-1. I am guessing that they got red-carded during their first match, can anyone who was at SCH confirm?

Basically, I'm using the usfirst.org results page to get the recorded, which is listed as 0-1-0. The event count is currently done by counting the number of non-zero columns for a given team. I *humble voice* had assumed that nobody would score zero points at an event. :( I'll have to fix that somehow. Of course, it doesn't really change their current position, just how far up they can climb.

DELurker

17-03-2013, 14:13

Sorry to be so nit-picky about this, but it seems like you gave the District EI award winners an auto-bid to MAR Champs. I was under the impression that only the District CA winners received this auto-bid. The EI winners are invited to compete for the MAR EI award, but their robot doesn't auto-qualify to compete. The MAR supplemental rules http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/2013-supplemental-rules/ make no mention of the EI award under the "Qualifying and Registering to Compete at the Region Championship" section. Although, this document is not the most reliable, as it refers to there being 50 spots for championship and 60 spots for championship in the same paragraph.

It's not nit-picky. It's getting things right or understanding why they are set up they way they are. There's not a problem in the world with it.

The MAR documents are ... confusing ... to me, to say the least. Chairman's gives an auto-bid, so it gets no MAR points. EI gets no points, either. Last year, EI winners got to compete IIRC. If they don't get to auto-bid, shouldn't they be getting points? Currently, I've got it set to auto-bid the team. That way, the worst-case that I see is that some teams will be invited that I listed as no-gos, which is a good thing (we all know it will happen, too).

After all, in some form, the EI teams will be there. They just may not be on the field.

As for the 50 vs 60, that'll get ironed out after next week's events (according to the document ;) )

AGPapa

17-03-2013, 14:47

It's not nit-picky. It's getting things right or understanding why they are set up they way they are. There's not a problem in the world with it.

The MAR documents are ... confusing ... to me, to say the least. Chairman's gives an auto-bid, so it gets no MAR points. EI gets no points, either. Last year, EI winners got to compete IIRC. If they don't get to auto-bid, shouldn't they be getting points? Currently, I've got it set to auto-bid the team. That way, the worst-case that I see is that some teams will be invited that I listed as no-gos, which is a good thing (we all know it will happen, too).

After all, in some form, the EI teams will be there. They just may not be on the field.

As for the 50 vs 60, that'll get ironed out after next week's events (according to the document ;) )

Thank you for understanding. Also, it seems like I misread the paragraph, thanks for the correction.

scottandme

17-03-2013, 15:23

Here's the MAR Event Schedule and Rankings as we've compiled them.

I previously published the MAR Event Schedule, but unintentionally made it private a few weeks ago.

Schedule: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdEV5S1ZzVlR6MU9Md1hSRi1GSmNHZ kE&usp=sharing

Rankings: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdDNoMWw1empFTUExNGZPaklvRG1vR 0E&usp=sharing

DELurker

18-03-2013, 11:37

Thank you for understanding. Also, it seems like I misread the paragraph, thanks for the correction.

No problem. If we're all not tired and sick from TCNJ, we weren't having enough fun!

Even though I've said it before, I will repeat: The robot that you guys put together absolutely ROCKS!

Lil' Lavery

20-03-2013, 14:05

Has MAR officially stated how many teams will attend the MAR Championship? All I've seen is "at least 50."

scottandme

20-03-2013, 16:30

Has MAR officially stated how many teams will attend the MAR Championship? All I've seen is "at least 50."

Last year we had 53 teams attend (out of 99). MAR had to move down to the 64th ranked team to get that many, as 10 teams declined starting with the 37th ranked team. 103 was the only high profile/highly ranked team to skip the event.

We might have to go further down the list this year - Lehigh isn't as convenient for most teams, and a number of teams are prequalified for CMP (25, 103, 341). 365 seems to be skipping MAR CMP and attending Chesapeake instead.

I would be happy to see MAR CMP shrink a bit and go to a smaller/closer venue, and reduce the registration fee, but I think FIRST opposes that. Once the region gets bigger it would make sense, but it seemed like a struggle to get to 53 last year.

ENeyman

20-03-2013, 19:02

Lehigh isn't as convenient for most teams

I agree, does anyone know more about the decision to switch venues?

Deetman

20-03-2013, 21:48

I agree, does anyone know more about the decision to switch venues?

If I had to guess, the main reason is money. Hosting any event in Philly is extremely expensive. Would not surprise me if Lehigh is donating the event space for next to nothing.

scottandme

20-03-2013, 23:15

I agree, does anyone know more about the decision to switch venues?

