View Full Version : Petition to end the shouting of ROBOT
I "think" I've commented on this thread before... but a recent event at a scrimmage made me think of this again.
Standing near the field entrance, waiting for a match to end to ask officials about a lost robot part (!), a group of three students (from a long-standing veteran team) waiting to enter the field SHOVED past me saying "Robot!" I was literally the ONLY person within a 5' radius, and there was plenty of room. I almost lost my cool, but as a teacher I remembered these are students, and this was a teachable moment.
I stopped them and said, "Next time, you should say 'Excuse me,' and not push a person to the side." They nodded and went on their way.
Who knows if this had an impact. But team captains and mentors need to enforce this sort of courtesy among their crews. At competitions I've escorted a cart with robot and drive team through a crowd with barely a word. The key is not being rushed, I suppose.
The Robodox will not shout "Robot" (or any other word that implies that we have an inherent right of way) while moving our robots at an event. We will exercise courtesy when moving our robot, making sure that everyone is as safe as possible.
We will also graciously encourage other teams to follow our example.
- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox
Ryan Dognaux
26-02-2014, 14:40
Safety Theater
I love this term. I want to see a Safety Theater Captain button.
Conor Ryan
26-02-2014, 15:24
I would also like to remind everyone that there is a petition that was started in 2013: http://www.change.org/petitions/first-stop-encouraging-teams-to-shout-robot
I think if we can get enough people to sign this petition we might be able to get it implemented in the rules next year! This thread alread has 20,500+ views! Based off of this document: http://www3.usfirst.org/aboutus/first-at-a-glance that is a significant portion of the FRC body!
Can this thread finally die? Please? It is not going anywhere, it is never going to go anywhere, and it serves no purpose other than creating enmity.
If you dissolve all of the conflations between the actual use of "Robot!" as a means to let people know they're in the way (which is perfectly fine, unless you have some sort of overbearing negative reaction to the word "robot") and the plethora of unrelated rude/disruptive behaviors described over the length of the thread, there's really not even that much to discuss. There's no point for 16 pages of debate about word choice.
No it cant or should not die, its still a problem that needs to be corrected.
techhelpbb
26-02-2014, 15:56
No it cant or should die, its still a problem that needs to be corrected.
RRR...OOO...BBB...OOO...TTT!!!
:yikes:
IronicDeadBird
26-02-2014, 19:31
Looks like its the end of robot marco polo...
The other Gabe
26-02-2014, 20:27
The issue comes in with the giant masses of people who hang around their pits, and won't move for politness (usually because they don't hear). and also, yelling that is fun to do, in my opinion :D
efoote868
26-02-2014, 20:52
The issue comes in with the giant masses of people who hang around their pits, and won't move for politness (usually because they don't hear). and also, yelling that is fun to do, in my opinion :D
Leave the cheering in the stands.
Speak up and/or tap them gently on the shoulder. Ask them nicely to move, they will move.
If you ask them nicely to move and they outright refuse, what makes you think that yelling would be any more effective?
Make your grandmother proud. Keep the noise pollution down in the pits.
DampRobot
26-02-2014, 21:56
I for one don't have a problem with people yelling robot. I mean, there are ways to be impolite about it, but I don't have any problem with people letting me know they need to get through with their robot.
There are a lot of clueless people (especially non-FIRSTers) just standing around the aisles in the pits, and at times it becomes necessary to loudly let them know that there is a 150lb, 5 foot high piece of hardware that needs to get through. Sometimes, robots just need to get through quickly in order to get to a match on time.
The music at FRC events annoys me about ten times as much as yelling robot does. Anyone want to start a petition to stop that, at least on Thursdays?
Chris is me
26-02-2014, 22:04
There are a lot of clueless people (especially non-FIRSTers) just standing around the aisles in the pits, and at times it becomes necessary to loudly let them know that there is a 150lb, 5 foot high piece of hardware that needs to get through. Sometimes, robots just need to get through quickly in order to get to a match on time.
If only there was some other way to let someone know they have to move.
Yelling sucks. Have a member of the drive team walk several feet in front of the robot, asking individuals in the way to move. This person should have enough of a lead on the robot to be able to tap shoulders, explain things, etc. This is how we have done it for the past two years and it works very well, though for some reason safety judges always seem to prefer having us shout.
You never *have* to yell.
Never ever have ever ever (that's four evers on the ever scale) had to yell anything to get through the pits with our robot (especially robot) and that includes every Boilermaker regional with probably the smallest most crowded pits in all of FRC.
On the other hand I have had ROBOT yelled right in my ear on many occasions when there was nothing blocking the passing team at all.
Brandon Holley
26-02-2014, 23:04
It doesn't matter how crowded or loud the pit area is, shouting "Robot!!!" blindly into general ear space of nearby people is completely unnecessary.
I do take offense to it because for years I have made my team put the (small amount of) effort into avoiding doing this and adding to the noise level of the competition. We simply send someone ahead of the robot/drive team to politely move people out of the way by saying(not yelling) things like "excuse us" or gently tapping folks on the shoulder.
Seems to be working great for us and is certainly less disruptive/abrasive than yelling.
-Brando
Signed. This irritates me to no end.
Never ever have ever ever (that's four evers on the ever scale) had to yell anything to get through the pits with our robot (especially robot) and that includes every Boilermaker regional with probably the smallest most crowded pits in all of FRC.
On the other hand I have had ROBOT yelled right in my ear on many occasions when there was nothing blocking the passing team at all.
This is so true. FIRST students are very courteous and aware of the need to move robots around. It does not take much to get them to clear a path. Yet, I have had robot yelled at me from close range many times when the path ahead was already clear. And often the yelling is so loud and close it makes my ears ring. It makes me wonder if some students actually enjoy startling people this way. I volunteer as a robot inspector so I need to be in the pit area a lot and find it not just annoying, but at times to the point of being a hearing hazard, and occasionally so startling as to be dangerous if you are using tools, or near any moving parts.
Now I carry ear plugs with me and have started to wear them while in the pits. It seems effective and my ears no longer ring after a long day in the pits. The down side is that I no longer hear my phone ring, I never hear announcements over the PA, and I cannot hear some of what the students say when explaining things about their robot. It is not ideal, but it seems like the best option for now, since the situation seems to have gotten to the point where we may actually need to be concerned about hearing loss.
CENTURION
27-02-2014, 22:33
It seems to me that different people use "ROBOT!" in different ways.
I always heard that the reason for it was as a general warning for people in the area; "watch out, there's 200+lbs of robot and cart moving near you, and you should be aware of it". So nobody takes a blind step backwards into the aisle, or makes any quick movements that could get them hurt.
Sort of the same way forklifts and trucks beep when backing up.
It's definable not a substitute for "Excuse me, we need to get through here".
And yeah, you don't need to shout it at the top of your lungs, just loud enough that people in the aisle near you can hear it.
The music at FRC events annoys me about ten times as much as yelling robot does. Anyone want to start a petition to stop that, at least on Thursdays?
I've poked a little bit of fun at the amount of bass at the Sacramento Regional. Those guys crank it up over there.
Easing back on the volume would help with communicating in the pits, but we would lose the overpowering sea of bass atmosphere at competitions that I hold so dearly in my heart; which I can literally feel when the bass is really going!
I agree with keeping the volume down on set up and practice day, but when matches start, the loud music kinda completes that competition atmosphere, but it does get obnoxious at times.
If you're gonna play loud music, let it be METAL! \m/
Easing back on the volume would help with communicating in the pits, but we would lose the overpowering sea of bass atmosphere at competitions that I hold so dearly in my heart; which I can literally feel when the bass is really going!
What you hold so dear to your heart is fundamentally unsafe and is often loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss. It is a complete shame that FIRST does this at regionals.
MasterCommander
28-02-2014, 09:58
What you hold so dear to your heart is fundamentally unsafe and is often loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss. It is a complete shame that FIRST does this at regionals.
I've never had that be a problem at any regionals I've attended, but if it is where you are, then I would bring some earplugs or some over ear headphones along. They usually muffle the noise nicely while still being able to hear talk.
discobrisco
28-02-2014, 10:31
I would like it to be quieter at regionals as well. I hate all the excess noise and this would be a good way to start cutting back.
efoote868
28-02-2014, 10:40
What you hold so dear to your heart is fundamentally unsafe and is often loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss. It is a complete shame that FIRST does this at regionals.
I think there's an opportunity for teams to demonstrate safety here instead of participating in safety theater - measure sound intensity and hand out ear plugs for hearing conservation. Would be much safer than yelling "ROBOT."
Wayne Doenges
11-03-2014, 07:23
At Crossroads, I was talking to Andy Baker and Samir (formerly Team 1501) in an area away from the robot pits, when a team came off the field and yelled "ROBOT" when they could have easliy gone around us. There was plenty of room to go around.
Thursday at Crossroads I had a student yell robot right in my ear. Needless to say I didn't let it pass without a comment.
{raises hand} To save the sanity, and hearing, of everyone in the pits and stands, I agree we should end the hollering of "ROBOT!". Also, when someone inadvertently spent close to a team/robot after they yell, they are snapped at, as if the yelling of "ROBOT!" automatically keep everyone away.
At the palmetto regional I thought that there were much less people yelling robot than last year there were only a couple of teams yelling when there was no reason to.
Zuelu562
11-03-2014, 10:15
As a queuer at GSDE, I had more than a couple teams literally following me out of the pit to the queuing area. Most teams only said something about "Robot" when there was a crowded aisle (something the Safety Advisers were aware of) and as I walked ahead of these teams I often said something like "hey heads up, there's a robot coming in just a second guys." as I passed by groups of people ballooning outside the area of the pit. It wasn't bad, but it's still around. I'm going to do my best to make sure people are aware of an incoming robot, but also not wake up the students in the Campus Center at WPI. :D
colin340
11-03-2014, 10:27
{raises hand}
We have a megaphone that we say, "Exuse us, robot coming through." or "Please hold up, robot coming through."
yeah if you could go ahead and stop that, that would be great.
SIGNED!!!!!!!!
Most of those that have problems moving through the pits and elsewhere usually have a team of followers yelling and no one in front of the robot. I usually stop in front of them and explain the better way to do it. Sometimes works, sometimes not.
Monochron
11-03-2014, 14:27
When someone obnoxiously yells 'ROBOT' in my ear I cover that ear, act offended, and tell them to be careful next time "safety is important". It usually produces a nice confused effect in the person because they think they were being safe by yelling.
