View Full Version : 2013 Championship Curie Division
Navid Shafa
17-04-2013, 17:05
Break the Curse!
TEAMS/Names
16- Baxter Bomb Squad
67- The HOT Team
103- CyberSonics
120- Scarbian Knights
135- Black Knights
148- RoboWranglers
193- MORT Beta
230- Gaelhawks
233- Pink Team
234- CyberBlue
293- Team SPIKE
359- Hawaiian Kids
399- Eagle Robotics
435- Robodogs
540- TALON 540 Godwin Robotics
620- Warbots
781- Kinetic Knights
862- Lightning Robotics
932- Circuit Chargers
967- Iron Lions
968- RAWC (Robotics Alliance of west Covina)
1138- Eagle Engineering
1262- the STAGS
1288- RAVEN Robotics
1290- Si Se Puede
1306- BadgerBOTS
1310- RUNNYMEDE ROBOTICS
1421- Team Chaos
1503- Spartonics
1540- Flaming Chickens
1541- MidloCANics
1559- Devil-Tech
1577- SteamPunk
1622- Team Spyder
1678- Citrus Circuits
1684- Chimeras
1706- Ratchet Rockers
1708- AMP’D Robotics
1717- D’Penguineers
1735- Green Reapers
1810- Jaguar Robotics
1816- “The Green Machine”
1918- NC Gears
1923- The MidKnight Inventors
1939- The Kuh-nig-its
1983- Skunkworks Robotics
2039- Rockford Robotics
2056- OP Robotics
2062- C.O.R.E. 2062
2130- Alpha+
2145- HAZMATs
2168- Aluminum Falcons
2187- Team Volt
2220- Blue Twilight
2383- NINJINEERS!!!!!!!!
2489- The Insomniacs
2638- Rebels
2836- Team Beta
2910- Jack in the Bot
2936- Gatorzillas
2996- Cougars Gone Wired
3061- Husky Robotics
3138- Innovators Robotics
3239- Birds of Prey
3354- TecDroid
3374- RoboBroncs
3387- Les Aigles d’Or
3410- MotoRobo
3414- HackBots
3489- Category 5
3539- Byting Bulldogs
3660- Lightsabers
3753- BulahBots!
3824- HVA RoHAWKtics
3926- MPArors
3990- Tech for Kids/La techno. au service des jeunes
4063- TriKzR4Kidz
4080- Team Reboot
4091- DRIFT
4122- O-Bots
4124- Integration By Parts
4125- Confidential
4159- CardinalBotics
4320- The Joker
4464- Team Illusion
4488- ShockWave
4516- BT Bots
4523- Tigers
4543- Apollo Robotics
4564- BREWER
4576- Red Nation Robotics
4610- BearTecs
4645- X- Machina
4646- Team ASAP (As Sketchy as Possible)
4667- Synergy
4716- Purple Raiders
4761- Robocket
4781- Robo Spartains
4814- United Robotics of London
Thad House
17-04-2013, 17:07
The Curse is going DOWN this year!!!
Very excited - both teams I work with - 1923 and 4124 - are here.
Can't wait!
2056 Baby. WHOOOOOO.
(and us).
2056 + 67 + 1717? The curse WILL be broken this year.
This is going to be awesome! So many teams I've always wanted to meet.
OrangeCataclysm
17-04-2013, 17:42
Don't count 862 out! I'm excited to play with all these great teams
nicholsjj
17-04-2013, 17:43
It has to be very intimidating when you look at a division list for the FIRST time and see that the FIRST three teams on the list are FIRST Hall Of Fame teams. Looks like the Curse could get broken for the Madam this year.:D
minhnhatbui
17-04-2013, 17:43
3990 in Curie! :D
YAY 135 will be there! Sooo excited!
Team 1306 is excited to be in CURIE!
brrian27
17-04-2013, 18:04
List with team names :)
16- Baxter Bomb Squad
67- The HOT Team
103- CyberSonics
120- Scarbian Knights
135- Black Knights
148- RoboWranglers
193- MORT Beta
230- Gaelhawks
233- Pink Team
234- CyberBlue
293- Team SPIKE
359- Hawaiian Kids
399- Eagle Robotics
435- Robodogs
540- TALON 540 Godwin Robotics
620- Warbots
781- Kinetic Knights
862- Lightning Robotics
932- Circuit Chargers
967- Iron Lions
968- RAWC (Robotics Alliance of west Covina)
1138- Eagle Engineering
1262- the STAGS
1288- RAVEN Robotics
1290- Si Se Puede
1306- BadgerBOTS
1310- RUNNYMEDE ROBOTICS
1421- Team Chaos
1503- Spartonics
1540- Flaming Chickens
1541- MidloCANics
1559- Devil-Tech
1577- SteamPunk
1622- Team Spyder
1678- Citrus Circuits
1684- Chimeras
1706- Ratchet Rockers
1708- AMP’D Robotics
1717- D’Penguineers
1735- Green Reapers
1810- Jaguar Robotics
1816- “The Green Machine”
1918- NC Gears
1923- The MidKnight Inventors
1939- The Kuh-nig-its
1983- Skunkworks Robotics
2039- Rockford Robotics
2056- OP Robotics
2062- C.O.R.E. 2062
2130- Alpha+
2145- HAZMATs
2168- Aluminum Falcons
2187- Team Volt
2220- Blue Twilight
2383- NINJINEERS!!!!!!!!
2489- The Insomniacs
2638- Rebels
2836- Team Beta
2910- Jack in the Bot
2936- Gatorzillas
2996- Cougars Gone Wired
3061- Husky Robotics
3138- Innovators Robotics
3239- Birds of Prey
3354- TecDroid
3374- RoboBroncs
3387- Les Aigles d’Or
3410- MotoRobo
3414- HackBots
3489- Category 5
3539- Byting Bulldogs
3660- Lightsabers
3753- BulahBots!
3824- HVA RoHAWKtics
3926- MPArors
3990- Tech for Kids/La techno. au service des jeunes
4063- TriKzR4Kidz
4080- Team Reboot
4091- DRIFT
4122- O-Bots
4124- Integration By Parts
4125- Confidential
4159- CardinalBotics
4320- The Joker
4464- Team Illusion
4488- ShockWave
4516- BT Bots
4523- Tigers
4543- Apollo Robotics
4564- BREWER
4576- Red Nation Robotics
4610- BearTecs
4645- X- Machina
4646- Team ASAP (As Sketchy as Possible)
4667- Synergy
4716- Purple Raiders
4761- Robocket
4781- Robo Spartains
4814- United Robotics of London
This looks like Curie's best shot at a championship since 2010
Here is a Google Doc for Pit Scouting every team in the division. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuF1A5cZW-3sdDYya2czR283UE5uQTJkNkI5SVFQRGc#gid=5)
It's a collaboration effort so please put in any information you have, but only if you know it's correct.
Hopefully this will make pit scouting 102 teams a little easier.
If you have any suggested changes please email or PM me.
Bob Steele
17-04-2013, 18:14
It has to be very intimidating when you look at a division list for the FIRST time and see that the FIRST three teams on the list are FIRST Hall Of Fame teams. Looks like the Curse could get broken for the Madam this year.:D
It is actually the first 4 teams... Don't forget Team 120 the Scarabian Knights..
also a HOF team...
359 is also HOF...
Yipyapper
17-04-2013, 18:16
Here is a Google Doc for Pit Scouting every team in the division. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuF1A5cZW-3sdDYya2czR283UE5uQTJkNkI5SVFQRGc#gid=5)
It's a collaboration effort so please put in any information you have, but only if you know it's correct.
Hopefully this will make pit scouting 102 teams a little easier.
If you have any suggested changes please email or PM me.
There are restrictions on your pit scouting database, it won't allow some people to access it.
I see 4 MAR teams right of the bat: 103, 293, 1923, and first-year team 193
Could be more that I missed
1306scouting
17-04-2013, 18:48
I can't wait to see eliminations with all these teams.
On which note, going to plug CrowdScout for all the teams on Curie. If you're completely uninterested in scouting, you should probably skip the rest of this message.
CrowdScout is Team 1306's new initiative for collaborative scouting. We can cut down the amount of time participants spend scouting at an event by a huge amount by working together and sharing data, freeing up more time to enjoy the tournament and participate in the myriad of other things that occur at FIRST Championship. If we have 150 matches, and 102 teams with 6 scouters per team, collectively we will spend 143 days actively scouting, discounting time waiting for field reset and so forth. If half the teams on Curie worked together with CrowdScout, they would spend around 2 days scouting. When we ran CrowdScout at the Wisconsin Regional, we worked with Piratech (4804) and both teams cut their scouting loads in half, allowing us to free up scouters to participate in other parts of the tournament.
We do this by having fewer scouters taking redundant data on each match. With our current plan, we have two scouters focusing on each robot per match, though if everyone involved would rather have more for either more redundant data or more data points CrowdScout is flexible enough to accommodate. Furthermore, CrowdScout could intake data from many sources - while 1306 uses a laminated paper sheet system because we prefer it, we could easily integrate data from teams with more technologically advanced scouting systems. If you're curious about integrating your data, PM me and we can discuss it.
If you're interested, there's a CrowdScout thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1263721#post1263721), and a (rarely active) subreddit (http://reddit.com/r/CrowdScout).
kwotremb
17-04-2013, 18:49
Don't count 862 out! I'm excited to play with all these great teams
We are right there with you. Lets make Bosch proud. Going to be a fun time, can't wait. First time team 3414 the Hackbots will be at Worlds, my first time since 2003 as a student!
Kestin Goforth
17-04-2013, 18:53
1503 is really excited! Field looks competitive, let's break the curse this year!
PayneTrain
17-04-2013, 21:22
This year's theme: Will OP deliver (a championship banner to the Curie Division)?
holygrail
17-04-2013, 21:35
So many amazing teams in Curie this year! Can't wait to meet new people and make new friends. Stop by the pit and say Hi. We aren't hard to find, just look for the killer rabbit hats.
Elims are going to be legendary.
xSAWxBLADEx
17-04-2013, 22:12
16- Baxter Bomb Squad
67- The HOT Team
103- CyberSonics
148- RoboWranglers
233- Pink Team
234- CyberBlue
359- Hawaiian Kids
399- Eagle Robotics
862- Lightning Robotics
968- RAWC (Robotics Alliance of west Covina)
1310- RUNNYMEDE ROBOTICS
1503- Spartonics
1684- Chimeras
1717- D’Penguineers
1918- NC Gears
1983- Skunkworks Robotics
2056- OP Robotics
3539- Byting Bulldogs
OMG!!! #BREAKINGTHECURSE
Here's another way 2056 might beat Adversity: break the Curie Curse.
2056 wins the Championship this year. They are the best team not to win a championship yet, but even if you disagree, next year it won't be necessary to argue whether they're ahead of 233 (and other teams) on that list.
Dragonking
17-04-2013, 22:46
so 99 teams in the division?
Greetings to all teams in the Curie division!
We are team 1577, Steampunk from Israel.
As an Israeli team, we are not permitted to bring batteries or chargers to our pit, neither are we allowed to bring our pit structure along with us.
We are given two batteries alone from FIRST, and as you may know, that is no way near sufficient.
We graciously ask for your aid, we would be extremely grateful if any team would be as kind as to lend us a few batteries.
Thank you for your help and good luck to all the Curie division teams out there!