My memory is a little foggy, but I think it was discussed at the MAR board meeting last June. I seem to remember that Lehigh was the only viable venue available week 6/7. I think Temple was booked those weekends. No idea about cost difference between those different sites. I think the Sun Center (Trenton) was getting very expensive.

The Philly/Trenton area is probably the geographic center of MAR. Philly was a bus ride for us last year, but ~2-2.5 hours to Lehigh means it's an overnight trip now, and I'm sure other teams are in the same boat.

I understand that FIRST wants the prestige of a big event, but $4K + lodging is a good chunk of change, especially when you're looking at World Championships 2 weeks later.

We really just aren't big enough to be justifying a 50-60 team regional championship. Michigan has 206 teams and 64 attend MSC. We're at 109 teams this year, and this was an unusually big year for growth. I didn't run numbers for PA, but NJ has had minimal growth up until this year. NJ had 56 teams in 2006 and was at 62 teams in 2012 (peaked at 64 in 2010).

If you look at it, there really isn't much difference in size between a large district event and MAR CMP. We scraped together 53 teams last year, Bridgewater is hosting 43 teams for their district event.

scottandme

24-03-2013, 17:58

I updated the sheet with week 4 results. Not official by any stretch, but good for people who want to see where they stand. Let me know if you find any errors.

Anyone with 50+ points is a near-lock for MAR CMP. I highlighted those teams in pink, and also highlighted Bridgewater teams who earned 25+ points at their first event (45 teams in total). The real cutoff is likely to be lower (possibly significantly lower), so don't despair if you're on the bubble.

2013 MAR Standings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdDNoMWw1empFTUExNGZPaklvRG1vR 0E&usp=sharing)

Lil' Lavery

24-03-2013, 19:34

The Philly/Trenton area is probably the geographic center of MAR. Philly was a bus ride for us last year, but ~2-2.5 hours to Lehigh means it's an overnight trip now, and I'm sure other teams are in the same boat.

Geographically, Lehigh is pretty close to the center of the MAR area. Remember that MAR extends as far west as Harrisburg. In terms of population centers, most of the teams are located East of Lehigh along the I-95 corridor, though.

DELurker

24-03-2013, 23:46

Attached is the week 4 update of my MAR Standings sheet. If you find any errors, please let me know.

Since there are teams who haven't played all of their events, I have the teams sorted by their points average. I've got two weeks to figure out how to deal with teams (like 303) that are playing in 3 district events (only the first two count).

BandChick

25-03-2013, 23:42

Geographically, Lehigh is pretty close to the center of the MAR area. Remember that MAR extends as far west as Harrisburg. In terms of population centers, most of the teams are located East of Lehigh along the I-95 corridor, though.
The geographic center of MAR is actually just outside of Ewing, NJ (this was discussed at a board meeting). That makes Philly and or Trenton ideal locations for the MAR Championship, just from a location perspective.

The Lucas

30-03-2013, 14:53

The geographic center of MAR is actually just outside of Ewing, NJ (this was discussed at a board meeting). That makes Philly and or Trenton ideal locations for the MAR Championship, just from a location perspective.

Sarah, that is probably the center of population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population) for MAR. Sean is right that Lehigh probably pretty close on the geographic center for an area that extends as far west as Harrisburg, as far north as Tunkhannock, PA (north of NJ) and as far south as Middletown, DE.
That doesn't mean I like booking a hotel to volunteer there, Temple was a shorter commute for me than any district. However, I am interested to see a new venue. Maybe we will keep changing venues as needed.

AGPapa

30-03-2013, 21:56

Sean is right that Lehigh probably pretty close on the geographic center for an area that extends as far west as Harrisburg, as far north as Tunkhannock, PA (north of NJ) and as far south as Middletown, DE.

It doesn’t matter that Harrisburg or Tunkhannick are a part of MAR if there are no teams there; so I found the center of all 2013 teams in MAR. I used this list of teams: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdEV5S1ZzVlR6MU9Md1hSRi1GSmNHZ kE#gid=22
And this list of coordinates: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1176459&postcount=25
I found the center of all MAR teams to be 40.39724, -74.8769 (somewhere in Lambertville, NJ).
This is:
32.3 miles to the Liacouras Center in Philidelphia,
28.5 miles to Stabler Arena in Bethlehem, and
14.2 miles to the Sun National Bank center in Trenton.
Interestingly, the new MAR championship is closer to the center of teams than the old MAR championship.

Lil' Lavery

30-03-2013, 22:27

222 is from Tunkhannock.
2559 is from Harrisburg.

