Airzooka

[1255415684]

Is there anything in the rules that prevents a team from using airzookas to knock other frisbees out from the sidelines? http://www.instash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/laser-airzooka.jpg

[1255415684]

Im sure there is a rule that we cant throw objects, but what about air?

[JohnSchneider]

I sometimes forget this is a forum with a lot of high schoolers, and I sometimes forget how bad they are at trolling....

[John Sabath]

No. Just no.

That's not even taking advantage of the rules, that's just playing dirty.

[ablatner]

There are rules about what the drive team can have during a match. This is not one of the allowed items.

[CalTran]

There are rules about what the drive team can have during a match. This is not one of the allowed items.

I think the troll meant standing in the stands as a spectator.

[dtengineering]

It's that little quoted rule, 3.14.1, that requires all competitions to conform to the laws of physics.

It might be worth trying at the Hogwarts' Academy off-season event, where 3.14.1 is normally waived.

Jason

Please note that 3.14.1 also specifically disallows helping robots to climb by "jumping up and down really hard" in the stands, and using divine intervention to improve autonomous mode.

[Gregor]

I sometimes forget this is a forum with a lot of high schoolers, and I sometimes forget how bad they are at trolling....

I hope you are using the term "they" loosely. :rolleyes:

This was a pretty bad troll...

[Kevin Sevcik]

The game is meant to be played by the humans and robots that are on the field and no one else. Duh. Other illegal acts from the sidelines include:

Jamming a robot's radio
Blinding a driver with a portable skylight
Disabling a robot with an EMP canon (http://gizmodo.com/5454295/this-emp-cannon-stops-cars-almost-instantly)
Distracting a driver with an LRAD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device)
Shooting drivers with tranquilizer darts
Throwing caltrops onto the field
"Disabling" a robot with a Barrett M82 sniper rifle.


I propose that before anyone uses the "it's just air" excuse, they must explain the difference between sniping a frisbee with a puff of air, versus a well placed blunted arrow. And if they still want to argue "it's just air", then we toss them in a 75mph wind tunnel for 30 minutes or so. I mean, it's just air, it's not like it's really doing anything.

[JohnSchneider]

I hope you are using the term "they" loosely. :rolleyes:

This was a pretty bad troll...

They dont have trolls in canada right? I thought they were abominable snowmen up there? :confused:

[Gregor]

They dont have trolls in canada right? I thought they were abominable snowmen up there? :confused:

Nope just polar bears and friendly moose.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Nope just polar bears and friendly moose.I don't know. The whole Quebec PastaGate (http://techpresident.com/news/23617/quebecs-language-laws-lead-pastagate) thing really seems like an epic bit of trolling if you ask me.

[connor.worley]

For more serious discussion: Would it be legal to mount a device on a robot to do this? Would it be moral?

[JohnSchneider]

For more serious discussion: Would it be legal to mount a device on a robot to do this? Would it be moral?

Yes and yes. No different than teams using fans in '09 (and this year from what I've heard).

[ablatner]

For more serious discussion: Would it be legal to mount a device on a robot to do this? Would it be moral?

That's definitely both legal and moral. It isn't stretching any rules.

OP:
What if you just get your whole team to blow REALLY hard at the opposing alliance?

[Kevin Sevcik]

That's definitely both legal and moral. It isn't stretching any rules.

OP:
What if you just get your whole team to blow REALLY hard at the opposing alliance?And lots. Very rapidly. For the whole 2:15. I mean, someone has to test the regional's response to an entire team fainting on the sidelines, right?

EDIT:My wife suggests paper bags are recommended. I think paper bags are a sign you're not truly committed to the cause.

[Jaxom]

By using the digits of pi as a letter-skipping sequence I have been able to decode this year's rules and find some hidden messages. One of them clearly allows for the use of Airzookas, with the following restrictions:
* They must be powered by a legal robot battery
* They may only be used on disks inside the team's Auto Zone
* The air column it generates must be contained within a 54x84 meter cylinder
* The only team member who may use the device is a costumed mascot

[Lil' Lavery]

Yes and yes. No different than teams using fans in '09 (and this year from what I've heard).