Lidork51@gmail.com
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115930
The Jokers 4320 from Israel is existed to play in curie division!!
see you there guys!!!
and good luck to all of us!!
lets break the curse ::ouch::
Dancin103
18-04-2013, 09:26
It has to be very intimidating when you look at a division list for the FIRST time and see that the FIRST three teams on the list are FIRST Hall Of Fame teams. Looks like the Curse could get broken for the Madam this year.:D
The first 4 actually!! ;)
It's going to be fun!
Dancin103
18-04-2013, 09:40
It is actually the first 4 teams... Don't forget Team 120 the Scarabian Knights..
also a HOF team...
359 is also HOF...
It's going to be quite the party!!!
engunneer
18-04-2013, 10:08
Here is a Google Doc for Pit Scouting every team in the division. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuF1A5cZW-3sdDYya2czR283UE5uQTJkNkI5SVFQRGc#gid=5)
It's a collaboration effort so please put in any information you have, but only if you know it's correct.
Hopefully this will make pit scouting 102 teams a little easier.
If you have any suggested changes please email or PM me.
I added 2 columns that may be useful, and a second sheet with a chart.
Why is 1540 in there 3 times? I know they are awesome, but still..
Jeremy Germita
18-04-2013, 10:56
Should be a fun one again!
including the aforementioned teams, I recommend teams not forget about 1678 Citrus Circuits. CVR champions, top OPR and first overall pick at Sac. Great ground loader with a multi disc auton.
Good luck and we're excited to play again.
#breakthecurse.
Why is 1540 in there 3 times? I know they are awesome, but still..
I think the 1540 duplicates were from multiple people all updating at once. It's fixed now. You are right about 1540 being awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av95lQJuZo0 and http://www.team1540.org/2013game
Our shooter, disc pickup, hanging and autonomous have all been through a massive set of upgrades at OKC and after so it's finally the robot we wanted it to be.
Team 4063 (TrikzR4Kidz) is excited and ready for this years curie division! Let's break this curse!
Amaze your friends!
Learn all 100 curie teams with these kewl flashcards.
Curie Flashcards (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2819?)
Amaze your friends!
Learn all 100 curie teams with these kewl flashcards.
Curie Flashcards (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2819?)
I also made flash cards on quizlet. (http://quizlet.com/22297513/2013-curie-teams-flash-cards/)
I will stop soon I swear.
Amaze your friends!
Learn all 100 curie teams with these kewl flashcards.
Curie Flashcards (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2819?)
These flashcards are great. Just don't forget to sleep at some point while at competition studying :o
(2996 Reporting in, BTW)
engunneer
22-04-2013, 08:28
Robockets (4761) were deleted from the spreadsheet for some reason. I have restored, but OPR is from memory. Please verify no other teams have gone missing.
Edit: just compared to FIRST list. All other teams are present, and I removed the line for the team that moved to Archimedes.
Joe Ross
22-04-2013, 13:20
I used the preliminary match schedules to simulate the matches using OPR and then calculate the standings. I used each team's best OPR from Ed Law's spreadsheet for calculating their contribution to a match. I also used each team's world Auto, Teleop, and Climb OPR from Ed Law's spreadsheet for calculating the rest of the standings.
Rank Team Wins Losses Ties Matches QP AP TP CP
1 2056 8 0 0 8 16 400 669 122
2 1983 8 0 0 8 16 290 431 95
3 67 8 0 0 8 16 264 606 196
4 2145 8 0 0 8 16 185 520 207
5 1717 7 1 0 8 14 346 459 113
6 1678 7 1 0 8 14 327 511 135
7 2130 7 1 0 8 14 293 409 168
8 234 7 1 0 8 14 266 350 190
9 1310 6 2 0 8 12 366 481 135
10 862 6 2 0 8 12 293 490 171
11 3990 6 2 0 8 12 289 426 138
12 359 6 2 0 8 12 282 518 171
13 1918 6 2 0 8 12 264 374 160
14 2996 6 2 0 8 12 262 448 167
15 3414 6 2 0 8 12 260 460 160
16 1622 6 2 0 8 12 246 355 150
17 2936 6 2 0 8 12 233 350 187
18 1684 6 2 0 8 12 206 387 145
19 1706 6 2 0 8 12 201 444 119
20 1540 5 3 0 8 10 276 328 81
21 2062 5 3 0 8 10 275 349 91
22 4564 5 3 0 8 10 273 403 149
23 435 5 3 0 8 10 264 282 161
24 293 5 3 0 8 10 259 356 181
25 1541 5 3 0 8 10 257 289 151
26 1708 5 3 0 8 10 256 316 145
27 4814 5 3 0 8 10 253 356 130
28 193 5 3 0 8 10 252 407 147
29 3061 5 3 0 8 10 234 373 101
30 1262 5 3 0 8 10 224 347 161
31 148 5 3 0 8 10 220 406 193
32 135 5 3 0 8 10 216 329 154
33 16 5 3 0 8 10 208 319 140
34 4645 5 3 0 8 10 206 321 115
35 1503 5 3 0 8 10 204 452 180
36 3753 5 3 0 8 10 198 424 155
37 1923 5 3 0 8 10 196 315 149
38 4523 5 3 0 8 10 195 271 179
39 781 5 3 0 8 10 177 323 183
40 540 5 3 0 8 10 168 430 211
41 3489 5 3 0 8 10 143 237 170
42 2638 4 4 0 8 8 264 359 146
43 4320 4 4 0 8 8 262 330 122
44 1559 4 4 0 8 8 261 268 156
45 3539 4 4 0 8 8 260 400 156
46 3410 4 4 0 8 8 254 392 133
47 4124 4 4 0 8 8 240 325 121
48 1138 4 4 0 8 8 240 266 130
49 2489 4 4 0 8 8 228 259 134
50 233 4 4 0 8 8 207 271 209
51 4063 4 4 0 8 8 206 304 122
52 1288 4 4 0 8 8 199 431 167
53 2383 4 4 0 8 8 183 234 217
54 3387 4 4 0 8 8 171 301 159
55 4543 4 4 0 8 8 129 210 137
56 4646 4 4 0 8 8 122 228 195
57 3138 3 5 0 8 6 275 325 133
58 1939 3 5 0 8 6 267 449 177
59 230 3 5 0 8 6 234 368 179
60 4080 3 5 0 8 6 232 276 157
61 103 3 5 0 8 6 226 326 187
62 967 3 5 0 8 6 222 369 148
63 399 3 5 0 8 6 221 326 173
64 1735 3 5 0 8 6 217 220 123
65 4516 3 5 0 8 6 211 276 108
66 4761 3 5 0 8 6 205 296 51
67 2039 3 5 0 8 6 203 257 159
68 2187 3 5 0 8 6 203 242 125
69 1816 3 5 0 8 6 202 311 145
70 4159 3 5 0 8 6 191 310 141
71 4464 3 5 0 8 6 189 242 124
72 4667 3 5 0 8 6 177 287 100
73 3374 3 5 0 8 6 173 219 153
74 1810 3 5 0 8 6 171 254 221
75 2168 3 5 0 8 6 164 252 202
76 2910 3 5 0 8 6 161 329 85
77 1421 3 5 0 8 6 126 338 359
78 4488 2 6 0 8 4 281 277 78
79 3660 2 6 0 8 4 250 202 107
80 3824 2 6 0 8 4 228 327 143
81 4125 2 6 0 8 4 200 219 137
82 3354 2 6 0 8 4 199 293 88
83 932 2 6 0 8 4 199 223 129
84 4716 2 6 0 8 4 193 352 140
85 1290 2 6 0 8 4 189 233 160
86 968 2 6 0 8 4 187 227 175
87 620 2 6 0 8 4 175 243 161
88 2220 2 6 0 8 4 160 245 142
89 120 2 6 0 8 4 158 320 197
90 4576 2 6 0 8 4 154 252 122
91 4781 2 6 0 8 4 154 248 93
92 4091 2 6 0 8 4 148 174 89
93 2836 2 6 0 8 4 128 174 109
94 2914 2 6 0 8 4 123 176 137
95 1306 2 6 0 8 4 119 132 171
96 4122 1 7 0 8 2 178 230 139
97 3239 1 7 0 8 2 169 140 101
98 1577 1 7 0 8 2 149 176 156
99 3926 1 7 0 8 2 136 154 136
100 4610 1 7 0 8 2 92 195 180
Here are the results from the individual matches
Match Red 1 Red 2 Red 3 Blue 1 Blue 2 Blue 3 RScore BScore
1 3824 1290 193 1918 1622 1684 122 154
2 540 3539 103 968 148 862 124 147
3 1421 3489 4610 4576 3387 4080 109 76
4 1717 2996 2062 16 120 1559 177 90
5 4464 1540 4761 2383 4646 1816 82 65
6 2914 4523 781 1708 4091 3926 73 48
7 1288 2039 67 1939 135 3410 161 130
8 4320 3990 1678 2220 1577 1706 110 91
9 1923 233 4645 4543 3753 3660 100 62
10 4159 4125 4488 4781 1306 620 67 35
11 932 1262 2168 435 293 2130 99 131
12 4063 2489 3354 1810 359 967 63 150
13 234 3414 4814 1138 1735 1310 130 104
14 4564 2910 4122 2145 2936 1503 69 167
15 3138 4124 1983 230 2187 4716 133 79
16 2056 3061 4516 1541 3374 2836 152 60
17 399 3239 3539 4667 2638 1717 98 124
18 3824 1706 16 4159 3926 1421 152 100
19 1684 233 4125 2168 3410 148 102 143
20 4091 2996 2383 3990 193 4781 89 85
21 620 2039 4645 1540 4320 1310 59 118
22 1262 2145 120 4646 2220 4610 120 37
23 932 4464 1306 1559 1918 540 57 113
24 2836 967 2914 4080 4124 4122 53 86
25 3387 1541 135 4488 4523 103 123 97
26 3061 230 4667 3414 2910 1923 88 124
27 3239 2062 2187 1577 2489 2130 59 89
28 1138 3138 1290 4576 435 1708 85 89
29 1983 2936 4814 3660 1810 399 135 68
30 4716 968 1288 3374 4063 1503 69 97
31 1622 862 234 4761 2638 3354 175 52
32 67 1816 3753 4516 781 293 157 95
33 3489 1735 4543 4564 1678 2056 68 178
34 1939 120 4122 359 540 3387 94 127
35 2489 4523 1306 3824 3539 1310 73 158
36 2039 1717 932 2836 233 1290 127 67
37 4646 3990 1421 2062 4488 3660 118 54
38 1541 3239 4781 1983 2914 16 46 112
39 3374 1923 862 967 2168 620 136 119
40 148 4610 230 1288 2130 4159 122 134
41 3354 3753 2383 1262 1735 2910 71 78
42 3489 135 1503 3061 4091 2220 126 64
43 3414 4716 3926 1678 435 2936 62 132
44 3138 2638 193 4645 67 1706 119 157
45 399 1559 1708 234 1816 359 117 162
46 1918 4516 4543 968 4124 4320 81 68
47 2056 3410 2187 4080 1540 4814 153 87
48 4564 1138 1684 4464 4667 1939 109 87
49 2145 1810 293 1577 1622 103 139 98
50 2996 781 4576 4125 4761 4063 111 65
51 2910 1983 1310 1290 2220 148 141 119
52 230 1503 1678 1421 2914 2168 141 113
53 620 1717 3660 1541 2383 2130 116 125
54 1918 1708 4645 3414 4488 3354 116 67
55 399 3824 540 1262 4080 2062 98 101
56 4814 1939 233 1706 4781 4646 115 73
57 1540 4543 293 4716 4159 3387 95 77
58 1559 4063 4516 1622 3990 3489 76 120
59 3753 2056 4667 135 1810 4761 144 83
60 2187 4610 4122 103 781 3374 49 104
61 1138 1577 2039 1816 1306 16 58 79
62 4564 359 3239 3926 932 1288 110 71
63 435 4091 2489 2145 862 4320 67 158
64 968 4464 3061 3138 967 234 81 141
65 1735 120 3539 4125 193 2936 94 116
66 3410 2836 1923 2996 2638 4523 85 131
67 4576 4124 1503 67 1684 540 93 149
68 3374 4543 2383 4488 1559 1983 52 122
69 1918 4063 4667 2914 233 2187 94 66
70 781 3990 1290 1810 16 620 110 96
71 1306 1708 2168 2910 4610 3239 102 28
72 1310 967 4091 230 1541 1939 103 152
