Colson Wheels??

[Cash4587]

I'm trying to build a Colson wheel drive system but I need help!! How do I power them? What do I need to get it going? All help is appreciated!!!

[wilsonmw04]

I'm trying to build a Colson wheel drive system but I need help!! How do I power them? What do I need to get it going? All help is appreciated!!!

What size colsons are you looking at? How many wheels per side?

[jwfoss]

WCP products (http://wcproducts.net/hubs/) has two options, live axle and dead axle.

To use with the kitbot (dead axle) you'll need the hubs and two bearings for each wheel.

[ehfeinberg]

WCProducts (http://wcproducts.net/) has some good products to help you get started. They make both live axle (http://wcproducts.net/wcp-00053/) and dead axle (http://wcproducts.net/wcp-00052/) hubs for colson wheels.

Edit: Everybody has the same idea! These must be really good.

[Steven Donow]

http://wcproducts.net/wcp-00052/
http://wcproducts.net/wcp-00053/

Depending on whether you go live axle or dead axle, one of these will become your best friend.

Basically, Colson wheels have no hub when you buy them, so either you have to machine your own, or buy these.

[AlexH]

i'm gonna be the weird guy and say you should get your colsons from battlekits.com

http://www.battlekits.com/robot_wheels.htm#High-Traction%20Wheels%20with%20Sprockets

i've used these before on non first robots and i highly recommend them.


robutt marketspace has a good selection of colson wheels without hubs or sprockets.

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/colson_wheels.html

[Cash4587]

What size colsons are you looking at? How many wheels per side?

I'm looking at using 4" and 3 on each side. Depending on the amount of traction they give, I would then go up to 4. I was going to drop the center one an 1/8th of an inch. Then I belt drive them from a live axle (which I now see that WCP is the best option). Let me up load a picture of what I have so far.

[George C]

We're using 6 6"x1.5" and really like them. We are finding, however, that both the WCP hubs and the ones we made ourselves can shift a bit over time. The next batch will have a shallow thread cut in them or be knurled. We also used an indexing head, narrow slit saw and horizontal mill to cut a diamond pattern to improve traction. The centre wheels are dropped about 1/8"

[Cash4587]

Here is what I have so far. Hope you guys like it, I've been using Solid Works for about 3 weeks now.. Constructive criticism is always welcome. :o

14644
14645

[NXTGeek]

Here is what I have so far. Hope you guys like it, I've been using Solid Works for about 3 weeks now.. Constructive criticism is always welcome. :o

14644
14645

You'll need a way to tension the chain. Here's one way:

[Cash4587]

You'll need a way to tension the chain. Here's one way:

Oh, no chains, I will use 1 belt per side within the rail that are wrapped on either side of the center wheel, Like so:

14647

Those small circles are roller bearings for the belts that can be adjusted up and down.

[sanddrag]

You'll need a way to tension the chain. Here's one way:I wonder where you got that idea. ;) :D

[PAR_WIG1350]

Oh, no chains, I will use 1 belt per side within the rail that are wrapped on either side of the center wheel, Like so:

14647

Those small circles are roller bearings for the belts that can be adjusted up and down.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=976429&postcount=9

be careful

[Cash4587]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=976429&postcount=9

be careful

Would math have to be done in order to perfect this design or what? how can it be done effectively?

[NXTGeek]

I wonder where you got that idea. ;) :D

From my brain (?). I designed this during the first week of build season.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Would math have to be done in order to perfect this design or what? how can it be done effectively?

It might be doable. There is a way to mathematically calculate the proper distances, but you have to ensure that you account for tension. Also, With two short wraps like that, the deflection needed to cause ratcheting is very low, The tension needed to avoid might cause parts to warp lead to binding. If somebody who has tried this disagrees, I would love to hear about your setup, but generally, this isn't done.

I suggest one longer wrap on one side of the pulley and idlers that guide the other side of the belt around the pulley.

[Clem1640]

We used Colsons last year on our pivot drive and were very satisfied. See photographs:
http://wiki.team1640.com/index.php?title=File:DB8_Philadelphia_120412_csm-2.jpg

http://wiki.team1640.com/index.php?title=File:DB8_pivot_calibration_120627_ csm-3.jpg

It was not as easy to install a sprocket as with AndyMark or VexPro, but these wheels are designed to accept sprockets. Still, not so difficult.

We opted for AndyMark HiGrip wheels this year. Light, inexpensive and easy.

[Steven Donow]

We used Colsons last year on our pivot drive and were very satisfied. See photographs:
http://wiki.team1640.com/index.php?title=File:DB8_Philadelphia_120412_csm-2.jpg

http://wiki.team1640.com/index.php?title=File:DB8_pivot_calibration_120627_ csm-3.jpg

It was not as easy to install a sprocket as with AndyMark or VexPro, but these wheels are designed to accept sprockets. Still, not so difficult.

We opted for AndyMark HiGrip wheels this year. Light, inexpensive and easy.

Was weight/ease(ie. not having to make your own hubs and mountings) the only factor in using the HiGrip wheels this year?(as well as lack of a plexi surface like the bridge)

(As a huge fan of your swerve as well as a huge fan of Colsons, this was one of the questions I forgot to ask while taking a look at your swerve at Lehigh)

[Sam_Mills]

We run colsons every year, you will not be disappointed. As for belts, calculating the center to center distances for the pulley placement is well worth the effort (and it isnt very difficult). The Gates HDT belts that come in the KOP will not stretch or wear over the course of a competition season if they are tensioned properly and your belt runs are straight. Even if you implement them terribly, Gates makes really high quality belts, it is doubtful you will break one.