It's completely different than using fans in 2009, and I don't know of any teams using them this year. In 2009, fans were used to provide additional propulsion given the mandated wheels and "regolith" surface, not to deflect game pieces.

[Akash Rastogi]

It's completely different than using fans in 2009, and I don't know of any teams using them this year. In 2009, fans were used to provide additional propulsion given the mandated wheels and "regolith" surface, not to deflect game pieces.

I don't have a picture, but I'm almost 100% positive 869 has a giant fan on their robot.

[PayneTrain]

Im sure there is a rule that we cant throw objects, but what about air?

I don't know how everyone here skipped over this bit of gold.

[JeffersonMartin]

I don't have a picture, but I'm almost 100% positive 869 has a giant fan on their robot.

At Palmetto, 619 had a box fan on their's for their last couple of matches. It seemed really effective actually.

[Jaxom]

It's completely different than using fans in 2009, and I don't know of any teams using them this year. In 2009, fans were used to provide additional propulsion given the mandated wheels and "regolith" surface, not to deflect game pieces.

1982 built one at GKC. They used a model airplane prop on a Banebot 770 inside a section of bucket. Nice, safe, mesh covering both ends. I know it was in use (you can see it on our POV video) but I don't think it was very effective. Certainly not against shots from the pyramid.

[JohnSchneider]

1982 built one at GKC. They used a model airplane prop on a Banebot 770 inside a section of bucket. Nice, safe, mesh covering both ends. I know it was in use (you can see it on our POV video) but I don't think it was very effective. Certainly not against shots from the pyramid.

Well to be fair you really drive your frisbees in there...they arent "lofted" shots.

But imagine it back at a full court shooter. an inch of lift down there could mean a mile when it reaches the goals.

[JeffersonMartin]

You can see a fan being used fairly effectively here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4zz8Okgk2k
This was the only round I saw it for though, so I'm not sure how well it worked later on.

[Jaxom]

But imagine it back at a full court shooter. an inch of lift down there could mean a mile when it reaches the goals.

I was excited when the student that built it brought it to Inspection on Friday. We'd talked about fans and it sure seems like an early deflection ought to do some good on a long, lofted, shot. But theory isn't reality.... I was hoping to see it in action during quals but if they did use it, I missed it.

[Woolly]

I was excited when the student that built it brought it to Inspection on Friday. We'd talked about fans and it sure seems like an early deflection ought to do some good on a long, lofted, shot. But theory isn't reality.... I was hoping to see it in action during quals but if they did use it, I missed it.

Team 1982 did not play against us until the Quarters at KC, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the fan wasn't "in action" until then.

[Travis Hoffman]

You can see a fan being used fairly effectively here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4zz8Okgk2k
This was the only round I saw it for though, so I'm not sure how well it worked later on.

We need at least six of these robots to come to MARC during the summer. What sweltering gym heat?

[1255415684]

Yes and yes. No different than teams using fans in '09 (and this year from what I've heard).

Team 2342... the leaf blower bot... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_K0fwDng8

[Gdeaver]

The leaf blower defense is a viable strategy against full court shooters. Its all about watts, CFM, and velocity.

[Kevin Sevcik]

You can see a fan being used fairly effectively here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4zz8Okgk2k
This was the only round I saw it for though, so I'm not sure how well it worked later on.I'm reminded of Lisa Simpson's tiger repellant rock (http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/tigerrepellantrock/). First you have to convince me that the robots in that match were actually capable of consistently hitting 3-pointers. Then I might be willing to believe that fan was capable of deflecting hard thrown pyramid shots.

[Brandon Zalinsky]

and using divine intervention to improve autonomous mode.

Hey, it works! Our team always does magic fingers to encourage a successful auton.

[Jaxom]

I'm reminded of Lisa Simpson's tiger repellant rock (http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/tigerrepellantrock/). First you have to convince me that the robots in that match were actually capable of consistently hitting 3-pointers. Then I might be willing to believe that fan was capable of deflecting hard thrown pyramid shots.