Calling out the very thing they do for safety as unsafe itself is the best thing I have found to rustle people's jimmies.
Wayne Doenges
11-03-2014, 15:02
ROBOT!!!!!!!!!!
HUMAN!!!!!!
HUMAN!!!!!!
Please, do not do either of these things at competition. If you shout "HUMAN" at the top of your lungs in response to someone shouting "ROBOT" at the top of their lungs (as people have mentioned doing earlier in the thread), you are contributing to the problem just as much as they are. It is not witty, it does not discourage bad practice, and it generates unneeded animosity. Don't do it.
Alan Anderson
11-03-2014, 16:12
If you shout "HUMAN" at the top of your lungs in response to someone shouting "ROBOT" at the top of their lungs (as people have mentioned doing earlier in the thread), you are contributing to the problem just as much as they are. It is not witty, it does not discourage bad practice, and it generates unneeded animosity. Don't do it.
I agree completely. The appropriate response is a calm explanation of a better way to do things.
However, in a different context, it can generate amusement and appreciation. I've called out "HUMAN!" on a couple of occasions when a group of students was standing in the natural path of pedestrian traffic -- but never in the pits, and never in response to an inappropriate shout of "ROBOT!"
TheOtherGuy
11-03-2014, 16:17
Maybe I was in the right place at the right time, but I never heard it shouted at Hub City a few days ago.
Maybe Texans are just polite.
David Brinza
11-03-2014, 18:23
I was a key volunteer at Inland Empire and spent almost all of my time there in the pits. I was amazed at the number of students who would shout "ROBOT!" while standing in their pits, sometimes when no robot was not moving near them!
I asked these students to stop shouting, explaining the pits are already noisy enough. One mentor asked me why I confronted his student for just having fun. Geez, I suppose it would be OK to shout in classrooms because it's fun, right??
I told the offending students (and several mentors) about this thread in CD. They didn't think I was serious. I hope at least a few took the time to check this thread to better understand the issue.
Mark Sheridan
11-03-2014, 18:31
I have been to Mcmaster-Carr's facility at Sante Fe Springs, I am amazed how crazy it is, and I never seen forklifts driven so fast. Yet, its so quiet. Everyone knows where they can stand and where shipments flow through. I was there for 2 hours and the only time I hear a forklifts horn is when they are driving through the parking lot. Sometimes quiet is important so you can hear the real emergency.
GaryVoshol
11-03-2014, 18:48
HUMAN!!!!!!
REFEREE!!!!!!
(I tried that once; didn't work.)
xXhunter47Xx
11-03-2014, 18:58
I tried not to yell it at the SD Regional, but just loudly pronouncing it did not help. People would continue to stand in the way even if I yelled it. It wasn't just general public in the pits either, it was other teams standing blatantly in the middle of the pathway and they still wouldn't move.
brandon.cottrell
11-03-2014, 19:00
While walking through the pits I have the sudden urge to shout robot and then quickly walk through crowds of people just to see their reaction.
Reminds me of that one video where the guy has the bicycle bell and he rings it to get past people on the street.
Daniel_LaFleur
11-03-2014, 19:00
In my many years in FIRST, I have seen people step backwards, unawares, into a robot that was in the crowded isle because nobody yelled "robot".
In a place where people who do not understand dangers can walk into them (IE a crowded and noisy pits, with thin isles), I will yell out the danger to them, including the word 'ROBOT'.
No one deserved to get injured to avoid another being annoyed.
Safety trumps annoyance in my book.
BrendanB
11-03-2014, 19:03
In my many years in FIRST, I have seen people step backwards, unawares, into a robot that was in the crowded isle because nobody yelled "robot".
In a place where people who do not understand dangers can walk into them (IE a crowded and noisy pits, with thin isles), I will yell out the danger to them, including the word 'ROBOT'.
No one deserved to get injured to avoid another being annoyed.
Safety trumps annoyance in my book.
That's why have someone walk in front of the robot quietly and respectfully telling everyone, "Excuse us, we have a robot coming through".
Daniel_LaFleur
11-03-2014, 19:12
That's why have someone walk in front of the robot quietly and respectfully telling everyone, "Excuse us, we have a robot coming through".
Brendan. You know that is usually what I do (Being at GSR for 12 years), but every once in a while a "ROBOT COMING THRU" is needed and more efficient.
Now I'll agree that many times yelling 'ROBOT' is not needed, but I won't sign a petition that prevents me from keeping someone else safe.
Mark Sheridan
11-03-2014, 20:26
Brendan. You know that is usually what I do (Being at GSR for 12 years), but every once in a while a "ROBOT COMING THRU" is needed and more efficient.
Now I'll agree that many times yelling 'ROBOT' is not needed, but I won't sign a petition that prevents me from keeping someone else safe.
Yeah, next time I am getting groceries I will tell people to get out of my way cause I might hurt them with my shopping cart.
Seriously, if safety is an issue when you move your robot, your moving it wrong. I have moved a lot heavier stuff at an IKEA without incident. That is a lot harder to do with IKEA crowds and little children everywhere.
May I ask, why do you feel moving your robot is unsafe? I feel very safe with my robot, its properly supported by the cart, there are bumpers on every edge of the robot, I fold up my robot to reduce protrusions, we are walking slowly and there is a person in front of the cart kindly saying "Excuse me, I have a robot coming through" seems easy and safe to me.
Wayne Doenges
11-03-2014, 20:38
Please, do not do either of these things at competition. If you shout "HUMAN" at the top of your lungs in response to someone shouting "ROBOT" at the top of their lungs (as people have mentioned doing earlier in the thread), you are contributing to the problem just as much as they are. It is not witty, it does not discourage bad practice, and it generates unneeded animosity. Don't do it.
I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER yelled "Human" at the top of my lungs. I turn toward the yelling student and tell them "Human".
...Seriously, if safety is an issue when you move your robot, your moving it wrong. I have moved a lot heavier stuff at an IKEA without incident. That is a lot harder to do with IKEA crowds and little children everywhere...
You didn't even mention the fact that Ikea has those goofy carts with casters on all four corners. That makes it a wonderful challenge to avoid unsuspecting passers by.
I don't think anyone would say that you can never call out "robot" if there is an emergency (think moving down an isle and a texting student approaching), just that nobody should be walking around screaming it at every possible chance. I hate the sound of yelling. We have been lucky enough to compete where pits are actually decently quiet, and I truly enjoy having a conversation as if I wasn't at a construction site. If someone doesn't heed our tap on the shoulder and polite direction, I'm going to raise my voice. But I won't do that to every person I see as I walk to the field.
I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER yelled "Human" at the top of my lungs. I turn toward the yelling student and tell them "Human".
This isn't all that helpful, either, unless you follow it up by telling them that yelling is unproductive and contributes to an unsafe environment (in which case it doesn't really add anything).
I don't think anyone would say that you can never call out "robot" if there is an emergency (think moving down an isle and a texting student approaching), just that nobody should be walking around screaming it at every possible chance.
This seems to me to be a correct appraisal of the situation.
Daniel_LaFleur
11-03-2014, 20:55
May I ask, why do you feel moving your robot is unsafe? I feel very safe with my robot, its properly supported by the cart, there are bumpers on every edge of the robot, I fold up my robot to reduce protrusions, we are walking slowly and there is a person in front of the cart kindly saying "Excuse me, I have a robot coming through" seems easy and safe to me.
I have seen a person take a step backwards on to a short robot on a low cart and fall on top of the robot (where there are no bumpers). The team pushing the robot did not yell anything (especially not "robot") and the person in question backed out of a pit (was not directly in front of the robot). Said person was taken to the first aid station with a few cuts. Needless to say, in this day and age of lawsuit silliness, I will on occasion yell "robot".
You may do as you please, but again I believe safety trumps annoyance (It seems that this is a minority belief here :( ).
Mark Sheridan
11-03-2014, 21:03
I have seen a person take a step backwards on to a short robot on a low cart and fall on top of the robot (where there are no bumpers). The team pushing the robot did not yell anything (especially not "robot") and the person in question backed out of a pit (was not directly in front of the robot). Said person was taken to the first aid station with a few cuts. Needless to say, in this day and age of lawsuit silliness, I will on occasion yell "robot".
You may do as you please, but again I believe safety trumps annoyance (It seems that this is a minority belief here :( ).
I think yelling robot is no excuse for unsafe practices of moving a robot or moving around your environment in general.
Do you see where I am coming from? There are many similar situations you described above, airports luggage, production lines, and etc. Many production lines had streamline safety to avoid sirens and etc.
I have seen a person take a step backwards on to a short robot on a low cart and fall on top of the robot (where there are no bumpers). The team pushing the robot did not yell anything (especially not "robot") and the person in question backed out of a pit (was not directly in front of the robot). Said person was taken to the first aid station with a few cuts. Needless to say, in this day and age of lawsuit silliness, I will on occasion yell "robot".
You may do as you please, but again I believe safety trumps annoyance (It seems that this is a minority belief here :( ).
Excuse me while I go walk backwards across an intersection and I will make sure to get mad at anyone who hits me because they didn't hook their horn to alert me that they were there.
Daniel_LaFleur
11-03-2014, 21:19
I think yelling robot is no excuse for unsafe practices of moving a robot or moving around your environment in general.
Do you see where I am coming from? There are many similar situations you described above, airports luggage, production lines, and etc. Many production lines had streamline safety to avoid sirens and etc.
I do see, and understand where you are coming from. And I agree that yelling is no excuse for unsafe practices (BTW: your statement is called a strawman argument, as I never said it was an excuse for acting unsafe, but you insinuated I meant that). That being said, informing those, who may not be paying attention, that there is a hazard in the area is prudent.
Again, I'm not for yelling "ROBOT" all the time, but I refuse to sign a petition that will keep me from alerting an otherwise oblivious person to a clear and present danger.
Mark Sheridan
11-03-2014, 22:37
I do see, and understand where you are coming from. And I agree that yelling is no excuse for unsafe practices (BTW: your statement is called a strawman argument, as I never said it was an excuse for acting unsafe, but you insinuated I meant that). That being said, informing those, who may not be paying attention, that there is a hazard in the area is prudent.
Again, I'm not for yelling "ROBOT" all the time, but I refuse to sign a petition that will keep me from alerting an otherwise oblivious person to a clear and present danger.