73 2056 3414 359 4159 2039 3539 223 114
74 1735 4080 135 1717 4646 4516 93 104
75 4523 1706 3354 4576 1540 932 90 63
76 2130 3061 193 4564 3410 862 145 130
77 4716 4645 103 2062 2836 1684 65 79
78 148 399 1678 3387 4464 2996 153 127
79 1622 4320 1262 3138 1816 2936 107 106
80 234 1288 435 1421 4122 1577 150 90
81 4761 2220 67 4814 3824 1923 119 116
82 4781 1138 4124 3753 2638 120 60 103
83 4125 3489 3926 2489 293 968 54 86
84 2145 193 3414 3660 4523 3239 166 36
85 233 103 620 1559 1735 230 114 100
86 4080 4091 2168 4645 1290 4667 74 33
87 1262 2039 1541 4464 4576 4543 110 46
88 2062 862 1540 3138 1503 4516 137 87
89 1310 67 2130 2996 1918 4716 190 133
90 1577 4610 2914 4814 4564 135 14 89
91 1939 435 2220 968 1306 2836 116 21
92 4125 2638 3824 2187 1708 3387 102 109
93 3660 4761 359 148 3489 1138 92 135
94 3926 1810 234 3374 120 4320 93 52
95 16 1678 4488 4124 2145 4063 107 136
96 4781 4122 1684 1923 3539 932 62 130
97 1816 2910 1288 3990 2056 2489 96 172
98 4159 4646 1622 3061 399 3753 86 128
99 3410 2936 1706 2383 293 967 146 122
100 781 1421 540 1717 1983 3354 126 149
101 862 3660 1918 2220 2039 4125 134 61
102 4645 2996 359 3824 435 2914 142 83
103 2638 4488 1577 4464 1735 1290 66 77
104 4716 1138 1559 4091 4122 3239 71 21
105 1540 1262 148 67 3990 1708 149 171
106 3539 4063 4814 1816 230 3926 108 73
107 3410 4667 4124 2489 1541 4646 63 90
108 2383 103 16 234 4516 932 118 88
109 3138 293 3374 1678 1310 1717 87 186
110 1684 4523 4159 3489 2910 4320 107 78
111 4576 2187 3753 4564 2836 3414 79 85
112 1622 135 967 120 1421 233 133 120
113 4761 193 1983 4610 1939 1503 132 117
114 399 968 2130 2056 4781 781 95 137
115 2062 1706 3387 1923 1810 1306 133 95
116 620 4080 3354 2145 4543 1288 55 129
117 2936 2168 1577 3061 540 2996 99 124
118 3824 932 3374 230 3410 1138 75 102
119 2836 4667 3926 3660 1735 3138 1 54
120 67 1421 4464 103 4125 359 179 138
121 1559 2638 1503 967 4814 4159 125 96
122 4646 4523 234 2039 4063 4564 102 92
123 1923 1310 135 781 1262 3239 150 85
124 1939 862 4488 2056 4716 1717 149 193
125 4516 2489 4576 4645 4781 148 48 74
126 4080 1708 4320 233 3539 293 103 141
127 2130 16 4543 4091 4761 2910 103 32
128 3354 3990 1541 2936 1684 2187 82 124
129 620 1678 3753 1918 2062 4122 120 110
130 1810 2220 1288 540 193 1540 100 105
131 2914 1290 1306 399 3489 2145 43 138
132 1816 435 4610 3061 4124 1706 67 147
133 968 3387 2168 1983 1622 3414 88 163
134 120 2489 2836 2383 3824 2039 49 98
Here are the highest combined score matches
Match Red 1 Red 2 Red 3 Blue 1 Blue 2 Blue 3 RScore BScore
124 1939 862 4488 2056 4716 1717 149 193
73 2056 3414 359 4159 2039 3539 223 114
89 1310 67 2130 2996 1918 4716 190 133
105 1540 1262 148 67 3990 1708 149 171
120 67 1421 4464 103 4125 359 179 138
Here are the highest scoring close matches
Match Red 1 Red 2 Red 3 Blue 1 Blue 2 Blue 3 RScore BScore
53 620 1717 3660 1541 2383 2130 116 125
81 4761 2220 67 4814 3824 1923 119 116
129 620 1678 3753 1918 2062 4122 120 110
79 1622 4320 1262 3138 1816 2936 107 106
92 4125 2638 3824 2187 1708 3387 102 109
130 1810 2220 1288 540 193 1540 100 105
Don't like the predictions? Go out and prove them wrong :)
kwotremb
22-04-2013, 13:27
I used the preliminary match schedules to simulate the matches using OPR and then calculate the standings. I used each team's best OPR from Ed Law's spreadsheet for calculating their contribution to a match. I also used each team's world Auto, Teleop, and Climb OPR from Ed Law's spreadsheet for calculating the rest of the standings.
Awesome! Thanks for this. We are sitting at 15th, our team would have been ecstatic knowing that to start the year. Now working hard to make that better. I hope they do not change just because of Match 73.
Thad House
22-04-2013, 13:29
Wow. We got the wrong end of the stick. Luckily all of our matches are decently close, so our improvements might be enough to pull us a few more wins. Although I'm happy to see our friends on 1983 be so high up, and 1540 is pretty high as well.
holygrail
22-04-2013, 14:35
Whew. That is a tough schedule! We get to start off against 67 and then finish off our last match against 1717 and 2056. It is going to be very exciting just to take the field against such great teams.
According to the predictions above, 1939 would be 15th in Autonomous Points, 11th in Teleop points, and 21st in Climb Points, but 58th in overall rankings. I'm just glad those are only predictions. We'll just have to wait a few days to see how reality turns out.
waialua359
22-04-2013, 15:05
According to the results, 359 and 2056 are a good fit. ;) **match 73
Bob Steele
22-04-2013, 17:11
According to the results, 359 and 2056 are a good fit. ;) **match 73
Well at least we are on the same field for once Glenn.. we don't get to play together though this year.. Best of luck!!
Chaotic1421
22-04-2013, 18:06
1421 is excited to be a part of Curie again! Can't wait to see you all there!
1421 is excited to be a part of Curie again! Can't wait to see you all there!
Having seen these guys climb their way to victory in Arkansas first hand, these guys are legit. Look out for them.
Wayne TenBrink
22-04-2013, 18:31
Don't like the predictions? Go out and prove them wrong :)
Will there be any teams in St. Louis who are not confident that they will do exactly that?
faust1706
22-04-2013, 19:18
How many teams are able to put the coloured frisbees into the pyramid? Either by shooting or by dumping? Just curious.
Thad House
22-04-2013, 19:26
We can do it from either the corner of the pyramid, or while hanging for 10 points.
Dragonking
22-04-2013, 20:40
has the team list changed at all, what teams have switched divisions?
Chaotic1421
22-04-2013, 21:28
How many teams are able to put the coloured frisbees into the pyramid? Either by shooting or by dumping? Just curious.
We can climb to the top and dump all four colored disk in 21 seconds!! In both the Bayou Regional and Razorback Regional we had a 100% climb rate to the top.
waialua359
23-04-2013, 02:43
We can climb to the top and dump all four colored disk in 21 seconds!! In both the Bayou Regional and Razorback Regional we had a 100% climb rate to the top.
Well it seems we have our work cutout for us when we go against you and HOT, with 2 50 point climber/dumpers in this match.
Looking forward to seeing what you guys have invented this year! I'll be returning as your Curie Field Supervisor this year! I've already spoken to a number of my field staff, many of which are coming from the field staff in Virginia! What'dya say we break the Curie Curse?! See some of you tomorrow, see the rest Thursday!
Matt
Well it seems we have our work cutout for us when we go against you and HOT, with 2 50 point climber/dumpers in this match.
That makes their decision making sort of interesting since they can't both dump 4 colored discs. I figure one robot takes four colored discs and the other one takes two colored + two white and shoots two before climbing + dumping. But there are several other ways of looking at that type of situation.
Joe Ross
23-04-2013, 16:26
That makes their decision making sort of interesting since they can't both dump 4 colored discs. I figure one robot takes four colored discs and the other one takes two colored + two white and shoots two before climbing + dumping. But there are several other ways of looking at that type of situation.
If I remember correctly, at the Michigan State Championship, the #4 alliance had 2 climber/dumpers plus the alliance captain could score the pyramid discs from the ground.
I don't remember how things were split up, but you can watch their matches here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyetNAb5oc&list=PL6fCSvDccI_76f2Ov2aeZbYOGB3Kd9wHV&index=15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0gzvoNuQv8&list=PL6fCSvDccI_76f2Ov2aeZbYOGB3Kd9wHV&index=11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiPbJiP5MB0&list=PL6fCSvDccI_76f2Ov2aeZbYOGB3Kd9wHV&index=8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Wthy0s_dk&list=PL6fCSvDccI_76f2Ov2aeZbYOGB3Kd9wHV&index=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba3-DN_IQtw&list=PL6fCSvDccI_76f2Ov2aeZbYOGB3Kd9wHV&index=4
Littleboy
23-04-2013, 16:41
2145 shot 2 from the ground into the pyramid goal.
1918 ran cycles and then climbed without dump.
3572 climbed and dumbed 4.
Adam Freeman
23-04-2013, 19:03
That makes their decision making sort of interesting since they can't both dump 4 colored discs. I figure one robot takes four colored discs and the other one takes two colored + two white and shoots two before climbing + dumping. But there are several other ways of looking at that type of situation.
We'll probably figure that problem out about 8:30am Saturday morning.... :cool:
Jefferson
24-04-2013, 15:02
The team is travelling without me today, so I'm sitting around thinking about them and wishing them well... and I can't stand it.
So... I thought I'd give a heads-up to the Curie scouts on CD. After an unsatisfying regular season, we put in a lot of hard work over the last couple of weeks to improve. As a result, we have three subsystems (2 replacement, 1 new) to put on our robot tonight. We should be a different looking animal come Thursday morning.
I don't want to set any unrealistic expectations, so that's all I'm going to say. I just wanted to remind y'all to keep an eye out for the Bomb Squad.
Madrose97
24-04-2013, 23:55
1421 is in St. Louis having fun and ready for world to start!! to the top!! good luck teams!!!