1648 was missing low shooting over that. Combine that with the autonomous results and I must conclude that any nearby tigers are in hiding.

[eddie12390]

Hey, it works! Our team always does magic fingers to encourage a successful auton.

Even after it has worked consistently all day I still find myself crossing every appendage that I can. I've tried to get other team members to do it, also. My thought is that if we will it hard enough it will suddenly have the most advanced autonomous available and all of the frisbees on the field will just fly into our loader.

[Kevin Sevcik]

1648 was missing low shooting over that. Combine that with the autonomous results and I must conclude that any nearby tigers are in hiding.First off, you can't compare a hand-aligned, fixed position autonomous shot with a teleop shot lined up in the open field with (apparently) no automated targeting. Autonomous accuracy is much likely to be higher than teleop.

Second, it sure looks like 1648 was missing high for the first volley, then low for the second volley. One would expect a fan would cause consistent high misses.

Sadly, there isn't footage there of 1648 shooting without the fan in front of them. If I had some evidence that 1648 was dead accurate in teleop without that fan, then I would certainly believe the fan was having a significant effect.

[PVCpirate]

1648 was missing low shooting over that. Combine that with the autonomous results and I must conclude that any nearby tigers are in hiding.

You can clearly see the frisbee being pushed up and missing high on the first 3 teleop shots. They only miss low after changing positions to the side of the pyramid, and they have to back up to find a good spot to shoot from.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Gu8q9ODBU in this match I counted 9 for 12, in 3 cycles (3,4,2 respectively).

[EricH]

I don't know of any teams using them this year.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/38644

You have now been informed of a VERY LARGE fan mounted on a robot by an FRC team. (How it did, I don't know offhand.)

[Lil' Lavery]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/38644

You have now been informed of a VERY LARGE fan mounted on a robot by an FRC team. (How it did, I don't know offhand.)

Now take a look at their competition robot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy4iNwGEb3k

[EricH]

Now take a look at their competition robot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy4iNwGEb3k

Ah, so they were having a little fun with the posted picture. Wonder if they were testing their shooter against it, on the chance that someone would try it.

[GaryVoshol]

Ah, so they were having a little fun with the posted picture. Wonder if they were testing their shooter against it, on the chance that someone would try it.

I saw them unbag at Traverse City. "Where's the fan?" It was just a joke. The picture was supposed to infer that they could fly to the top of the pyramid.

[Calvin Hartley]

Ah, so they were having a little fun with the posted picture. Wonder if they were testing their shooter against it, on the chance that someone would try it.

We were testing our ability to fly to the top of the pyramid.

[Anupam Goli]

You can clearly see the frisbee being pushed up and missing high on the first 3 teleop shots. They only miss low after changing positions to the side of the pyramid, and they have to back up to find a good spot to shoot from.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Gu8q9ODBU in this match I counted 9 for 12, in 3 cycles (3,4,2 respectively).

After that match, I talked to the drivers, and they confirmed that despite the aiming light shining in the sweet spot, the shots were going high as a result of the fan, and when changing positions on the 2nd cycle, they shot thinking "fanbot" was in the way, when it wasn't.

After we got back from palmetto, our students were still riled up about the "fanbot", so much so that they voted to install a fan on the top of the bot, but common sense took over and told them to improve the shooter so that fans wouldn't be a problem in the first place. However, one of our mentors brought a fan into Peachtree as part of our withholding allowance, just in case there was a Dozer on our eliminations alliance ;) .

[Dad1279]

I don't have a picture, but I'm almost 100% positive 869 has a giant fan on their robot.

From TCNJ:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads22/photo+1+1363981212.jpg

[compboy07]

No pics here either, but our team also had a giant fan (22" COTS with custom duct and a CIM).
The problem was that you needed to have a significant distance between the fan and the goal and the other robot had to actually be able to shoot over the bot for it to be of much use. We achieved infamy in our regional, but took it off because only about 2 teams had a robot that could shoot over another from midcourt or the other side. The fan had little impact on close range, so we mounted our half-finished shooter instead.

Also: the duct had blinking leds in it. It was epic.