Sorry for pulling a strawman. my friends and i use that one too much, we will accuse each other positions until we sort it out. I guess it lends itself to making jokes at each other expense instead of actually making an point. Well enough of the red herring about red herrings.
Well I see your position a bit more clearly. To avoid putting more words in your mouth are you saying your reserving your right to yell to prevent a sudden accident or more of a general alert of the proximity of the robot?
I think Sanddrag intent in his original post to eliminate a need of using "Robot" as a siren or alarm. The need to alert someone immediately prevent an accident is not what this petition is about. there is no need for the continual reminders of robot presence. Shouting something to avoid a fall or collision is not what i am trying to address.
I'd like to go on record as a vote in favor of "Robot".
You know those beepers on the back of trucks when they back up? They're a safety item. They're to get attention. They're required by law and they save lives.
Sure, yelling "Robot" isn't saving lives, but the purpose of it is to make people aware that a big thing is coming through and they have to move. Most of those people's attention is focused elsewhere when the 'bot comes by.
Absolutely, you don't need to be 'rude' or 'arrogant' to yell robot, and you don't need to be excessively loud either. But in some pits, whether you're late or not, you'll need to clear the crowd to move a drive team through the pits.
And I've heard students reminesce about tournaments and that was one of the most fun things they remembered.
Sure, yelling "Robot" isn't saving lives, but the purpose of it is to make people aware that a big thing is coming through and they have to move. Most of those people's attention is focused elsewhere when the 'bot comes by.
Robot traffic should stop for people, no one should 'have to' move out of the way to avoid injury. As many have stated, having one or two people infront of the robot is plenty to get people to step aside.
Invictus3593
12-03-2014, 10:36
The only reason my team does this is because we don't want to hit someone with our robot. If you're moving pretty quickly, there is a safety hazard present that you may hit a parent who doesn't know or a small kids who's running around. My point is, you don't know what could happen in the pits and, as you've already pointed out, they are loud and abnoxious. This means no one will automatically hear your robot coming and move out of the way.
So to recap my opinions:
1. It is necessary for safety
2. It's not arrogant, it's looking out for someone else
3. I agree, but do you have a better solution?
4. If keeping the pits safe is rude, yes
5. This point is just a repeat of 3
6. The bystanders are the ones who need it the most because they don't know that robots come through.
7. The "general public" that comes into a robotics competition should expect to see weird things at our events
8. The other teams yell to further the message to anyone in the way
9. With repitition, it becomes second nature to people that cooperate, this is not bad
10. How does it create a safety hazard? It's not like every time we yell "robot" someone's ears explode. If it does anything bad, it simply annoys people like you
11 No, it doesn't. Having done it for 4 years, I don't expect people to move out of the way, it's only announcing that a safety hazard is coming through the aisle.
12. I dont understand your wording here
I would like to work with everyone here to find a better way to announce the robot, even in the case that you're in a hurry. If I offended anyone in this I am sorry, I did not mean to. These are simply my opinions and that of my team.
I'll sign once I'm sure no one will be hurt by our robot coming through the aisle.
I would like to work with everyone here to find a better way to announce the robot, even in the case that you're in a hurry.
In the OP you responded to the questions in:
Some of you may ask, "Well how can you move a robot safely without yelling 'ROBOT!' ?" It's simple. We're never in a rush, we look where we're going, and if for some reason we do encounter some impediment to our travel (which happens only rarely), we politely and in a reasonable volume say "excuse me" followed by a "thanks."
Chris is me
12-03-2014, 10:43
I do see, and understand where you are coming from. And I agree that yelling is no excuse for unsafe practices (BTW: your statement is called a strawman argument, as I never said it was an excuse for acting unsafe, but you insinuated I meant that). That being said, informing those, who may not be paying attention, that there is a hazard in the area is prudent.
Again, I'm not for yelling "ROBOT" all the time, but I refuse to sign a petition that will keep me from alerting an otherwise oblivious person to a clear and present danger.
It would make sense to yell if you had little control of the robot, but you can stop the robot. If you have to tell someone very quickly or else they'll be in danger, then stop the cart. Then you don't have to yell.
We've been late for matches, rushing to the field, whatever, and we haven't had to shout robot in two years. On the off chance you absolutely have to, one time, no one is going to judge you. That's not what's going on.
I don't buy this "necessary" argument one bit. It's only necessary if you feel entitled to rush your robot through the pits as fast as you can go.
... safety hazard present that you may hit a parent who doesn't know or a small kids who's running around.
6. The bystanders are the ones who need it the most because they don't know that robots come through.
How on earth, is a parent who's never been to a competition or a small child running around(who shouldn't be in the first place) supposed to know what to do when they hear someone yell "ROBOT"?
I would like to work with everyone here to find a better way to announce the robot, even in the case that you're in a hurry.
If you aren't in a hurry, tap people on their shoulders and politely ask them to move. If you are in a hurry, how about yelling "Robot coming through, excuse us!" or "Watch out, robot coming through!"
I highly doubt you go running through the shop yelling "ROBOT" so why should you do it at a competition?
1. It is necessary for safety
2. It's not arrogant, it's looking out for someone else
3. I agree, but do you have a better solution?
4. If keeping the pits safe is rude, yes
5. This point is just a repeat of 3
6. The bystanders are the ones who need it the most because they don't know that robots come through.
7. The "general public" that comes into a robotics competition should expect to see weird things at our events
8. The other teams yell to further the message to anyone in the way
9. With repitition, it becomes second nature to people that cooperate, this is not bad
10. How does it create a safety hazard? It's not like every time we yell "robot" someone's ears explode. If it does anything bad, it simply annoys people like you
11 No, it doesn't. Having done it for 4 years, I don't expect people to move out of the way, it's only announcing that a safety hazard is coming through the aisle.
1. Then you're doing safety incorrectly. Plenty of teams, not to mention industries, manage their transportation safely without yelling. If you're in danger of hitting a small kid running around--if you're creating a potentially unsafe situation at all, you need to change your behavior, not your vocalizations. It is our job to avoid others. If there's no way though, ask them to move gently and directly. Ask because you need to get through, not because it's unsafe--it shouldn't be in any way unsafe to begin with.
2. Yes, say "excuse me".
6. The bystanders don't need to be yelled at to inform them of this. It's effectively crying wolf.
8. This is entirely unnecessary. If someone is actually in your way, ask them to move. Don't relay the message to areas that are not or not yet in your path. Again, people who are actually hampering movement are less likely to respond.
10. The louder we make it, the harder it is to hear actual emergencies. It is distracting, and while I'm glad your answer to 11 is true for you, it enforces a sense of entitlement for many, which enhances the danger.
I would like to work with everyone here to find a better way to announce the robot, even in the case that you're in a hurry. If I offended anyone in this I am sorry, I did not mean to. These are simply my opinions and that of my team.
I'll sign once I'm sure no one will be hurt by our robot coming through the aisle."Please excuse our robot." If someone is not within that standard listening distance, they are not in your way. If a standard movement they could make could cause them injury on your robot, you're doing it wrong.
Richard Wallace
12-03-2014, 12:52
Is barging through a crowded place, while yelling* at people to get out of your way, a good example of professional behavior? Of graciousness?
If you don't know, ask your grandmother.
------
*Robot! Or any word.
If yelling anything is part of safety practice, then we're not doing enough.
Safety Rule T6: In order to maintain safe robot transportation during an event, all teams must employ the follow safety procedures:
1. A ROBOT moving through the pit must be accompanied by emergency lights flashing yellow at all corners of the ROBOT or cart that transports the robot.
2. An alarm of no less than 100db must blare a continuous "siren-like" warning to alert people that there is a ROBOT in the vicinity that may be moving on a cart.
3. The ROBOT or cart must be surrounded by soft fluffy pillows or cushions of no less than 5" depth (tastefully upholstered) from a height of 6" to 60" from the ground.
4. A moving robot must be proceeded by a team member wearing an "international orange" safety vest who must carry an incense burner not unlike a thurible...
Seriously, of course you can yell "Look out!" or "Stop!" or "Don't move!" or even "Robot behind you!" whenever there might be an impending collision. The problem is that so many are yelling when it is NOT necessary that it completely removes any impact that such appropriate warnings might have. It's like yelling "FIRE!!!" "FIRE!!!" over and over again to warn people of the possibility of a fire.
- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox
I'd like to go on record as a vote in favor of "Robot".
You know those beepers on the back of trucks when they back up? They're a safety item. They're to get attention. They're required by law and they save lives.
Sure, yelling "Robot" isn't saving lives, but the purpose of it is to make people aware that a big thing is coming through and they have to move. Most of those people's attention is focused elsewhere when the 'bot comes by.
And the beepers are NEVER on when the truck is moving forwards. Imagine for a few minutes that every beeper on every truck starts up whenever it's in a drive gear, reverse, forwards, whatever.
How fast do you think you'd start ignoring them?
Right. The point of the beepers is to inform people that a truck is moving in reverse and that the driver probably can't see behind him very well because the truck body is blocking his view, thus they NEED to know so they can get out of the way. When the same truck is in forwards, the driver can see what's in front of him, and the driver has responsibility to avoid anything in the way.
The shouts of robot are: The truck using its beeper when in a drive gear, accompanied by every car on the road in some cases. VERY annoying, and if used too much, VERY ignored. That's why we want to reduce the use as much as possible. Can it be effective? Yes--in the right situation. Are there better ways? YES. Like having one of your 4-person drive team going in front of the robot to clear a path.
What about putting a horn on the robot cart and hoping it gets people out of the way?
Yeah. I think I'll skip that [at least for now]. Playing with the horn on our 2012 bot was only fun the first time ;)
I think there needs to be some hotword that should be used. What about tobar?
artdutra04
12-03-2014, 22:52
The shouts of robot are: The truck using its beeper when in a drive gear, accompanied by every car on the road in some cases. VERY annoying, and if used too much, VERY ignored. That's why we want to reduce the use as much as possible. Can it be effective? Yes--in the right situation. Are there better ways? YES. Like having one of your 4-person drive team going in front of the robot to clear a path.
It's a well known fact that in some parts of the world such as China, you gain right of way while driving by honking more than the other driver.
http://i.imgur.com/aSjxHs5.jpg
// Well actually only half lying. There are definitely people there who think they can gain right of way by honking more. :rolleyes:
robochick1319
17-03-2014, 20:00
I believe that the best compromise is this:
"Excuse us, robot coming through!" This saying alongside 1 or 2 robot escorts should be enough to clear enough space for traveling through. Encouraging students to NOT say ANYTHING creates more hazards when moving robots.