AGPapa

30-03-2013, 22:46

222 is from Tunkhannock.
2559 is from Harrisburg.

I know that there are teams from those places, they were part of my calculations. My statement was meant to be taken rhetorically; some places have more teams than others and should have more weight in choosing a spot for MAR championships. The geographic center of a region doesn't matter; its the population center that does.

DELurker

31-03-2013, 08:55

I know that there are teams from those places, they were part of my calculations. My statement was meant to be taken rhetorically; some places have more teams than others and should have more weight in choosing a spot for MAR championships. The geographic center of a region doesn't matter; its the population center that does.

Actually, what are they all? The team-weighted center, the geographic-based center, and the team-size-weighted center are all different means of answering the same question. All are justifiably as valid.

Another would be the team-funding-inverse-weighted center, basing the weight of a team off of the inverse of it's funding, thus giving less-well funded teams more weight due to their difficulties in traveling.

Cody Burd

31-03-2013, 09:17

It doesn’t matter that Harrisburg or Tunkhannick are a part of MAR if there are no teams there; so I found the center of all 2013 teams in MAR. I used this list of teams: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdEV5S1ZzVlR6MU9Md1hSRi1GSmNHZ kE#gid=22
And this list of coordinates: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1176459&postcount=25
I found the center of all MAR teams to be 40.39724, -74.8769 (somewhere in Lambertiville, NJ).
This is:
32.3 miles to the Liacouras Center in Philidelphia,
28.5 miles to Stabler Arena in Bethlehem, and
14.2 miles to the Sun National Bank center in Trenton.
Interestingly, the new MAR championship is closer to the center of teams than the old MAR championship.

its Lambertville :)

AGPapa

31-03-2013, 09:44

Actually, what are they all? The team-weighted center, the geographic-based center, and the team-size-weighted center are all different means of answering the same question. All are justifiably as valid.

Another would be the team-funding-inverse-weighted center, basing the weight of a team off of the inverse of it's funding, thus giving less-well funded teams more weight due to their difficulties in traveling.

Good idea.

Here, 40.38577925, -74.95323414, is the center weighted by average district score. After all, why should a team's location matter if they don't attend the championships? Either way, it's still in Lambertville, just a little farther west, suggesting that the good teams are pretty evenly distributed over MAR.

The inverse-funding center sounds like the best idea, but unfortunately I don't think that that information is publicly available. I tried to replicate it by finding the inverse-size-of-sponsor-list center. I know that some sponsors give more than others and that this isn't perfect, but hopefully the size of the sponsor list roughly correlates to team funding. Anyway, that center is 40.44366073, -74.80339903. It's in a place called Ringoes, NJ. It's a little farther north and a little farther east than the center of teams.

Steven Donow

31-03-2013, 09:48

Good idea.

Here, 40.38577925, -74.95323414, is the center weighted by average district score. After all, why should a team's location matter if they don't attend the championships? Either way, it's still in Lambertville, just a little farther west, suggesting that the good teams are pretty evenly distributed over MAR.

The inverse-funding center sounds like the best idea, but unfortunately I don't think that that information is publicly available. I tried to replicate it by finding the inverse-size-of-sponsor-list center. I know that some sponsors give more than others and that this isn't perfect, but hopefully the size of the sponsor list roughly correlates to team funding. Anyway, that center is 40.44366073, -74.80339903. It's in a place called Ringoes, NJ. It's a little farther north and a little farther east than the center of teams.
Another possible metric to use (that I don't know how to determine, so I'll let you guys who do know do it) to compare these locations, is take the team list from MAR Championships last year, or even the team list from NJ/PA regionals in years past(obviously excluding teams from outside the MAR area).

AGPapa

31-03-2013, 10:14

Another possible metric to use (that I don't know how to determine, so I'll let you guys who do know do it) to compare these locations, is take the team list from MAR Championships last year

The problem with that metric is that many teams declined to attend MAR championships because of the distance last year. MAR had to go down the rank 64th team just to get 53 to attend. If teams that can’t attend because of distance are not counted then we generate a feedback loop and move MAR championships further away from them again.

The center of teams that attended MAR championships last year is 40.32755, -74.9932. It is further south and west than the other centers I calculated. It’s in New Hope, PA.

Deetman

31-03-2013, 14:12

It is also important to note that one of the goals of MAR is to help grow FRC participation in the supported region. I don't think anyone would disagree that the MAR Champs this year is in a lower team population area. By holding the event in such an area there is a greater chance of new teams being formed there than say in Philly, where there are already many teams with much smaller room to grow new teams.