Kevin Thorp
25-04-2013, 12:21
Hmmm... 12:20 pm (Eastern time) and still no match schedule posted. :(
http://www2.usfirst.org/2013comp/events/Curie/schedulequal.html
Kevin Thorp
25-04-2013, 13:27
Yay! It's up.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2013comp/events/Curie/schedulequal.html
engunneer
25-04-2013, 13:36
Yay! It's up.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2013comp/events/Curie/schedulequal.html
no match results or rankings yet :(
EDIT: because they haven't started... duh
Is anyone else's video feed but not audio feed for Curie dropping out on the Curie webcast?
I got to hear the wonder commentary of the 3539 vs. 1717 match.
Joe Ross
25-04-2013, 15:58
Is anyone else's video feed but not audio feed for curie dropping out on the Curie webcast?
Yes.
audietron
25-04-2013, 22:25
We have uploaded videos for matches 12 and 39. Match 12 has a POV view from our robot.
Match 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWCIOulK0L0
Match 39: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGaCqWNH9Q
waialua359
26-04-2013, 00:03
That was a great match together. ;)
audietron
26-04-2013, 10:15
match 12 went really well for all three of us with the second highest score of our division, Great job to 4063, 2489, and 3354 as well. Some really tough opponents.
engunneer
26-04-2013, 11:16
is there no audio on the NASA feed? The TBA feed is only shoing me a static image, so I can't test for sound there.
is there no audio on the NASA feed? The TBA feed is only shoing me a static image, so I can't test for sound there.
I'm not getting any sound on the NASA feed.
Edit: Just got sound
engunneer
26-04-2013, 15:41
Great matches!
Dear Announcer: "cache" is pronounced "kash", not "kash-ay". :twitch:
Great matches!
Dear Announcer: "cache" is pronounced "kash", not "kash-ay". :twitch:
He knows. It's his "schtick". There are many Nader-isms... We in MI love him -- he's a jewel!
iVanDuzer
26-04-2013, 19:42
FUN FACT TIMES!
Out of all the machines at Champs...
2056 has the highest Auto score with 402. Second is 1310 with 398.
1310 also has the 3rd highest Teleop score, with 636. They're beaten by 1425 (683) and 2169 (661), both on Galileo.
Obviously these numbers count points by the whole alliance, but when you have the second highest auto score AND the third highest teleop score, I'd like to think there's a reason besides getting lucky partners. Guys, 1310 is the real deal. They're probably going to seed 4 - 6 and act as a huge spoiler for some unfortunate red alliance IF they don't get nabbed by 1, 2, or 3.
FUN FACT TIMES!
Out of all the machines at Champs...
2056 has the highest Auto score with 402. Second is 1310 with 398.
1310 also has the 3rd highest Teleop score, with 636. They're beaten by 1425 (683) and 2169 (661), both on Archimedes.
Obviously these numbers count points by the whole alliance, but when you have the second highest auto score AND the third highest teleop score, I'd like to think there's a reason besides getting lucky partners. Guys, 1310 is the real deal. They're probably going to seed 4 - 6 and act as a huge spoiler for some unfortunate red alliance IF they don't get nabbed by 1, 2, or 3.
2169 is in Galileo, not Archimedes.
Edit: Actually both 2169 and 1425 are in Galileo.
iVanDuzer
27-04-2013, 00:27
2169 is in Galileo, not Archimedes.
Edit: Actually both 2169 and 1425 are in Galileo.
Fixed. Thanks. Apparently that's what I get for flipping furiously through FRC Spyder without making 100% sure what division I'm looking at.
1678 just won their match. Unless 1983 wins their match and scores 70 in auto (difficult but not unheard of), 1678 will keep the number 1 seed.
1678 clinched #1.
1983 scored 66 in autonomous, so they are guaranteed #2 seed if they win.
Yipyapper
27-04-2013, 12:19
I thought one decline was rare, let alone 4. 1678 was declined by 1717, 2056, 1310 and 359. I feel bad for the representative!
Kevin Sevcik
27-04-2013, 12:35
It's pretty liked that 1678 had already talked with all four teams and was told they'd be declined. Knowing that, they clearly wanted to breakup any potential powerhouse alliances to make sure they still had a chance at winning the division. Given their eventual pick, I wouldn't be surprised if 148 suggested the strategy to begin with, really. So you shouldn't feel bad for the rep, they almost certainly expected that and were executing the relatively standard scorched earth strategy that non-powerhouse 1st seeds often end up with.
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 15:02
Just saying it like it is. That technical foul was bull. Essentially a 50-point foul for a climbing foul.
Just saying it like it is. That technical foul was bull. Essentially a 50-point foul for a climbing foul.
The rule has been there the entire year. Don't touch someone when they are about to climb.
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 15:16
The rule has been there the entire year. Don't touch someone when they are about to climb.
Just saying I've never seen it called until now. Either call a technical foul or call the climbing foul. I've only ever seen the 30 points being called (including teams who were actually hanging) let alone a team that wasn't even touching the pyramid yet. 2056 should be in finals.
Just saying I've never seen it called until now. Either call a technical foul or call the climbing foul. I've only ever seen the 30 points being called (including teams who were actually hanging) let alone a team that wasn't even touching the pyramid yet. 2056 should be in finals.
2056 lost the first one as well. If the penalty wasn't called it would have still gone to 3.
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 15:24
2056 lost the first one as well. If the penalty wasn't called it would have still gone to 3.
No, this was SF 1-3. They won their first match and lost the second.
Just saying it like it is. That technical foul was bull. Essentially a 50-point foul for a climbing foul.
The head ref told us that we hit them while they were in the act of lining up, which they were instructed to call as "in the act of climbing".
What's the deal with finals match 1? 186-0?
And 862 nudges the pyramid and brings 1918 down; 2nd level fall. Red carded. Looks like Gears're out on the field for finals two though.
The head ref told us that we hit them while they were in the act of lining up, which they were instructed to call as "in the act of climbing".
Were they in contact with the pyramid?
How...?
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/curie%20negative%20disc.PNG
Joe Ross
27-04-2013, 15:36
How...?
http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/curie%20negative%20disc.PNG
red card
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 15:37
Were they in contact with the pyramid?
Not at all
And that just makes them automatically lose?
And that just makes them automatically lose?
A Red Card, in eliminations, applies to the entire alliance. No win. No points. Automatic loss.
In qualifications, it only applies to the team that gets it, who gets nothing from the match (except a loss). In some cases, it can be applied to the entire alliance.
Joe Ross
27-04-2013, 15:43
And that just makes them automatically lose?
Yes, a red card is a disqualification.
During the Elimination MATCHES, if a Team receives a RED CARD, the entire ALLIANCE is DISQUALIFIED for that MATCH.
DISQUALIFIED: the status of a TEAM, as determined by the Head Referee, in which they receive zero (0) Qualification Points in a Qualification MATCH or receive zero (0) points in, and lose, an Elimination MATCH.
video of the match the resulted in a red card?
Not at all
Since when is it called as interfering with the climb if they aren't contacting the pyramid? What's changed?
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 15:56
Since when is it called as interfering with the climb if they aren't contacting the pyramid? What's changed?
As 404'd said, "ligning up for a climb" is now interference.
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 16:01
I mean, 148 was pushed into the pyramid, but I've still never seen that penalty called for that either. At this point, it doesn't matter though.
waialua359
27-04-2013, 16:27
POOR Head reffing.
Robby Unruh
27-04-2013, 16:40
[deleted]
I mean, 148 was pushed into the pyramid, but I've still never seen that penalty called for that either. At this point, it doesn't matter though.
Once they're pushed into contact with the pyramid, there's a 20-point technical foul for intentional contact with a robot in contact with its pyramid--doesn't matter that they were pushed in. If the climber is deployed when they are pushed into the pyramid, it's reasonable to expect that they are attempting to climb, and thus they are now being interfered with while climbing, once the pyramid is contacted. Add in the 30-point climb bonus. Going by the rules as written, that's a reasonable call.
Whether or not it's been called that way all season doesn't matter--I seem to remember a set of matches where a robot's arm coming off under heavy defense didn't allow a game piece that it was attached to and was otherwise scored to score, flipping one match (no penalty given), then a few matches later a high-contact mutual hit that could have happened to anyone got a red card and disable. Hadn't been called that way all season.
Jefferson
27-04-2013, 17:18
Once they're pushed into contact with the pyramid, there's a 20-point technical foul for intentional contact with a robot in contact with its pyramid--doesn't matter that they were pushed in.
And there is the rub with this penalty system. The referees are being asked to judge the intentions of the drivers, not just the actions. Very rarely does a driver intentionally (purposeful is what the rulebook uses) contact another robot while they are contacting the pyramid, yet it was regularly called as a technical foul on Curie. I hadn't seen it called like that in previous regionals.
kennethdharmon2
27-04-2013, 17:38
Can someone post the video or a link to this match. Also I think it was only a 20 pt Tech Foul, but that was still enough to throw the match to Red.
audietron
27-04-2013, 17:48
Can someone post the video or a link to this match. Also I think it was only a 20 pt Tech Foul, but that was still enough to throw the match to Red.
I'll post our last match of the semi finals in a couple hours from now and post a link on this thread.
Michael Hill
27-04-2013, 18:30
Can someone post the video or a link to this match. Also I think it was only a 20 pt Tech Foul, but that was still enough to throw the match to Red.
It was 20 pt. technical foul + 30 point climb foul, so a total of 50 points, essentially.
FrancisTherrien
28-04-2013, 00:41
Here is a link to a video of the technical foul of 967 on 148 on the pyramid. Judge it for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlswJfhkrNQ&feature=youtu.be
minhnhatbui
28-04-2013, 01:26
Here's the famous hit: http://youtu.be/YlswJfhkrNQ. Judge by yourself.
Here's the famous hit: http://youtu.be/YlswJfhkrNQ. Judge by yourself.
Good call by the ref, clearly in contact and clearly interfering.
minhnhatbui
28-04-2013, 01:36
I would think that it would be at most a 20 points technical foul since 967 did push them to the pyramid, but they were not in the process of climbing - the 30 points climb awarded to 148 was dubious.
iVanDuzer
28-04-2013, 02:04
Should not have been called interfering with a climb. Climbing requires contact with the pyramid. The only reason 148 was touching the pyramid was because they were pushed there. Since the contact with the pyramid was independent of the act of climbing (148 had to break contact with the pyramid to line up again to climb properly), it should have been a 20 point technical foul and red should have won.
Should not have been called interfering with a climb. Climbing requires contact with the pyramid. The only reason 148 was touching the pyramid was because they were pushed there. Since the contact with the pyramid was independent of the act of climbing (148 had to break contact with the pyramid to line up again to climb properly), it should have been a 20 point technical foul and red should have won.
No, it should not have been just a 20-point foul.
G30
Regardless of who initiates the contact, a ROBOT may not contact an opponent ROBOT
A. contacting its PYRAMID or
B. touching the carpet in its LOADING ZONE.
Violation: FOUL. If purposeful or consequential, TECHNICAL FOUL. If an opponent's CLIMB is affected, each affected opponent ROBOT will be granted credit for a Level 3 CLIMB at the end of the MATCH.First off, you are correct that it's a 20-point technical foul (purposeful and consequential being the reason).