Alan Anderson
17-03-2014, 23:59
The team pushing the robot did not yell anything (especially not "robot") and the person in question backed out of a pit (was not directly in front of the robot).
1: A team pushing a robot should not be yelling anything. The risk to others is at the front of the robot, where the robot will be in a moment, not where the robot has already been. A vanguard or two should be walking ahead of the robot, calmly making sure people know that a robot is coming through.
2: Someone backing out of a pit without looking isn't likely to be magically protected from tripping backwards over something by a shout of ROBOT!, especially if he wasn't paying enough attention to his environment to hear a preceding warning, but I agree that it makes sense to call attention to the imminent collision.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but first of all, at WPI this weekend, I was absolutely appalled to see teams rushing through the pits, yelling robot. Maybe my memory over exaggerated this but the speed that people were going, robot in tow, was just astounding.
Also, as for the Safety Award, 157 got runner-up for Safety at WPI and we do not yell robot on our team when escorting. Maybe that was the particular judges at WPI this past weekend, but food for thought.
(Also, I spoke to the judges and I know that not yelling robot was not the reason we received runner-up.)
Safety Sophie
18-03-2014, 10:49
I believe that "ROBOT" should only be yelled if teams are not responding to team members kindly asking them to get out of the way. "ROBOT" has turned into a sort of white noise at this point..
Of course, teams should still notify all people around them that a robot is in transit. I'm just not sure if this is the way to do it. The Safety Manual states:
Transporting:
o Make sure the robot is stable on the cart before transporting.
o Keep the cart under control at all times, especially when removing or placing the
robot.
o Do not include music on your robot cart.
o Use patience and control when moving the robot, especially in crowded areas. Do not run.
o Ensure that the cart will not roll away or pose a hazard, especially upon robot
removal. Use a chock block if necessary.
o Use the gate opening when entering/exiting the playing field. Climbing over the railing is prohibited.
There is nothing in the transportation rules that demand teams to yell "ROBOT" in the pits. There is, however, a rule which states that teams may not play music on their carts. Just something to think about.
SAFETY FIRST
"ROBOT" has turned into a sort of white noise at this point.
No kidding; people were shouting simply for the sake of shouting it at the NC regional. I even overheard a few mentors encouraging their students to shout louder, when the path was completely clear and there was no reason to alert anyone of anything.
robochick1319
18-03-2014, 12:29
No kidding; people were shouting simply for the sake of shouting it at the NC regional. I even overheard a few mentors encouraging their students to shout louder, when the path was completely clear and there was no reason to alert anyone of anything.
In contrast, one of the biggest problems I saw at the NC Regional was the lack of people guiding their robots or even saying something polite about "robot coming through." I was nearly clipped several times each day by teams that had no one out front and no one saying anything. I even saw several teams almost bulldoze their own members as they entered/exited their pit without saying anything.
Between the two extremes of yelling for no reason and not saying anything, I have to say I prefer yelling. Annoying, somewhat. But not nearly as annoying as almost being run over time after time after time.
Nate Laverdure
18-03-2014, 12:52
No kidding; people were shouting simply for the sake of shouting it at the NC regional. I even overheard a few mentors encouraging their students to shout louder, when the path was completely clear and there was no reason to alert anyone of anything.
I confronted the Safety Advisors about this at the NC Regional but was shrugged off. This kind of behavior was then explicitly reinforced during the awards ceremony. Frustrating.
Everyone who doesn't like to hear "ROBOT! COMING THROUGH!" is invited to the Israeli regional next year, that practice thankfully didn't make it over the pond to us! (yet! :eek: )
Everyone who doesn't like to hear "ROBOT! COMING THROUGH!" is invited to the Israeli regional next year, that practice thankfully didn't make it over the pond to us! (yet! :eek: )
Or come to Boilermaker this weekend. If you shout robot here you will be quickly corrected :)
Zebra_Fact_Man
18-03-2014, 14:35
Is there any actual realistic endgame to this thread? Or are we talking to talk (like in other threads)? You can't MAKE people stop doing something regardless how hard you try, ESPECIALLY if people feel justified that they're doing it in the name of safety. Good luck trying to convince them otherwise; you're fighting a nearly impossible uphill battle.
At first I found this thread interesting, then humorous. Now it's just sad. There are some people that are gunna keep yelling robot and that's the way of things.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080202231407/uncyclopedia/images/1/11/Beating-a-dead-horse.gif
gabrielau23
18-03-2014, 14:35
I think ROBOT!!!!!!! should really only be used as a last resort. If tapping people on the shoulder, or kindly telling them, "Excuse me, there's a robot coming through," with a person or two in front of the main robot entourage, you might just have to in order to avoid running them over.
That sounds good. If anyone is reading my comment. .... Flub...flub blub flub
Chris is me
18-03-2014, 14:56
Is there any actual realistic endgame to this thread? Or are we talking to talk (like in other threads)? You can't MAKE people stop doing something regardless how hard you try, ESPECIALLY if people feel justified that they're doing it in the name of safety. Good luck trying to convince them otherwise; you're fighting a nearly impossible uphill battle.
At first I found this thread interesting, then humorous. Now it's just sad. There are some people that are gunna keep yelling robot and that's the way of things.
You can't use correlation to imply causation, but since the publishing of this thread, I have heard "ROBOT!" shouted way less. This idea has informed Chief Delphi posters and lurkers of the downsides of shouting ROBOT! - they may not have even considered it before. This thread has informed teams on alternate, safe ways to clear a path through the pits. And even now, people are posting and changing their minds on this issue. Just because you've gotten the message doesn't mean everyone has.
themccannman
18-03-2014, 15:06
This is a silly thread.
Georgiawho
18-03-2014, 16:18
I also think the yelling of ROBOT is a tradition. No one gets hurt by yelling, and yelling ROBOT prevents people from running into the robot, getting hurt, etc. I think it's all part of the game process, and it's all in good fun.
I personally find the yelling of ROBOT as tradition. its not hurting anyone, and it gets the job done faster than quietly asking everyone to move. If you tried to get through the pits of GSR by quietly asking every single person to move, it would take 10 minutes to get through. Its just one of those things that makes a competition what it is.
Elgin Clock
01-03-2015, 23:15
This is a silly thread.
I also think the yelling of ROBOT is a tradition. No one gets hurt by yelling, and yelling ROBOT prevents people from running into the robot, getting hurt, etc.
Agreed! It's tradition, and no matter what anyone believes, it works.
I disagree with just yelling ROBOT, but yelling "ROBOT COMING THROUGH" is much more effective.
As the "District model" takes precedence and slowly becomes the norm, the pits become smaller and smaller and more people (or even the same amount of people as Regionals) make a more congested area for robot transportation.
Rudely yelling ROBOT should be discouraged, but yelling something to grab the attention of all those darn people in the way as robots are trying to queue up, is necessary!
I for one will NOT be signing this silly petition.
But then again, I'm old school.
I have learned that (even at the team event years ago at the Altlanta Aquarium) yelling ROBOT makes robotics folks move out of the way even when not at the competition site.
We've all been trained well in that regard. :yikes: :p
techhelpbb
01-03-2015, 23:22
Next time I am stuck in the pits trying to help a team.
I think I will yell "HUMAN COMING THROUGH" and see if anyone moves :rolleyes:.
Usually I just tap someone on the shoulder. They turn. Look up and I say 'excuse me' and they move.
On the other hand... as pits were emptying from IE, someone pushing a bagged robot rolled up to a group of people, with room to go around them, and yelled "ROBOT" two or three times before they all moved out of the way.
Myself and another ref who both saw this looked at each other and went "You know, if this had happened during the event, that might have been a G15. He had room to go around."
Jon Stratis
02-03-2015, 00:15
Shouting robot to get people's attention is fine. Asking them to move in crowded pits is fine. Simply shouting robot and assuming that gives you the right of way is not. I honestly can't count the number of times I've been run down or seen others run down by teams pushing robots who just didn't have the sense to slow down and wait for things to clear in front of them once they've alerted people to their presence. It's rude, dangerous, and disrespectful of everyone else around you.
Caleb Sykes
02-03-2015, 00:37
Rudely yelling ROBOT should be discouraged, but yelling something to grab the attention of all those darn people in the way as robots are trying to queue up, is necessary!
In every other situation in life, pedestrians have the right of way. This is no different. If a janitor with a cart full of cleaning supplies needed to get past me in a crowded area, and decided to yell "CLEANING SUPPLIES" while rushing at me, I would stop his cart with my hand and tell him that he needed to slow down and calm down. If he told me that he had a cleaning competition that he was supposed to be at 1 minute ago, and that's why he was rushing, I would tell him that this gives him absolutely no right to be disrespectful to others.
Additionally, shouting ROBOT is not at all something I want when I am showing off the pits at my event to spectators. I brought my young cousins into the pit once, and they were huddled next to their mom as they usually do when travelling. However, in the pits they were all visibly frightened because 3-4 teams rudely rushed past yelling "ROBOT." They huddled even closer to their mom after that, and one of them stayed frightened for much of the rest of the day.
Is that really what we want? If I were those kids, I would leave the event thinking that robots are scary, and that all students in FIRST are big mean jerkheads who don't care at all for the well being of others. If little kids think this, what do you think corporate sponsors think when touring the pits?
Will there be people in your way as you travel with your robot? Yes.
Will they often be not paying attention to their surroundings? Yes.
Is it ever appropriate to shout "ROBOT" to get people out of your way? No.
If you think the answer to my last question should be different, then I encourage you to tell a janitor sometime to yell while moving their supplies past people. If they give you a funny look in response, it's probably a bad idea.
IronicDeadBird
02-03-2015, 00:42
We should start a petition to end this thread unless someone has something new to bring to the table. Its like a time capsule from 2013
ShawnTheProgram
02-03-2015, 01:30
But then what can I tell all the new pit people to do while they flail and assist in touching the robot while its being pushed?
While I do agree people yelling "Robot!" is a bit rude I find people just milling around the field entrance and blocking robots even more rude (which was a constant problem in Dallas). As my trainie Zoe pointed out "People have no sense of awareness of what's going on around them. They are either mesmerized by what's going on the field, chatting away with their friends or staring at their phone. What they're not doing is paying attention to what's going on around them. These are people who if they become engineers will be working in industrial area when heavy equipment is prevalent and they will not be yelling ROBOT when you are in your own world in their way. They're just gonna go right through you.