DonRotolo

31-03-2013, 21:49

Well, we could always build a new arena in Lambertville...

I think the reason for choosing Lehigh for this years MAR championship is because the arrangements were more favorable than what Temple was offering.

Lil' Lavery

31-03-2013, 21:58

ENeyman

31-03-2013, 22:17

While the Philly burbs are pretty well tapped out, there's still a fair bit of potential for growth in the city itself. Especially if you include restarted disbanded teams.

I can't agree more. Out of the 45 high schools in the Philadelphia School District, only 4 have FRC teams. Partly this is because of budget limitations, but most of these schools probably have never heard of FIRST.

camtunkpa

03-04-2013, 10:36

Cody Burd

03-04-2013, 10:45

Akash Rastogi

03-04-2013, 11:25

222 is happy we only have to travel 1.5 hours to Lehigh!

I know there are many teams upset by the fact they will have to spend money for lodging, but think about the teams like 222, 1143 & 4285 from NEPA that have to pay for lodging at every competition we go to.

MAR is good in that we get to play more for the same price, but we don't get to see the cost savings other teams in the district get to see.

I like Lehigh, and I think it is pretty fair due to what Cliff stated. I think it will prove to be a great event.

Full disclosure: I never liked attending an event at Temple.

AGPapa

07-04-2013, 12:41

I just updated the standings for after BR alliance selections, let me know if you spot any errors.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdDNoMWw1empFTUExNGZPaklvRG1vR 0E#gid=0

scottandme

07-04-2013, 16:25

I just updated the standings for after BR alliance selections, let me know if you spot any errors.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdDNoMWw1empFTUExNGZPaklvRG1vR 0E#gid=0

Updated with elimination results, just waiting for award points and the DCA winner. Here are the teams who have clinched a spot at MAR CMP. The rankings aren't official and will change slightly with award points, I haven't looked at tiebreakers either.

1 341
2 2590
3 225
4 316
5 1676
6 11
7 3974
8 103
9 293
10 2729
11 56
12 3314
13 365
14 222
15 2607
16 303
17 1640
18 193
19 4575
20 816
21 272
22 2016
23 1218
24 1089
25 1403
26 486
27 2539
28 4285
29 75
30 25
31 869
32 714
33 1367
34 219
35 1228
36 1391
37 224
38 433
39 1881
40 1495
41 1143
42 1626
43 1370
44 4361
45 2559
46 1279

On the bubble (4 slots available):
3340 - 50 pts (@BR)
4342 - 48 pts
136 - 47 pts
3123 - 47 pts
357 - 47 pts
223 - 47 pts (@BR)
555 -42 pts (@BR)
4475 - 42 pts (@BR)

If the CA winner at BR is outside the top 50, there are only 3 slots available. Keep in mind that more than a few teams declined last year, so teams in the 51-60 range have a good shot to squeak in via declines.

Phalanx

07-04-2013, 16:35

ENeyman

07-04-2013, 16:37

On the bubble (4 slots available):
3340 - 50 pts (@BR)
4342 - 48 pts
136 - 47 pts
3132 - 47 pts
357 - 47 pts
223 - 47 pts (@BR)
555 -42 pts (@BR)
4475 - 42 pts (@BR)

If the CA winner at BR is outside the top 50, there are only 3 slots available. Keep in mind that more than a few teams declined last year, so teams in the 51-60 range have a good shot to squeak in via declines.

They're from Australia... Good team though!

scottandme

07-04-2013, 16:59

Thanks Scott,

However, I know of 2 teams that have qualified that won't be at the MAR Championship as they are attending a different regional on the same weekend.

I also looked at the floor plan for the MAR Championship that has a pit layout for 50 teams. So I would think any team 50 or better is in, at this point.

So that makes bubble teams 52+. The question remains how many declines there are of those that have already qualified. If I remember correctly, last year MAR needed to reach down to the 60th seed to get 50 teams. What it will be this year is anyone's guess.

The "bubble" is for the #1-50 in the standings, as the award points get added we'll see the final 50 (before declines).

We'll have to see how many declines we get before we have the final list for Lehigh.

As far as I know, 365 and 87 are the only teams at Baltimore next weekend, and 87 is already eliminated from MAR CMP.

scottandme

07-04-2013, 17:13

Standings should be complete now. Here are the top 50, I only did the tiebreak for the final slot. Also put the teams up for CA, EI, and RAS at Lehigh. There are 2 slots for CA and EI this year, still one slot for RAS.

