Ontario/Quebec Rankings

[Racer26]

Figured I'd follow California (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114884), Texas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114974), and Missouri/Kansas (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=115162)'s lead, and do one of these for Ontario/Quebec.

The FIRST in Michigan rules supplement, which includes the points system, can be found here:MI Rules (http://www.firstinmichigan.org/FRC_2013/2013_Rules_Supplement.pdf)

My team list is ON/QC teams according to: 2013 Teams (http://frclinks.com/t)

I included results from NYRO, NHMA, ONTO, QCMO, NYNY, and PAPI, which I believe is everywhere that ON/QC teams have played. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.


Team ONTO QCMO NHMA NYRO NYNY PAPI Total
3387 24 64 88
3386 18 60 78
2056 75 75
1114 74 74
3985 20 53 73
1503 71 71
610 69 69
3990 68 68
1075 22 40 62
4343 57 57
1241 56 56
3360 43 10 53
2809 26 21 47
3117 46 46
1325 44 44
2013 44 44
2626 44 44
3530 12 30 42
1547 40 40
4476 37 37
4718 35 35
2994 34 34
3396 34 34
3710 33 33
4001 33 33
771 32 32
3541 31 31
3977 30 30
772 27 27
4007 27 27
3996 26 26
4492 26 26
3986 25 25
3550 12 11 23
3983 23 23
296 22 22
3988 6 16 22
781 20 20
3543 19 19
2702 18 18
4526 18 18
865 15 15
4252 14 14
4015 12 12
4491 12 12
4727 12 12
4594 11 11
2852 10 10
3533 10 10
3544 10 10
3989 10 10
2185 9 9
3379 9 9
3382 8 8
3532 8 8
3975 8 8
3979 8 8
3987 8 8
4167 8 8
4808 8 8
3969 6 6
3981 6 6
4807 5 5
854 0
907 0 0
1305 0
1310 0
1334 0
1815 0
1846 0
2200 0
2386 0
2625 0
2634 0
2935 0
3161 0
3560 0
3571 0
3683 0
3705 0
3756 0
3949 0
4039 0
4069 0
4152 0
4200 0
4372 0
4518 0
4519 0
4525 0
4595 0
4618 0
4659 0
4678 0
4688 0
4699 0
4704 0
4716 0
4732 0
4754 0
4777 0
4783 0
4806 0
4814 0
4825 0

[akoscielski3]

If only we didn't die in three matches we would be a bit higher in the rankings :(

Should this not be average per regional? Since some teams went to 2 regionals their scores are much higher then that of teams that went to one regional. For example 1114 and 2056 have only gone to 1 regional, while 3387 and 3386 have went to two, making them have a higher ranking? Just a thought :p

Thanks for doing this

[Gregor]

771 competed at NYNY.

7-1 record, fourth alliance captain, quarter-finalists, and the Entrepreneurship award.

[CalTran]

For some reason, I find it amusing that 2056 is one point better than 1114.

[Racer26]

771 competed at NYNY.

7-1 record, fourth alliance captain, quarter-finalists, and the Entrepreneurship award.

Fixed in OP.

In other observations: Wow. That's a strong showing for 771.

[Gregor]

Fixed in OP.

In other observations: Wow. That's a strong showing for 771.

Very impressive. The top 5 seeds all had 7 wins, it went to tiebreak points.

[alex.lew]

Interesting to see how these rankings will stand after Waterloo and GTRWest. Those will be really entertaining to watch. My team was just commenting how Montreal would have been a fun regional, albeit expensive.

[BJC]

All these rankings give me an idea.

Why don't we do this ranking process for the whole world in order to see approximatly who would be able to go to the World Championship under a "district" points system? Simply double the number of points teams that only attend one regional get; it wouldn't be perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it would be very interesting to be able to run numbers on the prospective teams attending as compaired to the actual teams attending among other things.

While I don't have the time to do this myself I would be very interested in seeing it if someone else wanted to take it up; I'm sure lots of people would appreciate it.

Nice job with the rankings
Regards, Bryan

[minhnhatbui]

Should this not be average per regional? Since some teams went to 2 regionals their scores are much higher then that of teams that went to one regional. For example 1114 and 2056 have only gone to 1 regional, while 3387 and 3386 have went to two, making them have a higher ranking? Just a thought :p


The situation is quite different in Canada to use the same ranking rules as FiM. The latter is geared towards two district events per team at a minimum; in Canada, Ontarian teams might do two or all three events in Ontario, and in Quebec, all teams but 5-6 only participate in one event, the Montreal regionals. So, if a team decides to participate in a second event, it will automatically have an edge.