This thread needs more accountability towards the general public: start paying attention or stay out of the pits and in the stands if you can't be bothered to do so.
Wayne Doenges
02-03-2015, 15:14
Not to divert this thread but why do people need to stand in the middle of the lanes (or entrance)to talk to another person? Move over to the side and talk.
We now return you to your regulary scheduled thread.
Rangel(kf7fdb)
02-03-2015, 15:23
While I do agree people yelling "Robot!" is a bit rude I find people just milling around the field entrance and blocking robots even more rude (which was a constant problem in Dallas). As my trainie Zoe pointed out "People have no sense of awareness of what's going on around them. They are either mesmerized by what's going on the field, chatting away with their friends or staring at their phone. What they're not doing is paying attention to what's going on around them. These are people who if they become engineers will be working in industrial area when heavy equipment is prevalent and they will not be yelling ROBOT when you are in your own world in their way. They're just gonna go right through you.
This thread needs more accountability towards the general public: start paying attention or stay out of the pits and in the stands if you can't be bothered to do so.
After a year or two of robot shouting being discouraged I tend to agree. Perhaps instead of just discouraging robot shouting, signs be put up and hourly announcements are made informing spectators and teams to try not to stand in the center of aisles. I know our drive team the last few years and myself when I was still a student on the team would do the tap on shoulder method but especially for large crowds, it's very slow and sometimes they flat out ignore you forcing you to shout(by this I mean raise voice a lot so they can actually hear). With more notice to spectators and teams, robot shouting and the tap shoulder and excuse me method is no longer needed as often.
Super energetic and over enthusiastic Safety judges at FIM Howell competition reminded me the word reprimand! One of the team bringing robot back from field had called excuse me twice and tried to draw a gentleman's attention by tapping on the shoulder. A safety judge who saw schooled the team and asked to yell robot. One of the team member said it was against the rule, which lead to a short lecture on common sense.
In Michigan, volunteers do a good job, especially where robots going in and out cross path, they stop robots returning to pit and let robots go to field.
After a year or two of robot shouting being discouraged I tend to agree. Perhaps instead of just discouraging robot shouting, signs be put up and hourly announcements are made informing spectators and teams to try not to stand in the center of aisles. I know our drive team the last few years and myself when I was still a student on the team would do the tap on shoulder method but especially for large crowds, it's very slow and sometimes they flat out ignore you forcing you to shout(by this I mean raise voice a lot so they can actually hear). With more notice to spectators and teams, robot shouting and the tap shoulder and excuse me method is no longer needed as often.Signs don't work.
Far too many FIRST-aholics suffer from Selective Illiteracy: They can't read signs that have subject matter they don't care about.
Signs don't work.
Far too many FIRST-aholics suffer from Selective Illiteracy: They can't read signs that have subject matter they don't care about.
I think I developed it from the 10,000th "wear your safety glasses" sign taped to a restroom wall.
Anupam Goli
02-03-2015, 17:08
Signs don't work.
Far too many FIRST-aholics suffer from Selective Illiteracy: They can't read signs that have subject matter they don't care about.
I think I developed it from the 10,000th "wear your safety glasses" sign taped to a restroom wall.
I say blame the safety award for this illness (disease?).
I say blame the safety award for this illness (disease?).
You gotta have something to aim for if your robot is overweight due to the welded on decorations.
Carolyn_Grace
02-03-2015, 18:09
Adding to the litter in this thread...
Not one person was heard shouting "robot" at the inaugural Indianapolis District event this year.
And no one was run over by a robot, got in the way of other teams, or was injured by a robot cart.
It was wonderful.
Wayne Doenges
03-03-2015, 07:48
Adding to the litter in this thread...
Not one person was heard shouting "robot" at the inaugural Indianapolis District event this year.
And no one was run over by a robot, got in the way of other teams, or was injured by a robot cart.
It was wonderful.
That's what I noticed too. Very quiet in the pits. Other teams could learn from this :D
Mr. Tatorscout
03-03-2015, 16:24
Personally, I yell "Dead Horse!" whenever I'm dragging one through the shopping mall. People are very appreciative of this, especially when the horse is starting to putrefy.
PayneTrain
03-03-2015, 17:01
You gotta have something to aim for if your robot is overweight due to the welded on decorations.
Carrying an overweight robot doesn't sound very safe.
Also shout out to safety advisors at an unnamed week 1 regional I attend that told teams to yell robot and at one point told our drive team "if your robot is moving your mouth should be!"
Alan Anderson
03-03-2015, 17:28
Also shout out to safety advisors at an unnamed week 1 regional I attend that told teams to yell robot and at one point told our drive team "if your robot is moving your mouth should be!"
Am I misunderstanding your use of the phrase "shout out", or are you actually approving those safety advisors' advice? It sounds like they didn't get the memo from FRC HQ about not shouting "Robot!"
robochick1319
03-03-2015, 18:20
Am I misunderstanding your use of the phrase "shout out", or are you actually approving those safety advisors' advice? It sounds like they didn't get the memo from FRC HQ about not shouting "Robot!"
No one at GSCR (as far as I could tell) had sounds on their carts, which is what FRC HQ referenced as being OK to replace the whole yelling thing. And some teams weren't really leading their robots or saying "robot coming through" or anything of the sort. I'd rather have people clearly and loudly (i.e. not screaming for no reason) "Robot!" than have carts clipping my heels (which happened more than once at the event).
PayneTrain
03-03-2015, 18:37
Am I misunderstanding your use of the phrase "shout out", or are you actually approving those safety advisors' advice? It sounds like they didn't get the memo from FRC HQ about not shouting "Robot!"
In retrospect my comment was so sarcastic it circled around to seeming genuine. Whoops.
GaryVoshol
03-03-2015, 18:39
Adding to the litter in this thread...
Not one person was heard shouting "robot" at the inaugural Indianapolis District event this year.
And no one was run over by a robot, got in the way of other teams, or was injured by a robot cart.
It was wonderful.
Well of course not, it was at Lawrence North. And I've never heard anyone yelling "Robot" at IRI.
Carolyn_Grace
03-03-2015, 20:14
Well of course not, it was at Lawrence North. And I've never heard anyone yelling "Robot" at IRI.
I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, but I do believe that the majority of the teams at this past weekend's Indianapolis District event had never attended IRI.
PayneTrain
03-03-2015, 20:17
I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, but I do believe that the majority of the teams at this past weekend's Indianapolis District event had never attended IRI.
I think he was suggesting that anyone who shouted the dreaded word was summarily "disappeared" by its hallowed halls or something.
DarkRune
03-03-2015, 23:29
I mean sure, I yell robot. And by yell robot I mean "Excuse me, robot coming through." And by yell I mean say politely. And yes, it would be nice to end this yelling of ROBOT
Richard Wallace
04-03-2015, 07:57
Well of course not, it was at Lawrence North. And I've never heard anyone yelling "Robot" at IRI.
I'm not sure exactly what the numbers are, but I do believe that the majority of the teams at this past weekend's Indianapolis District event had never attended IRI.
I'm sure Carolyn is right about the number of teams at the Indianapolis District that have not previously been to IRI (as competitors).
However, I think Gary's point is still valid.
I am from Augusta, Georgia. My hometown includes a golf course that hosts a famous tournament every year called The Masters. To me, Lawrence North High School plays a similar role in FRC to the one played by the Augusta National Golf Club in that sport. The venue is very nice, but the quality and tone of the event is set mainly by the people who work at it -- the event planners, the hosts, and most especially the volunteers.
So, if there are many volunteers who come both to the Indianapolis District and to IRI, then the expectations for quality and tone of the two events should be similar also -- even if the level of competition is not.
I have not been to a competition yet so I have not experienced the pleasure of "ROBOT".
Two thoughts:
Any warehouse I've been in that used heavy equipment usually only had sound for backing up (forklifts and motorized pallet jacks). Some were all the time and I can understand a preference for that direction.
Never on a construction site have I heard anyone yell "WHEELBARROW"
....
Never on a construction site have I heard anyone yell "WHEELBARROW"
The difference in construction site and a FIRST tournament site is, at the former, construction workers are busy building or carrying stuff. Where as in the later, pits are buzzing with activity, drive teams and robots are hurrying to field, others hurrying back to pit to prep for next match which could be 2 matches away. Then the halls and pits are full of mentors & students who are not on or near the field, and visitors who are standing and appreciating everything that is going on. These two places are not even close for comparison!
We will be carrying cowbell, the cone shaped brass one, its legal!
Richard Wallace
04-03-2015, 11:20
We will be carrying cowbell, the cone shaped brass one, its legal!Cowbell > "ROBOT!"
:D
I apologize for bumping this thread and probably starting another circular discussion, but here goes.
This weekend was my first gig at my new job - representing United Therapeutics as a sponsor of teams. I traveled to the Orlando Regional with some coworkers (and my boss!) to see our sponsored teams play, and to give our FL employees a chance to see FIRST up close so they could get connected with the program.
We were walking through the pit, excited to meet one of our "Team UniTher" teams up close, and a volunteer yelled robot, right in our ears. Okay, one bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch, right?
It was an absolute epidemic. Every time someone's robot was on a cart I could hear students screaming. Not even in the "pardon me, robot coming through!" way. These students were outright rude, and absolutely not at all self-aware about how unnecessary it was. I've (unfortunately) become pretty immune to the senseless yelling, but my coworkers were certainly not.
It was a really quick way of alienating potential volunteers, mentors, and sponsors. I came in with enthusiastic people, and they left the pit with a bad taste in their mouth. It's one thing to have a safe aisleway to move your robot, but entirely another to be so obnoxious that you alienate spectators who, minutes earlier, were jumping out of their seats to go see the robots up close.
I'm not trying to knock this one regional in particular, or its teams, because we had a fantastic time overall - but it was the first time I've really noticed how off-putting it is to those who don't just blindly accept safety theater as safety culture.
Again, stop yelling robot. A simple "Excuse me, heads up, robot coming through" in an indoor voice will suffice. Your robot is not more important than the humans in the room.
The yelling of "ROBOT" should properly cease in the name of lower decible range hearing safety, and each Robot Cart for the 2015 FIRST FRC season should be equipped w/ a mild sound system playing a nice fairly quiet melody of "Ice Cream Truck Music"...As everyone who has ever purchased a sweet cool treat from one of those sweet musical trucks knows....Everyone pays attention to Ice Cream Trucks, most always look toward the sweet sound of the melody, or at least look for where that "sweet sweets music" is coming from anyway.