1 341
2 2590
3 1676
4 225
5 316
6 11
7 3974
8 103
9 293
10 2729
11 56
12 3314
13 365
14 2607
15 222
16 303
17 1640
18 193
19 4575
20 816
21 2016
22 272
23 1218
24 1089
25 1403
26 486
27 714
28 2539
29 4285
30 75
31 25
32 869
33 1367
34 1391
35 1228
36 219
37 224
38 433
39 1881
40 1495
41 1143
42 1626
43 1370
44 4361
45 2559
46 1279
47 3340
48 4475
49 4342
50 3123 - tiebreak (most elim points)

Chairman's Award Competitors:
11
75 (also up for EI)
433
1218
2590
2729

Engineering Inspiration Competitors:
75 (also up for CA)
321 (won twice)
1403
1676
3142

Rookie All Star Competitors:
4460 (won twice)
4475
4575
4637
4653

AGPapa

07-04-2013, 17:16

It's interesting to note that team 2495 won Lenape but is not in the top 50. Five teams need to decline for them to get their invitation to Lehigh.

DonRotolo

07-04-2013, 21:20

I was told that 2016 will not attend Lehigh, they are saving their money for St Louis.

That's at least 1 more slot...

dellagd

07-04-2013, 21:25

I was told that 2016 will not attend Lehigh, they are saving their money for St Louis.

That's at least 1 more slot...

Also, I was also told that 341 and 365 will decline their spots. Can anyone confirm this?

Steven Donow

07-04-2013, 21:28

Also, I was also told that 341 and 365 will decline their spots. Can anyone confirm this?

I can't confirm for 341, but 365 are declining, as they will be attending the Chesapeake Regional next weekend instead.

MisterJ

07-04-2013, 21:43

Congratulations to all the top teams heading to Lehigh. Double congratulations to all of the teams that have made the finals in two district events. (7 teams, if I'm not miscounting.)

316
341
714
1676
2590
3314
3974

Miss Daisy is the only team with two district wins, showing what amazing parity there has been in MAR this year - no clear favorite for a championship next weekend. (My money would go on 2590, but as 56, 293, and 224 proved at TCNJ, Nemesis is not invincible.)

I am so impressed that 1676, 3314, and 714 worked with the same alliance in back-to-back events, going home with Finalist ribbons the first time, but earning a blue banner this afternoon. That's loyalty!

Akash Rastogi

07-04-2013, 23:34

It's interesting to note that team 2495 won Lenape but is not in the top 50. Five teams need to decline for them to get their invitation to Lehigh.

If 2495 does not play at MAR Champs, it will be a terrible shame. These guys worked their butts off to prep for Lenape after a disastrous event at TCNJ. Lots of potential for their robot and driveteam.

Also a huge shame because they are a rare sight in MAR this year - someone with a floor intake (and one that actually works!)

http://www.thebluealliance.com/team/2495

DELurker

07-04-2013, 23:41

Since I started the topic (and I'm finally home from Bridgewater), here's my list of the standings in MAR as of today. The tiebreakers are not in the sheet.

All I can say is ... it's been a great (but exhausting) day that I will be repeating in just 3 days. :ahh:

Is that an indication that there is something truly terribly wrong with me?

As always, if there's an error, please let me know. I may not be awake enough to reply before the start of drop-off Wednesday, but I will try...

Deetman

08-04-2013, 00:19

Thanks DELurker and Scott from 2590 for updating this. Taking a quick glance at this, tiebreakers do cause some teams to move around in order, including some on the bubble. I know the final rankings were generated in person at Bridgewater-Raritan and that FIRST was notified so that teams will get invitations tomorrow morning.

Brandon_L

08-04-2013, 00:48

It's interesting to note that team 2495 won Lenape but is not in the top 50. Five teams need to decline for them to get their invitation to Lehigh.

I am 99.9% confident we will attend, I can name quite a few teams off hand that are not attending.

I volunteered at bridgewater today, and watching us slide from 39th all the way down to 55th was the most painful thing I've ever experienced.

EDIT:
Teams I'm aware of that are not attending MAR:
2016 (Buckeye Chairmans)
25 (Einstein)
103 (HOF)
341 (HOF)
365 (HOF/Chesapeake)

That 5 puts us in mar, plus any additional declines which there are bound to be

mprikril

08-04-2013, 10:52

They posted the cumulative results on the MAR website: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1407395/2013%20MAR%20Docs/2103%20STANDINGS/Week%206%20Final.pdf

scottandme

08-04-2013, 12:37

EDIT:
Teams I'm aware of that are not attending MAR:
2016 (Buckeye Chairmans)
25 (Einstein)
103 (HOF)
341 (HOF)
365 (HOF/Chesapeake)

Are these confirmed firsthand, or just guesses? 103 just registered for MAR CMP. 365 is the only other that I know for sure.