Also, that WDC looks great, if you use this drivetrain, chances are it will be one of the best at any regional you attend.

[Cash4587]

We run colsons every year, you will not be disappointed. As for belts, calculating the center to center distances for the pulley placement is well worth the effort (and it isnt very difficult). The Gates HDT belts that come in the KOP will not stretch or wear over the course of a competition season if they are tensioned properly and your belt runs are straight. Even if you implement them terribly, Gates makes really high quality belts, it is doubtful you will break one.

Also, that WDC looks great, if you use this drivetrain, chances are it will be one of the best at any regional you attend.

Haha thanks! even though I competed against 118 and 148 this year :p I take that compliment quite nicely. I am a rookie this year and that was a chassis I designed after our only regional. We are looking to develop our team for next year and really prove ourselves in our second year.

[TheMadCADer]

Haha thanks! even though I competed against 118 and 148 this year :p I take that compliment quite nicely. I am a rookie this year and that was a chassis I designed after our only regional. We are looking to develop our team for next year and really prove ourselves in our second year.

There are a couple other local teams that could probably help you out with this project. You could take a look at 1477's drive from 2012 (and the one they used this year, also WCD but IFI rough-top) and 624's from this year (6 wheel Colson WCD) if you can. They used Colsons (not sure the specific ones) and a frame design nearly identical to the one you've posted, but with chains instead of belts.

[Cash4587]

There are a couple other local teams that could probably help you out with this project. You could take a look at 1477's drive from 2012 (and the one they used this year, also WCD but IFI rough-top) and 624's from this year (6 wheel Colson WCD) if you can. They used Colsons (not sure the specific ones) and a frame design nearly identical to the one you've posted, but with chains instead of belts.

My team is actually shares sponsors with 624, so I might have to take a trip down to their shop again and see what they think.

[JackS]

If you're insistent on one belt run per side, I think the simplest belt path is this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35911). You can see the real thing here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36832). I personally prefer this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/37318) system, where there is no need for idlers.

Some tips and tricks for this system:

1.Make sure your pulleys are large enough. We had 15t pulleys and 9mm belt in 2011 and the belts ratcheted pretty badly. Since then we have used 24t pulleys and 15mm belt with no problems.

2. I assume those windows are for internal belts. I'd recommend covering them with 1/16 lexan to prevent debris from getting inside. You can see how we did that if you look closely in the pictures above.

3. Think long and hard about how you are going to weld this. We have moved away from welding in recent years because it is faster for us to gusset. If you are going to weld this, I'd suggest using the belly pan and some gussets as a jig for the welder to keep everything square during welding and to make sure everything is assembled properly. The belly pan can be welded directly to the frame and the gussets can be removed at the end.

4. Also think long and hard about how you are going to do your bumper rail. You can weld them, and if you do, I again suggest you mount the pieces in place first using some 8-32s. Alternatively, you could use rivet nuts to mount all the pieces together like we did here (http://imgur.com/a/1hae8#110).

5. You need a way to retain your axles. We put a snap ring on the inside and we tap the ends of our axles and retain the wheels with a bolt and washer, like we did here (http://imgur.com/a/1hae8#121).

[Cash4587]

If you're insistent on one belt run per side, I think the simplest belt path is this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35911). You can see the real thing here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36832). I personally prefer this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/37318) system, where there is no need for idlers.

Some tips and tricks for this system:

1.Make sure your pulleys are large enough. We had 15t pulleys and 9mm belt in 2011 and the belts ratcheted pretty badly. Since then we have used 24t pulleys and 15mm belt with no problems.

2. I assume those windows are for internal belts. I'd recommend covering them with 1/16 lexan to prevent debris from getting inside. You can see how we did that if you look closely in the pictures above.

3. Think long and hard about how you are going to weld this. We have moved away from welding in recent years because it is faster for us to gusset. If you are going to weld this, I'd suggest using the belly pan and some gussets as a jig for the welder to keep everything square during welding and to make sure everything is assembled properly. The belly pan can be welded directly to the frame and the gussets can be removed at the end.

4. Also think long and hard about how you are going to do your bumper rail. You can weld them, and if you do, I again suggest you mount the pieces in place first using some 8-32s. Alternatively, you could use rivet nuts to mount all the pieces together like we did here (http://imgur.com/a/1hae8#110).

5. You need a way to retain your axles. We put a snap ring on the inside and we tap the ends of our axles and retain the wheels with a bolt and washer, like we did here (http://imgur.com/a/1hae8#121).

Thanks for all the info, this is really what I was looking for. My team is going to have a CADing session soon so I will bring up all these ideas.

[Clem1640]

Was weight/ease(ie. not having to make your own hubs and mountings) the only factor in using the HiGrip wheels this year?(as well as lack of a plexi surface like the bridge)

(As a huge fan of your swerve as well as a huge fan of Colsons, this was one of the questions I forgot to ask while taking a look at your swerve at Lehigh)

Decision factors (from most important to least) were:
1) We measured the friction coefficients of the HiGrip wheels (on carpet) and were favorably impressed.

2) The weight and cost of the HiGrips were in the direction we wanted to go with our swerve units.

3) Ease of mounting was tertiary consideration. That said, I've always been a big fan of easy when it doesn't sacrifice performance.

Mechanically, we never had a problem with driving the Colsons, but the same is true (so far) with the HiGrips. The HiGrips do wear faster.