Just imagine whole venue competition pit areas filled w/ nothing but the soft sounds of drilling, sawing, some mild hammering...and lots of sweet pleasant Ice Cream Truck Melodies! (Of course the really slick thing is to have an Ice Cooler onboard too, and actually sell the sweet treats as an additional fundraising outlet, on the way to & from the field too! With both venue permission, and a valid local Health Dept. Permit of course).:D
It was an absolute epidemic. Every time someone's robot was on a cart I could hear students screaming. Not even in the "pardon me, robot coming through!" way. These students were outright rude, and absolutely not at all self-aware about how unnecessary it was.
This.
I was at the Orlando Regional as well, volunteering as an inspector. I could hear robots in the far opposite side of the pits "coming through".
There was one instance where I was going back to the pit with a team to do their inspection that really struck me. The Orlando pits were super crowded with narrow aisles and lots of people standing around pit entrances. The team I was following was yelling ROBOT, and when they hit a crowd they couldn't move (the people were faced away from them) they continued to yell ROBOT at the back of their heads until someone noticed and turned around. I couldn't believe it.
For the most part, if you tap one person on the shoulder and say, "Excuse me, robot coming through" they tend to get the rest of their party out of the way quickly as well. They're not trying to be in your way.
Alan Anderson
15-03-2015, 12:49
In Kokomo this weekend I twice gently corrected two people who inappropriately shouted ROBOT. One was in his team's pit as their robot departed; another was actually sitting up on a set of bleachers against the wall. I told each of them that people shouldn't be warning others of an oncoming robot unless they are walking in front of that robot, because otherwise they are taking attention away from where it needs to be.
A few people on one team did consistently call out ROBOT in a loud-but-not-yelling voice as their robot was in transit, which was mildly annoying. However, they were one of the few teams that consistently had a vanguard clearing the way for their cart, and it didn't seem to be a contagious yell, so I didn't make an effort to find the source and ask them to take it down another notch.
sanddrag
15-03-2015, 19:46
Things were rather quiet in Los Angeles this year. I think I only heard two teams say "Robot!" all weekend, and it was at a medium volume in a manner which was not at all disruptive or rude. It was really nice to see this prior issue resolved at this event.
I suppose at this point in time I should move on to other worthwhile efforts such as starting a petition to end the playing of the chicken dance song....
FRCmediaMan
15-03-2015, 21:09
I have to agree, especially when we have the general public coming in to view and see what these events are.
Utah had a couple of teams that wouldn't shut up. We had a great time overall, and yes, it's good to let people know there's a robot behind them by saying "excuse me", but after 11 years it is getting really old. A new one this year: students from one team twice nearly punched me in the nose with a small bag of "safety materials" while shouting "In the Spirit of Safety!"
Zebra_Fact_Man
15-03-2015, 23:17
The yelling of "ROBOT" should properly cease in the name of lower decible range hearing safety, and each Robot Cart for the 2015 FIRST FRC season should be equipped w/ a mild sound system playing a nice fairly quiet melody of "Ice Cream Truck Music"...As everyone who has ever purchased a sweet cool treat from one of those sweet musical trucks knows....Everyone pays attention to Ice Cream Trucks, most always look toward the sweet sound of the melody...
It's so silly it just might work...
Might try this over the summer.
If we really do want people to stop yelling "ROBOT," there needs to be a system in place to keep people out of the walkways and have their conversations elsewhere. It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot." I agree yelling "ROBOT" can be rude, however, the real problem needs to be addressed.
If we really do want people to stop yelling "ROBOT," there needs to be a system in place to keep people out of the walkways and have their conversations elsewhere. It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot." I agree yelling "ROBOT" can be rude, however, the real problem needs to be addressed.
Its not that difficult actually. Just always have someone out front like 2-3ft from the cart loudly, but not necessarily yelling, saying "excuse us" or "look out".
If we really do want people to stop yelling "ROBOT," there needs to be a system in place to keep people out of the walkways and have their conversations elsewhere. It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot." I agree yelling "ROBOT" can be rude, however, the real problem needs to be addressed.
With all due respect, there is a better system. You talk about it being difficult to have to walk around your cart, could you instead have someone else on your team walking in front of the cart doing just that?
I'm not going to say that there isn't over-congestion in the pits, because there definitely is sometimes. But the solution should isn't being rude to them until they decide to leave.
I suppose at this point in time I should move on to other worthwhile efforts such as starting a petition to end the playing of the chicken dance song....
This is a cause I can get behind!
If we really do want people to stop yelling "ROBOT," there needs to be a system in place to keep people out of the walkways and have their conversations elsewhere. It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot." I agree yelling "ROBOT" can be rude, however, the real problem needs to be addressed.
You have four people on the drive team that are a part of the robot's transport out to the queue - one's pushing the cart, another holding the controls. That leaves you two, and you can use at least one of them to help clear the pathway.
Think of it this way:
.....................Person 1
....................... / \
..................[__Robot_]
...Person 2? [__Cart__ ] Person 3?
................. [ _______ ]
....................Person 4
Person 4 is pushing the cart. Person 2/3 can maintain space around the sides of the cart (if they're not holding something cumbersome like the control board), and can fall back behind the cart when there's not much room.
Person 1, in front, can be saying things (in a medium-strength-indoor-voice) like "Excuse us, robot coming through!" "Heads up!", when it's necessary. That is not rude.
What is rude is the teams who feel they have to scream ROBOT! at the top of their lungs every five feet because 'it's the way to be safe', even when aisleways are clear. As Alan said, it takes attention away from somewhere else, where there may actually be an issue.
You have four people on the drive team that are a part of the robot's transport out to the queue - one's pushing the cart, another holding the controls. That leaves you two, and you can use at least one of them to help clear the pathway.
This is plausible in the ideal case where other teams aren't crowded around their own pits. At Champs and most Regionals I've been to, the all-sides entourage works most of the time. Yet even shouting robot doesn't work when people in the pits aren't paying attention because they're focused on their own pit.
In Pittsburgh, even with team 48 shouting 'robot' for everyone, and me saying excuse me while leading the cart, there were still people with their backs to the aisle who would jump out into the aisle without looking. We got some nasty looks, as if to say "why aren't you shouting robot?". In my head my gut reaction was 'Natural Selection suggests we shouldn't blindly sprint in the pits' (bad, I know...) but I after a minute I simply understood why many teams feel compelled to shout it. The kid who jumped tripped on the cart and caught himself. It could have been much more catastrophic had he been a second later, jumping on the robot and hurting himself and/or causing the robot to fall off the other side of the cart. We could fault someone for not paying attention to the 'robot' shouting, or fault 48 for causing people to tune out the 'robot' shouting, or fault me for saying excuse me rather than shouting it, or ... whatever.
Point is, I don't know if there's a catch-all for this.
Woody910
16-03-2015, 10:06
At the Palmetto Regional, I know I personally got told by the green shirts that "When the robots moving, your mouth should be moving." And was asked to keep yelling robot. Even though it seems extremely unnecessary to me, I was asked to do so.
BrendanB
16-03-2015, 10:44
At the Palmetto Regional, I know I personally got told by the green shirts that "When the robots moving, your mouth should be moving." And was asked to keep yelling robot. Even though it seems extremely unnecessary to me, I was asked to do so.
Interesting. We've been at competitions this year and last year where teams were asked to not shout robot. Personally I think screaming robot is very rude in addition to being an ineffective method of clearing an aisle.
For the most part there are three types people in an FRC aisle: you, FRCers in a rush to go from point A to point B, and visitors who have no idea whats going on. The FRCers hear you scream robot, know that its there, are partially annoyed you are screaming, and will most likely continue moving on the same path because we all have somewhere to be. Visitors hear that, are startled, and have no clue whats going on because they are already overwhelmed.
Be polite and send one person in front of the cart and ask everyone to politely move in a calm manner even if you are late for the match. Its not hard to do and reflects volumes on the character of your team.
Alan Anderson
16-03-2015, 14:28
It's really difficult to have to walk around to the front of your cart to tell someone, "Excuse me, I need to get through here with my robot."
The solution to this "difficult" problem is obvious:
Just always have someone out front like 2-3ft from the cart...
...could you instead have someone else on your team walking in front of the cart...?
You have four people on the drive team..., and you can use at least one of them to help clear the pathway.
Be polite and send one person in front of the cart...
Too many drive teams seem to treat the robot as a mother duck and trail along behind it. Instead, think of it as a valuable artifact and give it an honor guard.
If there is a problem with people blindly stepping out into the path of a robot after the vanguard has passed, I offer a possible mitigation strategy. Have the vanguard carry a banner or a flag or other device, with brightly colored streamers trailing it and connected to the front corners of the cart. That will help keep the way clear and call people's attention to exactly the right place.
GreyingJay
16-03-2015, 15:10
I didn't think it was excessive at GTR Central. People said "Robot" in a slightly louder than normal voice, we all figured it out. There was no outright screaming, not at least by my definition of it. I thought it was kind of fun.
My pet peeve? People who were SPRINTING down the pit aisles trying to get from point A to point B. I have a real issue with that given the number of collision possibilities with robots, with sharp objects sticking out of robots, with cabinets filled with heavy tools, with people actively operating power tools, etc.
GreyingJay
31-03-2015, 09:57
Funny story. I just got back from the North Bay regional (great weekend by the way!) At the end of the day a few teams went to a local restaurant for dinner. So, there were a lot of us standing in the lobby area, chatting, waiting to be seated, and servers were madly scrambling to configure the tables to seat everyone.
At one point two servers were trying to move a table through the crowd. They were saying "Excuse me" but having a hard time moving through the group. A few of us called out "Robot!" and suddenly there was a clear path through :D
brandon.cottrell
31-03-2015, 15:58
At Ventura last week we got by with just a simple "Excuse us", usually it takes a second but people will move out of the without even looking as to what it is that's trying to get past them because it's kind of second nature.
Andrew Schreiber
31-03-2015, 16:03
The solution to this "difficult" problem is obvious:
Too many drive teams seem to treat the robot as a mother duck and trail along behind it. Instead, think of it as a valuable artifact and give it an honor guard.