I updated my GDrive sheet with the correct rankings, and have been adding a note as teams officially register for MAR champs.

The Lucas

08-04-2013, 12:59

Are these confirmed firsthand, or just guesses? 103 just registered for MAR CMP. 365 is the only other that I know for sure.

I updated my GDrive sheet with the correct rankings, and have been adding a note as teams officially register for MAR champs.

I have heard from multiple 341 mentors that they are not coming. One of them told me 103 was coming and that was true.

Brandon_L

08-04-2013, 13:26

Lil' Lavery

08-04-2013, 15:11

103 is registered, and I'm relatively sure they're attending.

25 and 341 are not attending, in large part because they just finished competing in Vegas and moving all those people and equipment for back-to-back competitions on opposites sides of the country is a pain.

87 and 365 are registered for the Chesapeake regional this weekend, and don't look like they will be attending MAR champs.

25, 103, 341, 365, and 2016 have already secured bids for Champs in St. Louis. All but 103 appear to be skipping Lehigh.

scottandme

08-04-2013, 19:10

Looks like we're done with registration for the day, 33 teams are officially registered. Hopefully we fill out the event roster early tomorrow. Michigan is a bit ahead of us, they have 56 (of 64) teams officially registered.

Assuming that 341, 365, 2016, and 25 are skipping the event, that moves the cutoff down to 54. Last year we had to reach down to the 57th ranked team to hit 50 at the event, and there are more top-tier teams skipping the event this year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop lower than last year.

quad

08-04-2013, 22:53

FYI

Ranking + MAR registered + FIRST registered (as of tonight)

here as a pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23510373/MAR%20CMP%202013.pdf)

dellagd

09-04-2013, 00:02

Geez, seeing that my team isnt registered yet is giving me a heart attack.

:ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

Steven Donow

09-04-2013, 08:55

For those curious, we are officially registered, so they are starting to go down "the bubble"

Akash Rastogi

09-04-2013, 10:01

For those curious, we are officially registered, so they are starting to go down "the bubble"

Brandon just told me 2495 is also registered!

Hallelujah!

Lil' Lavery

09-04-2013, 11:22

Still only 38 teams officially registered, and none ranked beneath 55 on MAR standings. We have four confirmed/semi-confirmed declines so far, and if the #55 team (2495) was invited, there's at least one more decline out there. Curious if the rest of the teams are simply not registered yet, or if there are more declines.

thefro526

09-04-2013, 11:39

I have heard from multiple 341 mentors that they are not coming. One of them told me 103 was coming and that was true.

I can confirm that 341 will not be competing at the MAR Championship this weekend due in part to the logistics of moving our robot, competition equipment and team from Vegas back to PA in ~3 days.

That being said, many team members are planning on making the trip up to Lehigh (myself included) to volunteer and to support our WFFA and DLA entries.

For those of you who have not yet been invited but are close to the cutoff (it's moving towards higher and higher ranks) be patient. Odds are, that ~10-15 teams will decline their spot to the MAR Championship when all is said and done.

quad

09-04-2013, 13:23

List of qualified and registered teams for MAR CMP, as of noon

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23510373/MAR%20CMP%202013.pdf

file updated again, 44 teams registered, Rank 57 is lowest ranked team attending so far

Akash Rastogi

09-04-2013, 13:37

40 teams now. Robbe just registered.

mprikril

09-04-2013, 14:45

Yup, team 56 is in. I think a few teams are in the same boat as us - we were planning on attending all along, it's just been a crazy couple of days trying to coordinate payments and confirmations between the school, MAR and FIRST. It took this long for us to get the paperwork done. There may be a couple more "unregistered" teams going through the same.

Pro-tip: Always be very, very nice to the administrative assistants at your school. You never know when you'll need to call in a favor, and they are the best (sometime only) ones who can get this sort of thing done quickly.

The Lucas

09-04-2013, 18:23

scottandme

09-04-2013, 18:58

Just heard the news that 4460 is in and probably the 50th team!
The question is who are the 10 declines. I expect another of my teams, 1495 declined due to funding. With 25, 341, 365, 2016, who are the other 5?