Not saying that 3386 and 3387 are not good teams - you should all have seen them in the Montreal regionals last week, they were more than amazing - but it's funny that they are ranked higher than 1114 and 2056.

We should make a ranking system for Canada just for fun! :P

[akoscielski3]

Oh sorry, at first I didn't realize this was the points for a district scoring system

[Racer26]

The situation is quite different in Canada to use the same ranking rules as FiM. The latter is geared towards two district events per team at a minimum; in Canada, Ontarian teams might do two or all three events in Ontario, and in Quebec, all teams but 5-6 only participate in one event, the Montreal regionals. So, if a team decides to participate in a second event, it will automatically have an edge.

Not saying that 3386 and 3387 are not good teams - you should all have seen them in the Montreal regionals last week, they were more than amazing - but it's funny that they are ranked higher than 1114 and 2056.

We should make a ranking system for Canada just for fun! :P

Its understood that directly applying the FiM system to Canada doesn't properly account for teams that don't attend exactly two regionals.

I think calculating these rankings has become popular because it is expected that many regions will be converting to the District model (which will likely include a very FiM-like points system) in the next 1-3 years. Seeing how things might be different is an interesting exercise.

After this coming week, when 1114 and 2056 among others have played a second regional, then comparing them to 3387 and 3386 will make more sense. At this point, it really only makes sense to compare teams with the same number of regionals complete (so for 2 regionals, that would be 3387, 3386, 1075, 2809, 3360, 3985, 3530, 3550, 3988)

[Gaurav27]

Its understood that directly applying the FiM system to Canada doesn't properly account for teams that don't attend exactly two regionals.

I think calculating these rankings has become popular because it is expected that many regions will be converting to the District model (which will likely include a very FiM-like points system) in the next 1-3 years. Seeing how things might be different is an interesting exercise.

After this coming week, when 1114 and 2056 among others have played a second regional, then comparing them to 3387 and 3386 will make more sense. At this point, it really only makes sense to compare teams with the same number of regionals complete (so for 2 regionals, that would be 3387, 3386, 1075, 2809, 3360, 3985, 3530, 3550, 3988)

All these rankings give me an idea.
Why don't we do this ranking process for the whole world in order to see approximatly who would be able to go to the World Championship under a "district" points system? Simply double the number of points teams that only attend one regional get; it wouldn't be perfect by any stretch of the imagination but it would be very interesting to be able to run numbers on the prospective teams attending as compaired to the actual teams attending among other things.

I see that many are crunching these numbers out in their respective regions and posting the results. For this thread, doing this provides a great deal of insight into a potential future for the District Points System to be in place across all provinces in Canada. As mentioned, we're probably talking within the next several years. At least for now, it will be really interesting to see how all this turns out after 3/4 more weeks of competition.

Great work Racer26!

[Racer26]

After Week 4, it looks like this:

I've added ONWA and MABO results.


Team ONTO QCMO NHMA NYRO NYNY PAPI ONWA MABO Total
1114 74 73 147
2056 75 68 143
610 69 62 131
1241 56 44 100
3387 24 64 88
3386 18 60 78
2013 44 32 76
3985 20 53 73
1503 71 71
3990 68 68
1075 22 40 62
772 27 31 58
4343 57 57
2702 18 37 55
1310 54 54
3360 43 10 53
2852 10 41 51
781 20 27 47
2809 26 21 47
3117 46 46
1325 44 44
2626 44 44
4069 44 44
3530 12 30 42
1547 40 40
1334 37 37
4476 37 37
4718 35 35
2994 34 34
3396 34 34
3710 33 33
3756 33 33
4001 33 33
4039 33 33
771 32 32
3541 31 31
3977 30 30
3683 28 28
4007 27 27
3996 26 26
4492 26 26
3986 25 25
4519 25 25
3550 12 11 23
3983 23 23
4618 23 23
296 22 22
3161 22 22
3949 22 22
3988 6 16 22
3571 21 21
4152 21 21
3543 19 19
4526 18 18
865 15 2 17
4252 14 14
4525 14 14
4678 14 14
4015 12 12
4491 12 12
4727 12 12
2200 11 11
4594 11 11
1305 10 10
1846 10 10
3533 10 10
3544 10 10
3989 10 10
2185 9 9
2386 9 9
3379 9 9
2625 8 8
3382 8 8
3532 8 8
3975 8 8
3979 8 8
3987 8 8
4167 8 8
4200 8 8
4777 8 8
4808 8 8
3969 6 6
3981 6 6
4372 6 6
4807 5 5
854 0
907 0 0
1815 0
2634 0
2935 0
3560 0
3705 0
4518 0
4595 0
4659 0
4688 0
4699 0
4704 0
4716 0
4732 0
4754 0
4783 0
4806 0
4814 0
4825 0

[alex.lew]

Very impressive from all the traditional Canadian powerhouse teams!!