However, you don't have to interfere with a climb to get the 30 tacked on. You just have to affect it. If you affect it (and I would consider that potentially breaking raised hooks and forcing a realignment is most certainly affecting a climb, thank you very much--don't believe me, I'll try it on you and ask if you were affected), then it's a technical foul plus 30.
148 was attempting a climb, their climb was affected, and in the process they contacted the tower. If they hadn't contacted the tower, no foul. If they hadn't been attempting a climb, 3-20 points in fouls. But they contacted the tower due to opponent action (though initiator of an action does not matter in this case), and their climb was affected after lining up had begun. When a climb begins--whether it's when you latch on or when you start lining up--is a matter of interpretation.
iVanDuzer
28-04-2013, 03:01
No, it should not have been just a 20-point foul.
However, you don't have to interfere with a climb to get the 30 tacked on. You just have to affect it. If you affect it (and I would consider that potentially breaking raised hooks and forcing a realignment is most certainly affecting a climb, thank you very much--don't believe me, I'll try it on you and ask if you were affected), then it's a technical foul plus 30.
Just as background, my robot's climber DID get mangled by defence while going for a climb this year, resulting in us being eliminated from our only regional, so I definitely know how the folks on 148 would feel if 967's defence resulted in damage to their robot.
148 was attempting a climb, their climb was affected, and in the process they contacted the tower. If they hadn't contacted the tower, no foul. If they hadn't been attempting a climb, 3-20 points in fouls. But they contacted the tower due to opponent action (though initiator of an action does not matter in this case), and their climb was affected after lining up had begun. When a climb begins--whether it's when you latch on or when you start lining up--is a matter of interpretation.
If the climb was truly affected, they should have also gotten a red card due to G27, no?
ROBOTS may not contact or otherwise interfere with their opponents’ PYRAMID. Inconsequential contact will not be penalized.
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL.
If an opponent’s CLIMB is affected,
RED CARD, and each affected opponent ROBOT will be granted credit for a Level 3 CLIMB at the end of the MATCH.
Since the 967 did not get assessed a red card, I take it to mean that the refs did not feel like the climb was affected, and so the climbing points should not have been awarded. And the refs on Curie were very clear that they knew what constituted a violation of G27 in the first finals match when the red alliance was disqualified due to that same rule.
If the climb was truly affected, they should have also gotten a red card due to G27, no?
Since the 967 did not get assessed a red card, I take it to mean that the refs did not feel like the climb was affected, and so the climbing points should not have been awarded. And the refs on Curie were very clear that they knew what constituted a violation of G27 in the first finals match when the red alliance was disqualified due to that same rule.
The pyramid was not touched by 967. G27 (and its associated penalties) therefore does not apply to this situation. G30, on the other hand, does apply, due to robot/robot contact when a robot contacts its own pyramid being a factor--and G30 does not have a provision for a red card.
If 967 had in fact contacted the pyramid, I would have expected at least another T-foul to be added on to the score, regardless of whether or not the climb bonus was applied.
iVanDuzer
28-04-2013, 03:38
The pyramid was not touched by 967. G27 (and its associated penalties) therefore does not apply to this situation. G30, on the other hand, does apply, due to robot/robot contact when a robot contacts its own pyramid being a factor--and G30 does not have a provision for a red card.
G27 does not state the exact method used to interfere with the pyramid. The use of the word "interfere" suggests that a robot can affect the opposing pyramid in other ways besides direct contact. I would say pushing another robot into the pyramid is one such way of initiating contact with the pyramid.
967 purposely (in the ref's eyes, hence the G30 violation) used 148 as means to contact the pyramid to create a momentary pin (otherwise that would have been a 3pt foul). That's both indirect (but not inconsequential) contact and interference with the pyramid (use of the pyramid in a way it was not supposed to be used: the "safe zone" rules surrounding the pyramid clearly shows that the pyramid is not meant to be used to pin robots). Again, the climb points awarded to 148 show that the refs felt that 148's climb was affected: under G27, 967 should have been given a red card as well for interference with the pyramid and affecting a climb.
When it comes to climbing, there's a lot of overlap between G27 and G30. If the refs were going to call one of these fouls, they should have called both. Since G27 was not called, I am left thinking that the climb bonus should not have been added for an affected climb.
1975Flyers
28-04-2013, 11:07
Deleted content.
hiyou102
28-04-2013, 11:25
Did anyone notice the mentor for 148 that had to be restrained after the red card was called?
Can you please elaborate? What exactly happened?
When a climb begins--whether it's when you latch on or when you start lining up--is a matter of interpretation.
This part I was discussing myself. Prior to this match I had only seen refs call a 20pt for something like this because the pushing robot had not directly affected their climb, because the climb had not started. I was shocked to hear when the ref had said that they consider lining up to the pyramid, as "in the act of climbing" and that we had affected their climb. Going with that explanation, couldn't my climb start when we raise our climbing device across the field on my way to climb?
If we had never broke contact with 148 during the push and they raised their climbing mechanism just before we pushed them into the pyramid, how should that be called? (I'm honestly interested in any opinions, I'm not trying to make a point)
In the end, most people I talked to believed that they would only tack on the 30pt climb credit if the opposing robot contacted them during a climb. I see a "climb" as a robot off the ground, a robot touching the ground isn't a "climb". In my eye we affected the lining up process of a climb, not the climb itself, but lining up fell into this refs definition of a climb, so that is why he gave the 50pt penalty.
As a driver I knew not to interfere with a climb, and I would have never done that if I had known what they considered a climb.
Lesson learned: stay away from the opposing pyramid.
Regardless of that call we had an amazing time at Championships this year, 2056 and 3990 were great partners as well. We were ecstatic to be able to play with you guys and are sad that we were only able to make it to the semi finals.
Ricky Q.
28-04-2013, 12:11
One of the mentors obviously was not happy with the red card that was called on their alliance. I believe security/police were called but I don't think anything else happened after the situation.
Not quite. We were obviously upset and looking for an explanation of the call. There might have been some raised voices and animated discussions but nothing more than that. Security and police were definitely not involved.
Did anyone notice the mentor for 148 that had to be restrained after the red card was called?
I'm one of the drivers for 862 and our partner 148 did not have to be restrained down on the field after the red card what ended up happening was that after the redcard 4814 67 and 1918 appealed to the judges saying that there was no penalty and that their climb was not effected. This had no bearing on the judges call though. No student or mentor on the field had to be physically restrained. Both alliances played great and it was unfortunate the results of the first match. 4814 67 and 1918 are amazing competitors and I thank them for backing us up on this questionable call and acting with gracious professionalism. I would like to thank 1678 and 148 for being a great alliance. We had an amazing run with you guys.
Not quite. We were obviously upset and looking for an explanation of the call. There might have been some raised voices and animated discussions but nothing more than that. Security and police were definitely not involved.
Okay, misinformation I guess. I guess it looked different from people I talked to in the stands.
Adam Freeman
28-04-2013, 12:21
One of the mentors obviously was not happy with the red card that was called on their alliance. I believe security/police were called but I don't think anything else happened after the situation.
Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.
For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.
No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.
1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.
1975Flyers
28-04-2013, 12:33
Thanks for clearing that up.
Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.
For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.
No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.
1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.
Okay, I wasn't quite sure of the situation, I had just noticed that someone else had posted about it and I had heard similar. My mistake, that is why I deleted the post. Didn't mean any harm, I was interested in hearing the full story as well.
G27 does not state the exact method used to interfere with the pyramid. The use of the word "interfere" suggests that a robot can affect the opposing pyramid in other ways besides direct contact. I would say pushing another robot into the pyramid is one such way of initiating contact with the pyramid.
[...]
When it comes to climbing, there's a lot of overlap between G27 and G30. If the refs were going to call one of these fouls, they should have called both. Since G27 was not called, I am left thinking that the climb bonus should not have been added for an affected climb.
And as I said...
G27 DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS SITUATION. Stop trying to confuse the issue.
G30 governs contact with a robot that is in contact with its own pyramid. G27 governs contact with an opponents pyramid. Do both of them contain a provision that if a climb is interfered with, the climb bonus is applied? Yes. Does that mean that if a climb is interfered with, both are triggered? No. That's like saying that an intentional tip in eliminations is the same as arriving with an uninspected robot in quals.
If they had called both fouls, this is the total foul points assessed: 40 points on two technicals, 30 points on a climb bonus (can't do two), and a red card. That's an awful lot for pushing a robot into its own tower, don't you think? And they'd have to come up with a far-fetched reasoning to apply G27 on top of G30--which you are doing--that wouldn't stand up under scrutiny and would cause quite a few questions. Both rules have their own penalties. It is quite possible to cause one without triggering a violation of the other.
The later penalty was called as a G27 (and according to the affected alliance, shouldn't have been called as anything). This one was called as a G30. Not the same call.
OrangeCataclysm
28-04-2013, 13:30
This is from the perspective of one of 862's pit crew, not a driver or coach, but I did get a very close look at what happened in both the semi-finals and the finals.
In the semis, I doubt I need to explain what happened, and despite intentions, I knew the 50 point fowl would be called. I've seen that fowl been called at least twice and Michigan, but none so blatant. I'm not saying 967 intended to interfere with the climb, but they definitely pushed 148 too far, and incurred the penalty nonetheless.
I can't say I'm too happy about winning the semis on penalty points, but what happens happens. I apologize to the number 4 alliance for their misfortune, but a call had to be made all the same.
As for the red card incident, it was actually our team that incurred the red card. As a spectator down at the field, I saw our robot run over 1918's ground collector while they were touching the pyramid. One of the drivers told me he was pushed into 1918 when that happened, and in my opinion, our action had very little to do with their fall from the pyramid.
But: The refs needed to be consistent. They already called 967 on affecting the outcome of a climb, and since 1918 fell, they carded us on having caused it through the contact. Our main driver seemed pretty beat up about the whole thing, and seeing the opposing alliance argue in our favor was one of the best examples of gracious professionalism I've ever seen. I see little point to the red card because the number three alliance would have won without it. But it was a tough decision, and I applaud the refs for making a call, even if it was such an unpopular one.
Thank you to both the number 3, and 4 alliance members for being good sports about the whole situation.
Thank you to both the number 3, and 4 alliance members for being good sports about the whole situation.
I think I can speak for everybody in saying both situations made curie division memorable for those involved this year.
audietron
28-04-2013, 14:37
This is the whole semifinal 1-3 showing how great all 6 teams played.
the entire team of 967 would like to congratulate 1678,148, & 862 for there great performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR39_owT9X8&feature=youtu.be
Just a quick note - assuming that each division, each year, has a 1/4 chance of winning everything (Obviously not true but simpler for math), the Curie Curse had ~3.2% chance of surviving.
Some thoughts. It'll be a long post.
Thanks to 2056 and 3990 for being great partners. Getting picked by 2056 in the first round was like winning the lottery - I did not see that coming.
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on winning the division and making it to Einstein - you guys deserved it.
Playing in the elimination rounds was really, really exciting. The quarters were all nail biters. Small things made a big difference. That alliance was extremely tough, and kudos to the alliance captain 1310 for putting themselves on my map as a pretty amazing team (I was ignorant of them previously, but I'm sure they're quite well known to everybody who's seen them in action before).