Well, assuming 4460 is #50, here are the 10 gap teams. 5 should be registered and the other 5 presumably declined. Any insider info?

303
2539
219
1881
4361
3123
136
1647
1807
555

MisterJ

09-04-2013, 19:24

Just heard the news that 4460 is in and probably the 50th team!

I expect another of my teams, 1495 declined due to funding.

Very happy to hear about 4460 making it to the Regional Championship this year. Even as far back as last fall's Duel on the Delaware, they looked like a pretty talented rookie team (with a pretty talented mentor team as well).

Very sorry to hear about 1495, who was very under-the-radar, but still managed to finish in the top half of a stacked Hatboro-Horsham event, then went on to be 341 and 225's partner on the winning alliance at Chestnut Hill... a very simple, but extremely consistent and effective machine. I can't wait to see them at district events again next year.

Deetman

09-04-2013, 19:27

Well, assuming 4460 is #50, here are the 10 gap teams. 5 should be registered and the other 5 presumably declined. Any insider info?

303
2539
219
1881
4361
3123
136
1647
1807
555

The last I heard when I left Bridgewater-Raritan Sunday was that 303 was planning on attending. That is about all I can say with any confidence at this point.

DELurker

09-04-2013, 23:53

As of tonight, 44 teams have fully registered. I've updated my form and attached it. I'm a little surprised nobody noticed that I had completely missed two teams. :o

DELurker

10-04-2013, 00:00

Well, assuming 4460 is #50, here are the 10 gap teams. 5 should be registered and the other 5 presumably declined. Any insider info?

303
2539
219
1881
4361
3123
136
1647
1807
555

The teams out of the top 60 that have not yet shown up on the usfirst page are:
341, 365, 303, 2016, 2539, 25, 219, 1495, 1881, 4361, 136, 3123, 1647, 555, 1807, 4460

It looks like 42 MAR points is going to be this year's cutoff (currently). The next three teams on deck are 1168, 1923, 3151 (according to my numbers, which may differ from MAR's because I'm too tired to check right now) with 41 MAR points.

quad

10-04-2013, 01:09

<snip> ... The next three teams on deck are 1168, 1923, 3151 (according to my numbers, which may differ from MAR's because I'm too tired to check right now) with 41 MAR points.
Tie-breaks applied?

For those who have the time, the event may still be looking for volunteers.

DELurker

10-04-2013, 06:59

Tie-breaks applied?

Nope. But they are the only three I have listed with 41 points and the latest batch of teams registering was at the 42 point level.

Lil' Lavery

10-04-2013, 16:46

1923 is registered.

The Lucas

10-04-2013, 17:50

As has 1881, anyone have any info on the last one? 1647 perhaps?

dellagd

10-04-2013, 18:04

I really hope 4361 is able to attend. I'd love to speak with them again at the Regional CMP.

dellagd

10-04-2013, 18:14

Hallry

10-04-2013, 18:39

It also seams that team 11 is already registered for Worlds but are attending MAR champs anyway: Team List (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&event_type=FRC&sort_teams=number&year=2013&event=cmp)

Correct me if im wrong?

That is correct. Same with 103.

11 qualified for Worlds by winning the Palmetto Regional Week 1, and 103 qualifies for Worlds automatically every year by winning the Championship Chairman's Award in 2003, and thus entering the FRC Hall of Fame.

scottandme

10-04-2013, 18:54

That is correct. Same with 103.

11 qualified for Worlds by winning the Palmetto Regional Week 1, and 103 qualifies for Worlds automatically every year by winning the Championship Chairman's Award in 2003, and thus entering the FRC Hall of Fame.

Indeed. The other 4 prequalified teams declined (25, 341, 365, 2016).

The only practical consequence would be if 11 or 103 ended up winning the entire event. In that case, they would consume one of MAR's 3 CMP auto-bids for the event winner. In MAR, these 3 slots cannot pass down the list if a team has already qualified, so we would have 13 qualifiers at most. The same would apply if 11 won one of the two CA slots for championships.

Interestingly, in FiM, the 3 winner spots can pass down to the next "points-based" team in the queue. This is something that I would like to see MAR implement for next year, I though that was a FIRST restriction, but if Michigan can do it, I imagine we could as well.

FiM: http://firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2013/2013_Rules_Supplement.pdf
MAR: http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/2013-supplemental-rules/

MisterJ

10-04-2013, 20:54

In 2012, if I remember right, points earned at the region championship were multiplied (tripled?) and added to points earned at districts? Will this stand for 2013?