[Gregor]

Very impressed with 1503 and 3390, being ranked so high with only 1 event so far.

[Racer26]

After weeks 5 and 6, it looks like this. Note: I made it so that totals were calculated only on a teams first two chronological events but still showed the amount of points they would have earned at the third (unless your third was ABCA), which means that for several teams at ONTO2, and all ON teams at ABCA except 4001, those events didn't count.


Rank Team ONTO QCMO NHMA NYRO NYNY PAPI ONWA MABO ONTO2 MELE OHCL ABCA Total
1 1114 74 73 71 147
2 2056 75 68 66 143
3 610 69 62 131
4 1310 54 51 105
5 1503 71 32 103
6 1241 56 44 40 100
7 1334 37 55 73 92
8 4001 33 57 90
9 3387 24 64 88
10 3386 18 60 78
11 4343 57 20 77
12 2013 44 32 42 76
13 3985 23 53 76
14 3117 46 29 75
15 3990 68 68
16 4069 37 29 66
17 2994 34 28 62
18 4039 33 29 62
19 1547 40 21 61
20 772 27 31 27 58
21 1325 37 21 58
22 3683 28 29 57
23 2852 15 41 56
24 1075 22 33 8 55
25 2386 9 46 55
26 3756 28 27 55
27 1305 15 38 41 53
28 3360 43 10 53
29 2702 15 37 52
30 781 21 27 32 48
31 2809 26 21 47
32 3161 22 23 45
33 2626 44 44
34 771 32 10 21 42
35 3571 21 19 40
36 3530 12 25 37
37 4476 37 37
38 4718 35 35
39 3396 34 34
40 3710 33 33
41 4814 33 33
42 2200 18 14 32
43 3541 31 31
44 3977 30 30
45 3988 6 21 27
46 4007 27 27
47 3996 26 26
48 4492 26 26
49 4618 26 26
50 4716 26 26
51 296 25 25
52 3986 25 25
53 4519 25 25
54 3550 12 11 23
55 3983 22 22
56 3949 21 21
57 4152 21 21
58 2185 9 10 19
59 3543 19 19
60 4526 19 19
61 907 0 18 18
62 865 14 2 16
63 3379 16 16
64 4704 16 16
65 4678 15 15
66 4525 14 14
67 2935 12 12
68 4015 12 12
69 4491 12 12
70 4518 12 12
71 4727 12 12
72 4252 11 11
73 4594 11 11
74 1846 10 10
75 3533 10 10
76 3544 10 10
77 3989 10 10
78 4732 10 10
79 4783 10 10
80 4825 10 10
81 1815 8 8
82 2625 8 8
83 3382 8 8
84 3532 8 8
85 3560 8 8
86 3975 8 8
87 3979 8 8
88 3987 8 8
89 4167 8 8
90 4200 8 8
91 4659 8 8
92 4777 8 8
93 4808 8 8
94 2634 6 6
95 3969 6 6
96 3981 6 6
97 4372 6 6
98 4595 6 6
99 4688 6 6
100 4754 6 6
101 4807 5 5
102 3705 4 4
103 854 2 2
104 4699 0
105 4806 0


Ontario/Quebec has 105 teams. In 2008, MI had 118. MSC has historically taken the top 64. The Hershey Centre would hold 64 perfectly, so I would assume that a hypothetical Ontario/QC Region Championship would likewise hold 64.

Interestingly, several teams made the cut while only attending one event, and several more would have made the cut on a single event's points, despite attending more than one. I suspect though, that the cutoff is artificially low due to having less events than a true district system.

[George C]

I think you missed second events for both 2200 and 2386 who both attended the Pinetree Regional in Maine - week 6. Why not show the Calgary points for the other teams that attended Calgary - 771, 1305 and 1334?

[cpeister]

781 also attended Buckeye, which I don't think was listed. It was their third event though, so it doesn't matter for points.

[Racer26]

I updated it to add 2200/2386 at MELE, and also added the points for 771, 1305, and 1334 at ABCA.

I noticed in checking though, that I'd screwed up all the points for 2nd picks, (inadvertently giving them the reverse of what they deserved, so #8 alliance second pick received 1 pt instead of 8, and #1 alliance second pick received 8pts instead of 1). Because of how I built my spreadsheet, fixing this isn't easy. Working on a fix, will post again when fixed, though it shouldn't change standings too much.

[Racer26]

Fixed. Also, added 781 @ OHCL for interest. Interestingly enough, 4343 was one of the teams most negatively affected by my error.