Here is my take on the semifinals. It was pretty obviously necessary for us to play defense on 148, because otherwise they score 100+ points on us. Even if we defend them, we end up letting points through and relying on allies to make up the difference. But defending 148 is pretty tough, because the defender is constantly riding a thin line between committing penalties versus allowing a bunch of points while not scoring any. It's a really tough job for a driver, and one has to react very quickly. Having watched our driver all year at three events, I can say that he has done a phenomenal job. Often enough I've watched other robots and wondered what the driver's plan was or if they have one. Our driver makes really fast decisions and has the skills to execute, and he can switch tactics very quickly as things develop. There have been some pretty impressive moments. Anyway, the defense on 148 was a really tough challenge, and he actually got the better of them in Match 1 (although they still scored a number of discs). He came pretty close to committing a foul at the end of that match, but he pulled off a clean late bump when they weren't yet touching the pyramid, costing them a bit more time. The difference between winning and losing was razor thing. In Match 2, 148 got around us early enough to get off the 40 point climb, and that was decisive. I can imagine that in Match 3 he didn't want to let that happen again. From the stands, we were really tense watching those last 40 seconds of the match after 148 loaded their red discs, knowing that it might be the difference. When the time clicked down to about 20 seconds and they hadn't started climbing, I starting to get pretty excited since it appeared we had it won. Then a few seconds later we saw that hit, and we were pretty sure we had just lost the match. Basically it was a driving error that cost us in the end, and I don't think that's any sort of insult to our driver, who was amazing all season long. Had we won, he would have had to try to walk the same tightrope with 67, and who knows what would have happened. It would have been fun to see. As for the foul call, I was not at all surprised by the 50 point call. I think it could have gone either way, but I don't fault the ref at all, and we put ourselves at the mercy of that call by putting on that late hit.
Getting picked by 2056 in a division that had been splintered by declines was a better situation than I could have imagined had I tried to dream up a best case scenario. Sometimes getting to Einstein seems like an impossible dream. Losing this chance on a penalty carried a pretty big sting, so it will take a little while for that to wear off. When it does, we will definitely look back on this season and know that it was our best yet. I wish we could have helped 2056 get their first win, especially after events last year that shall not be spoken of.
This season has been pretty grueling. We had a rough build season, focusing a TON of resources and energy on our 30 point climber. That includes all of our time right up to the KC regional. After a REALLY grueling KC event where we constantly reinvented the robot, we decided to abandon the climber. We were a pure cycler by the end of KC, installing the 10 pt climber for Minnesota. After catching a few breaks and winning in MN, we knew we needed more than a shooter and a 10 point hang to have a real shot at the Championship. So we upgraded to 2 speed drive and put the extending blocker on. It was quite a journey. Champs qualifiers were pretty amazing - most matches were quite close with lots of good allies and opponents. Even if we hadn't been picked, I would have been fairly satisfied with the event. All things considered, advancing to the semis for the first time and being on a great alliance was a really great prize for us. It makes us want to come back for more.
Now it's time to focus on some of the other burning issues, like how to get more funding, how to be more organized, how to recruit more girls, how to find more space, how to get more mentors, how to be more visible, and....
SciBorg Dave
28-04-2013, 16:22
In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?
Jeremy Germita
28-04-2013, 16:35
In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?
I was on the arena floor next to the alliance pits behind the Curie field, attending to 399's bot as we were #4 in line in the backup pool.
2996 had issues in 2-1 with CAN and Jaguars. That incapacitated them and the alliance called the backup. As per tournament rules, 1138 Eagle Engineering, the highest ranked team not selected became their backup robot. Also as per tournament rules, team 2996 would not be allowed to continue play even if they were able to repair the situation.
Grim Tuesday
28-04-2013, 16:57
Just a quick note - assuming that each division, each year, has a 1/4 chance of winning everything (Obviously not true but simpler for math), the Curie Curse had ~3.2% chance of surviving.
The Curie Curse had a 75% chance of surviving this year. The Curie Curse surviving this long has had a 3.2% chance of having happened.
In semi 2-1 teams 1983-3539-2996
In semi 2-2 teams 1983-3539-1138
I feel sad for team 2996 to have come that far and be forced to with draw.
What happen to 2996 ?
From what I was told by a friend of mine involved with 2996, they got rammed into the pyramid really hard in their last quarter final match and that mangled up their robot pretty bad, to the point where they couldn't continue.
themccannman
29-04-2013, 01:24
Some thoughts. It'll be a long post.
*long post*
You guys played incredibly well, I was really impressed with your alliance, I feel really bad that so many matches were decided by penalty points but that's just how things played out and I hope we did a good job representing all of the incredible teams from the Curie Division on Einstein. You guys really gave us a run for our money.
hionwind
29-04-2013, 10:51
On behalf of team 1678, I would like to congratulate all of the great teams that competed in the Curie division this year. We had an amazing run and were honored to have made it to the Einstein stage.
Thank you to teams 148 and 862 for completing our awesome alliance. You are both a class act and worked flawlessly with us to execute the game strategy.
Also, a big thank you to all of the teams that competed against us in the elimination rounds. 103, 2168 and 4564 put up some strong resistance in the quarter finals and kept us on our toes. 2056, 967 and 3990 was a scary opponent to have to face in the semis. And 4814, 67 and 1918 took us through a roller-coaster of emotions in the finals.
I want to especially thank team 67 for your supportive comments about our alliance and for clarifying the incident that led to our red card.
It was a dream come true for our team to compete on Einstein and putting up the high score (233) for the Einstein matches was an added bonus.
Congratulations to 1477, 610 and 1241. Your alliance was a scoring machine and you thoroughly deserve to be crowned world champs.
Unless something else happened away from the ref discussion and both alliances gathered near the field, there we no 148 members that needed to be restrained during this situation.
For everyone else, in F1 1918 fell off the tower from the 30pt level. The refs ruled that someone on the red alliance hit the tower, causing 1918 to fall. That is not what happened! We actually knocked off 1918, when we hit the top of the tower trying to get our hooks latched to pull up to level 3. When the decision to red card 1678, a student from 1918 was so upset that the call was incorrect that he passionately objected to the call. We had to stop him from approaching the head ref.
No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.
1678, 148, and 862 proceeded to out execute us enroute to a trip to Einstein in F2 and F3. All three teams were awesome in those matches and on the big stage.
I concur with what Adam says. After review of the climb on our goPro camera We were not completely hooked at the top of the tower when 67 hit and the top of the tower. I do not think we would have fallen had the tower had not been hit. Also not sure we could have hung on with that hit if we had been hooked correctly. After the fall we all agreed that letting 67 get hooked before we went for the top rung was the best plan.
It was an honor to be picked and be able to play with 4814 and 67
Thanks to both of you for having the confidence to pick the 69th ranked team in the division.
Adam Freeman
29-04-2013, 11:39
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on getting a chance to play on FRC's biggest stage!
1678 - You guys went out there and earned a #1 seed in the division. We were really impressed with your teams ability to do it all. Even playing defense in certain matches, when paired with better scores. That ability to play to your alliances strengths was very inspiring for us. I was very suprised to see you declined that many times during alliance selection. It was obvious that this was a planned move (very smart/strategic), and your student representative was very calm going through it. We were hoping to get a chance to play with you. Our styles would have been a good mix for one another, since we have similar capabilities to 148. Hard to argue with the results though. We were under the impression you were selecting 1717 first, I assumed they were going to accept your invitiation. If I had known they would decline, we would have made our sales pitch much harder.
148 - Ah...our GREAT friends from Texas. What a blast it was to finally play in a division with you guys. I wish we hadn't had to play each other so many times, without ever getting to play together. I'm sure we could have made a double FCS alliance work pretty well. I think I was with at least one member of 148 about 70% of the time I was in St. Louis, either standing around watching matches or hanging out afterwards. We just had an awesome time hanging together.
I had lots of text conversations with JVN through the build season. I know he struggled a lot with how to build a climber to play this game (we shared similar pain). I'm glad that all the hard work paid off and your robot was able to pull of a climb on Einstein. It's the goal we all work towards!
862 - You guys have been awesome all season. I love the adaptation from super cycler to full-on FCS defender. If not for looking for a very specific type of machine to help our alliance, I'm sure you guys would have been very high on our list of teams to select. Awesome job this year! You guys were impossible to push out of position to get our shots off. Thanks for representing Michigan so well on Einstein.
Thanks to 4814 and 1918 for being great alliance partners.
4814 - You guys are one heck of a defender. You shut down 2056 enough to beat them in your qualification match and ranked above them. Your defensive prowess really showed when you compare the performances of 1717, 3539, and 148 with and without your defense on them. Especially to see the Curie champs go on to Einstein and put up 233 points. Incredible defenders! I can't say this was the alliance of my dreams, but we made the most of it. I honestly think we would have had a shot out there on Einstein, with your defense and our offense. I think they might of let us shoot...:eek:. I will be expecting great things from you guys in the future. You have the makings of another powerhouse Canadian team. Thanks for picking us, it was a fun while it lasted!
1918 - What a steal of a second pick. Since MSC I've wanted to do a double or triple climber alliance. We were so excited when you were available for us. I thought we could FCS + Climb our way there. You all worked so hard to keep that robot running correctly, especially after two falls off the pyramid. Just amazing how you were able to keep if shooting, driving, and climbing after all that. Unfortunately, we met our match with 862's drivetrain....at a certain point Shifter > Single speed. Not sure how you managed to get us a shooting lane in F1, but they must have learned what not to do after that. We've been trying to play together for years now. I'm glad we finally got the chance. Hopefully it will happen more in the future now.
67 - To my team....what an interesting season. Hold your heads high with your three silver medals. We gave it all we could! Thanks for working so hard on getting us a great machine to play with.
A couple of other shout outs.... 2056, we were so close I could taste it to getting a shot to play together. I guess third time is was not the charm. Fourth, maybe? You guys are awesome, #1 in Curie in our book. Keep it up, you'll get there! Congrats on an incredible season.
3539, our friends from MI. They are really bulldogs! They just keep working hard, cleaning up the floor and scoring discs. Congrats on a great machine and great season!
1717 - I always enjoy seeing you guys at Champs! Congrats on an incredible season.
-Adam
Chris Fultz
29-04-2013, 12:28
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 for a great run on Curie.
Awesome alliance.
Thanks to 1717 for the selection and to 135 for joing the alliance.
We all tried two approaches to shut down 67's FCS option, but the offensive-defense from 4814 was too much to overcome. Well executed plan.
Great weekend on Curie and congratulations to everyone on the field for the competition and to everyone working the field for keeping it moving so well.
Thad House
29-04-2013, 12:54
Does anyone have video or audio of the award ceremony on Curie? If anyone does we would like to get a copy of it so we can show it to our sponsors because of RAS.
Thanks to 234 from our home state of Indiana and 1717 for making us apart of finals. It was great fun! We hope to work with both of you again, you are both great teams! We also can't wait to see 234 again in a few weeks at the Indiana State Champs, maybe we can play on the same alliance again ;)
SoccerTaco
29-04-2013, 15:28
A few Curie shout outs from Team 3824....
Team 67 - I was coach of a FLL team years ago that qualified for the "World Festival" in Atlanta. Staying in the same hotel was this huge team of HOT high school kids. My kids and I talked to a number of the students and mentors at the hotel. It was our first exposure to FRC. We were all extremely impressed and I've been a fan of Team HOT ever since. So, I was excited when I saw that we were in the same division this year.
Your robot was extremely impressive and it was great to be able to meet some of your team in the pits.