Steven Donow

10-04-2013, 21:06

In 2012, if I remember right, points earned at the region championship were multiplied (tripled?) and added to points earned at districts? Will this stand for 2013?

This was correct last year, however it is not in the MAR supplemental rules this year.

Also, with 49 teams registered at this moment, is it logical to assume that we will be stuck at 49 teams?

By my math it seems that we will have 98 qualification matches....I don't see so much need in having to have qualification matches tomorrow night...(assuming math for matches is (#of teams*number of matches per team(12))/6))

quad

10-04-2013, 21:08

the dropbox link in a previous post now has the latest update.

49 teams have registered
7 MAR teams have registered for the FIRST Championships
3 of those teams will also be at the MAR Championships
FIRST Team 1923, Ranked 61 is the lowest ranked team to accept so far

Points earned at the championships are counted 3x in final rankings and tie-breaks

Good luck to all the teams.

quad

10-04-2013, 21:42

<snip> ...
Interestingly, in FiM, the 3 winner spots can pass down to the next "points-based" team in the queue. ... <snip>

Last year, MAR had this statement in the supplemental rules:
"The 7 award spots may not be filled by any team(s) other than the 7 award winners even if one of the 7 award winning teams chooses to decline their spot. The only exception is when a member of the winning alliance has already been awarded a slot by winning the MAR Region Championship Chairman’s, Engineering Inspiration, or Rookie All Star award. In this case, a team will be added from the top ranked teams."

Different than FiM. Don't know if it was changed for this year. Will have to find out.

68SS

10-04-2013, 21:59

Just an FYI As of 4:00 PM team 484 was registered for Lehigh

Steven Donow

10-04-2013, 22:03

Just an FYI As of 4:00 PM team 484 was registered for Lehigh

Then I'm guessing FIRST's event page just didn't update. That means that qualifications went down to the 65th ranked team.

68SS

10-04-2013, 22:22

Then I'm guessing FIRST's event page just didn't update. That means that qualifications went down to the 65th ranked team.

More than Likely, this all went down really late in the day.
if the teams above couldn't make a commitment then so it is.

the MAR 2013 supplemental rules state that

"if any of the eligible teams are unable to attend, choose not to attend, or do not respond by Tuesday at
noon, the next team in ranked or
der will be eligible to take their place. Eligibility will continue to move
down through the ranks until all
50
places at the Region Championship are filled. This makes it vital for
teams to notify us quickly if they do not plan to attend."

As it stands the teams above had more than 24hr past the deadline to make their decision and that is against what the MAR rules state We had less than 24 hrs before the championship starts to scramble to notify team members, arrange transportation, load vehicles and everything else that goes along with getting ready.

DonRotolo

10-04-2013, 22:27

I also heard that, but I cannot confirm it.
I also heard similar stories about 103 and 25.

68SS

10-04-2013, 22:44

I also heard that, but I cannot confirm it.
I also heard similar stories about 103 and 25.

I can confirm it for sure, the delay made it very hard on us Mentors who have to juggle work & Play, some aren't going and others are trying to re-arrange schedules, as it is we had a Mentor who was ready to go but after 12:00 PM today with still no answer from FIRST had to commit to his work and therefore he will be lucky to be there at all on Thursday or Friday, Oh did I mention this is his 5th year as a Mentor !!!

thefro526

11-04-2013, 08:50

In 2012, if I remember right, points earned at the region championship were multiplied (tripled?) and added to points earned at districts? Will this stand for 2013?

Basically the equation used last year is as follows: (I was there during the final points tally)

Total Points = MAR_CMP_Points*3 + SumD1_D2 Points**

The idea here is that the Championship points are worth 60% of your final score and points awarded prior to the Championship are worth 40% of your final score.

**SumD1_D2 is the total points earned after a teams first two district events, a team competing at a third event does not earn points at this event.

Also, in the event that Team 11 were to win the MAR CMP or it's Chairman's award (or EI) then they would, in theory, cause a spot to 'disappear' from the system in the same way that 341 did last year.... Team 11 has a special incentive to compete at the MAR CMP since it's a continuation of their Chairman's award process... (103 would also remove a spot should they win MAR CMP as well)

AGPapa

11-04-2013, 22:24

I updated the google doc for Thurday. As expected, nothing really changed. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCax1FanfCIdDNoMWw1empFTUExNGZPaklvRG1vR 0E#gid=20

Anyway, 1367 was signed up on usfirst.org, but didn't show up. So we only have 49 teams for Lehigh, just 6 more than the largest district event.

EDIT: Just updated for Friday.