If there is a problem with people blindly stepping out into the path of a robot after the vanguard has passed, I offer a possible mitigation strategy. Have the vanguard carry a banner or a flag or other device, with brightly colored streamers trailing it and connected to the front corners of the cart. That will help keep the way clear and call people's attention to exactly the right place.
And this is what safety advisors are suggesting this year. :)
Wayne Doenges
16-03-2016, 12:53
I hate to revive this old thread but it is still a problem.
I have seen and heard people shouting "ROBOT" when there is NO ONE in front of them. It's usually the person pushing the robot cart so they are behind the robot and they don't take into consideration that they are yelling into people's ears.
I have even heard them shouting from outside of the pits.
Since we have a banner this year, why doesn't the person holding the banner lead the robot caravan and ask politely for people to move?
GreyingJay
16-03-2016, 13:01
My team has tried to set an example by gently calling out (not YELLING), "excuse me please, robot coming through, excuse me please" as we slowly work our way through crowded pit aisles.
Sperkowsky
16-03-2016, 13:05
Since we have a banner this year, why doesn't the person holding the banner lead the robot caravan and ask politely for people to move?
That's what we did. I would hold the standard up in front and say excuse me. Worked pretty well.
I sign.
Besides, many teams yell robot and however manage to hit people.
Better be cautious and silently arrive to your pits.
Zebra_Fact_Man
16-03-2016, 16:14
Ah, if it isn't my favorite thread. Again.
GaryVoshol
16-03-2016, 16:19
Since we have a banner this year, why doesn't the person holding the banner lead the robot caravan and ask politely for people to move?
And if that doesn't work, you can whack 'm with it? ;)
TheBoulderite
16-03-2016, 16:28
At Arizona North this last weekend, I don't think I heard anyone yell robot once. So, there is hope!
GreyingJay
16-03-2016, 16:32
Ah, if it isn't my favorite thread. Again.
We only yell "robot" when the mentors built it.
mentos54
16-03-2016, 16:37
We were yelling robot at first during week 1, but were actually asked to stop by other teams :D seems like teams are communally deciding this is a bad tradition
arizonafoxx
16-03-2016, 16:42
I had a team yell robot at my back. The first time I admit that I did not respond to it. Probably because I am so immune from hearing it all day and did not think it was directed at me. The second time they screamed ROBOT!!. I turned around and politely told them screaming robot at the back of my head does not indicate which direction you would like me to move. Which is completely true. I could have easily heard that scream and moved right into the path of the robot just as easily as I could have moved out of the way again not knowing fully if it was directed at me or not. I guess I should state that this happened around the practice field area, not in the aisle of the pits. The polite thing to do is have someone out in front of the robot saying excuse us robot coming on your right/left. If they don't hear you lightly touching their arm or back and say it again.
Comparison between places I've competed:
Michigan:
When I started in 2007, yelling "ROBOT" was common. Now, not so much. There is plenty of space in the aisles between the pits for drive teams to move their robots, and usually a simple "excuse us" is enough to get people out of the way.
PNW:
Navigating the pits at PNW district events can be crazy sometimes. At any point in time during a competition, there seem to be quite a few team members standing outside many teams' pits. If you are trying to queue for a match quickly, there will be plenty of people in the way. Yelling "ROBOT" is extremely common, to the point of being expected.
If I say something like "excuse me" as I'm trying to get through a crowd, the crowd's members will actually start yelling "ROBOT" for me.
I do think it's super weird.
Worlds:
There is usually ample space between the pits, and there are marked out lanes for robot traffic. Yelling "ROBOT" is unnecessary and rare.
Alan Anderson
16-03-2016, 16:56
PNW:
Navigating the pits at PNW district events can be crazy sometimes. At any point in time during a competition, there seem to be quite a few team members standing outside many teams' pits. If you are trying to queue for a match quickly, there will be plenty of people in the way. Yelling "ROBOT" is extremely common, to the point of being expected.
Wouldn't it be more helpful to keep the pit area less cluttered with unnecessary team members standing around? I'm also not sure how crying "ROBOT" will help in such a crowded situation. How are people going to know which way to move unless someone is walking in front of the robot to help clear a path, and why wouldn't that path-clearing be just as effective with targeted requests to make room instead of a general broadcast that a robot is somewhere nearby?
teslalab2
16-03-2016, 17:04
I vote YES!!! I would always yell excuse me, coming through, because yelling robot just didn't sit right with me. I got yelled at by judges for saying excuse me..........
Saying "Robot" has been something I have done throughout my time in FRC. And this year, already, I have had to pull/push my team's cart around and people refused to get out of the way. If anything, in my opinion, experienced members need to enlighten incoming FIRST members that "Robot" generally means to clear a path for robots.
IronicDeadBird
16-03-2016, 17:08
Saying "Robot" has been something I have done throughout my time in FRC. And this year, already, I have had to pull/push my team's cart around and people refused to get out of the way. If anything, in my opinion, experienced members need to enlighten incoming FIRST members that "Robot" generally means to clear a path for robots.
Saying excuse me works just as well, and for those in the pits who aren't familiar with the subtle nuances of a competition it doesn't actually help.
Andrew Schreiber
16-03-2016, 18:02
Saying "Robot" has been something I have done throughout my time in FRC. And this year, already, I have had to pull/push my team's cart around and people refused to get out of the way. If anything, in my opinion, experienced members need to enlighten incoming FIRST members that "Robot" generally means to clear a path for robots.
No, "Excuse me" generally means to clear a path. "ROBOT" generally means whoever is screaming it at you is a bit of a jerk.
Update: I don't recall hearing any safety judges telling teams to do it last year.
The Swaggy P
16-03-2016, 18:46
Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.
So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....
IronicDeadBird
16-03-2016, 18:47
Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.
So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....
Previous years rules don't always roll over. If you can cite somewhere in the manual where it says you should yell robot then by all means follow the rules.
Jon Stratis
16-03-2016, 19:06
Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.
So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....
I have never seen this as a rule in any FRC manual.
It's important to be able to quickly and easily clear a path for large objects moving through a crowd. That's why things like airport carts (the ones with a couple of benches for elderly or disabled people to get a lift to their gate) have both buzzers and lights. But those drivers still do their best not to run people over!
The biggest problem I have with people yelling "ROBOT" while moving through the pits is many of them seem to think it gives them the right to just plow through. I have been hit by multiple robot carts at just about every event I've attended, and scolded quite a few teams about it.
Be polite, be cognizant of the fact that people won't just jump out of your way, and above all be patient!
Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.
So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....
It is not a requirement. And the Safety Award is not based on it. You can stop yelling it.
Heard it a few times, usually from teams that I figure didn't know better. If it wasn't right next to me, I didn't change direction or speed. (And most of the ones right next to me were "excuse us, robot moving" or something like that.)
hkuperstein
16-03-2016, 20:58
Yelling "Robot" or something similar was definitely needed at our events this year. While we always said "Excuse us" in addition, usually it was parents talking to teams who weren't aware and needed us to get their attention. If the first time didn't work, we'd tap their shoulder and kindly ask them to make way for us. Our robot needed constant repair at both our districts so time was certainly of the essence... if we weren't in such a rush I'm sure we would have been a bit more patient.
GreyingJay
16-03-2016, 21:04
So I can yell "ROBOT!" when the autonomous code goes awry and the robot goes shooting across the aisle into our neighbor's pit, right?
My team didn't yell robot, we said excuse me every once in awhile but our pit was right on the end, next to the ques so we didn't travel that far. Due to the way our robot sits on our cart, you can't see in front of you so we usually have one to two people walking along the side of the robot to lead where you are going and help move people out of the way, kinda escort the robot.
Wayne Doenges
16-03-2016, 22:15
Worlds:
There is usually ample space between the pits, and there are marked out lanes for robot traffic. Yelling "ROBOT" is unnecessary and rare.
Last year, at World's, I had a team coming out of the arena yelling ROBOT with NO ONE in front of them for at least 50 feet.
Hitchhiker 42
16-03-2016, 22:24
Usually, when we move through the pits with our robot, we say "excuse us, robot coming through," or something similar. Incorporating both politeness and robotness.
ExplosiveNoble
16-03-2016, 23:40
At GTCR, people didn't shout it loud enough, and people were being jostled around so much that safety tokens were being taken away if your team didn't yell "ROBOT!" as you transported things. A very angry safety inspector came around to most pits to warn teams.
I have to agree, though. Unless a team is supposed to be on in a minute, this can be done much more quietly while still being safe.
IronicDeadBird
17-03-2016, 00:13
My TL:DR on this because this is truly one dead horse is.
As soon as you start valuing the robot more then you value the welfare of those around it then you need to really sit and evaluate the position you are in.
Having a robot doesn't mean you can't be polite
At the Greater DC district, all robot traffic ended up routed through one narrow hallway, and it was often clogged. I can't imagine what we would have done if no one had shouted "Robot!," or at least shouted something in a loud enough voice to alert you that they were trying to pass. If only we all had eyes in the back of our heads...
Carolyn_Grace
17-03-2016, 07:57
At GTCR, people didn't shout it loud enough, and people were being jostled around so much that safety tokens were being taken away if your team didn't yell "ROBOT!" as you transported things. A very angry safety inspector came around to most pits to warn teams.
I have to agree, though. Unless a team is supposed to be on in a minute, this can be done much more quietly while still being safe.
Stuff like this is ridiculous.
I'm the Senior VC for Indiana. I talked to the Safety Adviser at the Tippy District and told him that we pride ourselves on being polite in Indiana and treating people with respect. We expect our teams to put people before robots, every single time. I asked him that if he hears anyone yelling "Robot" to teach them a more polite and safer approach: having PEOPLE lead the way, tap people on shoulders, saying "excuse me," etc.
Our Safety Adviser was very receptive to this. I'll be requesting him back at our Indiana events.
Event Coordinators and Volunteer Coordinators absolutely should have similar talks with their Safety Advisers before the event starts.
Alan Anderson
17-03-2016, 08:43
Yeah, I would agree that shouting "ROBOT!" is annoying, but then again, I have been told by FRC Safety Advisors to yell it in previous years.
Safety Advisors are not always properly aligned with actual safety practices. I have seen them insist that students wear gloves when drilling. I have seen them physically pull students away from their work and shout in their faces. If what they are telling you does not seem reasonable, you should acknowledge that you heard it and get another opinion from somebody with more experience.
So until FIRST officially removes this requirement, and doesn't base a safety award off of it, I'll probably keep yelling it when the robot's moving around....