Team 359 - Very exciting match against your team, with your alliance winning 152-141. After the match, one of your mentors came up to members of our drive team and complimented them on their play. Very cool, very classy.
We got banged pretty good that match, and unfortunately did not realize that our gyro came unplugged until our next match Saturday morning, where in autonomous mode we spun in circles for a while and then launched three frisbees up into the crowd. Oops! :)
Team 1310 and 1684 - It was great playing with you in the elimination rounds. Thanks so much to Team 1310 for the invite - I believe that the 231 points we put up together in the qualifications remained the high score on Curie.
Team 16 - Your ground pickup was fantastic. We loved having the chance to play a match together.
Teams 2056, 967 and 3990 - You guys were dominating. I was rooting for you after you took us out, and was disappointed how things ended for you.
Team 4814 - You were an amazing defensive force. The match we played together with you in qualification was awesome. Great strategy, well executed. You went undefeated and took home too many awards for your alliance captain to hold onto - what an incredible display you put on!
And finally, major congrats to the Curie champs of 1678, 862, 148!! We were of course all rooting for you on Einstein.
themccannman
29-04-2013, 17:26
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on getting a chance to play on FRC's biggest stage!
1678 - You guys went out there and earned a #1 seed in the division. We were really impressed with your teams ability to do it all. Even playing defense in certain matches, when paired with better scores. That ability to play to your alliances strengths was very inspiring for us. I was very surprised to see you declined that many times during alliance selection. It was obvious that this was a planned move (very smart/strategic), and your student representative was very calm going through it. We were hoping to get a chance to play with you. Our styles would have been a good mix for one another, since we have similar capabilities to 148. Hard to argue with the results though. We were under the impression you were selecting 1717 first, I assumed they were going to accept your invitation. If I had known they would decline, we would have made our sales pitch much harder.
Thank you for the compliments! You are correct that we had planned for those teams to decline us in order to break up the power team alliances that would have otherwise been formed.
I actually really wish that you had come and talked to our other head-strategist (I am the other) because you were actually the first team on our list that we expected to accept, which essentially made you our first actual pick. However, after you lost your last qualification match our other head-strategist switched you and 148 at the top of our list which I disagreed with since I thought your performance was just a fluke mistake. I agree that we would have made a great alliance which is why I was extremely nervous facing you in the finals, however I'm extremely proud of 148's performance and I don't regret picking them one bit, they played killer offense and carried our alliance further than I could ever hope for.
I was also incredibly impressed by 4814, coming out of Curie in 3rd seed as a rookie team is unheard of, I really thought you guys were going to take the Curie curse to it's grave with your phenomenal teamwork with 67 and 1918. A rookie team captaining an alliance to win Einstein and break the Curie curse would have gone down as a legendary moment in history, and the best part is that it actually almost happened, I really thought you guys were going to take home the gold.
msaunders
29-04-2013, 17:46
http://youtu.be/5_khdRfl11w
Curie Finals Match 1-3 of the 2013 FIRST World Championship
Red - FRC1678 FRC148 FRC862
Blue - FRC4814 FRC67 FRC1918
Score: Red 0 - DQ Blue 186
@1:23 862 runs over the collector of 1918 while they are setting up to climb
@1:43 67 and 1918 Tower Climbing and 1918 falls
Citrus Dad
29-04-2013, 18:05
G27 does not state the exact method used to interfere with the pyramid. The use of the word "interfere" suggests that a robot can affect the opposing pyramid in other ways besides direct contact. I would say pushing another robot into the pyramid is one such way of initiating contact with the pyramid.
967 purposely (in the ref's eyes, hence the G30 violation) used 148 as means to contact the pyramid to create a momentary pin (otherwise that would have been a 3pt foul). That's both indirect (but not inconsequential) contact and interference with the pyramid (use of the pyramid in a way it was not supposed to be used: the "safe zone" rules surrounding the pyramid clearly shows that the pyramid is not meant to be used to pin robots). Again, the climb points awarded to 148 show that the refs felt that 148's climb was affected: under G27, 967 should have been given a red card as well for interference with the pyramid and affecting a climb.
When it comes to climbing, there's a lot of overlap between G27 and G30. If the refs were going to call one of these fouls, they should have called both. Since G27 was not called, I am left thinking that the climb bonus should not have been added for an affected climb.
I will point out that we had this exact situation happen to us in a semifinal at Central Valley with our alliance contacting a robot about to climb from behind and driving them into the pyramid. At first the referee DQd our alliance, but then corrected the call to the 20 pt penalty plus 30 pt climb. We lost the match then. The interpretation in this semi was consistent with the interpretation in that regional in every way.
Citrus Dad
29-04-2013, 18:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Freeman
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862 on getting a chance to play on FRC's biggest stage!
1678 - You guys went out there and earned a #1 seed in the division. We were really impressed with your teams ability to do it all. Even playing defense in certain matches, when paired with better scores. That ability to play to your alliances strengths was very inspiring for us. I was very surprised to see you declined that many times during alliance selection. It was obvious that this was a planned move (very smart/strategic), and your student representative was very calm going through it. We were hoping to get a chance to play with you. Our styles would have been a good mix for one another, since we have similar capabilities to 148. Hard to argue with the results though. We were under the impression you were selecting 1717 first, I assumed they were going to accept your invitation. If I had known they would decline, we would have made our sales pitch much harder.
Thank you for the compliments! You are correct that we had planned for those teams to decline us in order to break up the power team alliances that would have otherwise been formed.
themccannman:
I actually really wish that you had come and talked to our other head-strategist (I am the other) because you were actually the first team on our list that we expected to accept, which essentially made you our first actual pick. However, after you lost your last qualification match our other head-strategist switched you and 148 at the top of our list which I disagreed with since I thought your performance was just a fluke mistake. I agree that we would have made a great alliance which is why I was extremely nervous facing you in the finals, however I'm extremely proud of 148's performance and I don't regret picking them one bit, they played killer offense and carried our alliance further than I could ever hope for.
Just a humorous side note: we actually gave 4814 our scouting data to help them pick since they were a rookie team so the reason they picked you was actually because you were at the top of the list we gave them.
I was also incredibly impressed by 4814, coming out of Curie in 3rd seed as a rookie team is unheard of, I really thought you guys were going to take the Curie curse to it's grave with your phenomenal teamwork with 67 and 1918. A rookie team captaining an alliance to win Einstein and break the Curie curse would have gone down as a legendary moment in history, and the best part is that it actually almost happened, I really thought you guys were going to take home the gold.
To reiterate on Jake's comment, the choice between 67 and 148 was very difficult, and we could have been swayed. On the other hand, 148 was amazing.
Truly more amazing to us was that 862 was still available. I believe they were literally our top pick (I don't have our list here) for our 2nd robot because of their driving skills combined with offensive output. We had our ground pickup, 862's cycling and 148's FCS. Hard to beat.
We gamed out the draft with the "power" teams declining, and we expected that 1983 (later confirmed--my nephew was on their team 2 years ago) would do the same thing. Given that the "punishment game" seemed fairly likely, we thought that one of those teams would recognize the situation and accept our offer instead--the optimal solution to the punishment game is to cooperate.
The whole experience was very exciting and rewarding. We got functioning an electronic scouting system that communicates using cell phone lines to a server and then to an iPhone app used by our drive team. The entire system was built by the students with no real technical assistance from mentors. I only gave them what data should be collected at the front end, and what the data summary should look like at the back end. We're interested in a shareware development process to further enhance its functionality.
But there was one additional "superpower" that we had--Mike Corsetto. His insights and analysis during the strategy session was key to our selection rankings. Jake also was a huge contributor. The quantitative data helped tremendously, but it still took the human factor.
Also, having my brother in law's team, 1983 Skunkworks finish right behind us in qualifying could not be more exciting. My sister was able to watch both of us succeed beyond anything before. Thanks to the Skunks for adding to our meager team at Einstein!
4814 assembled an "optimal" alliance. I'm sure that they supplemented what we shared to get 1918, which turned out to be a perfect partner in a defense/climb oriented alliance.
Citrus Dad
29-04-2013, 18:46
It's pretty liked that 1678 had already talked with all four teams and was told they'd be declined. Knowing that, they clearly wanted to breakup any potential powerhouse alliances to make sure they still had a chance at winning the division. Given their eventual pick, I wouldn't be surprised if 148 suggested the strategy to begin with, really. So you shouldn't feel bad for the rep, they almost certainly expected that and were executing the relatively standard scorched earth strategy that non-powerhouse 1st seeds often end up with.
We thought they might decline us the night before in our strategy session. We got some confirmation just before the draft. We didn't talk to 148--we were trying to decide between them and 67 right up to the end--tough choice! We knew that 1983 would finish the job if one of other teams accepted us. (We had talked with them--I sat with the Skunks much of the weekend.) Our team captain was in no way disturbed by the outcome.
But as an economist, I'll say that the correct response to a "punishment game" generally is cooperation. John Nash didn't win the Nobel for nothing.
Citrus Dad
29-04-2013, 19:06
No one from either alliance wanted to see 1678 red carded. I believe we won that match without it, and wanted the scores to reflect the actual events of the match.
1678 knew we had lost that match before the penalty was awarded. That alliance was amazing and fit together almost perfectly.
waialua359
29-04-2013, 19:10
A few Curie shout outs from Team 3824....
Team 359 - Very exciting match against your team, with your alliance winning 152-141. After the match, one of your mentors came up to members of our drive team and complimented them on their play. Very cool, very classy.
We got banged pretty good that match, and unfortunately did not realize that our gyro came unplugged until our next match Saturday morning, where in autonomous mode we spun in circles for a while and then launched three frisbees up into the crowd. Oops! :).
It was me who came to talk to you folks.
I personally raved about how awesome you were to members of 67, 148, 3539, 987, 33, and many many others.
I can't believe I never heard of your team before, because your machine was up there like the other great shooting machines.
The fact that you were a 3D printed bot made it more impressive!
I just got 2 new machines and look forward to incorporating more if the technology into components of our future robots.
Thanks again for inspiring us.
-Glenn
Wow without a doubt this has been the most exciting competition I have been a part of. Our expectations for the weekend were blown away by what happened!
Thank you to our truly amazing alliance partners 1678 Citrus Circuits and 148 Robowranglers!
1678 you guys earned a well deserved #1 seed and your alliance selection strategy was brilliant! You assembled a very well balanced alliance between your floor pick up 148's FCS and our cycling and defense. Thank you for having faith in our abilities and selecting us (we were getting very nervous that we would go un-selected). And thank you for sticking by us after two technical problems in QF1-1 and QF1-2, I feel terrible were were unable to help in those matches.
148 you guys were an amazing full court shooter, not to mention that climb (scary but effective)! Getting to work with you guys was a true honor your level of preparation, strategy, gracious professionalism are truly inspiring! We learned a lot from you guys on what it takes to make it through a Championship elimination tournament.
A huge thank you to all the individuals who came to help try to diagnose and fix our control problems in the quarterfinals, I didn't catch names but I know there were several guys from California teams as well as from 148.
To all of our opponents in the eliminations 103, 4564, 2168, 2056, 967, 3990, 4814, 1918, and 67 you were all extremely strong alliances it was an honor to play against you all.
As for Finals 1 I really don't know what to say. Watching the video posted above we did clearly drive over 1918's collector. I say this with all my heart that we are truly sorry about that, this was NOT an intentional move, we honestly couldn't see their collector there. It was an error on our part and as coach I take full responsibility for it. Thank you to 1918, 67 and 4814 for being so gracious after the indecent I hope you will accept my deepest apologies for this happening.