There was no such official requirement, and FIRST already explicitly discouraged it more than a year ago.
http://archive.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Software-Downloads-Administrative-Manual-Release
...stop yelling ‘Robot’ to let others know you have a robot on the move. Please.
At the Greater DC district, all robot traffic ended up routed through one narrow hallway, and it was often clogged. I can't imagine what we would have done if no one had shouted "Robot!," or at least shouted something in a loud enough voice to alert you that they were trying to pass. If only we all had eyes in the back of our heads...
Alternatively, we could have people in the front of the robot to calmly clear a path for it.
Alternatively, we could have people in the front of the robot to calmly clear a path for it.
...Who inevitably have to shout to get the mobs of people who are not looking at them to know that they're there, unless you want to tap every single person on the shoulder (having enough people in front of the robot to do this would probably make the problem worse).
Having a person in front of the robot is wise, but it doesn't make the problem magically go away.
...Who inevitably have to shout to get the mobs of people who are not looking at them to know that they're there, unless you want to tap every single person on the shoulder (having enough people in front of the robot to do this would probably make the problem worse).
Having a person in front of the robot is wise, but it doesn't make the problem magically go away.
You can get loud enough to be heard without screaming in someone's face. There is a difference between using a loud indoor voice, and being obnoxious. "Excuse me, robot coming through, we're on our way to a match, please move out of the way, Heads up" can be done with a voice that is heard over the 'mobs of people', without being rude.
What a lot of this thread takes issue with is the mindless screaming of ROBOT!!!! without concern for what's around the team.
Like this:
Last year, at World's, I had a team coming out of the arena yelling ROBOT with NO ONE in front of them for at least 50 feet.
That's just not alright.
The person in front of your cart is responsible for 'parting the waters' in a safe, logical, and polite way. If that means they have to tap some people on the shoulder, then they do it. Robots and people can coexist in the pits, pit aisles, walkways, you name it - as long as people are mindful of how their behavior actually affects others.
I posted something last year about how appalling (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1457684&postcount=361) it was for newcomers from my company to be screamed at by teams, so I won't do it again... but this isn't how we keep people from 'outside the tent'.
This is another one of those :deadhorse: topics, like paper airplanes, where some people think it's okay to be disrespectful just because 'it's the culture we already have'. Just because it's what some people have always done, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
notmattlythgoe
17-03-2016, 09:36
...Who inevitably have to shout to get the mobs of people who are not looking at them to know that they're there, unless you want to tap every single person on the shoulder (having enough people in front of the robot to do this would probably make the problem worse).
Having a person in front of the robot is wise, but it doesn't make the problem magically go away.
Just a warning, I know that this practice will be frowned upon at Hampton Roads this weekend. You will be asked to stop and have someone walk ahead of the robot asking people politely to move.
What a lot of this thread takes issue with is the mindless screaming of ROBOT!!!! without concern for what's around the team.
With all due respect, I think this thread does a lousy job of communicating that.
The title of the thread is "petition to end the shouting of ROBOT." Anything said in a voice loud enough to be heard at many competitions can be fairly considered "shouting," and I don't think there's any argument to be made that using the word "robot" is, per se, an inappropriate way of doing it (if you wish to use other words to supplement it for the sake of manners, that's fine, but I don't think that's such a pressing issue that it deserves its own thread).
Of course, "mindless screaming" of anything is neither useful nor appropriate. But a lot of shouts of "Robot!" are most certainly not that, and pointing that out is a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the title of the thread.
Just a warning, I know that this practice will be frowned upon at Hampton Roads this weekend. You will be asked to stop and have someone walk ahead of the robot asking people politely to move.
I won't actually be there, but I hope for the sake of all the teams involved that, if this is the case, there is nothing comparable to the chokepoint of that hallway at Greater DC.
With all due respect, I think this thread does a lousy job of communicating that.
The title of the thread is "petition to end the shouting of ROBOT." Anything said in a voice loud enough to be heard at many competitions can be fairly considered "shouting," and I don't think there's any argument to be made that using the word "robot" is, per se, an inappropriate way of doing it (if you wish to use other words to supplement it for the sake of manners, that's fine, but I don't think that's such a pressing issue that it deserves its own thread).
Of course, "mindless screaming" of anything is neither useful nor appropriate. But a lot of shouts of "Robot!" are most certainly not that, and pointing that out is a perfectly reasonable thing to do given the title of the thread.
You have a fair point there!
So here's my question:
What does "ROBOT!" accomplish that "Pardon me, Robot coming through, Heads up!" at similar volume doesn't?
You have a fair point there!
So here's my question: What does "ROBOT!" accomplish that "Pardon me, Robot coming through, Heads up!" at similar volume doesn't?
Nothing, but it's fewer syllables and naively projecting my own standards onto other people I don't see why anyone would care much one way or the other.
I openly admit that I don't understand a lot of social ritual, though, so it's entirely possible that I'm way out of the ordinary in not caring. But from my (admittedly biased) sampling of other people at competition, I've never met anyone else who feels otherwise.
notmattlythgoe
17-03-2016, 09:46
Nothing, but it's fewer syllables and naively projecting my own standards onto other people I don't see why anyone would care much one way or the other.
The better question is the opposite:
What does "Pardon me, Robot coming through on your left, Heads up!" accomplish that "ROBOT!" at similar volume doesn't?
The answer is a lot.
thedude019
17-03-2016, 09:51
GPR was generally good about keeping the pits under control. We never really had to scream robot just a polite "excuse us" or people were generally aware of robots approaching them.
The better question is the opposite:
What does "Pardon me, Robot coming through on your left, Heads up!" accomplish that "ROBOT!" at similar volume doesn't?
The answer is a lot.
Situationally, sure. Often one call of "Robot!" isn't enough to actually get people's attention, and a full sentence like that is a lot less awkward/downright annoying than chorusing "Robot! Robot! Robot!" would be.
But it's often the case that a single "Robot!" effectively gets people to look up, notice you, and clear out of the way. I observed this several times at DC, and didn't see anyone gravely harmed or offput by the lack of manners. So I have a hard time seeing the need to not do it.
Alan Anderson
17-03-2016, 10:57
But it's often the case that a single "Robot!" effectively gets people to look up, notice you, and clear out of the way. I observed this several times at DC, and didn't see anyone gravely harmed or offput by the lack of manners. So I have a hard time seeing the need to not do it.
A single "Robot!" shouted by the person pushing the cart is coming from the wrong place. In order to warn the ones in front of the cart it has to be very loud. It gets the attention of a lot of people. The majority of those people are not in the way. Such an action adds a lot more noise than it does safety.
The person doing the warning should be in front of the robot, not behind it. With that arrangement, the volume required to alert the people who need to be alerted should not need to rise to the level of a shout. Anyone in the way who doesn't react to a loudly spoken "excuse us, robot coming through, please watch out" is going to be close enough for the vanguard to touch the person on the shoulder or arm and get their attention without shouting.
notmattlythgoe
17-03-2016, 11:05
A single "Robot!" shouted by the person pushing the cart is coming from the wrong place. In order to warn the ones in front of the cart it has to be very loud. It gets the attention of a lot of people. The majority of those people are not in the way. Such an action adds a lot more noise than it does safety.
The person doing the warning should be in front of the robot, not behind it. With that arrangement, the volume required to alert the people who need to be alerted should not need to rise to the level of a shout. Anyone in the way who doesn't react to a loudly spoken "excuse us, robot coming through, please watch out" is going to be close enough for the vanguard to touch the person on the shoulder or arm and get their attention without shouting.
^
Shouting robot loudly is going to get the attention of more people than it needs to. Possibly taking their attention away from something that might have been more important than a robot that isn't near them.
GreyingJay
17-03-2016, 11:12
Nothing, but it's fewer syllables and naively projecting my own standards onto other people I don't see why anyone would care much one way or the other.
I openly admit that I don't understand a lot of social ritual, though, so it's entirely possible that I'm way out of the ordinary in not caring. But from my (admittedly biased) sampling of other people at competition, I've never met anyone else who feels otherwise.
The problem is that the shouting of "Robot!" has pass from a safety awareness imperative ("excuse me, coming through, you need to move out of the way") to part of FRC culture ("When someone says 'Robot', everybody else should yell 'Robot' too! As loud as you can! Whee, this is fun!!!")
If your cart is rolling down the aisle and someone from your team is walking in front of it, gently shouting "Robot! Robot!", this is useful information to work with. I can hear the voice and determine where it's coming from and how close I am to it. If I hear that the voice is very close to me, I surmise that the robot is also very close to me and I move out of the way. This is how it is supposed to work.
Instead, here's what actually happens: Your cart is rolling down the aisle. Everyone in your team, including the people behind the cart, is yelling "Robot!" People in the pits to your left and right hear you say "Robot!" and they too yell "Robot!" Any spectator nearby joins the chorus because, hey, it's fun and I think it's what I'm supposed to do.
So I hear a loud chorus and echoes of "Robot! Robot! Robot!" coming from all different directions. I hear this multiple times throughout the day as every team passes through. Is the robot close to me? Am I in the way? I can't even tell. 99% of the time, it's probably not, therefore I don't bother moving out the way, or even looking up.
It's like those car alarms you hear go off in the parking lot. Does anyone go up to look? Does anyone call the police? No, because you become desensitized to it.
TheOtherGuy
17-03-2016, 11:20
At Arizona North this last weekend, I don't think I heard anyone yell robot once. So, there is hope!
Quoted for truth, I don't recall hearing it once either. Maybe it was the venue size, hopefully it was the people :rolleyes:
If your cart is rolling down the aisle and someone from your team is walking in front of it, gently shouting "Robot! Robot!", this is useful information to work with. I can hear the voice and determine where it's coming from and how close I am to it. If I hear that the voice very close to me, I surmise that the robot is also very close to me and I move out of the way. This is how it is supposed to work.
This is how my team handles it. We have one person, a drive team member, who is known for yelling out "robot". He does it at what I would call a reasonable volume, and only when there is a significant blockage in front of us where multiple people need to move at once. He is usually behind the cart, but we do have people in front just in case people don't move so we don't run into them.
Personally I feel that if someone were to come up and ask us to stop, we would, but even this past weekend no one seemed to mind one bit, and would generally move to the side and go back to their business, so I don't see much harm.
Everybody around screaming at the top of their lungs over and over again all day is another story entirely.
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