1918 you guys are an amazing team, twice this year you have given us a run for our money in the finals, first at West Michigan then on Curie.
67 as always you produced an absolutely amazing machine! You guys are a team I been in awe of my entire time in FRC. Adam thanks for your kind words above, it was truly a pleasure to play against you in the divisional finals!
4814 an amazing job by an amazing rookie team congratulations on all your success and good luck next season!
Citrus Dad
30-04-2013, 12:36
1678 you guys earned a well deserved #1 seed and your alliance selection strategy was brilliant! You assembled a very well balanced alliance between your floor pick up 148's FCS and our cycling and defense. Thank you for having faith in our abilities and selecting us (we were getting very nervous that we would go un-selected). And thank you for sticking by us after two technical problems in QF1-1 and QF1-2, I feel terrible were were unable to help in those matches.
That your team was still available for us was truly amazing--you should have gone much higher in the draft! We were overjoyed to have you on our team. The roles you played were tremendous. I've watched our first semi final in Einstein several times and how we dominated was amazing. If we hadn't had shut down in the second match, who know what would have happened! Thanks so much.
BTW, if 862 did drive over 1918's collector, the correct penalty should be the same as 2056's alliance incurred in the semifinal--a 20 point technical and a 30 point climb rather than a DQ. Either way however, it would not have changed the outcome.
Adam Freeman
30-04-2013, 19:06
Does anyone have vidoes of the Curie qualification or eliminations matches?
I can't seem to find very many on youtube....and none that we were in.
If so, can you please upload them and/or post a link.
Thanks,
Adam
Jeff Waegelin
01-05-2013, 18:22
Thanks so much to our amazing alliance partners, 1678 and 862. It was a real pleasure getting to work with an alliance that worked so well together!
To 1678 - what an amazing job, you really turned it up to 11 in the eliminations! I knew you guys were good, but you took it to a whole new level all afternoon. Thanks so much for giving us the honor of being the #1 selection, and all the great matches and memories that came with it. I really enjoyed re-watching some matches and seeing how you guys would sneak right in and steal discs right in front of our opponents faces! And special thanks to Mike Corsetto, it was great to get to work with you again after some great matches at SVR!
862 - I couldn't believe we were able to get you guys so late in the draft! You were able to fill so many roles so well - blocker, defender, additional scorer. That versatility and great driving really helped us construct a winning strategy.
Thanks again to both of your teams - it was a great run, and gave our team some memories we'll never forget!
Also, thanks to some of our opponents: 2056 - for some real nailbiter matches out there. It was probably the toughest, most fiercely fought series I've been a part of in 13 years. It could have easily gone the other way, and I loved getting to match up against you guys.
67 - Oh to have gotten to play with you just once! We had 4 amazing matches against y'all, and every one was a battle. It was fun to go against another team that made (almost) as crazy of design decisions as us ;) Maybe at IRI we can finally get that double-FCS match together!
And to everyone else in the division - what a weekend! It was a battle every single match out there, from start to finish, and thanks to everyone for raising the level of competition and some unforgettable matches.
DampRobot
01-05-2013, 19:19
But there was one additional "superpower" that we had--Mike Corsetto. His insights and analysis during the strategy session was key to our selection rankings. Jake also was a huge contributor. The quantitative data helped tremendously, but it still took the human factor.
Michael Corsetto is one of the coolest guys I have ever met in FRC, and a great competitor. I had no idea he was with you guys at CMP, but it seems like his and your team would work really well together (too bad it didn't play out quite as we all hoped at SAC).
Did he help you out at all during build season?
Wayne TenBrink
01-05-2013, 21:14
I have been with the NC Gears since their start in 2006, and haven't missed a single one of our matches - that is until the last half of CMP, including the elimination rounds. What's worse, I didn't have access to the webcast, so I had to rely on telephone updates, and I still haven't been able to see most of the matches. It sounds like I missed a lot of great matches on Saturday afternoon. It was very difficult for a guy like me. By next year most of us won't remember who beat who in what match, but we will all remember the highs and lows, the comeraderie, the productive stress, the perpetual sense of urgency, and (if you were an NC Gear) the bus ride home (except for me because I had to leave early and had a pleasant road trip). It is indeed a priveledge to be part of FIRST and to go to CMP. Never take it for granted.
Congratulations to 1678, 148, and 862. The whole was better than the sum of the parts, and the parts were each very tough! It was good to see 862 again - in a gracious loser sort of way.
Thanks to 4814 and 67. 4814 - We never saw you in quals and I had no idea who you were. Obviously you earned every bit of your way to the #3 seed by beating some of the powerhouse teams on Curie. It was an honor to be on your alliance. 67 - It was great to be allied with you at last. We have always considered you to be one of our role models - whether on the field, off the field, or in your approach to creating robots that effectively play the game.
And as for the DQ match, I don't think anybody thinks it was deserved. Fortunately, it didn't have any effect on the ultimate outcome. As it turns out, it was little more than an opportunity for competitors to come together in agreement on something. FIRST is a great environment for that sort of thing.
Michael Corsetto
01-05-2013, 23:01
I'm still trying to process what happened last weekend. Wow, what a ride!
148 - I was overjoyed when we got to your team on our pick list. I've never had the pleasure of working with you before this year, and to partner with y'all back-to-back at SVR and CMP was a real treat. You have the deepest mentor team I've ever worked with, Jeff, Kevin, Colin, Ricky, Adrienne, Jay, and all the mentors were amazing! And your students are really a top-notch bunch, focused, committed and hugely invested in the program. Consider me your #1 fan after this weekend. Also, I'll be in Dallas this weekend. I'm hugely tempted to try to get over to Greenville ;)
862 - Like has been said a gazillion times already, how were you available as the last pick in the draft?!? I remember inspecting your robot early Thursday morning and being impressed by the build quality and simplicity of your machine. Getting to talk with a few of your students and mentors even before Saturday afternoon, it became obvious that your team is made up of some of the most Gracious people in FIRST. In strategy sessions, your willingness to do just about anything asked of you was inspiring. Not to mention you did everything extremely well! Thanks for rounding out our dream alliance.
1717, 1310, 2056, 67, 1983, 359, 3539 - You all inspire me immensely. I loved having so many awesome teams in Curie, it meant less of a commute to see a bunch of amazing robots :D We did have a fairly advantageous qualification schedule, and that meant being to play on the same side of the glass with quite a few of you. Thank you for continuing to hold a level of excellence that myself and my students strive towards. 1717 especially, I love your team. The seniors every year are a joy to talk to. I know at least one of your seniors is going to UC Davis next year, I told her to look into helping out 1678 ;) Go Ags!
1678 - I am so unbelievably proud of you all! I don't even know where to start. Each student stepped it up a notch at CMP. The entire team was focused and efficient, debugging issues and making fixes on the fly. I think there were at least three mechanical failures during Saturday afternoon that would take any normal person an hour to fix, but because of careful planning and ridiculously talented students, the robot was up and operational at the start of every match. The mentor base that you are building is growing every year, and I'm excited for what that means for the years to come! Steve, thanks for everything you have done for 1678. You haven't missed a beat since I graduated, and it shows with where the team is now. Keep it up, friend!
Lastly, thank you 1678 for the honor of having me with your pit and drive team on Einstein. It was an unreal experience that I won't forget anytime soon.
DampRobot, to answer your question, I mentored 1678 through college, and have tried to stay involved where I can since graduating in 2011. Luckily, 1662 takes Sunday's off, so I was able to visit 1678 many weekends while maintaining my responsibilities as Lead Mentor of 1662. However, I had very little involvement with the design of 1678's incredible machine, I mostly showed up for moral support and as another person to bounce ideas off of. They are an incredibly talented team with a lot of momentum moving forward!
-Mike
hionwind
04-05-2013, 14:08
I'm still trying to process what happened last weekend. Wow, what a ride!
148 - I was overjoyed when we got to your team on our pick list. I've never had the pleasure of working with you before this year, and to partner with y'all back-to-back at SVR and CMP was a real treat. You have the deepest mentor team I've ever worked with, Jeff, Kevin, Colin, Ricky, Adrienne, Jay, and all the mentors were amazing! And your students are really a top-notch bunch, focused, committed and hugely invested in the program. Consider me your #1 fan after this weekend. Also, I'll be in Dallas this weekend. I'm hugely tempted to try to get over to Greenville ;)
862 - Like has been said a gazillion times already, how were you available as the last pick in the draft?!? I remember inspecting your robot early Thursday morning and being impressed by the build quality and simplicity of your machine. Getting to talk with a few of your students and mentors even before Saturday afternoon, it became obvious that your team is made up of some of the most Gracious people in FIRST. In strategy sessions, your willingness to do just about anything asked of you was inspiring. Not to mention you did everything extremely well! Thanks for rounding out our dream alliance.
1717, 1310, 2056, 67, 1983, 359, 3539 - You all inspire me immensely. I loved having so many awesome teams in Curie, it meant less of a commute to see a bunch of amazing robots :D We did have a fairly advantageous qualification schedule, and that meant being to play on the same side of the glass with quite a few of you. Thank you for continuing to hold a level of excellence that myself and my students strive towards. 1717 especially, I love your team. The seniors every year are a joy to talk to. I know at least one of your seniors is going to UC Davis next year, I told her to look into helping out 1678 ;) Go Ags!
1678 - I am so unbelievably proud of you all! I don't even know where to start. Each student stepped it up a notch at CMP. The entire team was focused and efficient, debugging issues and making fixes on the fly. I think there were at least three mechanical failures during Saturday afternoon that would take any normal person an hour to fix, but because of careful planning and ridiculously talented students, the robot was up and operational at the start of every match. The mentor base that you are building is growing every year, and I'm excited for what that means for the years to come! Steve, thanks for everything you have done for 1678. You haven't missed a beat since I graduated, and it shows with where the team is now. Keep it up, friend!
Lastly, thank you 1678 for the honor of having me with your pit and drive team on Einstein. It was an unreal experience that I won't forget anytime soon.
DampRobot, to answer your question, I mentored 1678 through college, and have tried to stay involved where I can since graduating in 2011. Luckily, 1662 takes Sunday's off, so I was able to visit 1678 many weekends while maintaining my responsibilities as Lead Mentor of 1662. However, I had very little involvement with the design of 1678's incredible machine, I mostly showed up for moral support and as another person to bounce ideas off of. They are an incredibly talented team with a lot of momentum moving forward!
-Mike
Thanks for all the great things you said about our team Mike.
It was such a pleasure having you with us to help with organization and strategy. Working with you and seeing our team go so far at CMP almost makes up for the disappointment in Davis.
You are truly a FIRST guru and you have made many teams better with your leadership and knowledge. 1678 would not be where we are today without your help. Good luck in finding a job next year and, if that job brings you back to Davis, we look forward to working with you again.
Citrus Dad
04-05-2013, 20:05
Does anyone have vidoes of the Curie qualification or eliminations matches?
I can't seem to find very many on youtube....and none that we were in.
If so, can you please upload them and/or post a link.
Thanks,
Adam
Try this channel. I know you're in several there (pushing us to the edge... ;^) )
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsjJtgNzLgWqKv4q7Nta8NpaPO9C8KIHT
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